Saints came from behind twice to earn a point, there are two ways of looking at this game and personally I think it was a step in the right direction.

When things are not going right for you your luck seems to desert you and that was the case for Saints against Newcastle, they dominated the game but had a cruel slice of bad luck that saw them go a goal behind early in the game.

That saw Fraser Forster left stranded after a blocked shot was lashed in from outside the area leaving the Saints keeper wrong footed and at that moment you feared for a Saints side, low on confidence as well as low on luck.

That seemed to be the case for much of the game, in the match preview I said we needed to play without fear and that just did not seem to be the case, too many times our attacking players were scared to take men on or to try something different and that left us going sideways too many times.

After the break we finally got a goal from open play at St Mary's, it was a superb finish from Manolo Gabbiadini, but not too many gave the credit to Nathan Redmond that he deserved, he put a lovely ball through for the Italian striker whose first touch was perhaps a little heavy and took him wide, however he checked back and fired home from a tight angle, although the keeper should really have done better.

But Saints could not hang on the the lead, all square and with 40 minutes left on the clock they should have kept it tight for a few minutes but went at it like it was injury time and Newcastle got up a head of steam, Forster saved the initial shot, but in truth he either had to hold the ball or get it out of the danger area, he did neither and the rebound was swept home from a tight angle, again the luck just wasn't with us.

But Saints should be given credit for keeping going, the arrival of Sofiane Boufal on 57 minutes changed the game in that Boufal played without fear, he was not scared to try something different and take on his man and that left Newcastle camped in their own half for the rest of the game.

Shane Long ran tirelessly throughout and earned the penalty that drew us level and you hoped that Saints might just pull out a result.

It was not to be the case though and it needed Steven Davis to kick one off the line to keep a deserved point.

The issue though is still one of creating chances, Mauricio Pellegrino started with two strikers albeit not both up front at the same time, but the issues were still the same, we did not create enough, there were plenty of attempts on goal, 12 to be exact, although this was less than previous games, but only 2 on target and the Toon keeper was barely worked.

However as disappointing as this game was in terms of the failure to win and some of the old failings returning, it was a step in the right direction, it keeps us ticking over and the quality is there to start scoring goals we just need the confidence to start playing football and creating chances rather than the fear of failure that is still present.

One thing that really struck me though is the central defensive positions, I really can't work out what Mauricio Pellegrino's thinking is there.

Yoshida did not have a bad game, but to be blunt his passing is not as good as Wesley Hoedt's, this meant that in the final 30 minutes we did not move the ball as smoothly as we should have done and too often this enabled Newcastle to regroup and get men behind the ball, we just couldn't get behind the and catch them on the back foot due to our pedestrian build up.

Virgil Van Dijk again did not play badly, but he did not look the player he was in his first two seasons at the club, he looked half hearted.

Pellegrino seems to be caught between a rock and a hard place, on one hand Yoshida has given the proverbial 110% and does not deserve to be dropped, yet on the other Wesley Hoedt was man of the match against Palace and looked the part against Man United.

In terms of quality Pellegrino should have no problem in knowing who his best pairing is, yet he seems to be baulking at making the big decision and be harsh.

If I was Wesley Hoedt, I would be knocking on the managers door and asking what is going on, Hoedt is the future we paid big money for him, if i was him I would not be happy sitting on the bench whilst a player who has mucked the club around is playing ahead of me, Hoedt had earned his right to play in the team, Van Dijk had not when he was put back in the starting line up.

But this point keeps us in the top ten at least until tonight when Leicester host West Brom who only need a draw to leapfrog above us.

However the fact that we are mid table only highlights how despite a poor start we do have the squad to kick on, if we had beaten Newcastle we would have been in 9th only 2 points off of 5th and if we find our form we can still power up the table.

Photo: Action Images

BoondockSaint added 14:56 - Oct 16 Newcastle fans must feel the same as Brighton fans: Should have won the game, but one of their players gives away a stupid penalty. Agree with above comments, especially TeamCortese and LordDZLucan: I used to dread Yoshi's name in the line up because of his one guaranteed howler every game. But he has kept his cool and gone to work and is much improved. And, has others have said: he at least wants to play for the club! VVD and a few others are just going through the motions with one eye on the transfer window. Why do Saints have to be a goal down before they start playing? It must be easy for other team's scouts: -Don't worry if we lose the ball, Saints players will knock it about until we can get back and into position. -Remember, if you don't have a clear shot, shoot it at Forster and he will knock it back to you (or a trailing player) for a better shot, oh yeah, and always shoot low on him.

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1970 added 16:34 - Oct 16 Good article Nick and 'saintmark1976' spot on with your comments totally agree , its going to be a long hard season for us coys
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allsaint54 added 16:50 - Oct 16 Does any other premiership team play more ponderous football than saints. We don't put any urgency or pace into the the game until late on when we're chasing tithe game. We've been playing like this for over a year now, the common factor is Ian Black's coaching. It's just like watching villa when they got relegated. Time for him to go & allow MP to bring in his own coaches. Training this week should be in the video room watching how Man City play with pace & precision. In terms of personnel I agree with most of the other comments in that Tadic & Redmond have had far too many chances & should be 'rested'. VVD strolled through the the game without looking the slightest bit interested, sell in Jan to Barca if they still want him on this showing. Hoedt must start at weekend with Yoshi. Unfortunately FF is back to his old flapping self, give Mcarthy a chance, can't be any worse. On the plus side scored 2 goals, but again only 2 shots on target

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halftimeorange added 17:02 - Oct 16 I have to take issue with the criticism levelled at VVD yesterday. In the final twenty minutes his head alone, other than a goal-line clearance from Davis, was our main source of resistance. I also don't agree that Yoshida is a bad passer of the ball. Although we have few attacks much of what positive play there is from Saints at the back emanates from him. The troubles we have are obvious - no height in attack (and Shane does leap higher than Charlie), no link-up between defence and attacking midfield - Lemina must surely play in a more forward position to fulfil that role - and the reluctance of Redmond, Tadic and the extremely one-footed Bertrand to beat anyone. Those three are the main culprits for slowing us down. Another point about yesterday - who was designated to look after Shelvey. It was obvious that he is the Newcastle playmaker and he was generally allowed to do what he liked and, for me, was clearly man of the match. What sort of tactical judgement was that. I, too, think Pellegrino is no better than Puell and could be out after Christmas. We truly are misfiring our way to the Championship unless the coaches get a grip. Forster is no longer number two for England and that in itself speaks volumes.

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LordDZLucan added 17:11 - Oct 16 Great analysis halftimeorange although I'm not sure about the VVD bit! All I can remember about the final few minutes was us hacking the ball away a though we were trying to protect a one goal lead!
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redwight added 19:11 - Oct 16 Boufal must surely be given a decent run in the starting 11. In the 25 minutes he was on the pitch, he alone suggested he has the X factor when it comes to opening up defences - particularly if we are going to persist with this snail paced build up. For our part, let's cut out the groans when the back heels and flicks don't come off - he needs to be encouraged. Bertrand seemed to be under strict instructions not to cross the halfway line. What was that all about? As to the CB debate, the best two that we have are VVD and Hoedt, so let's play them together. It may not be for long, but that's not the point. With greater match fitness VVD will get back to where he was and I don't buy the line that he is disinterested. There were occasions yesterday, as halftimeorange says, when his defending was immense. His clearing of the final corner when our backs were against the wall (for some reason) was a case in point.

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halftimeorange added 19:16 - Oct 16 To my eyes it was only VVD's head (apart from the Davis clearance) which kept Newcastle at bay in the final minutes of this game. Also, most of Saints positive moves out of defence emanated from Yoshida. The main culprits for slowing down our progress are invariably Redmond, Tadic and the very one-footed Bertrand none of whom either want to or can go round their opponents. In Bertrand's defence his overlaps, when they occur, go largely unrewarded as the ball has been lost. The main reasons for Saints inability to proactively attack are the lack of any link between defence and attacking midfield and Lemina must play further forward to exploit any opportunity to create chances for our forwards. Second, the lack of height in attack is obvious (Shane can jump higher than Charlie by the way) and third, doesn't our coaching staff study the opposition? Who the hell was supposed to shadow Shelvey? All Newcastle's thrust came, as expected, from him, he was allowed to roam all over the middle third of the pitch and was, for me, clearly man of the match. As for goal-keeping well, Forster appears to be out of favour in the England camp which says enough. It would not surprise me if Pellegrino was gone soon after Christmas because we are sliding towards the EPL trapdoor and when a generally starless team such as Newcastle can outpace our players and threaten our goal in the manner they did yesterday our coaching methods must be questionable. One further observation - I noticed Yoshida, Davis and VVD , yes, VVD applauded Saints fans at the end of the game. It might not count for much but the rest of them disappeared from view promptly following the final whistle.

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lemmsy added 19:31 - Oct 16 For me vandyk is either unfit , uninterested or both & was at fault on both goals. Sluggish on many occasions & weak headers . On the first goal he won the ball then just gave up on it handing it back to Newcastle & on the second he was very slow getting into position. There are lots of other points I could make but most of them are covered excellently in an article by the guardian with a link on the news now site

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aceofthebase added 19:45 - Oct 16 halftimeorange I think that you should be running this site. It's time to relegate Nick to the championship. VVD always plays calmly, wins headers and tackles and breaks up attacks. The VVD haters need to drop their hate and watch the game. Yoshida makes one mistake a game and gets hounded. Doesn't happen much now. I can't name one player that didn't make a couple of mistakes on Sunday that could have cost us the game but somehow they are not criticised. I agree Bertrand Tadic and Redmond spend more time passing back than going forward, they slow down the team and are so frustrating to watch. Bertrand is the one player that looks totally disinterested. I am not a fan of Cedric either. He is good at overhead kicks and booting the ball upfield but lacks too much to be a good defender and if he doesn't attack then we are one player short I want to give MP a chance but really has there been any improvement over the Puel days? Has it been more entertaining? The only difference is there are not so many aaaaaaghs in the interviews. This is going to be one helluva tough season, but I said the same last season!

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FARESAINT added 07:30 - Oct 17 I agree with a lot of the above points. FF has lost his mojo and looks very loose in goal. At his height he should be in total domination of the 6 yard box. Cedric and Bertrand are so obviously told not to range forward, you can see the frustration in their faces however there also never seems to be a link man in midfield? Lemina fits that position perfectly. Imagine Romeu and Davis with Lemina in front amd Gabbi and Austin up front. Bring SL on as an impact sub, by this time his pace against a tired defence would be great. Tadic and Redmond are so overrated, had a good season (well Tadic did) and have not shown an iota since then. Boufal is emerging and is more hungry to play. The speed of build up is infuriating but as we have no link up player in mid this is going to happen. I am no coach by the way just making what i think are obvious conclusions.

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SaintPaulVW added 07:40 - Oct 17 VVD is not yet the player he was last season so unsure why he is getting picked. It's all very well saying he has more talent than Yoshi and it's a 'fact' but if he doesn't or can't show it then the 'fact' is he shouldn't be in the team. Boufal deserves a run based on that performance, possibly in place of Redmond. He linked up well with Bertrand and his final ball was better. Tadic and Forster appear well off the pace. Gabbi and Long up front got the results we were after.

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aceofthebase added 10:09 - Oct 17 After the U23 match last night Forster is guaranteed to start against WBA
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TimSaint added 11:40 - Oct 17 12 chances is NOT plenty of chances - regardless of how many are on target or not - especially at home against a team that has just come up from the Championship (who incidentally created 19 chances themselves !!). All too often this season, we have had possession, but just don't create chances when we have the ball. 2 weeks back, Stoke had 30% possession but created more chances than us. We played virtually a 4-2-4 formation with the front 4 waiting for the ball and expecting Rom and Lemina to do the holding and creating. All too often we are carry 2/3/4 players per game and unfortunately those that are being carried at the moment are our most creative. Tadic was supposed to be the assist king, but KdB he ain't. He rarely puts crosses in and I had such high hopes that he would develop a great understanding with Gab after some of the games in the 2nd half of last season. Red was bought to run at teams with pace, put in a cross and take a pop shot, but we have seen virtually none of these attributes this season. OK he hoofed it into the box and Gab managed to turn back and score with a weak shot and he put in a couple of crosses, but he also passed it back sooooo much. He doesn't take players on any more, or passes instead of shooting. He got an England call up last season FFS, so you would have thought he would be keen to impress to get more. The reality is that 4 or 5 players need a rocket up their arses, or they need to be replaced in Jan. Competition for places should bring out the best in players (ala Jones and Niemi, Dodd and Kenna) but it appears that everyone is fine with playing poorly as they know they will be picked next week. Hunger, desire and will to win seems to be lacking at the moment. West Brom will park the bus and waste time from the first minute this weekend, so we need to open them up with pace and skill in order to win - otherwise we will be looking at the fixture list from hell on the run up to Christmas !!

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skiptonsaint added 12:27 - Oct 17 All been said. We got 1 point but I wonder what the crowd and this Forums reaction would of been Had it been 0-0 rather than 2-2. I feel a reasonably entertaining game got MP out of jail a bit this week and I hope he learns from that. If we are going to have a transitional season and it looks like that then at least lets have some memorable games
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Braveheart added 13:44 - Oct 18 Why is it that there appears to be no one at the club with the balls to drop Fraser Forster.? Firstly he can't get a game for England for love nor money. Secondly he is grossly inept as a Premiership goalkeeper, quite incapable of holding on to a ball. Both Newcastle goals were his mistakes. What makes matters worse is that he is coached by the England goalkeeping coach. Another one who is totally inept at doing his job, says it all really. Wake up Peligrino or you will be gone by Christmas, assuming of course they can find someone with the balls to actually do it.

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