| Ashby injured or hooked? 22:02 - Jan 21 with 6500 views | Beckenhamhoop |
Unfortunately I missed about 10 minutes of the match after Ashby came on. So, for those that saw it all, was he injured or hooked and if he was hooked, why? |  | | |  |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 10:12 - Jan 22 with 1397 views | YorkRanger |
Definitely hooked in my view, confirmed by the way he pulled his shirt off and went and sat in the corner of the bench without taking a coat etc.
As others have said he was very poor when he came on and played a part in their goal which made the end of the game much closer than it should have been. Generally I thought we were very good and controlled much of the game |  | | |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 10:41 - Jan 22 with 1286 views | Juzzie |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 00:19 - Jan 22 by Northernr |
Proper Premier League academy product. Paid a small fortune at a ridiculously young age and told repeatedly he was God's gift. |
My son plays youth football (U10's at the moment) and I'm now seeing boys in other teams who I find out are at Brentford, Fulham, QPR, Chelsea, Portsmouth etc. Academy's.
Cocky little fukkers each and every one. 10 years old and strutting around in their full length team winter coats like they are gods gift. Thing is, 99.9999% of them don't progress. Fragile ego's about to be shattered in a few years.
We have one boy in our team who's not at an academy but also plays for the local Elite team which is the best of the best boys in the area. He's a good kid and he's not cocky but he's starting to fall into the trap that he thinks he's more than he is. Rather than just playing it simple, he's constantly doing all the fancy schit like trying to drag the ball back and turn around and past the player. Works some of the time but the rest he loses possession. Has on a couple of occasions cost us a goal. Not good enough and utterly frustrating.
On Sunday he was playing centre mid and whilst his defending duties were fine, his forward passing & distribution was awful. He should be bossing each game but all he did was punt it upfield and hope one of our other lads up front would get it.
I'm really trying not to be biased here but I don't know why my son hasn't been picked up, he went to two trial sessions for the same Elite team and was easily as good as everyone else there. Thing is, he does do the simply stuff. He's quite direct and orthodox and just wants to play the game and get it done, which he does. Multiple end of season team awards is testament to this.
None of this street skilllzzzz schit that looks good on youtube but doesn't actually work in a game itself. As I was watching the trial sessions all the coaches were asking the kids to do is tippy-tappy ball between feet stuff. In the two one hour sessions at no point were the lads put into two teams (enough boys for 7-8 a side) and told to play a 10 minute game and assess how each boys does in a real world environment.
I guess they know what they are doing but seems to me they are not out to produce footballers, they are out to produce a conveyor belt of 'product' that can be sold for £££. |  | | |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 10:52 - Jan 22 with 1217 views | Lanhoop |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 10:12 - Jan 22 by YorkRanger |
Definitely hooked in my view, confirmed by the way he pulled his shirt off and went and sat in the corner of the bench without taking a coat etc.
As others have said he was very poor when he came on and played a part in their goal which made the end of the game much closer than it should have been. Generally I thought we were very good and controlled much of the game |
I suspect his reaction was more likely to be down to him being angry with himself and his performance rather than any disrespect. | | | |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 11:00 - Jan 22 with 1165 views | NorthantsHoop |
Ashby with really only a handful of games at top level at 23 and costs £3m says a lot about the modern game. Let's go back 40 years to the Venables era and you were an experienced footballer at that age, e.g. Stainrod, Fenwick, Neill, Dawes, Clive Allen, McDonald were top level in their early 20s. With paper thin squads in those days you had to be a very good player to get anywhere near a squad of about 14 or 15 players top, and only 12 players were selected per game. [Post edited 22 Jan 11:01]
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| Ashby injured or hooked? on 11:03 - Jan 22 with 1144 views | Ranger123 |
I have no idea why he takes every touch inside? Said touch is usually like a trampoline and the opposition sweep up. He's a complete liability. | | | |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 11:30 - Jan 22 with 1025 views | nix |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 11:00 - Jan 22 by NorthantsHoop |
Ashby with really only a handful of games at top level at 23 and costs £3m says a lot about the modern game. Let's go back 40 years to the Venables era and you were an experienced footballer at that age, e.g. Stainrod, Fenwick, Neill, Dawes, Clive Allen, McDonald were top level in their early 20s. With paper thin squads in those days you had to be a very good player to get anywhere near a squad of about 14 or 15 players top, and only 12 players were selected per game. [Post edited 22 Jan 11:01]
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That's the issue with these Premiership clubs hoovering up so many players. Loans to the Championship are all very well but you have to hit the ground running. Take Alfie: he wouldn't have been good enough for a loan at Championship level last season if he'd been in a Prem puppy farm but he was good enough for cameos and he's learnt from that and is noticeably good enough now to influence games. It was worth it for us to invest in him cos he's ours.
If Ashby had been ours he'd have been getting cameos for years and ironed out errors earlier. Morgan is an exception. Don't know how he's so good straight away in such a difficult league. Bit of a prodigy. [Post edited 22 Jan 13:24]
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| Ashby injured or hooked? on 11:31 - Jan 22 with 1013 views | BklynRanger |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 06:57 - Jan 22 by mart_Goblin |
Great post .
I think Marti likes to give players opportunities to play themselves into form and out of bad form .
I agree that I think MC saw this as a chance for the pair of them to keep the ball , gain some confidence etc. but just before Ashby was taken off I was thinking to myself this is now doing even more damage to him so it wasn’t a total shock he was removed .
He’s in a tough spot now Ashby . I think he believes he is a premier league player but it’s dawning on him he probably isn’t and that’s must be damaging to his confidence.
In the mid term he probably needs to do what Laird has done (albeit not by choice) and drop down a level just to go out and play the way he wants to . |
Agree with that, especially the idea of things dawning on him.
I still don't see the evidence for him being arrogant that other people are mentioning - have no problem being proved wrong but he doesn't mouth off at other players or wave his hands around giving advice - at least I've not seen it.
If anything I think he's probably a bit overwhelmed and trying too hard to make things happen. Every simple pass last night in that short cameo was over-cooked or misplaced - he did that good dink past the defender early on and then smashed it across goal to nobody from a good position. Comes inside and gives Andy Sinton a stomach ulcer when all he had to do was keep it tight by the touchline. A long list of errors for such a short appearance.
I think things are falling apart a bit for him at the minute and that's got to be hard to take when you've been sent out on loan and see your dreams dissolving after a relatively big move to Newcastle.
Saying all that, I maintain the kid is not our problem. Good luck to him and I'm sure he'll get over it, I hope he turns it around at the right club next season, but we should send him back this month and let everyone move on. We've got CB options coming back so Jimmy can and should stay where he is - Colback can play there if god forbid an injury happens, and I'll bet Edwards could too in a pinch. [Post edited 22 Jan 11:32]
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| Ashby injured or hooked? on 12:50 - Jan 22 with 885 views | StreathamRanger |
It was a bizarre few minutes on the pitch for him. He needs a spell away from the first team. With injured players coming back he's third choice right back at a pinch. Anyone know what is wrong with JCS? Getting a bit annoying that he can't seem to manage more than a couple of games without breaking down again. That being said, Fox is currently doing a good job at centre back. | | | |
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| Ashby injured or hooked? on 13:11 - Jan 22 with 821 views | Gloucs_R |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 09:42 - Jan 22 by CiderwithRsie |
I don't have a problem playing a loanee as such, which is why I'm OK with Edwards.
I do have a problem with playing a loanee solely to develop them for another club. If that's what's going on then Newcastle should be paying us. |
I'm not even bothered about developing a player for someone else as long as he is class for us.
I draw the line at developing a bang average player who has been poor and has a negative effect on the pitch.
BTW, Question for all....I have heard Santos cost us a fee and also that he was free. Does anyone know? |  |
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| Ashby injured or hooked? on 13:21 - Jan 22 with 794 views | GroveR |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 10:41 - Jan 22 by Juzzie |
My son plays youth football (U10's at the moment) and I'm now seeing boys in other teams who I find out are at Brentford, Fulham, QPR, Chelsea, Portsmouth etc. Academy's.
Cocky little fukkers each and every one. 10 years old and strutting around in their full length team winter coats like they are gods gift. Thing is, 99.9999% of them don't progress. Fragile ego's about to be shattered in a few years.
We have one boy in our team who's not at an academy but also plays for the local Elite team which is the best of the best boys in the area. He's a good kid and he's not cocky but he's starting to fall into the trap that he thinks he's more than he is. Rather than just playing it simple, he's constantly doing all the fancy schit like trying to drag the ball back and turn around and past the player. Works some of the time but the rest he loses possession. Has on a couple of occasions cost us a goal. Not good enough and utterly frustrating.
On Sunday he was playing centre mid and whilst his defending duties were fine, his forward passing & distribution was awful. He should be bossing each game but all he did was punt it upfield and hope one of our other lads up front would get it.
I'm really trying not to be biased here but I don't know why my son hasn't been picked up, he went to two trial sessions for the same Elite team and was easily as good as everyone else there. Thing is, he does do the simply stuff. He's quite direct and orthodox and just wants to play the game and get it done, which he does. Multiple end of season team awards is testament to this.
None of this street skilllzzzz schit that looks good on youtube but doesn't actually work in a game itself. As I was watching the trial sessions all the coaches were asking the kids to do is tippy-tappy ball between feet stuff. In the two one hour sessions at no point were the lads put into two teams (enough boys for 7-8 a side) and told to play a 10 minute game and assess how each boys does in a real world environment.
I guess they know what they are doing but seems to me they are not out to produce footballers, they are out to produce a conveyor belt of 'product' that can be sold for £££. |
Amen to this. My eldest is U15, plays for two different teams (5-a-side and 11-a-side) and the leagues are packed with players who are show over substance. I'm not saying let's go back to Beck but there's got to be some end product - doing rabonas at any level of football is a slappable offence.
Seeing Ashby pinging passes around with the outside of his boot (usually into touch/to the oppo) triggered me earlier this season. When I see kids I coach giving away possesion doing that I ask them to walk me through their thinking and once you strip away the bollòcks about "KDB lookz sick when he does it" you find that 9 times out of 10 they play it because their body positioning is wrong and they don't trust their weaker foot. |  | | |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 13:29 - Jan 22 with 749 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 06:34 - Jan 22 by PunteR |
Didn't see the game, but from reading LFW I hope he got hooked. Good management, need to be ruthless and also sets a standard for the other 10 outfield players. Plus Ashby needs to give his head a wobble as he makes too many stupid errors. |
Yes, for me that's the key takeaway. Not only is Marti proving to be a good manager but he can be ruthless when required. He recognised that he'd made a mistake with the second set of subs and corrected it to keep hold of the 3 points. Fortunately for Ashby picking up a "knock" helped ease his embarrassment. |  | | |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 13:36 - Jan 22 with 704 views | LazyFan |
Even if he was injured its not a good look, I think Marti will place him at the back of the queue now. Welcome to the land of EDB and Santos, the forgotten men.
But I don't agree that he sees himself as bigun.
I think its the opposite, he's trying too hard to impress and getting it wrong. Hes trying to look good so, he gets picked up by a club and he can see here we are going places with this manager. In addition Dunne could be off so, this makes him think he has a chance to get established as a RB at a London club. Hes actually worried he's not gonna make it and overdoing it.
Against Dull, he was all over the place in his passing. Trying to do way too much, rather than just hang onto it and keep it really simple as were winning easily by then. Marti tried him in a RM role and he blew his chance. Santos would have played better.
Maybe Marti will try him again if were 2-0 up, but there is no way he will play him unless injuries force it. And as all the defenders are coming back, chances for Ashby will be at the Santos level now as Marti does not suffer this. Kakay was not this bad and as I said before can carry the ball and should have been tried in the middle instead of us suffering Dozzell for years and now Madsen.
Ashby is still young, can learn. But time is running out and he needs a club he can play at. I am not sure QPR is the place for him. Orient could be a good move. |  |
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| Ashby injured or hooked? on 13:40 - Jan 22 with 665 views | TheChef |
At the end of the day he's not our player so let's try not to get so fixated on him.
Either he'll improve which is good for us, or if not he just goes back to his parent club, and we see if we can source better elsewhere. |  |
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| Ashby injured or hooked? on 17:35 - Jan 22 with 509 views | R_from_afar |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 09:30 - Jan 22 by gazza1 |
Madsen worked pretty hard as far as I could see, kept the structure of the team in midfield as MC had set out at the beginning of the game, cleared a dangerous attack on the edge of the box, got forward.....wtf more do you want him to do when he comes on as sub. Compare that with Ashby and there is no comparison.
Whilst you should have your opinion....sadly, .it is very wrong. |
"wtf more do you want him to do when he comes on as sub?"
Look, it must be hard for anyone - anyone - to come on that late in a highly competitive, meaningful game, and to be fair to him, he didn't do anything disastrous, but his closing down, tracking and marking were poor. Being goalside is not enough in and of itself, you have to be close enough to your man to put them off, tackle them, or actually stop their pass/shot.
There were times when Madsen was in the right place but stood off too much. He needed to get tighter, it's being up close which makes the difference, although you still have to be goalside and leave a small gap, so you don't get rolled.
There was even one time when Hull had the ball in our half and Madsen was close enough to engage but moved away from the ball.
As I say, his performance wasn't disastrous but he does need to contribute more defensively. He can come good, I trust our coaches, they have successfully improved quite a few of our players.
I think most people on here are just disappointed that he is not delivering. What makes things worse for Madsen is that many of his fellow players have raised their game, something which makes those who are not performing stick out more.
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| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Ashby injured or hooked? on 18:28 - Jan 22 with 460 views | mart_Goblin |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 17:35 - Jan 22 by R_from_afar |
"wtf more do you want him to do when he comes on as sub?"
Look, it must be hard for anyone - anyone - to come on that late in a highly competitive, meaningful game, and to be fair to him, he didn't do anything disastrous, but his closing down, tracking and marking were poor. Being goalside is not enough in and of itself, you have to be close enough to your man to put them off, tackle them, or actually stop their pass/shot.
There were times when Madsen was in the right place but stood off too much. He needed to get tighter, it's being up close which makes the difference, although you still have to be goalside and leave a small gap, so you don't get rolled.
There was even one time when Hull had the ball in our half and Madsen was close enough to engage but moved away from the ball.
As I say, his performance wasn't disastrous but he does need to contribute more defensively. He can come good, I trust our coaches, they have successfully improved quite a few of our players.
I think most people on here are just disappointed that he is not delivering. What makes things worse for Madsen is that many of his fellow players have raised their game, something which makes those who are not performing stick out more.
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Great post .
I really am desperate for him to do well like all our players .
But in this division he looks awkward and like a fish out of water a lot of the time .
Seen so many of our players tear into him for different reasons (last night was Lloyd..and Dunne was caught snarling at him before the camera switched ) and that makes me route for him, but they can’t all be wrong . They will be fully aware that for the most part he’s a passenger .
I just think he wants to get the ball down and play nice triangles and wall passes all within the circumference of a wide brimmed hat .
But he can’t do it in the Championship in the languid style he wants to and unfortunately he just in the wrong league . If he can adapt over the summer then we might have a decent player but the football clock waits for nobody and I just don’t think , sadly , he’ll ever cope with the frantic nature of our league . |  | | |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 22:02 - Jan 22 with 240 views | Logman |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 18:28 - Jan 22 by mart_Goblin |
Great post .
I really am desperate for him to do well like all our players .
But in this division he looks awkward and like a fish out of water a lot of the time .
Seen so many of our players tear into him for different reasons (last night was Lloyd..and Dunne was caught snarling at him before the camera switched ) and that makes me route for him, but they can’t all be wrong . They will be fully aware that for the most part he’s a passenger .
I just think he wants to get the ball down and play nice triangles and wall passes all within the circumference of a wide brimmed hat .
But he can’t do it in the Championship in the languid style he wants to and unfortunately he just in the wrong league . If he can adapt over the summer then we might have a decent player but the football clock waits for nobody and I just don’t think , sadly , he’ll ever cope with the frantic nature of our league . |
Question about Madsen. Do you think he can improve his speed and stamina ? Let's face it, those are probably the two main things which set Morgan apart from him and stop him from getting in the team. I would say no, he won't be able to, but I'm interested to know if the coaches will be able to turn him into the no. 10 that we hoped we would have buzzing around between the lines. | | | |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 23:00 - Jan 22 with 169 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 13:29 - Jan 22 by Benny_the_Ball |
Yes, for me that's the key takeaway. Not only is Marti proving to be a good manager but he can be ruthless when required. He recognised that he'd made a mistake with the second set of subs and corrected it to keep hold of the 3 points. Fortunately for Ashby picking up a "knock" helped ease his embarrassment. |
Some people will look pretty stupid if Cifuentes plays Ashby at all on Saturday. |  | | |
| Ashby injured or hooked? on 23:15 - Jan 22 with 132 views | numptydumpty |
I can't see any first team opportunities for Newcastle for Ashby.
I would think if Ashby proved to be decent , we could have him as a cheaper option to sign as a permanent contract player.
He is obviously rated higher than Santos, so surely we will try to push Santos out on loan or sell if possible.
Ashby has moments but he is too much of a risk taker when it's not necessary.
My own personal opinion is that he could have been told by Cifuentes to cut out the show passes or flashy interceptions and be more aware of where he is on the pitch and take the educated risks, not the do or die options , he regularly seems to try to do.
And he could have hooked, because he had made several errors of judgement, and perhaps Cifuentes said if you keep doing this, I will take you off the pitch. Hence his frustration.
Interesting management tactics, if so.
But I felt he was taken off due to injury. [Post edited 22 Jan 23:19]
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