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I’d say there were about 300 people in Morrisons this morning, and I counted about 10 not wearing masks.
It’s heartening to see most people are still looking out for each other, but the interesting thing about the 10 is how they are now deliberately identifying themselves as different - Independent free thinkers, more informed about masks and viruses (and probably vaccines) than the other 290 sheep like me in there.
I was watching them. Some looked shifty. Some looked defiant. I’m sure a lot of people were judging them. I know I was.
I have heard of some people being told by the unmasked that we don’t need to wear masks any more. I’m looking forward to somebody making a comment like that to me.
People without masks in supermarkets... on 21:29 - Jul 25 by Saintsforeverj
I'm not suggesting forced vaccination. I'm suggesting that there should be consequences for not agreeing to have one (e.g not being able to enter stadiums or places with big crowds). Doctors can't practise without having various vaccinations for example. My point is, why are Labour, 50 Tory MP's and others against saying that if you want to get in a stadium full of people, you need to be vaccinated, in the same way doctors have to or in the same way you lose your licence if you refuse to wear your seat belt. Or rightly so you can't enter certain countries without being jabbed. People ofcourse shouldn't be forced to have it, but they shouldn't be spreading the virus round should they?
[Post edited 25 Jul 2021 21:39]
I suppose the argument is that if you deny them access to public life, you are indirectly forcing them. But I hear what you are saying.
I think, contrary to what Jelly seems to believe, we do live in a country wear we value personal freedom very highly, so anything which might force people to do anything - particularly in the medical realm - is viewed with huge with great scepticism.
It gets very tricky. What would you say about offering the vaccine to 12-18 years old and then refusing entry to school to any children who weren't vaccinated? They are already nutters outside my childrens' school handing out anti-vax leaflets to kids.
People without masks in supermarkets... on 21:42 - Jul 25 by DorsetIan
I suppose the argument is that if you deny them access to public life, you are indirectly forcing them. But I hear what you are saying.
I think, contrary to what Jelly seems to believe, we do live in a country wear we value personal freedom very highly, so anything which might force people to do anything - particularly in the medical realm - is viewed with huge with great scepticism.
It gets very tricky. What would you say about offering the vaccine to 12-18 years old and then refusing entry to school to any children who weren't vaccinated? They are already nutters outside my childrens' school handing out anti-vax leaflets to kids.
With children, it's different I suppose in that you need parental consent anyway but adults in my view shouldn't be allowed to enter countries, stadiums, venues unvaccinated as they are putting people at risk by a choice of their own making. We do indirectly force people to do things through public safety such as not smoking inside (as it is dangerous to others), needing to be dbs checked before working with vulnerable people, wearing a helmet on a motorbike and many other examples. If a good number of people decided they won't get vaccinated, the world would collapse so their decision is quite an important one for public safety. They can refuse to have one sure, but they shouldn't be allowed to put other people at risk in my view.
People without masks in supermarkets... on 21:56 - Jul 25 by Saintsforeverj
With children, it's different I suppose in that you need parental consent anyway but adults in my view shouldn't be allowed to enter countries, stadiums, venues unvaccinated as they are putting people at risk by a choice of their own making. We do indirectly force people to do things through public safety such as not smoking inside (as it is dangerous to others), needing to be dbs checked before working with vulnerable people, wearing a helmet on a motorbike and many other examples. If a good number of people decided they won't get vaccinated, the world would collapse so their decision is quite an important one for public safety. They can refuse to have one sure, but they shouldn't be allowed to put other people at risk in my view.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2021 22:13]
I think a lot of people share your view. It's not unreasonable and I think we're probably heading in that sort of direction.
I have enjoyed the exchange. I like hearing different views on here.
People without masks in supermarkets... on 17:44 - Jul 25 by Jellybaby
I do understand Ian. Freedom works both ways. If you want to triple mask or wear a hazmat suit while shopping that is your choice and I won't look down my nose at you. Equally if I choose not to wear a mask, as a sign that we should not live in a state of fear forever more and to encourage others to break free from that bond of fear then that should be okay with you Maskateers.
You (along with many) clearly value safety over freedom and I am not advocating recklessness, but where do you stop with this? Are you selfish for driving a car - 27 thousand road deaths each year in the UK, not to mention the pollution, should we just not drive and stay inside our houses where we can not harm others?
If you really believe that the unmasked are all immoral and would not save drowning children, then the propaganda machine has fully worked on you, much as the anti Semitism propaganda worked in Nazi Germany.
Before you turn on your fellow man for wanting bodily autonomy, just remember the nauseating photos of the G7 summit, where the elites were all hobnobbing maskless, while the servants were all fully masked up, like some obnoxious scene from racist America, pre civil rights movement - a class divide. We both want the same thing I think - a return to normality, I'm not convinced that is true of the Elites
I'm with you fella, I won't be wearing one anymore. Was at Wembley 2 weeks ago amongst 200,000 people, none had masks, even some OB, haven't heard of anyone dying or seriously ill.
You've aimed your darts a bit high with the road deaths (I guessed 10,000 on my speed awareness course and was miles out, so i know), its around 1700 per year (5 a day) so a pretty similar chance of dying from Covid since April. Should I stop Driving? And what about them Plumbs driving alone in their car wearing a mask? ffs
Too many wet lettuce's about (and on here), get on with your life, you're only here for a visit ffs.
Ps, I was in hospital for 9 months with leukemia in 2013, so every days a bonus tbh and my immune will never be 100%, but i'll be out every day and going back to SMS and away games and hopefully Poland and Hungary in September. Won't be sat indoors all day worrying, that's for sure.
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People without masks in supermarkets... on 00:00 - Jul 26 with 1400 views
People without masks in supermarkets... on 23:09 - Jul 25 by hedgeend61
I'm with you fella, I won't be wearing one anymore. Was at Wembley 2 weeks ago amongst 200,000 people, none had masks, even some OB, haven't heard of anyone dying or seriously ill.
You've aimed your darts a bit high with the road deaths (I guessed 10,000 on my speed awareness course and was miles out, so i know), its around 1700 per year (5 a day) so a pretty similar chance of dying from Covid since April. Should I stop Driving? And what about them Plumbs driving alone in their car wearing a mask? ffs
Too many wet lettuce's about (and on here), get on with your life, you're only here for a visit ffs.
Ps, I was in hospital for 9 months with leukemia in 2013, so every days a bonus tbh and my immune will never be 100%, but i'll be out every day and going back to SMS and away games and hopefully Poland and Hungary in September. Won't be sat indoors all day worrying, that's for sure.
Breath of fresh air after all the BBC groupies on here who live for their 5.00 briefings.
Well done with getting on with your life after your long illness. Great attitude. Precious time is slipping away for all of us, we all need to make the most of every day and not be consumed with fear.
I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it.
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People without masks in supermarkets... on 08:41 - Jul 26 with 1307 views
As one of those plums seen driving with a mask on, let me explain- I just do it between visits to different shops a distance apart and it makes sure I don’t forgot to wear it at the next one. Wearing a mask is simple. Against civil liberties, nonsense. Just the same as using a handkerchief if you have to sneeze, good manners. Non wearers make me despair, just tiny minded fruitcakes. Or are you worried a mask might make you look foolish? Trust me you already do!
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People without masks in supermarkets... on 10:31 - Jul 26 with 1259 views
People without masks in supermarkets... on 00:00 - Jul 26 by Jellybaby
Breath of fresh air after all the BBC groupies on here who live for their 5.00 briefings.
Well done with getting on with your life after your long illness. Great attitude. Precious time is slipping away for all of us, we all need to make the most of every day and not be consumed with fear.
Mad Matty Le Tiss has got inside your head hasn't he!
"Playing Devil's Advocate since 15th January 2014"
People without masks in supermarkets... on 10:31 - Jul 26 by saints__fan__73
Mad Matty Le Tiss has got inside your head hasn't he!
It's been an interesting exchange. Quick question - why would all the double jabbed even be worried about the unvaccinated? By the reasoning, I've gathered from here, it would only spread to unvaccinated anyway right? I get the other argument about unvaccinated catching covid and putting strain on NHS etc. But thus q is more the general principle. Apols if this has been covered before somwhere and I've missed it.
People without masks in supermarkets... on 11:24 - Jul 26 by BuenosSaint
It's been an interesting exchange. Quick question - why would all the double jabbed even be worried about the unvaccinated? By the reasoning, I've gathered from here, it would only spread to unvaccinated anyway right? I get the other argument about unvaccinated catching covid and putting strain on NHS etc. But thus q is more the general principle. Apols if this has been covered before somwhere and I've missed it.
I know quite a few people who have caught it lately, a fair proportion of whom went to see England at wembley. Presumably those who didnt catch it were those who stayed out of the pubs
All of those who caught it had been double jabbed, so the vaccine isn't 100% against the Delta variety but it does mean the symptoms arent so bad.
We are in a situation that literally none of us ever thought we would be in and sometimes we have to have rules imposed.
Given the delta variant Im surprised that wearing a mask in the supermarket etc hasnt been made compulsory for the first month of the opening of the country.
I think it should also be compulsory on public transport until we have calmed down the recent increase(which in fairness it looks like is happening)
The vaccine seems to be working, i have no problem with people choosing not to have it, but if they choose to do that they have to expect restrictions on their lives in regards to travel and sporting events etc
Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime
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People without masks in supermarkets... on 11:49 - Jul 26 with 1198 views
People without masks in supermarkets... on 11:41 - Jul 26 by SaintNick
I know quite a few people who have caught it lately, a fair proportion of whom went to see England at wembley. Presumably those who didnt catch it were those who stayed out of the pubs
All of those who caught it had been double jabbed, so the vaccine isn't 100% against the Delta variety but it does mean the symptoms arent so bad.
We are in a situation that literally none of us ever thought we would be in and sometimes we have to have rules imposed.
Given the delta variant Im surprised that wearing a mask in the supermarket etc hasnt been made compulsory for the first month of the opening of the country.
I think it should also be compulsory on public transport until we have calmed down the recent increase(which in fairness it looks like is happening)
The vaccine seems to be working, i have no problem with people choosing not to have it, but if they choose to do that they have to expect restrictions on their lives in regards to travel and sporting events etc
Illingsworth in 'MLT should not be allowed to enter SMS' shocker!
"Playing Devil's Advocate since 15th January 2014"
People without masks in supermarkets... on 11:24 - Jul 26 by BuenosSaint
It's been an interesting exchange. Quick question - why would all the double jabbed even be worried about the unvaccinated? By the reasoning, I've gathered from here, it would only spread to unvaccinated anyway right? I get the other argument about unvaccinated catching covid and putting strain on NHS etc. But thus q is more the general principle. Apols if this has been covered before somwhere and I've missed it.
Two points. The vaccinated can still catch it, and noone under 18 has been vaccinated as far as I'm aware.
Members of both groups are unlikely to get severe symptons, require hospitalisation or die, but these things are all still possible.
Also the more a virus spreads, the greater the chance that new variants will arise.
For both reasons, there is still good reason to want to control the spread of the virus, and as I personally have no need to make a public display of my fearlessness, I'll keep wearing a mask in indoor public spaces.
People without masks in supermarkets... on 20:49 - Jul 25 by DorsetIan
Totalitarianism is a system in which every aspect of people's lives are controlled by the state. See North Korea.
Loss of freedom does not equal totalitarianism. In anything other than an anarchist system, individual freedoms are given up for the common good. Every single law is an infringement of my personal freedom.
Do you not believe in laws? Are you an anarchist?
I have no problem in the government taking advice from expert behavioural scientists. In a situation where public health messaging is so important, it is vital to understand how different policies and messages with drop with the public.
Please explain to me who is 'controlling' they SPI-B people who I think you say are hell bent on keeping us imprisoned behind our paper masks?
Meant to be going to Wales for a week next weekend with our friends and our 10 year olds but guess what ? Their 21 year old anti vax son has just come down with all the classic symptoms so needs one of those proper tests , so there goes our holiday potentially or we go alone.
Thanks kiddo.
( Yes I know he may of got it with a jab but isnt it 80% or so more effective ? )
People without masks in supermarkets... on 10:55 - Jul 27 by Berber
Great answer,
It's a great answer if you like communism, if you fancy a Chinese style credit system, if you like unelected technocrats running your country, if you like being told when you can see your family, when you can go for a walk, what country you can and can't visit, it's a great answer if you don't want to have control over what goes in or on to your own body, if you want to cross reference everything you do with a government checklist, it's a great answer if you want a "papers please" society.
Creeping totalitarianism is akin to the frog being slowly boiled alive, but hey apparently as they said in Hot Fuzz, it's for the greater good.
I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it.
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People without masks in supermarkets... on 17:45 - Jul 27 with 930 views
People without masks in supermarkets... on 11:24 - Jul 26 by BuenosSaint
It's been an interesting exchange. Quick question - why would all the double jabbed even be worried about the unvaccinated? By the reasoning, I've gathered from here, it would only spread to unvaccinated anyway right? I get the other argument about unvaccinated catching covid and putting strain on NHS etc. But thus q is more the general principle. Apols if this has been covered before somwhere and I've missed it.
I'm a leukaemia survivor. I've had my jabs but with my damaged immune system I most likely have lower antibody levels than average. At least I'm likely to have some - some leukaemia treatments leave you unable to produce antibodies. There are lots of people of people in this situation. I want to go to matches, but I can only do so if I can minimise my contact with unvaccinated people who could infect me with a substantial viral load. Vaccinated people who catch it can still transmit it, but the viral loads are much lower.
[Post edited 27 Jul 2021 17:45]
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People without masks in supermarkets... on 17:46 - Jul 27 with 928 views
People without masks in supermarkets... on 17:03 - Jul 27 by Jellybaby
It's a great answer if you like communism, if you fancy a Chinese style credit system, if you like unelected technocrats running your country, if you like being told when you can see your family, when you can go for a walk, what country you can and can't visit, it's a great answer if you don't want to have control over what goes in or on to your own body, if you want to cross reference everything you do with a government checklist, it's a great answer if you want a "papers please" society.
Creeping totalitarianism is akin to the frog being slowly boiled alive, but hey apparently as they said in Hot Fuzz, it's for the greater good.
You didn't answer the question about whether you are an anarchist and whether you believe in having laws.
You write as if you are, and as if you don't. Which is fine by the way. These days you don't come across many anarchists but its a consistent a political position.
As you've been quoting from Huxley and from Hot Fuzz, I'll send one back your way from Alexander Pope.
A little learning is a dangerous thing ; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring : There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers us again.
People without masks in supermarkets... on 17:03 - Jul 27 by Jellybaby
It's a great answer if you like communism, if you fancy a Chinese style credit system, if you like unelected technocrats running your country, if you like being told when you can see your family, when you can go for a walk, what country you can and can't visit, it's a great answer if you don't want to have control over what goes in or on to your own body, if you want to cross reference everything you do with a government checklist, it's a great answer if you want a "papers please" society.
Creeping totalitarianism is akin to the frog being slowly boiled alive, but hey apparently as they said in Hot Fuzz, it's for the greater good.
"A video circulating on social media shows Dr Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), saying “there’s no reason to be walking around with a mask.” Fauci’s remarks were made on March 8, 2020 and do not represent his current stance on face coverings nor the updated guidance issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)."
I don't think we can depend on split opinions from 15 months previous when the rate of knowledge about the subject has advanced so much and so quickly. Not to mention that his current opinion is the opposite of what was being put up as "evidence".
People without masks in supermarkets... on 17:46 - Jul 27 by DorsetIan
You didn't answer the question about whether you are an anarchist and whether you believe in having laws.
You write as if you are, and as if you don't. Which is fine by the way. These days you don't come across many anarchists but its a consistent a political position.
As you've been quoting from Huxley and from Hot Fuzz, I'll send one back your way from Alexander Pope.
A little learning is a dangerous thing ; Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring : There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers us again.
Ian, it does amuse me that anyone with a contrarian view to you, is asked whether they are an anarchist. However I will humour you with a reply. I am anything but an anarchist; laws that help a nation function are good and necessary, but government over reach leads to tyranny and cruelty as we have witnessed with old people dying alone in care homes unable to say goodbye to their loved ones for example.
A bit like a good ref allows the game to flow, so a government should allow the people as much freedom as possible. Lockdown fanatics appear to prefer an overly officious referee like Mike Dean! I voted Tory all my life as I believed them to be a libertarian party and yet like so many governments around the world, who appear to be working in lockstep, they have given up democracy in a flash.
Your level of trust in governments, big phama and Elites generally is either impressive or incredibly naive, others can decide.
Thanks for the Alexander Pope quote - a salutary reminder that the main stream media do not have the monopoly on truth.
I wholly disapprove of what you say and will defend to the death your right to say it.
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People without masks in supermarkets... on 20:39 - Jul 27 with 819 views
People without masks in supermarkets... on 19:30 - Jul 27 by Jellybaby
Ian, it does amuse me that anyone with a contrarian view to you, is asked whether they are an anarchist. However I will humour you with a reply. I am anything but an anarchist; laws that help a nation function are good and necessary, but government over reach leads to tyranny and cruelty as we have witnessed with old people dying alone in care homes unable to say goodbye to their loved ones for example.
A bit like a good ref allows the game to flow, so a government should allow the people as much freedom as possible. Lockdown fanatics appear to prefer an overly officious referee like Mike Dean! I voted Tory all my life as I believed them to be a libertarian party and yet like so many governments around the world, who appear to be working in lockstep, they have given up democracy in a flash.
Your level of trust in governments, big phama and Elites generally is either impressive or incredibly naive, others can decide.
Thanks for the Alexander Pope quote - a salutary reminder that the main stream media do not have the monopoly on truth.
This is actually a great response (apart from the voting Tory bit - no need for that ;-)
IMO anyway....
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People without masks in supermarkets... on 21:41 - Jul 27 with 779 views
People without masks in supermarkets... on 19:30 - Jul 27 by Jellybaby
Ian, it does amuse me that anyone with a contrarian view to you, is asked whether they are an anarchist. However I will humour you with a reply. I am anything but an anarchist; laws that help a nation function are good and necessary, but government over reach leads to tyranny and cruelty as we have witnessed with old people dying alone in care homes unable to say goodbye to their loved ones for example.
A bit like a good ref allows the game to flow, so a government should allow the people as much freedom as possible. Lockdown fanatics appear to prefer an overly officious referee like Mike Dean! I voted Tory all my life as I believed them to be a libertarian party and yet like so many governments around the world, who appear to be working in lockstep, they have given up democracy in a flash.
Your level of trust in governments, big phama and Elites generally is either impressive or incredibly naive, others can decide.
Thanks for the Alexander Pope quote - a salutary reminder that the main stream media do not have the monopoly on truth.
OK, so we agree on this: "laws that help a nation function are good and necessary"
And I see that you are not an anarchist.
So why spout nonsense about limitations on freedom being a road to totalitarianism?
You concede that laws (which are necessarily limits on freedom) which help a nation function are OK - and they are therefore presumably a long way from totalitarianism?
But when most sensible, reasonable people in the country take the view that lockdowns and facemasks are necessary for the country to control the virus, and therefore 'function', you think we are all at the beginning of the Long March.
There's a sensible argument to be had about what laws are necessary and we can disagree on where the line between personal freedom and public good should be drawn.
But when you start equating a slightly different point on the line to the beginning of totalitarianism you just demonstrate that you have absolutely no idea what totalitarianism is, and you perhaps need to read around the subject a bit more. The Whisperers by Orlando Figes might be a good start.
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