| Trust EGM update 11:50 - Apr 16 with 34226 views | electricblue |
We'd just like to provide an update to Trust members following our announcement earlier in the week that we intended to call for an EGM. We have delivered a letter to the club this morning where we have formally called for that EGM.
In the past 48 hours, we have been in contact with a number of shareholders, and we were delighted that we had a total of 54 unique shareholders backing our call for an EGM which equated to around 25% of the total shareholding.
A massive thank you to all supporters for their backing over this. We will update you once we have a date for the meeting.
I wonder that out of the other 75% of shareholders with also vote for an EGM..
With what the yanks said about the club i think they just might..
[Post edited 16 Apr 2021 11:59]
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| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Trust EGM update on 22:54 - Apr 30 with 2420 views | 49thseason |
| Trust EGM update on 21:57 - Apr 30 by 442Dale |
This really isn’t very hard.
Looking forward to that improved communication. |
There is little point in improving the comms. if they are going to obfuscate and lie to us.
I think the delay in starting season ticket sales is worrying as was the assertion that its what other clubs are doing too.. My antennae are twitching, and not in a good way. |  | | |
| Trust EGM update on 22:58 - Apr 30 with 2412 views | D_Alien |
| Trust EGM update on 22:25 - Apr 30 by judd |
I feel your pain, but I would hope that those holding a decent number of shares will read threads such as this, having watched the shameless patronising lecture on the Companies Act from a man whose interpretation of the Competition Act contributed to multi-millions in fines, and that for someone who attends EFL meetings on a weekly basis simply has no handle on what the industry is actually doing with regards 21/22 season tickets.
I hope that this "interview" has not been sanctioned by the board. It's simply dreadful. |
I can't see how it'll have failed to be sanctioned by the board, which is where it looks like we stand right now
Days and weeks have elapsed since the Trust call for an EGM, following upon the attempt by CD to drum up support for a challenge to the current board
That time will not have been spent without a very calculated review of shareholdings
Where we stand as commentators isn't about the niceties of whether he's "confident" or "arrogant" but whether we have any leverage other than our purchase of season cards
I think it was Sandyman who made the call about the board using any veto of season cards as a ready-made excuse to take whatever actions they see fit |  |
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| Trust EGM update on 22:58 - Apr 30 with 2405 views | 49thseason |
| Trust EGM update on 22:54 - Apr 30 by 49thseason |
There is little point in improving the comms. if they are going to obfuscate and lie to us.
I think the delay in starting season ticket sales is worrying as was the assertion that its what other clubs are doing too.. My antennae are twitching, and not in a good way. |
Oh and can someone download a copy of "that interview" in case it suddenly disappears? | | | |
| Trust EGM update on 23:46 - Apr 30 with 2317 views | judd |
| Trust EGM update on 22:58 - Apr 30 by D_Alien |
I can't see how it'll have failed to be sanctioned by the board, which is where it looks like we stand right now
Days and weeks have elapsed since the Trust call for an EGM, following upon the attempt by CD to drum up support for a challenge to the current board
That time will not have been spent without a very calculated review of shareholdings
Where we stand as commentators isn't about the niceties of whether he's "confident" or "arrogant" but whether we have any leverage other than our purchase of season cards
I think it was Sandyman who made the call about the board using any veto of season cards as a ready-made excuse to take whatever actions they see fit |
32 of 72 EFL clubs appear to have announced clear 21/22 season ticket policy.
Directors should be demanding to know why the CE does not know what the industry is doing and why he has gone public and paint a picture that probably no one is doing anything.
Surely they have not sanctioned the contents of this "interview"?
Unless they have 101 excuses. |  |
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| Trust EGM update on 00:52 - May 1 with 2251 views | 49thseason |
| Trust EGM update on 23:46 - Apr 30 by judd |
32 of 72 EFL clubs appear to have announced clear 21/22 season ticket policy.
Directors should be demanding to know why the CE does not know what the industry is doing and why he has gone public and paint a picture that probably no one is doing anything.
Surely they have not sanctioned the contents of this "interview"?
Unless they have 101 excuses. |
There is more to this than meets the eye. We know from the forum that the Finance director intimated that getting to the end of the season might be a problem. We also know that there is Dawson money and maybe other monies plus ticket sales money due later in the year. I am no expert on administration, I just wonder why Denehurst Park Ltd still exists with the current directors as its board. Is there an insolvency expert anywhere on this forum? Is there a cunning plan in motion? Let me be clear its probably just my overactive imagination but it does no harm to be very suspicious. | | | |
| Trust EGM update on 01:32 - May 1 with 2231 views | James1980 |
| Trust EGM update on 00:52 - May 1 by 49thseason |
There is more to this than meets the eye. We know from the forum that the Finance director intimated that getting to the end of the season might be a problem. We also know that there is Dawson money and maybe other monies plus ticket sales money due later in the year. I am no expert on administration, I just wonder why Denehurst Park Ltd still exists with the current directors as its board. Is there an insolvency expert anywhere on this forum? Is there a cunning plan in motion? Let me be clear its probably just my overactive imagination but it does no harm to be very suspicious. |
Do you think it would help if Altman and Marcelli revealed what they specifically meant by internal issues? |  |
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| Trust EGM update on 05:49 - May 1 with 2179 views | D_Alien |
| Trust EGM update on 23:46 - Apr 30 by judd |
32 of 72 EFL clubs appear to have announced clear 21/22 season ticket policy.
Directors should be demanding to know why the CE does not know what the industry is doing and why he has gone public and paint a picture that probably no one is doing anything.
Surely they have not sanctioned the contents of this "interview"?
Unless they have 101 excuses. |
"Directors should be demanding to know..."
Of course they should. My point is, they're not, and they haven't been on the case of all the other faux pas he's committed over an extended period of time
The board meeting of 19 April has been and gone with no indication that our Interim Chairman or any of DB's fellow directors have done anything but sanction his actions and pronouncements - perhaps even abetted them
The people who could do something are the other major individual shareholders , but since CD isn't able to rally their support, we're lacking someone else who might; but still, Imo a concerted effort to try to effect a change of mind, or heart, wouldn't go amiss
Can anyone, or any group, be found who they might listen to? | |
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| Trust EGM update on 09:23 - May 1 with 1993 views | Dalenet |
| Trust EGM update on 23:46 - Apr 30 by judd |
32 of 72 EFL clubs appear to have announced clear 21/22 season ticket policy.
Directors should be demanding to know why the CE does not know what the industry is doing and why he has gone public and paint a picture that probably no one is doing anything.
Surely they have not sanctioned the contents of this "interview"?
Unless they have 101 excuses. |
I will defend him on the Season Tickets announcements. Yes many clubs have announced a policy, which in the main includes a price freeze, but haven't announced that they are starting to sell the tickets. That's because they can't guarantee you your seat as yet, as he described. Hats off to Accy though - max price £179 for League One footie. And to Ipswich who will discount your frozen price ticket by the amount you over paid this season (i.e. the amount you paid beyond the true cost of iFollow)
I am not sure I want Dale to announce a policy to freeze ticket prices. Assuming we go down, would a prize freeze be welcomed or an insult? And are we looking to provide a partial discount to those that paid in full last year? That would also depend on our whether we are receiving League One or League Two hand outs. So for me he would be slaughtered if he'd announced anything ahead of June.
Maybe the Trust has a point of view on this approach as it is quite an important part of how fans feel. | | | |
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| Trust EGM update on 09:34 - May 1 with 1970 views | James1980 |
| Trust EGM update on 09:23 - May 1 by Dalenet |
I will defend him on the Season Tickets announcements. Yes many clubs have announced a policy, which in the main includes a price freeze, but haven't announced that they are starting to sell the tickets. That's because they can't guarantee you your seat as yet, as he described. Hats off to Accy though - max price £179 for League One footie. And to Ipswich who will discount your frozen price ticket by the amount you over paid this season (i.e. the amount you paid beyond the true cost of iFollow)
I am not sure I want Dale to announce a policy to freeze ticket prices. Assuming we go down, would a prize freeze be welcomed or an insult? And are we looking to provide a partial discount to those that paid in full last year? That would also depend on our whether we are receiving League One or League Two hand outs. So for me he would be slaughtered if he'd announced anything ahead of June.
Maybe the Trust has a point of view on this approach as it is quite an important part of how fans feel. |
Problem is he has given the impression that many other clubs haven't made any decision on season tickets. When in fact they have which makes him look mendacious and or incompetent. Surely he knew this interview would come under scrutiny. How long did it take Judd to find out the information he did re other clubs season ticket plans? One of the new staff could have done some research into what other clubs are doing regards season tickets. | |
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| Trust EGM update on 09:52 - May 1 with 1941 views | dawlishdale |
| Trust EGM update on 09:23 - May 1 by Dalenet |
I will defend him on the Season Tickets announcements. Yes many clubs have announced a policy, which in the main includes a price freeze, but haven't announced that they are starting to sell the tickets. That's because they can't guarantee you your seat as yet, as he described. Hats off to Accy though - max price £179 for League One footie. And to Ipswich who will discount your frozen price ticket by the amount you over paid this season (i.e. the amount you paid beyond the true cost of iFollow)
I am not sure I want Dale to announce a policy to freeze ticket prices. Assuming we go down, would a prize freeze be welcomed or an insult? And are we looking to provide a partial discount to those that paid in full last year? That would also depend on our whether we are receiving League One or League Two hand outs. So for me he would be slaughtered if he'd announced anything ahead of June.
Maybe the Trust has a point of view on this approach as it is quite an important part of how fans feel. |
I'm afraid the big picture for me (and many many more) is that I will not buy a season ticket if Bottomley is still at the club. The league that we play in is very much secondary... I've watched us in the fourth tier more than I've watched us in the third, so my decision is not based on that.
He is ruining the whole structure of what was (until the day he became a Director) a friendly, family orientated club, respected by many others throughout the land. Now; those clubs who have dealings with him just laugh, whilst the supporters (or those with eyes open) grow increasingly frustrated at his blunders, and the remaining staff left at the club despair of him.
The other Directors should be fully aware that the club will lose out financially if they don't remove him. The EGM was the start of the process...in that it is very unlikely he would be re-elected as a Director when he stands for re-election, which must now be overdue. Then, it is an easy task to remove him from his position as CEO, with minimum monies payable.
I find it most inflammatory that Bottomley has used legal loopholes (and dubious ones as well) to try to avoid an EGM. It's bordering on cowardice.
I can only think that there is something going on in the background that he thinks will safeguard his overpaid job....but there is nothing that will make me change my mind. The Board might somehow have drummed up enough support to remain in situ, (which I find staggeringly bad room reading by shareholders) but they will be remembered as the ones who left Bottomley in charge whilst the club sank. | | | |
| Trust EGM update on 10:08 - May 1 with 1916 views | BigKindo |
A well rehearsed Oscar winning performance perhaps for 'Best Script based on hutzpah'. So having watched it twice who wrote the questions and who asked the questions? Quite clearly the interviewer is not independent, a club employee. Questions are asked beginning 'we' and 'our'. So that has achieved total control and manipulation of the interview. When is the man going to wake up and realise that matters at the Dale will return to some normality if he leaves the club, as appears to be the passionate wish of the majority on this message board. Perhaps he realises this and is exercising control freakery to preserve his status without reference to other Directors. Would you give this man a job? The toy trades loss is definitely not Dale's gain.
So the word administration I believe by a poster has been mentioned So while you, David Bottomley, are throwing out comments on Company Law here is a little more for you to chew over, perhaps on a wasp.
"Insolvent trading
An insolvent company is a company with cash flow problems and books that are in arrears. This is in accordance with the Insolvency Act of 1986. Now, if a company is insolvent but the directors believe this to be only temporary and they carry on trading with the hope of making the company profitable again, this is known as insolvent trading. Insolvency can be a temporary state especially if the company is owed an amount of money that exceeds the amount they owe to their creditors. So trading whilst insolvent is not necessarily illegal if the directors believe they will have the means to pay their creditors in a reasonable amount of time.
Wrongful trading
Wrongful trading however, is a serious offence which is punishable by law. Wrongful trading differs from insolvent trading in that the directors know that their company is insolvent, they know it will not be a temporary state and they have no way to pay the debts they owe their creditors. Wrongful trading could also be proven if the directors wilfully allow the amount of debt to increase whilst they are trading. There are statutory rules and regulations that deem wrongful trading unlawful.
The legal implications of wrongful trading
When a company enters into liquidation (which is a common occurrence for companies that are insolvent) a liquidator will be appointed who must conduct an investigation into the company. If, during the nature of this investigation they find signs of wrongful trading, the directors of the company will be prosecuted. Fines can be handed out or even prison sentences. Directors can also be held personally responsible for debts sustained during wrongful trading and could be banned from directing a limited company for anywhere up to 15 years."
Dale's next set of accounts will make interesting reading. Maybe you should consider launching an issue of new shares but without voting rights. as is common practice in family controlled businesses after all we are, or perhaps are no more ' the Family Dale' [Post edited 1 May 2021 11:31]
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| Trust EGM update on 10:11 - May 1 with 1906 views | James1980 |
| Trust EGM update on 09:52 - May 1 by dawlishdale |
I'm afraid the big picture for me (and many many more) is that I will not buy a season ticket if Bottomley is still at the club. The league that we play in is very much secondary... I've watched us in the fourth tier more than I've watched us in the third, so my decision is not based on that.
He is ruining the whole structure of what was (until the day he became a Director) a friendly, family orientated club, respected by many others throughout the land. Now; those clubs who have dealings with him just laugh, whilst the supporters (or those with eyes open) grow increasingly frustrated at his blunders, and the remaining staff left at the club despair of him.
The other Directors should be fully aware that the club will lose out financially if they don't remove him. The EGM was the start of the process...in that it is very unlikely he would be re-elected as a Director when he stands for re-election, which must now be overdue. Then, it is an easy task to remove him from his position as CEO, with minimum monies payable.
I find it most inflammatory that Bottomley has used legal loopholes (and dubious ones as well) to try to avoid an EGM. It's bordering on cowardice.
I can only think that there is something going on in the background that he thinks will safeguard his overpaid job....but there is nothing that will make me change my mind. The Board might somehow have drummed up enough support to remain in situ, (which I find staggeringly bad room reading by shareholders) but they will be remembered as the ones who left Bottomley in charge whilst the club sank. |
But as was mentioned in the recent podcast. Why are the rest of the board/major shareholders letting him get away with, 'ruining the club'. | |
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| Trust EGM update on 10:24 - May 1 with 1881 views | 442Dale |
Worth pointing out again: when a statement comes from the ‘Board of Directors’, it should be treated as such.
On their heads be it. Something to think about when going to sleep at night. |  |
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| Trust EGM update on 10:27 - May 1 with 1871 views | Sandyman |
| Trust EGM update on 10:11 - May 1 by James1980 |
But as was mentioned in the recent podcast. Why are the rest of the board/major shareholders letting him get away with, 'ruining the club'. |
I posted a link earlier this morning which may explain the situation. Narcissists are notoriously difficult to deal with, live in a world of self-importance, refuse to accept anyone could disagree with them or that they ever could be wrong, and use emotional blackmail (temper tantrums, tears etc) to get their way. The evidence grows. Such behaviour is damaging and needs help / addressing. [Post edited 1 May 2021 10:37]
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| Trust EGM update on 11:07 - May 1 with 1785 views | 49thseason |
| Trust EGM update on 10:11 - May 1 by James1980 |
But as was mentioned in the recent podcast. Why are the rest of the board/major shareholders letting him get away with, 'ruining the club'. |
There are only 4 Directors
Pockney I believe has a full time job, Kelly is reportedly unwell, Rawlinson doesnt seem to know much about what is going on around him and Bottomley who, between his job as CEO and his Directorship, has virtually total control. They only seem to have monthly meetings so oversight is non-existant compared to a proper company where the Directors are hands-on daily and working in the business. This is effectively a lifestyle company as far as the current Board is concerned, they have no control over the day to day machinations and only pick up on the CEO's extravagances and flights of fancy when the shit hits the fans. | | | |
| Trust EGM update on 11:41 - May 1 with 1718 views | BigKindo |
| Trust EGM update on 10:27 - May 1 by Sandyman |
I posted a link earlier this morning which may explain the situation. Narcissists are notoriously difficult to deal with, live in a world of self-importance, refuse to accept anyone could disagree with them or that they ever could be wrong, and use emotional blackmail (temper tantrums, tears etc) to get their way. The evidence grows. Such behaviour is damaging and needs help / addressing. [Post edited 1 May 2021 10:37]
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I honestly believe that we are witnessing the antics of a control freak, the thoughts in his mind and actions being that of a hero but in actual fact being that of Nero.
"I'm not really a control freak BUT ... can I show you the right way to do that."
Perhaps the Speakmans can help with a diagnosis. | | | |
| Trust EGM update on 12:21 - May 1 with 1646 views | Sandyman |
| Trust EGM update on 11:41 - May 1 by BigKindo |
I honestly believe that we are witnessing the antics of a control freak, the thoughts in his mind and actions being that of a hero but in actual fact being that of Nero.
"I'm not really a control freak BUT ... can I show you the right way to do that."
Perhaps the Speakmans can help with a diagnosis. |
Not the first time concerns have been raised...
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/rochdale/news/54615/mark-hodkinson-inside | | | |
| Trust EGM update on 12:32 - May 1 with 1601 views | 49thseason |
| Trust EGM update on 01:32 - May 1 by James1980 |
Do you think it would help if Altman and Marcelli revealed what they specifically meant by internal issues? |
Probably, they obviously got a whiff of something they didnt like. Maybe they felt the urgency of trying to get them on board pointed to something fishy. | | | |
| Trust EGM update on 13:05 - May 1 with 1547 views | SuddenLad |
| Trust EGM update on 12:32 - May 1 by 49thseason |
Probably, they obviously got a whiff of something they didnt like. Maybe they felt the urgency of trying to get them on board pointed to something fishy. |
Or, as reported - 'ongoing Boardroom issues' caused them to step back. We'll likely never know the full story, but there will surely be less interest in us as a League Two club than there is/would be as a League One club.
It wouldn't surprise me to see the Americans off-load their shares now, as things at the club go from bad to worse. Depending who it is, the future recipient(s) of the shares could mean a pivotal moment for the club, when the time comes.
Will someone increase their shareholding or will they end up in new hands?
I didn't expect this season to collapse the way it has on the field, though I didn't envisage us knocking on the door of the play-offs either.
Add in to the equation the utter feckin shambles created by the incompetent, overpaid (+30%) clown(s) who make the critical decisions, then we have what comfortably - and by some margin - becomes the worst and most embarrassing season I have experienced in many years - and that isn't even taking into account the COVID-19 restrictions that have affected us all.
I genuinely feel sorry for some of the players in all this. I can't believe that all the off-field tripe hasn't filtered its' way into the dressing room in some way or another, no matter how much they try to ignore it, or the staff try to shield them from it.
We have the nucleus of a very decent team within that squad of players, including some very good young players. Transfers apart, (Baah for example), I fear it will now be broken up and thrown away simply because people effectively 'fiddled, while Rome burned' as BigKindo alluded to.
If the TellyTubbies upstairs want to do something positive, they should start by pushing the boat out to secure the services of the key players, rather than let them walk away. If (when) we are relegated, we need a squad capable of making a serious and realistic attempt at getting back here. Not lip-service, nor more unnecessary expensive off-field appointments.
This is Rochdale Association FOOTBALL Club. The clue is in the title. The priority is on the field. It's not a vehicle to enable people to build empires based on a sense of self-importance and networking with 'Z' list non-entities.
Concentrate on what matters, get the priorities right and let's get back on track. This season has gone. Let's be ready for the next. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Trust EGM update on 13:09 - May 1 with 1540 views | James1980 |
| Trust EGM update on 12:32 - May 1 by 49thseason |
Probably, they obviously got a whiff of something they didnt like. Maybe they felt the urgency of trying to get them on board pointed to something fishy. |
I know the club wouldn't get the money but perhaps the trust could raise the money to buy out their shares. | |
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| Trust EGM update on 13:15 - May 1 with 1508 views | D_Alien |
| Trust EGM update on 13:05 - May 1 by SuddenLad |
Or, as reported - 'ongoing Boardroom issues' caused them to step back. We'll likely never know the full story, but there will surely be less interest in us as a League Two club than there is/would be as a League One club.
It wouldn't surprise me to see the Americans off-load their shares now, as things at the club go from bad to worse. Depending who it is, the future recipient(s) of the shares could mean a pivotal moment for the club, when the time comes.
Will someone increase their shareholding or will they end up in new hands?
I didn't expect this season to collapse the way it has on the field, though I didn't envisage us knocking on the door of the play-offs either.
Add in to the equation the utter feckin shambles created by the incompetent, overpaid (+30%) clown(s) who make the critical decisions, then we have what comfortably - and by some margin - becomes the worst and most embarrassing season I have experienced in many years - and that isn't even taking into account the COVID-19 restrictions that have affected us all.
I genuinely feel sorry for some of the players in all this. I can't believe that all the off-field tripe hasn't filtered its' way into the dressing room in some way or another, no matter how much they try to ignore it, or the staff try to shield them from it.
We have the nucleus of a very decent team within that squad of players, including some very good young players. Transfers apart, (Baah for example), I fear it will now be broken up and thrown away simply because people effectively 'fiddled, while Rome burned' as BigKindo alluded to.
If the TellyTubbies upstairs want to do something positive, they should start by pushing the boat out to secure the services of the key players, rather than let them walk away. If (when) we are relegated, we need a squad capable of making a serious and realistic attempt at getting back here. Not lip-service, nor more unnecessary expensive off-field appointments.
This is Rochdale Association FOOTBALL Club. The clue is in the title. The priority is on the field. It's not a vehicle to enable people to build empires based on a sense of self-importance and networking with 'Z' list non-entities.
Concentrate on what matters, get the priorities right and let's get back on track. This season has gone. Let's be ready for the next. |
"The writing was on the wall as soon as last season finished, when players were ditched and the playing budget for this season was decided." [4 days ago]
"We have the nucleus of a very decent team within that squad of players, including some very good young players." [Just now]
Which is it?
[Post edited 1 May 2021 13:17]
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| Trust EGM update on 13:51 - May 1 with 1406 views | SuddenLad |
| Trust EGM update on 13:15 - May 1 by D_Alien |
"The writing was on the wall as soon as last season finished, when players were ditched and the playing budget for this season was decided." [4 days ago]
"We have the nucleus of a very decent team within that squad of players, including some very good young players." [Just now]
Which is it?
[Post edited 1 May 2021 13:17]
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Both. One applies 12 months ago, the other applies today. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Trust EGM update on 14:00 - May 1 with 1367 views | 442Dale |
| Trust EGM update on 13:51 - May 1 by SuddenLad |
Both. One applies 12 months ago, the other applies today. |
Except, off the pitch issues aside, if we are relegated it was more than avoidable with the resources and budget we do have. The two are mutually exclusive. | |
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| Trust EGM update on 14:10 - May 1 with 1808 views | TVOS1907 |
| Trust EGM update on 13:51 - May 1 by SuddenLad |
Both. One applies 12 months ago, the other applies today. |
But "the playing budget that was decided last summer" has created "the nucleus of a very decent team", so why are we where we are? |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Trust EGM update on 14:53 - May 1 with 1632 views | D_Alien |
| Trust EGM update on 13:51 - May 1 by SuddenLad |
Both. One applies 12 months ago, the other applies today. |
Oh?
How about "I didn't expect this season to collapse the way it has on the field" then?
[Today, about the last twelve months...] [Post edited 1 May 2021 14:54]
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