| Birch’s programme notes 12:09 - Dec 29 with 28916 views | marchamjack |
Can’t do the linky thing on my phone...thanks in advance to whoever puts them up...if anyone is still in any doubt about Trev being a puppet of the Yanks, have a read 😠|  |
| Oh,..Dave, what's occuring? |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 13:09 - Dec 30 with 1942 views | thornabyswan |
| Birch’s programme notes on 11:29 - Dec 30 by theloneranger |
The main thing will be, is that they have a va!uable piece of land to sell off in Landore. |
Good job they didnt get their grubby hands on the stadium. |  |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 13:21 - Dec 30 with 1927 views | QJumpingJack |
One would expect if the academy is to be closed/land sold then this would have to be a agreed and signed off at a board meeting with the Trust being part of the decision process? | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 13:26 - Dec 30 with 1907 views | dobjack2 |
| Birch’s programme notes on 12:52 - Dec 30 by jasper_T |
Joe Rodon and Connor Roberts were both professionals here before we were Cat 1. Connor had played a full season at Yeovil by that point iirc.
Jordon Garrick was playing non-league, no reason we couldn't still bring him in. Financial impediments to recruitment already exist independent of status, we can't spent six--figure fees on Scotsmen like we did before.
Our recruitment saw a number of talented local players forced out of the club, who may well have done a job for us had we not been in the PL at the time (Josh Sheehan, Lewis Thomas, Liam Shephard). |
It’s about balancing the risks and rewards in relation to the division we are in.
The risk with dropping a category is that we lose our best youngsters to a category 1 academy, even more likely if Cardiff develop theirs to category 1 status. Thus losing players for our first team and for the top players transfer fees. That would leave us relying on smart recruitment for refreshing the squad. Something we have not been very good at. The reward is saving money.
The other side of the coin is the risk of spending money on the academy and not having players breaking into the first team, the reward is developing players to play our way (if it ever returns) with occasional sales. Not having to rely so heavily on smart recruitment.
Agreed that us poaching academy players from elsewhere won’t happen but unless we can resurrect smart recruitment, there are players out there but overhauling recruitment is not a quick fix, my view is to keep academy 1 status for as long as it is within our financial means. The risk I see is that the quality of the team will drop as will the division we will be playing in.
However I don’t watch the youngsters so a key element will be how many are likely to breakthrough in the next couple of seasons. | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 13:28 - Dec 30 with 1905 views | Badlands |
Open question.
Would you take relegation to League 1 but keep the academy?
Both Southampton and Leicester invested in their academies but dropped into League 1 before using their academy product to climb back into the Premier League. |  |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 13:37 - Dec 30 with 1895 views | SwanDownUnder |
| Birch’s programme notes on 10:57 - Dec 30 by Uxbridge |
Not least one where we have £20m less each year as parachute payments reduce to nowt the season after next. As anyone who reads the Trust monthy board minutes (very popular I'm sure), cashflow has historically been the area of most interest and concern.
Not that there's any evidence of money being syphoned off, although usual caveats apply regarding levels of visibility and ability to act against it. We have absentee owners in essence, which isn't good in some ways, but less bad in others. In that scenario, self-sufficiency is imperative. |
glad you changed your mind, you set us back 2 years | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 13:49 - Dec 30 with 1862 views | Swanjaxs |
| Birch’s programme notes on 13:21 - Dec 30 by QJumpingJack |
One would expect if the academy is to be closed/land sold then this would have to be a agreed and signed off at a board meeting with the Trust being part of the decision process? |
Since when have the Americans involved the Trust in any of thier decision making? |  |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 13:51 - Dec 30 with 1867 views | IAN05 |
| Birch’s programme notes on 11:29 - Dec 30 by theloneranger |
The main thing will be, is that they have a va!uable piece of land to sell off in Landore. |
How much is the land worth though ? I’m not convinced it’ll be as much as people would like | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 13:53 - Dec 30 with 1860 views | IAN05 |
| Birch’s programme notes on 11:34 - Dec 30 by Uxbridge |
I shall have a word 👠|
There are still some sad ones like me out there who read them I’m afraid 😂 | | | |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 14:05 - Dec 30 with 1834 views | Uxbridge |
| Birch’s programme notes on 13:53 - Dec 30 by IAN05 |
There are still some sad ones like me out there who read them I’m afraid 😂 |
I'm glad someone does! As they were distributed internally I assumed they'd been published. Sorry about that, we'll get that sorted. |  |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 14:09 - Dec 30 with 1824 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Birch’s programme notes on 13:28 - Dec 30 by Badlands |
Open question.
Would you take relegation to League 1 but keep the academy?
Both Southampton and Leicester invested in their academies but dropped into League 1 before using their academy product to climb back into the Premier League. |
Yes definitely.
We’re most likely on the slope towards that anyway. |  | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 15:08 - Dec 30 with 1776 views | whiterock |
| Birch’s programme notes on 13:51 - Dec 30 by IAN05 |
How much is the land worth though ? I’m not convinced it’ll be as much as people would like |
I don't think the land is worth anything, the council signed a 100 year lease over to the Swans on the proviso that it is only used for sport so the land is not for sale.
What could happen is that its mothballed so there are no running costs or more than possible is that the University could take control of Landore for X number of years where they pay the running costs, the Academy could then up sticks and go to Fairwood where there is ample room, down grading to Cat 2 wouldn't be the end of the world and we could still produce players.These measures could potentially save the club £2-£3m a season. Category One with all the facilities costs the club near £5m, probably a little rich if we don't get back up to the Premier League. | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 16:27 - Dec 30 with 1710 views | Blue_Blood |
| Birch’s programme notes on 13:26 - Dec 30 by dobjack2 |
It’s about balancing the risks and rewards in relation to the division we are in.
The risk with dropping a category is that we lose our best youngsters to a category 1 academy, even more likely if Cardiff develop theirs to category 1 status. Thus losing players for our first team and for the top players transfer fees. That would leave us relying on smart recruitment for refreshing the squad. Something we have not been very good at. The reward is saving money.
The other side of the coin is the risk of spending money on the academy and not having players breaking into the first team, the reward is developing players to play our way (if it ever returns) with occasional sales. Not having to rely so heavily on smart recruitment.
Agreed that us poaching academy players from elsewhere won’t happen but unless we can resurrect smart recruitment, there are players out there but overhauling recruitment is not a quick fix, my view is to keep academy 1 status for as long as it is within our financial means. The risk I see is that the quality of the team will drop as will the division we will be playing in.
However I don’t watch the youngsters so a key element will be how many are likely to breakthrough in the next couple of seasons. |
Good post but I also feel having a category 1 academy is more important to you (and Cardiff) due to our geographical location. As always in these discussions somewhere along the line someone will inevitably bring up the fact that Brentford scrapped their academy and they are still unearthing players.
I feel there are two points to counter the Brentford argument regarding geographical location.
1) Brentford are situated in West London and though they were very good at identifying and developing players from a very young age these players were being poached regularly by the top clubs. You are less likely to face this situation as this would often mean uprooting the whole family to move to London or up North etc.
2) You wouldn't have the same pulling power in attracting players that have been released by clubs due to the fact that you're 3-4 hours away from London, Birmingham etc.
Neath mentioned in his post that the owners will want to make the club as attractive as possible to potential buyers and for me as an outsider, the only thing that would be attractive to any prospective investors would be that you have a cat 1 academy that is functional and making a profit and producing assets.
The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to think that the facilities at Landore and Fairwood were vanity projects.
The ideal would have been to have one bigger site that touches the m4 (preferably as far East as possible) then it would reduce a lot of players daily commute (who live in the Vale etc) and would also give you greater pull in attracting better kids from Cardiff, RCT, Newport etc.
Cat 1 doesn't only give you better chance of attracting and holding on to the players you've got but should in theory attract better coaches, more time coaching the kids, better facilities, better fixture programme and other things which should produce better quality players to be prepared for first team football. | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 16:58 - Dec 30 with 1662 views | jack247 |
| Birch’s programme notes on 12:52 - Dec 30 by jasper_T |
Joe Rodon and Connor Roberts were both professionals here before we were Cat 1. Connor had played a full season at Yeovil by that point iirc.
Jordon Garrick was playing non-league, no reason we couldn't still bring him in. Financial impediments to recruitment already exist independent of status, we can't spent six--figure fees on Scotsmen like we did before.
Our recruitment saw a number of talented local players forced out of the club, who may well have done a job for us had we not been in the PL at the time (Josh Sheehan, Lewis Thomas, Liam Shephard). |
Those three play in league two. Are we really better with the next Sheehans and Shepherds than James’ and McBurnies? | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:01 - Dec 30 with 1655 views | jack247 |
| Birch’s programme notes on 13:28 - Dec 30 by Badlands |
Open question.
Would you take relegation to League 1 but keep the academy?
Both Southampton and Leicester invested in their academies but dropped into League 1 before using their academy product to climb back into the Premier League. |
Yes.
On the proviso that when we sold players for decent coin, we reinvested it back into the academy and cheaper first team replacements, like Southampton did. If it was just going to be a production line of players that were sold without reasonable reinvestment, then no. | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:06 - Dec 30 with 1636 views | SwanDownUnder |
| Birch’s programme notes on 14:09 - Dec 30 by 34dfgdf54 |
Yes definitely.
We’re most likely on the slope towards that anyway. |
you think we could run a cat 1 academy in league 1? oh dear. | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:20 - Dec 30 with 1606 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:06 - Dec 30 by SwanDownUnder |
you think we could run a cat 1 academy in league 1? oh dear. |
That wasn’t the question though was it? Or do you struggle a bit? | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:27 - Dec 30 with 1574 views | Thornburyswan |
| Birch’s programme notes on 16:27 - Dec 30 by Blue_Blood |
Good post but I also feel having a category 1 academy is more important to you (and Cardiff) due to our geographical location. As always in these discussions somewhere along the line someone will inevitably bring up the fact that Brentford scrapped their academy and they are still unearthing players.
I feel there are two points to counter the Brentford argument regarding geographical location.
1) Brentford are situated in West London and though they were very good at identifying and developing players from a very young age these players were being poached regularly by the top clubs. You are less likely to face this situation as this would often mean uprooting the whole family to move to London or up North etc.
2) You wouldn't have the same pulling power in attracting players that have been released by clubs due to the fact that you're 3-4 hours away from London, Birmingham etc.
Neath mentioned in his post that the owners will want to make the club as attractive as possible to potential buyers and for me as an outsider, the only thing that would be attractive to any prospective investors would be that you have a cat 1 academy that is functional and making a profit and producing assets.
The more I think about it the more I'm inclined to think that the facilities at Landore and Fairwood were vanity projects.
The ideal would have been to have one bigger site that touches the m4 (preferably as far East as possible) then it would reduce a lot of players daily commute (who live in the Vale etc) and would also give you greater pull in attracting better kids from Cardiff, RCT, Newport etc.
Cat 1 doesn't only give you better chance of attracting and holding on to the players you've got but should in theory attract better coaches, more time coaching the kids, better facilities, better fixture programme and other things which should produce better quality players to be prepared for first team football. |
Some fair points there Bluey, FWIW there are currently 24 cat 1 academies - 15 of those are premiership clubs plus 8 in the championship (ourselves + Stoke, Derby, ‘Boro, Reading, WBA, Fulham & Blackburn) & Sunderland in league 1.
Cat 2 has 21 clubs including 3 of the remaining 5 premiership clubs - two missing in both levels are Newcastle & Bournemouth. | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:28 - Dec 30 with 1573 views | SwanDownUnder |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:20 - Dec 30 by 34dfgdf54 |
That wasn’t the question though was it? Or do you struggle a bit? |
waw, theres no need to insult people | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:29 - Dec 30 with 1561 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:28 - Dec 30 by SwanDownUnder |
waw, theres no need to insult people |
There was no need to be sarcastic in your reply to me either when I was answering someone else’s question. Ta [Post edited 30 Dec 2019 17:30]
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| Birch’s programme notes on 17:30 - Dec 30 with 1555 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:28 - Dec 30 by SwanDownUnder |
waw, theres no need to insult people |
You just called someone “f*cking boring”.  |  |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 17:30 - Dec 30 with 1556 views | SwanDownUnder |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:20 - Dec 30 by 34dfgdf54 |
That wasn’t the question though was it? Or do you struggle a bit? |
but you do want to be a league 1 team running a cat 1 academy... or do you struggle a bit? | | | |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:31 - Dec 30 with 1549 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:30 - Dec 30 by SwanDownUnder |
but you do want to be a league 1 team running a cat 1 academy... or do you struggle a bit? |
The question was. Read slowly.
“Would you take relegation if it meant keeping academy”
And yes, yes I would. [Post edited 30 Dec 2019 17:32]
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| Birch’s programme notes on 17:46 - Dec 30 with 1504 views | jack247 |
| Birch’s programme notes on 17:30 - Dec 30 by SwanDownUnder |
but you do want to be a league 1 team running a cat 1 academy... or do you struggle a bit? |
It’s hypothetical anyway. It won’t take the current owners long to downgrade the academy and relegate us. | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 17:47 - Dec 30 with 1498 views | cymrojack |
| Birch’s programme notes on 13:28 - Dec 30 by Badlands |
Open question.
Would you take relegation to League 1 but keep the academy?
Both Southampton and Leicester invested in their academies but dropped into League 1 before using their academy product to climb back into the Premier League. |
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 10:39]
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| Gwynedd & Swansea - Veteran of Morriston Boys Club |
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| Birch’s programme notes on 17:48 - Dec 30 with 1498 views | KGriz16 |
I think people are being a little drastic in all this. Until anything is confirmed then we won't know. But, talk of relegation etc is crazy. |  | | |
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