| England u-21's 17:35 - Jun 8 with 9828 views | Dale_Pea |
2-0 down vs Norway.
Piss poor, but what should we expect from a team managed by Stuart Pearce. |  |
| Best buddy of' Irish_rafc' xox |
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| England u-21's on 22:57 - Jun 8 with 1911 views | AtThePeake |
| England u-21's on 22:53 - Jun 8 by olympicdale |
That is up there with the arrogance of why we as a nation feel we have nothing to learn from anyone, and you will never improve with that attitude, besides what could those Germans an Spanish possibly teach us about the game anyway.
The top stars in the premierleague are foreign, the best players in Germany and Spain are the majority Spanish an German. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Never ever said we had nothing to learn I'm fully aware of the ability of the other nations - but you seem unaware of the talent we have in this country - are you going to reply to the numbers of players I have posted about? Or just spout some football hipster nonsense about how English fans are arrogant?
I'm not denying Germany and Spain's younger sides are better than ours - I'm arguing that your point about our lack of talent and ability because players aren't playing for the best teams is downright wrong.
I just thought I'd make the Bundesliga comment before you inevitably did. |  |
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| England u-21's on 23:12 - Jun 8 with 1898 views | olympicdale |
| England u-21's on 22:47 - Jun 8 by AtThePeake |
OK, I named the players in the teams who finished in the top 7.
There are 10 players in the German U21 National Squad who play for teams in the top 7 of the Bundesliga, and 1 who play for a team that finished in the top 7 of the EPL.
I don't know how often they start, and I don't know how many players were unavailable, but there are 10 players in our U21 squad that play for teams in the top 7, and we didn't have a further 6 off the top off my head in Welbeck, Jones, Ox, Wilshere, Rodwell and Walker in the squad, whilst they were eligible to be so.
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There might be a similarity between the number of players playing in top half teams here and in the BL, but quality wise they're in a different world. I know I would rather have players like Max Kruse and Julian Draxler over Jack Rodwell and Kyle walker any day of the week, regardless of where their teams finished.
The fact that the top teams in this country would rather go out and buy a cheap foreigner to do the job of an up and coming englishman says it all about how the league has been allowed to be run by the powers that be. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| England u-21's on 23:34 - Jun 8 with 1883 views | AtThePeake |
| England u-21's on 23:12 - Jun 8 by olympicdale |
There might be a similarity between the number of players playing in top half teams here and in the BL, but quality wise they're in a different world. I know I would rather have players like Max Kruse and Julian Draxler over Jack Rodwell and Kyle walker any day of the week, regardless of where their teams finished.
The fact that the top teams in this country would rather go out and buy a cheap foreigner to do the job of an up and coming englishman says it all about how the league has been allowed to be run by the powers that be. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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But you were arguing how our young players were all playing for lower PL sides and Championship clubs, and how '90%' of the German players were playing at the 'top top level', which I've just dispelled.
Is it about the league has been allowed to run? Or about how 'bad' the english players are? Before you said that the players aren't good enough, so of course the clubs are gonna go out and buy these wonderful German players? So are the players actually good enough but the league is poorly run now?
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| England u-21's on 23:40 - Jun 8 with 1875 views | 442Dale |
| England u-21's on 23:34 - Jun 8 by AtThePeake |
But you were arguing how our young players were all playing for lower PL sides and Championship clubs, and how '90%' of the German players were playing at the 'top top level', which I've just dispelled.
Is it about the league has been allowed to run? Or about how 'bad' the english players are? Before you said that the players aren't good enough, so of course the clubs are gonna go out and buy these wonderful German players? So are the players actually good enough but the league is poorly run now?
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It's Pearce's fault.
Thread ends. |  |
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| England u-21's on 00:02 - Jun 9 with 1858 views | olympicdale |
| England u-21's on 23:34 - Jun 8 by AtThePeake |
But you were arguing how our young players were all playing for lower PL sides and Championship clubs, and how '90%' of the German players were playing at the 'top top level', which I've just dispelled.
Is it about the league has been allowed to run? Or about how 'bad' the english players are? Before you said that the players aren't good enough, so of course the clubs are gonna go out and buy these wonderful German players? So are the players actually good enough but the league is poorly run now?
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The majority of players are not good enough, end of. The league is run badly in that there is a very small percentage of home grown players playing at the top level. Take Man United, City, Arsenal an Chelsea, and the amount of top quality British talent at them all is limited, and this is the level they must be playing at to develop to the fullest, but they are more interested in buying cheap foreign players instead of developing English youth talent.
The German and Spanish associations are very stringent in how many home grown players play in their top league, they keep a very close eye on it, the premierleague here is just about money, not the good of the English game. | |
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| England u-21's on 00:17 - Jun 9 with 1851 views | AtThePeake |
| England u-21's on 00:02 - Jun 9 by olympicdale |
The majority of players are not good enough, end of. The league is run badly in that there is a very small percentage of home grown players playing at the top level. Take Man United, City, Arsenal an Chelsea, and the amount of top quality British talent at them all is limited, and this is the level they must be playing at to develop to the fullest, but they are more interested in buying cheap foreign players instead of developing English youth talent.
The German and Spanish associations are very stringent in how many home grown players play in their top league, they keep a very close eye on it, the premierleague here is just about money, not the good of the English game. |
I refer you back to the fact that there was the same amount of players from the top 7 teams in the Premier League in the English Under 21 side, despite the fact several (at least 6) key players that fall into that category were missing, as there were in the German side from the top 7 teams in the Bundesliga.
As for your second point, I can't really comment - I'm not expert on the Spanish and German football associations, but what I can say is that if the English players are as poor as you make out, can you blame the Premier League for looking to bring in foreign talent in order to keep the league at the highest level possible? | |
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| England u-21's on 00:18 - Jun 9 with 1848 views | ColDale |
| England u-21's on 00:02 - Jun 9 by olympicdale |
The majority of players are not good enough, end of. The league is run badly in that there is a very small percentage of home grown players playing at the top level. Take Man United, City, Arsenal an Chelsea, and the amount of top quality British talent at them all is limited, and this is the level they must be playing at to develop to the fullest, but they are more interested in buying cheap foreign players instead of developing English youth talent.
The German and Spanish associations are very stringent in how many home grown players play in their top league, they keep a very close eye on it, the premierleague here is just about money, not the good of the English game. |
What can the PL do?
Any rules that insist on English players would be illegal and diminish the quality of the division. It's a global league and to think otherwise would be to think its still 1989. if they reduce the quality, they lose the income.
There's a very good Phil Neville interview with Henry Winter thats appeared tonight where he basically says that in terms of coaching what happens in this country is the same that happens in every country. At Everton, they did the same as Man U,the same as Barca and the same as in Germany. Maybe the issue is more social than anything else.
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| England u-21's on 00:48 - Jun 9 with 1832 views | olympicdale |
| England u-21's on 00:18 - Jun 9 by ColDale |
What can the PL do?
Any rules that insist on English players would be illegal and diminish the quality of the division. It's a global league and to think otherwise would be to think its still 1989. if they reduce the quality, they lose the income.
There's a very good Phil Neville interview with Henry Winter thats appeared tonight where he basically says that in terms of coaching what happens in this country is the same that happens in every country. At Everton, they did the same as Man U,the same as Barca and the same as in Germany. Maybe the issue is more social than anything else.
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It was the job of the FA to insist on tighter regulations when it comes to the amount of foreign vs home grown talent, but it is too late now, they have to sleep on the bed they have made for themselves. | |
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| England u-21's on 02:02 - Jun 9 with 1816 views | AtThePeake |
| England u-21's on 00:48 - Jun 9 by olympicdale |
It was the job of the FA to insist on tighter regulations when it comes to the amount of foreign vs home grown talent, but it is too late now, they have to sleep on the bed they have made for themselves. |
The bed of having the most exciting and profitable top division in the world.
Not sure they'll mind too much | |
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| England u-21's on 04:49 - Jun 9 with 1803 views | olympicdale |
| England u-21's on 02:02 - Jun 9 by AtThePeake |
The bed of having the most exciting and profitable top division in the world.
Not sure they'll mind too much |
Maybe, but to the detriment of the national team now.
Its no surprise its about money for them, its what the PL was built on. | |
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| England u-21's on 06:25 - Jun 9 with 1800 views | KenBoon |
I stopped paying attention at "Wilshire at a push".
Cold hard truth is Poland isn't in Germany. There's lots of foreign footballers in Germany (all playing for free of course) and too many English players lose their way around the age of 18. The problem is every bit as social as it is training. Oh and that clueless idiot Pearce. He's an after dinner speaker. Nothing more and nothing less. Oh and it's illegal to stop Euopean foreign players from playing in England and clubs are free to hire who they want. |  | | |
| England u-21's on 08:08 - Jun 9 with 1787 views | PDIDDY |
Why does anyone give fu ck about the u21s?, our craig plays, that's ok then, kinell I'm talking to myself. |  |
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| England u-21's on 08:50 - Jun 9 with 1772 views | macro |
| England u-21's on 08:08 - Jun 9 by PDIDDY |
Why does anyone give fu ck about the u21s?, our craig plays, that's ok then, kinell I'm talking to myself. |
an ex board member will be having a hissy fit reading that comment! |  | | |
| England u-21's on 10:30 - Jun 9 with 1732 views | electricblue |
Reading an article the day after the italy defeat it mentioned pearces ideal starting 11 etc now that players are back incontention..
Dawson didnt make that 11 infact he wasnt on the bench...
Since Dawson as been in the u21 sq how many times as he banged in the goals that the strikers couldnt in those games!...
Also i like to think that Dawson played a hell of a part in the u21 qualification..
Sooner pearce goes the better i think, also its about time Roy called up Dawson for a few friendlies aswell.....
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| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| England u-21's on 10:50 - Jun 9 with 1624 views | D_Alien |
I may be in a minority of one on this board, but I suspect our Craig (probably the best footballing defender I've ever seen at Dale) is just short of being top class - i.e. having that something that makes you an international defender, or a regular starter at premiership level, which at his age he should be doing by now.
Can't quite put my finger on it, but it's something to do with speed of thought and getting into the right position based on that speed.
As I said, utterly brilliant for us in L2 & L1, great for Bolton in the championship, and will hopefully go on to make a decent career in the premiership; but not at the highest level.
Having said all that, having Pearce as your coach is one hell of an hindrance. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| England u-21's on 10:53 - Jun 9 with 1614 views | olympicdale |
| England u-21's on 06:25 - Jun 9 by KenBoon |
I stopped paying attention at "Wilshire at a push".
Cold hard truth is Poland isn't in Germany. There's lots of foreign footballers in Germany (all playing for free of course) and too many English players lose their way around the age of 18. The problem is every bit as social as it is training. Oh and that clueless idiot Pearce. He's an after dinner speaker. Nothing more and nothing less. Oh and it's illegal to stop Euopean foreign players from playing in England and clubs are free to hire who they want. |
Okay mr smart guy, who else do you see in this list that is genuinlly top quality, Wilshire is the stand out name, and I'm not fully convinced he's everything the media like to say he is, and his injury record already is a slight concern.
"Smith, Walker, Rose, Caulker, Carroll (Tottenham)
Zaha, Jones, Welbeck (United)
Rodwell (City)
Oxlade-Chamberlain, Wilshere (Arsenal)
Sterling, Henderson, Shelvey, Kelly, Flanagan, Wisdom, Robinson (Liverpool)
Chalobah, McEachran (Chelsea)
Barkley (Everton)" | |
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| England u-21's on 10:56 - Jun 9 with 1608 views | 442Dale |
| England u-21's on 10:50 - Jun 9 by D_Alien |
I may be in a minority of one on this board, but I suspect our Craig (probably the best footballing defender I've ever seen at Dale) is just short of being top class - i.e. having that something that makes you an international defender, or a regular starter at premiership level, which at his age he should be doing by now.
Can't quite put my finger on it, but it's something to do with speed of thought and getting into the right position based on that speed.
As I said, utterly brilliant for us in L2 & L1, great for Bolton in the championship, and will hopefully go on to make a decent career in the premiership; but not at the highest level.
Having said all that, having Pearce as your coach is one hell of an hindrance. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Sort of know what you mean, and it's when he moves forward out of the backline to get to balls into forwards feet; going back towards his own goal he doesn't have the sane issues and always appears one step ahead of his man. | |
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| England u-21's on 11:11 - Jun 9 with 1592 views | electricblue |
| England u-21's on 10:50 - Jun 9 by D_Alien |
I may be in a minority of one on this board, but I suspect our Craig (probably the best footballing defender I've ever seen at Dale) is just short of being top class - i.e. having that something that makes you an international defender, or a regular starter at premiership level, which at his age he should be doing by now.
Can't quite put my finger on it, but it's something to do with speed of thought and getting into the right position based on that speed.
As I said, utterly brilliant for us in L2 & L1, great for Bolton in the championship, and will hopefully go on to make a decent career in the premiership; but not at the highest level.
Having said all that, having Pearce as your coach is one hell of an hindrance. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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An advantage that Dawson as over many defenders is that he played as a midfield man in his early career and not many defenders have that ability.....
Also a big advantage is to read the game...... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| England u-21's on 12:11 - Jun 9 with 1561 views | olympicdale |
| England u-21's on 10:56 - Jun 9 by 442Dale |
Sort of know what you mean, and it's when he moves forward out of the backline to get to balls into forwards feet; going back towards his own goal he doesn't have the sane issues and always appears one step ahead of his man. |
He's an old head on young shoulders, im amazed that he hasnt really been given a chance at West Brom, but Premiership managers are too scared to take a chance on young players, it just needs someone to give Craig his chance. | |
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| England u-21's on 12:12 - Jun 9 with 1562 views | RotherhamDale |
I think Craig has actually been quite unlucky this season with West Brom. They've had a great season, with McAuley winning player of the year which makes him undroppable. Olsson is a good international defender so he's the ideal number one choice for Clarke.
He obviously knows Dawson is pretty good, he chucked him into the team when they played City away. He played well by all accounts too. |  |
| Possession with progression. |
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| England u-21's on 12:17 - Jun 9 with 1552 views | SaxonDale |
Next season is the most important in Dawson's career. If after the first few games of the season he isn't featuring in West Brom's starting eleven he needs to seriously think about moving on. |  | | |
| England u-21's on 12:27 - Jun 9 with 1544 views | KenBoon |
| England u-21's on 10:53 - Jun 9 by olympicdale |
Okay mr smart guy, who else do you see in this list that is genuinlly top quality, Wilshire is the stand out name, and I'm not fully convinced he's everything the media like to say he is, and his injury record already is a slight concern.
"Smith, Walker, Rose, Caulker, Carroll (Tottenham)
Zaha, Jones, Welbeck (United)
Rodwell (City)
Oxlade-Chamberlain, Wilshere (Arsenal)
Sterling, Henderson, Shelvey, Kelly, Flanagan, Wisdom, Robinson (Liverpool)
Chalobah, McEachran (Chelsea)
Barkley (Everton)" |
They're kids, they could all improve massively if they use the undoubted talent they have, or they could become Carlton Cole. The story of Carlton Cole should form part of a young footballers education, like how I was shown Charley say's at school to stop me pissing about near water or talking to strangers.
The German football thing. Yes Bayern Munich are European Champions but they're filled with foreign talent and whichever German, Polish, etc players they want. A lot of the other players on the super list are at clubs that finished over 30 points behind them in the league. | | | |
| England u-21's on 12:29 - Jun 9 with 1543 views | BigDaveMyCock |
There was an interesting, albeit guarded for obvious reasons, interview by Brendan Rogers in relation to Andy Carroll and whether he was going to keep him at Liverpool. I can't unfortunately find it now but it went something a long the lines of:-
It's not Andy Carroll's fault per se that he doesn't fit into my plans. It's more the case that if he plays then the rest of the players tend to resort to a certain pragmatic direct type of football that good teams find very easy to cope with these days.
It was as an acknowledgement that there is a tendancy to rush play in this country and get the ball upfield at the quickest opportunity possible often resulting in giving up possession too cheaply and being under constant pressure. The England national team's disease.
It was interesting that Rogers felt it necessary to get rid of a player like Carroll as part of a strategy to coach the team to play more possession football. He had to actively make it harder for the team to resort to direct play.
Whether he was right or wrong in relation to Carroll, there's something in it. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| England u-21's on 12:35 - Jun 9 with 1533 views | electricblue |
| England u-21's on 12:11 - Jun 9 by olympicdale |
He's an old head on young shoulders, im amazed that he hasnt really been given a chance at West Brom, but Premiership managers are too scared to take a chance on young players, it just needs someone to give Craig his chance. |
I actually think he would be QPR bound as he would be idea this coming season and more reliable than that plank samba....
Now come to think of it if Samba stays i think samba and dawson would be a promotion pairing. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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