| QPR Finances released 06:25 - Feb 28 with 59662 views | Jeff |
From Kieran Maguire in the Twitter:
[Post edited 28 Feb 2023 6:29]
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| QPR Finances released on 20:07 - Mar 1 with 3729 views | MelakaRanger |
| QPR Finances released on 17:01 - Mar 1 by Northernr |
It was the same with Chris Wright, successful businessmen lose their minds in football.
If Tony Fernandes' airlines or hotels, of Ruben's shipping company, was paying out £127 in wages for every £100 it brought through the door, and losing £2m a month doing it, they'd just laugh. Obviously fcking not. Close it. But in football that's just fine. |
Exactly. Why should football clubs be any different to other businesses.
FFP should be set at zero £ on a rolling 3 year basis.
Football, not just QPR needs a reset to the real world.
Where else other than QPR or similar teams can workers/players get paid £5/£10 grand or more a week and perform so poorly?
Any other normal business has performance levels that must be met . If you can’t do the job properly , despite coaching, you’re out. |  | | |
| QPR Finances released on 20:10 - Mar 1 with 3718 views | Northolt_Rs |
| QPR Finances released on 19:25 - Mar 1 by PunteR |
I was about to post something similar. Brentford mug trying to lord it. Just reeking of smugness.
Fak orf. |
Exactly. Surely the fckr has better things to do than constantly stalk our website to let us know how well brentfart are doing and how sh1t we are…like we don’t all know this already. Sanctimonious pr1ck. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| QPR Finances released on 20:40 - Mar 1 with 3570 views | R_from_afar |
| QPR Finances released on 17:01 - Mar 1 by Northernr |
It was the same with Chris Wright, successful businessmen lose their minds in football.
If Tony Fernandes' airlines or hotels, of Ruben's shipping company, was paying out £127 in wages for every £100 it brought through the door, and losing £2m a month doing it, they'd just laugh. Obviously fcking not. Close it. But in football that's just fine. |
I absolutely take your point but currently, all the time that you are a Championship football club, there is just a chance that one decent season culminating in promotion will see your revenues boosted by the sort of multiples which cannot be achieved in pretty much any other industry, with the exception of the illegal ones.
It’s crazy and it’s a form of gambling really. |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| QPR Finances released on 20:45 - Mar 1 with 3540 views | paulparker |
| QPR Finances released on 14:31 - Mar 1 by Northernr |
Always interesting to revisit what was said at the time isn't it...
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/55699/
Have we pushed the boat out this summer?
No, the boat is running at exactly the speed it should have been running. Everything was done within budget. The whole business plan, we’ve always said, is about developing players and in order to replace the missing parachute payments we’re going to have to sell players. We did a great deal with Ebere Eze, some of that money has been able to be reinvested, I think we’ve invested it very wisely and it’s allowed us a cushion within FFP. When I’m doing budgets for player recruitment I don’t just look at the current season. I’ve got a spreadsheet that says this is us this year, this is the effect on FFP next year, this is the effect the year after — it’s always a running three years because that’s what the recording period is. It’s always this season plus two seasons, and this season minus two seasons ago, so we always know where we stand with it and know we have that cushion. The finances on that front have worked well this season. Other seasons you need to sell a player to bring in funds, this year we felt it important to hang onto the boys. That strategy has challenges as well, you need to get the message out to other clubs, please don’t waste your time giving me a bid and risk upsetting the apple cart because come September 1 he will still be with us and you turning his head for a couple of weeks is just going to piss us off.
Have we been able to do this purely because we got decent money for Luke Freeman and then excellent money for Ebere Eze?
Absolutely. It’s the sales. This will contradict what I said about the single biggest source of income being tickets, the single biggest source of income will probably be player sales because that’s where you get the big hits from.
Can you explain how the FFP/P&S rules have been changed around Covid?
Are you sure you want to get into this? We can get the financial director down here for chapter and verse but it would be one of the worst podcasts ever recorded.
I’ll be that guy.
Let me give you the high level answer to that. They are averaging the previous years into one year, to give them an estimated idea. That’s how it’s been relaxed. They recognise actually trying to account for ‘you lost £x in revenue but you’ve cut this much in costs’ and trying to do it that way for 24 Championship clubs would be a logistical nightmare. They’ve taken two years, averaged it out, that’s your recorded figure for the Covid year. Just so you know though, even if it had been one year, we’d have been fine.
So was this summer seen as a good time to hang onto players and invest in some more because of that, because of the state of the rest of the league, because of how we finished last season?
All of the above, plus some. It’s because of the players involved, let’s face it I love watching Ilias and Chris on the pitch together, it’s a fantastic combination and they are fun to watch. It’s keeping those kinds of flair players and adding players like Jordy and Jimmy Dunne to stiffen up the defence. That needed to be done. Because we were ahead of the curve on FFP/P&S, had kept everything tight through the lockdown, and other clubs are struggling and market conditions are nosediving for players, it’s allowed us to go in and take advantage. If you’d told me three years ago ‘here’s the business we’ve done this summer and here’s what it cost us’ I’d have said ‘there’s no chance of that happening’. We’re in the right place, at the right time, because of the way things have been managed in the past and we’ve managed to get all our business done. |
So are people now going to realise what a bullsh1tting smarmy tvvat Hoos truly is ? |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| QPR Finances released on 00:00 - Mar 2 with 3280 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| QPR Finances released on 15:15 - Mar 1 by francisbowles |
They may have been separate entities up until now but they are due to be inextricably linked, in the new facility.
It is hoped that better young players will be attracted and retained, with better facilities and a better chance of first team football. |
With all due respect, you're looking at it from a logistical perspective and missing the key point. With all the will in the world the better young players will not be retained because under the EPPP regulations a Cat1 academy (i.e. PL club) can just come along to QPR's Cat2 academy and take our better young players away for peanuts. |  | | |
| QPR Finances released on 00:10 - Mar 2 with 3268 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| QPR Finances released on 14:39 - Mar 1 by NewBee |
Category 1 is horrifically expensive - extra staff/facilities costs essentially - and while QPR Cat.1 youngsters signed by big clubs would then qualify for reasonable compensation, you'd still be losing them to Chelsea, L'pool, Man Utd etc before you'd have got much (any?) 1st team games out of them.
As for the "B" Team model, since Brexit it has become very difficult to get work permits for promising 19 or 20 y.o. players from the EU who've just been rejected prematurely by clubs in their home country.
Which is one reason why Brentford are now reviving their own Academy (another being that an Academy is now a UEFA requirement for clubs playing in European competition  ) |
Steady!
It made sense for Benham to scrap the Academy when Brentford were in the Championship and losing prospects to PL clubs. Now that Brentford is establishing itself in the PL, it may be worthwhile revisiting that decision (IF the Bees qualify for Europe).
As for QPR, I don't think it's the right strategy for the club now, just as it wasn't for Brentford then (unless the Ibiza cup requires entrants to have an Academy). | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 00:13 - Mar 2 with 3266 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| QPR Finances released on 14:31 - Mar 1 by Northernr |
Always interesting to revisit what was said at the time isn't it...
https://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/news/55699/
Have we pushed the boat out this summer?
No, the boat is running at exactly the speed it should have been running. Everything was done within budget. The whole business plan, we’ve always said, is about developing players and in order to replace the missing parachute payments we’re going to have to sell players. We did a great deal with Ebere Eze, some of that money has been able to be reinvested, I think we’ve invested it very wisely and it’s allowed us a cushion within FFP. When I’m doing budgets for player recruitment I don’t just look at the current season. I’ve got a spreadsheet that says this is us this year, this is the effect on FFP next year, this is the effect the year after — it’s always a running three years because that’s what the recording period is. It’s always this season plus two seasons, and this season minus two seasons ago, so we always know where we stand with it and know we have that cushion. The finances on that front have worked well this season. Other seasons you need to sell a player to bring in funds, this year we felt it important to hang onto the boys. That strategy has challenges as well, you need to get the message out to other clubs, please don’t waste your time giving me a bid and risk upsetting the apple cart because come September 1 he will still be with us and you turning his head for a couple of weeks is just going to piss us off.
Have we been able to do this purely because we got decent money for Luke Freeman and then excellent money for Ebere Eze?
Absolutely. It’s the sales. This will contradict what I said about the single biggest source of income being tickets, the single biggest source of income will probably be player sales because that’s where you get the big hits from.
Can you explain how the FFP/P&S rules have been changed around Covid?
Are you sure you want to get into this? We can get the financial director down here for chapter and verse but it would be one of the worst podcasts ever recorded.
I’ll be that guy.
Let me give you the high level answer to that. They are averaging the previous years into one year, to give them an estimated idea. That’s how it’s been relaxed. They recognise actually trying to account for ‘you lost £x in revenue but you’ve cut this much in costs’ and trying to do it that way for 24 Championship clubs would be a logistical nightmare. They’ve taken two years, averaged it out, that’s your recorded figure for the Covid year. Just so you know though, even if it had been one year, we’d have been fine.
So was this summer seen as a good time to hang onto players and invest in some more because of that, because of the state of the rest of the league, because of how we finished last season?
All of the above, plus some. It’s because of the players involved, let’s face it I love watching Ilias and Chris on the pitch together, it’s a fantastic combination and they are fun to watch. It’s keeping those kinds of flair players and adding players like Jordy and Jimmy Dunne to stiffen up the defence. That needed to be done. Because we were ahead of the curve on FFP/P&S, had kept everything tight through the lockdown, and other clubs are struggling and market conditions are nosediving for players, it’s allowed us to go in and take advantage. If you’d told me three years ago ‘here’s the business we’ve done this summer and here’s what it cost us’ I’d have said ‘there’s no chance of that happening’. We’re in the right place, at the right time, because of the way things have been managed in the past and we’ve managed to get all our business done. |
Very interesting! It's now more of a whoopee cushion within FFP. | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 06:51 - Mar 2 with 3098 views | The_Beast1976 |
I'd tell the EFL to fcuk right off, we'll spend what we want and the owners will pay it (and have provided an indemnity and bond to cover all spending), and if you come after us and attempt to deduct points or remove us from the league then we'll take you through every court (not arbitration) in the land (and Europe, where applicable) to fight for our right (as owners) to spend OUR money exactly as we wish. If the EFL don't like that then bring it fcuking on, in full view of the public, over many years. You never know, some other club's owners may even then join us.
That's what I'd do. Fcuk FFP. It's nothing but an elaborate con contrived by those at the top to keep the rich at the top and the poor downtrodden. Is my course of action irresponsible? Perhaps, but something has to be done because this whole situation with FFP is an absolute farce and ruining the game (if the Permiershite itself, with all its tv money, hadn't already ruined it). [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 7:08]
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| QPR Finances released on 07:58 - Mar 2 with 2976 views | toboboly |
Funny how for all those years of 16th place finishes we were told it was a waiting game, other clubs would fall foul of FFP and we would take advantage by running a smooth ship. Then one decent half season we get all starry eyed and spunked the lot on Jeff Hendrick, this club, this fcking club. |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| QPR Finances released on 08:22 - Mar 2 with 2924 views | R_from_afar |
| QPR Finances released on 06:51 - Mar 2 by The_Beast1976 |
I'd tell the EFL to fcuk right off, we'll spend what we want and the owners will pay it (and have provided an indemnity and bond to cover all spending), and if you come after us and attempt to deduct points or remove us from the league then we'll take you through every court (not arbitration) in the land (and Europe, where applicable) to fight for our right (as owners) to spend OUR money exactly as we wish. If the EFL don't like that then bring it fcuking on, in full view of the public, over many years. You never know, some other club's owners may even then join us.
That's what I'd do. Fcuk FFP. It's nothing but an elaborate con contrived by those at the top to keep the rich at the top and the poor downtrodden. Is my course of action irresponsible? Perhaps, but something has to be done because this whole situation with FFP is an absolute farce and ruining the game (if the Permiershite itself, with all its tv money, hadn't already ruined it). [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 7:08]
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Well, it is tempting, but the EFL hold all the cards. I suspect they would simply remove us from the fixture list while the legal process rumbled on, meaning that the club would effectively be mothballed for months if not years. That would also have a devastating impact on our revenue streams, although I suppose we could sue the EFL for loss of earnings.
FFP has never been fair on the smaller clubs but then I strongly suspect that was deliberate. We can’t have the established order being disrupted now, can we? | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| QPR Finances released on 09:24 - Mar 2 with 2784 views | PinnerPaul |
| QPR Finances released on 17:12 - Mar 1 by PinnerPaul |
Genuine question.
Do we think players that would have made the 1st team haven't just because Chris Ramsey is in charge?
Seems a simplistic argument to me, prompted by Brentford abandoning the idea and Simon Jordan on that documentary admitting that despite Palace's massive youth set up, it didn't guarantee that ANY players they bring through there would actually 'make it'.
Also if it WERE true, wouldn't we expect to see ex QPR academy players making 1st teams elsewhere?
Does that happen, is their a list of players we have let go at 16,17,18 whatever that have made it?
If there are, fair enough - I genuinely don't know if there are. |
Is that a no then? | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 09:34 - Mar 2 with 2760 views | francisbowles |
| QPR Finances released on 00:00 - Mar 2 by Benny_the_Ball |
With all due respect, you're looking at it from a logistical perspective and missing the key point. With all the will in the world the better young players will not be retained because under the EPPP regulations a Cat1 academy (i.e. PL club) can just come along to QPR's Cat2 academy and take our better young players away for peanuts. |
Yes, I understand your point but the fact is even if we were Cat1 other clubs could still pinch from our academy albeit it would cost them a jar of peanuts instead of a small bag.
Better facilities and a pathway to the first team, would be helpful in persuading some of those they try to pinch, that they might want to stay here.
It's not perfect or foolproof but we have just built it, having waited years for it, so if the owners are happy to give it a chance, then we should. It apparently makes sod all difference to FFP. | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 09:37 - Mar 2 with 2750 views | francisbowles |
| QPR Finances released on 19:26 - Mar 1 by QPR_Jim |
Yeah, sounds about right to me, we knew we had gone for it a bit in the summer and then again in Jan.
I think the worrying thing currently is that for the outlay we've done financially, you'd expect us to have some sellable assets, not this current slop. If anything the squad is worth less than 2 years ago, how's that been allowed to happen? |
The standard states the report also shows we owe about £90 million. I presume that is shown on the balance sheet, which I haven't seen on here.
It's probably a mixture of both but who owes this money, the club or the owners? | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 11:05 - Mar 2 with 2633 views | slmrstid |
| QPR Finances released on 09:37 - Mar 2 by francisbowles |
The standard states the report also shows we owe about £90 million. I presume that is shown on the balance sheet, which I haven't seen on here.
It's probably a mixture of both but who owes this money, the club or the owners? |
The devil is in the detail, but all monies owed in the accounts are owed by the club, not by the owners. The money the owners stand to lose is simply their share capital in the club (which is still a hell of a lot of money!)
From the accounts, I make it gross liabilities of £96.5m, £69.5m of which is presented as being payable within twelve months, £27m over twelve months.
This is all a bit broad brush but those numbers can largely be attributable to:-
- Shareholder loans - £52.2m (notable that not all of their loans are converted to capital, so as long as they remain loans they are treated as one day being due to be paid back)
- EFL loans (Covid related, I would guess) - £5.7m
- FFP Settlement - £10.3m
- Bond + Unpaid Interest - £16.6m
- Transfer fees - £2.1m
- HMRC - £2.1m (although worth noting they owe us £775k in VAT at year end, so nets off at £1.4m, even though you cant do the cash bit as a set-off)
- Other thats not worth breaking down, trade payables, HP accounts etc - £7.5m
So the vast majority of our debt carrying in the accounts is still to owners and bond holders - these two items account for just over 70% of the overall creditors of the club.
Importantly, the club's Strategic Report also notes that the shareholders have extended their financial support commitment to 31 May 2024 under deed, which is a twelve month extension from the prior year accounts which said 31 May 2023 which I believe was causing some worry on the internet a few weeks ago. So we're not going to get the rug pulled from underneath us just yet. |  | | |
| QPR Finances released on 11:17 - Mar 2 with 2608 views | slmrstid |
Also worth noting these figures are all as at 31 May 2022....which is now 9 months ago. So are very out of date already, and what they are now (or 31 May 2023 at least...) won't be known for another 12 months by which time they'll be out of date again and...so on. | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 11:22 - Mar 2 with 2575 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| QPR Finances released on 11:17 - Mar 2 by slmrstid |
Also worth noting these figures are all as at 31 May 2022....which is now 9 months ago. So are very out of date already, and what they are now (or 31 May 2023 at least...) won't be known for another 12 months by which time they'll be out of date again and...so on. |
Yes, but you said that eight minutes ago. So that's out of date too. |  |
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| QPR Finances released on 11:51 - Mar 2 with 2481 views | Northernr |
A Brentford fan and a Fulham fan debate the nuances of modern football finance on a QPR message board. The QPR fans sit at the side watching, sipping from the bleach bottle. |  | | |
| QPR Finances released on 11:54 - Mar 2 with 2460 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| QPR Finances released on 11:51 - Mar 2 by Northernr |
A Brentford fan and a Fulham fan debate the nuances of modern football finance on a QPR message board. The QPR fans sit at the side watching, sipping from the bleach bottle. |
The bottle is loaned. | |
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| QPR Finances released on 12:12 - Mar 2 with 2410 views | denhamhoop2 |
| QPR Finances released on 12:11 - Mar 1 by TK1 |
Hello, I have some gentlemen in reception to see you...they say they're worse business than Tyler Roberts, pound for pound:
Vinny Jones
Mark Hateley
Keith Rowland
Dean Sturridge
Armel Tchakounte
Sammy Yousef
Ugo Ukah
Christer Warren
Petter Vaagen Moen
Rob Hulse
DJ Campbell
Jose Boswinga
Park Si-Jung
Chris Samba
Esteban Granero
Jay Boothroyd
Sandro
Mauricio Isla
Jordan Mutch
Keiron Dyer
Jordan Cousins
Stephen Caulker
Rio Ferdinand...
There's actually so many of them, I've had to stick all the loan signings, Zarate, Vargas, Assou-Ekotto, Will Keane, Maiga, Ben Haim, Sahar, Fabio, Machedo, etc in their own annex. |
You forget Richard Ord £675k for a player who never made it past his first pre season | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 12:21 - Mar 2 with 2365 views | denhamhoop2 |
| QPR Finances released on 09:08 - Mar 1 by stanistheman |
True, but selling them and replacing them with lesser quality players on lower wages is likely to leave the team struggling to stay in the Championship.
We would become a side like Rotherham, Peterborough, Barnsley or Wycombe. |
Oh to be as well run as Rotherham Barnsley and Wycombe clubs all living within their means and more or less guaranteed to be pushing for promotion from League One every season | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 12:56 - Mar 2 with 2227 views | R_from_afar |
| QPR Finances released on 12:21 - Mar 2 by denhamhoop2 |
Oh to be as well run as Rotherham Barnsley and Wycombe clubs all living within their means and more or less guaranteed to be pushing for promotion from League One every season |
A mate is well connected at Wycombe and has known some of the board for years. This is not gospel but from what he has said, their finances are extremely tight and they are only keeping their heads above water thanks to the sale of Anis Mehmeti to Bristol City.
The fee was undisclosed but was a record for Wycombe, apparently. I think my mate said they got a million for him.
Net net WWFC are coping but it's touch and go. | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| QPR Finances released on 13:29 - Mar 2 with 2112 views | Blue_Castello |
| QPR Finances released on 11:17 - Mar 2 by slmrstid |
Also worth noting these figures are all as at 31 May 2022....which is now 9 months ago. So are very out of date already, and what they are now (or 31 May 2023 at least...) won't be known for another 12 months by which time they'll be out of date again and...so on. |
It's obvious you have had an extensive look at the accounts, I thought I saw somewhere that there was a £4 million plus write off for Warren Farm is that correct, it's certainly sad if that's true but the owners were pursuing something that everybody said was number one priority. | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 13:45 - Mar 2 with 2077 views | EastR |
| QPR Finances released on 13:29 - Mar 2 by Blue_Castello |
It's obvious you have had an extensive look at the accounts, I thought I saw somewhere that there was a £4 million plus write off for Warren Farm is that correct, it's certainly sad if that's true but the owners were pursuing something that everybody said was number one priority. |
Not seeing anything in these accounts regarding that | |
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| QPR Finances released on 14:04 - Mar 2 with 2016 views | slmrstid |
| QPR Finances released on 13:29 - Mar 2 by Blue_Castello |
It's obvious you have had an extensive look at the accounts, I thought I saw somewhere that there was a £4 million plus write off for Warren Farm is that correct, it's certainly sad if that's true but the owners were pursuing something that everybody said was number one priority. |
We wrote off costs of £4.5m relating to Warren Farm in the 31 May 2020 year end accounts. | | | |
| QPR Finances released on 14:23 - Mar 2 with 1938 views | NewBee |
| QPR Finances released on 06:51 - Mar 2 by The_Beast1976 |
I'd tell the EFL to fcuk right off, we'll spend what we want and the owners will pay it (and have provided an indemnity and bond to cover all spending), and if you come after us and attempt to deduct points or remove us from the league then we'll take you through every court (not arbitration) in the land (and Europe, where applicable) to fight for our right (as owners) to spend OUR money exactly as we wish. If the EFL don't like that then bring it fcuking on, in full view of the public, over many years. You never know, some other club's owners may even then join us.
That's what I'd do. Fcuk FFP. It's nothing but an elaborate con contrived by those at the top to keep the rich at the top and the poor downtrodden. Is my course of action irresponsible? Perhaps, but something has to be done because this whole situation with FFP is an absolute farce and ruining the game (if the Permiershite itself, with all its tv money, hadn't already ruined it). [Post edited 2 Mar 2023 7:08]
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I admire your spirit! And there is certainly merit in the argument that if club owners have the money, they should be allowed to spend it.
But when you say you would fight the EFL, who do you actually mean? the EFL isnt some detached/independent body, it is actually QPR and the other 71 members.
And since the majority of the 71 don't have wealthy backers like QPR's, or anything like it, they're not going to be happy seeing the likes of QPR just "buying" promotion ahead of them, are they?
Which is not a defence of FFP btw, just a recognition of where the power lies and who you're up against. | | | |
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