| Kwarteng’s Budget 10:33 - Sep 23 with 21812 views | PatfromPoole |
Blimey.
Suicidal stuff politically, methinks. |  |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:25 - Sep 25 with 2140 views | inthebox |
If Labour borrowed this amount of money to invest in the NHS, green energy and infrastructure there would uproar from the Tory press, but it's hand outs mostly to the rich so it's ok. |  | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:35 - Sep 25 with 2128 views | MytchettSaint |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:25 - Sep 25 by inthebox |
If Labour borrowed this amount of money to invest in the NHS, green energy and infrastructure there would uproar from the Tory press, but it's hand outs mostly to the rich so it's ok. |
Yes, if certainly seems the tories have found the magic money tree they often lambasted Labour about. |  |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 13:44 - Sep 25 with 2057 views | dirk_doone |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:25 - Sep 25 by inthebox |
If Labour borrowed this amount of money to invest in the NHS, green energy and infrastructure there would uproar from the Tory press, but it's hand outs mostly to the rich so it's ok. |
And that same press only exists by borrowing more money. Rupert Murdoch's international media empire has increased its debt from $1 billion in 1985 to $8.7 billion today. [Post edited 25 Sep 2022 13:44]
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 18:04 - Sep 25 with 1932 views | DorsetIan |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 00:59 - Sep 25 by washington_saint |
You've just proven my point.
It's nothing to do with Biden and more to do with the American mindset. For all the faults/issues it is still a place where you can be what you want to be through hard work and a modicum of luck.
And my move was for work - and I'm proud of my adopted country for all the opportunities it has given me and the fact that there is not a shaming of/jealousy for successful people and a feeling that successful people should be made to pay for those that feel they are entitled to the State looking out for them.
My parents were working class and never asked for any handout from the State. My mum's sister, on the other hand, has always sponged off the State and never done a proper days work in her 70+ years. That is the culture and sense of entitlement that will hold the UK back. |
I don't doubt the enterprise and diligence of Americans but, having spent a few weeks there this spring, f*ck me there's a lot of inequality. I couldn't walk down a street in LA without passing a homeless person. On the Greyhound bus, I felt like the new guy in prison. | |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 18:51 - Sep 25 with 1883 views | Bazza |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:24 - Sep 24 by Berber |
And many of those pension pots are made up from stocks and shares portfolios, which, having taken a 20-30% hit from Covid and Putin, now face further market devaluation as bankers further pillage the market, making trades to enhance their bonuses. Meantime, the cost of travel and oil/gas which are dollar based pricing have just got more expensive, which will increase the borrowing that we all will have to pay for.
Nobody in the world economic scene thinks these moves are the right thing, apart from the Tory right wing. Nearly all Tory MPs are multi millionaires, hmmmm, could that have anything to do with it? |
'Nearly all Tory MPs are multi millionaires, hmmmm, could that have anything to do with it?'
Really? I'd be interested in any analysis | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 19:36 - Sep 25 with 1871 views | cocklebreath |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 23:48 - Sep 25 with 1775 views | dirk_doone |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 18:51 - Sep 25 by Bazza |
'Nearly all Tory MPs are multi millionaires, hmmmm, could that have anything to do with it?'
Really? I'd be interested in any analysis |
The salary plus expenses for an MP works out at > £100,000 per annum, plus they effectively have their housing paid for. So, if you are assiduous with your finances, over a career in politics, you are going to become millionaire at least. But the big money comes later. By agreeing to help companies when they are in power, politicians are later rewarded with multi-million pound salaries as honorary board members by the companies they have helped. One of the biggest gainers from this was Margaret Thatcher who made more than $10 million from it.
For those of you who think I am picking on the Conservatives, I would add that there have been some very honest Conservatives politicians like John Major, whose only concern was doing a good job for his country. I would have preferred him to the left wing extremist, Jeremy Corbyn, every day of the week. What we really need in this country is an honest Joe like John Major or Gordon Brown, and unfortunately there aren't many of them about and even if they were, people would still probably vote for the glitzy media celebrities like Boris.
What I would really love is for us to be a country that other countries look up to and respect as being a great role model like The Netherlands and Finland. That is what we should aspire to. Instead, with our petty English, not even British nationalism and isolationism we seem intent on becoming the Northern European equivalent of Serbia.
What takes us forward as a nation is not the divisionism of the likes of Truss and Corbyn but being a UNITED kingdom and that includes Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I would welcome an honest Joe like John Major right now to get us out of the mess that extremism has led us into. [Post edited 26 Sep 2022 0:30]
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 02:03 - Sep 26 with 1752 views | 1885_SFC |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 23:48 - Sep 25 by dirk_doone |
The salary plus expenses for an MP works out at > £100,000 per annum, plus they effectively have their housing paid for. So, if you are assiduous with your finances, over a career in politics, you are going to become millionaire at least. But the big money comes later. By agreeing to help companies when they are in power, politicians are later rewarded with multi-million pound salaries as honorary board members by the companies they have helped. One of the biggest gainers from this was Margaret Thatcher who made more than $10 million from it.
For those of you who think I am picking on the Conservatives, I would add that there have been some very honest Conservatives politicians like John Major, whose only concern was doing a good job for his country. I would have preferred him to the left wing extremist, Jeremy Corbyn, every day of the week. What we really need in this country is an honest Joe like John Major or Gordon Brown, and unfortunately there aren't many of them about and even if they were, people would still probably vote for the glitzy media celebrities like Boris.
What I would really love is for us to be a country that other countries look up to and respect as being a great role model like The Netherlands and Finland. That is what we should aspire to. Instead, with our petty English, not even British nationalism and isolationism we seem intent on becoming the Northern European equivalent of Serbia.
What takes us forward as a nation is not the divisionism of the likes of Truss and Corbyn but being a UNITED kingdom and that includes Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I would welcome an honest Joe like John Major right now to get us out of the mess that extremism has led us into. [Post edited 26 Sep 2022 0:30]
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Come on dirk. Even you are not that naive. They're all at it - including your hero Tony Blair. Nothing will ever change in British politics, no matter what colour of the political spectrum you support. Thatcher may well have made £10M... but that sum pales into insignificance compared to the Blairs' £30M+ ...
https://www.counterfire.org/articles/opinion/22662-pandora-papers-the-shady-worl |  |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 02:45 - Sep 26 with 1747 views | dirk_doone |
My hero, Tony Blair??? I have never said one word in praise of him. You obviously never read my posts. He was even more smarmy than Boris. Exactly the type of politician I don't like.
Franniestache, one of the few sensible people on here when it comes to politics, summed up things very well when he said, "Brown and Major are the only two who i think truly did the job with the interests of the country at heart." The rest of them were only interested in themselves. [Post edited 26 Sep 2022 7:55]
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 07:59 - Sep 26 with 1665 views | SalisburySaint |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 18:04 - Sep 25 by DorsetIan |
I don't doubt the enterprise and diligence of Americans but, having spent a few weeks there this spring, f*ck me there's a lot of inequality. I couldn't walk down a street in LA without passing a homeless person. On the Greyhound bus, I felt like the new guy in prison. |
I saw the same regards inequality in my visit to NYC in the summer
And the poor in the US are looked after worse than in this country, which is saying something |  | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 09:16 - Sep 26 with 1599 views | saint22 |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 18:04 - Sep 25 by DorsetIan |
I don't doubt the enterprise and diligence of Americans but, having spent a few weeks there this spring, f*ck me there's a lot of inequality. I couldn't walk down a street in LA without passing a homeless person. On the Greyhound bus, I felt like the new guy in prison. |
I spend 50% of my time between the UK and US
Both have their issues both politically and morally
But this country it just gets worse and worse
Nothing works and everything costs a fortune here now more so than ever before yet the service we get deteriorates from trains to restaurants to councils to cafes to government and on
Yes LA and NY have home less issues but anyone walked round central LOndon recently?
12 years of tory rule and now brexit leaves us all screwed and no way out for a long long time | | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 11:09 - Sep 26 with 1503 views | DorsetIan |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 09:16 - Sep 26 by saint22 |
I spend 50% of my time between the UK and US
Both have their issues both politically and morally
But this country it just gets worse and worse
Nothing works and everything costs a fortune here now more so than ever before yet the service we get deteriorates from trains to restaurants to councils to cafes to government and on
Yes LA and NY have home less issues but anyone walked round central LOndon recently?
12 years of tory rule and now brexit leaves us all screwed and no way out for a long long time |
We've got a couple more years to get through yet, and my suspicion is that they're going to be even worse than what we've already seen.
Even if the casino economics that they're now adopting have the result that they hope for (in terms of increased growth), they're unlikely to do so in the short term. and there's going to be a lot more immediate pain in terms of mortgage interest rate rises and the higher cost of imports (due to the tanking pound).
Still, the lower pound means that our exports are cheaper, that might help...
...oh, silly me, we've cut outside adrift from our major export market... | |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:14 - Sep 26 with 1434 views | franniesTache |
This budget is effectively a last attempt to enrich the people who supported the ERG and libertarian fringe of the Tory party who pushed the most damaging Brexit possible through.
My gut tells me we'll have a "surprise" general election before the end the winter, the combination of this mini budget, the dislike of the new Tory whip, the threat to the seats of current Tory MP's and the generational disaster that the interest rate rises will have on middle england will force their hand.
I would be hugely surprised if this budget gets through the house as it is, and would expect a fair amount of rebellion on the Tory back benches and potentially some even crossing the house. If the new whip is true to her word then those rebels will be expelled from the party which will move Truss to something akin to a minority government.
The side effect to all this is that I think we’re seeing is the end of traditional politics.
The Union is done in my opinion, Scotland will break away and re-join the EU and probably the eurozone and I can absolutely see a unified Ireland in my lifetime too.
The Tories are now most likely out of power for a generation. Though if we move to PR then I think you’ll have momentum break away from labour and an ERG/“libertarian” party split out of the tories.
The biggest winners long term could actually be the Lib Dems because the U.K. is actually a fairly centrist county and they’ll pick up from the Blarities and from the one nation tories, though what they'll have left to govern is anyone's guess. |  | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:43 - Sep 26 with 1407 views | PatfromPoole |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:14 - Sep 26 by franniesTache |
This budget is effectively a last attempt to enrich the people who supported the ERG and libertarian fringe of the Tory party who pushed the most damaging Brexit possible through.
My gut tells me we'll have a "surprise" general election before the end the winter, the combination of this mini budget, the dislike of the new Tory whip, the threat to the seats of current Tory MP's and the generational disaster that the interest rate rises will have on middle england will force their hand.
I would be hugely surprised if this budget gets through the house as it is, and would expect a fair amount of rebellion on the Tory back benches and potentially some even crossing the house. If the new whip is true to her word then those rebels will be expelled from the party which will move Truss to something akin to a minority government.
The side effect to all this is that I think we’re seeing is the end of traditional politics.
The Union is done in my opinion, Scotland will break away and re-join the EU and probably the eurozone and I can absolutely see a unified Ireland in my lifetime too.
The Tories are now most likely out of power for a generation. Though if we move to PR then I think you’ll have momentum break away from labour and an ERG/“libertarian” party split out of the tories.
The biggest winners long term could actually be the Lib Dems because the U.K. is actually a fairly centrist county and they’ll pick up from the Blarities and from the one nation tories, though what they'll have left to govern is anyone's guess. |
The other big winner could be Johnson, dare I say it......... | |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:45 - Sep 26 with 1402 views | franniesTache |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:43 - Sep 26 by PatfromPoole |
The other big winner could be Johnson, dare I say it......... |
I can 100% see Johnson leading the Tories again, but in opposition. They won't bring him back for a general election, and i'm not convinced he'd want to come back for an election he knows he'll lose either. | | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:50 - Sep 26 with 1392 views | PaleRider |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:14 - Sep 26 by franniesTache |
This budget is effectively a last attempt to enrich the people who supported the ERG and libertarian fringe of the Tory party who pushed the most damaging Brexit possible through.
My gut tells me we'll have a "surprise" general election before the end the winter, the combination of this mini budget, the dislike of the new Tory whip, the threat to the seats of current Tory MP's and the generational disaster that the interest rate rises will have on middle england will force their hand.
I would be hugely surprised if this budget gets through the house as it is, and would expect a fair amount of rebellion on the Tory back benches and potentially some even crossing the house. If the new whip is true to her word then those rebels will be expelled from the party which will move Truss to something akin to a minority government.
The side effect to all this is that I think we’re seeing is the end of traditional politics.
The Union is done in my opinion, Scotland will break away and re-join the EU and probably the eurozone and I can absolutely see a unified Ireland in my lifetime too.
The Tories are now most likely out of power for a generation. Though if we move to PR then I think you’ll have momentum break away from labour and an ERG/“libertarian” party split out of the tories.
The biggest winners long term could actually be the Lib Dems because the U.K. is actually a fairly centrist county and they’ll pick up from the Blarities and from the one nation tories, though what they'll have left to govern is anyone's guess. |
Frannie - there's a lot of logic in this post. However, British people are notoriously traditional/conservative (with a small c), which would slow down your suggestions significantly.
The budget announced last week assumes trickle down economics works and that we can put infrastructure projects in place at light speed.
1) If trickle down economics works, how come so many working people are on benefits?
2) With our planning laws it is very difficult to do infrastructure quickly (eg the tunnel under Stonehenge).
The budget frankly does very little for people at the bottom of the economic pile right now (when it is needed) and now saying that we need more immigration from the party that pushed Brexit on the back of lower immigration and taking back control is staggeringly dishonest.
My biggest worry is that we are saddling future generations with crippling debt at the same time as our global standing is diminishing. I tried to change some sterling at the Hungarian/Serbian border in the summer and was asked "what are these" when presenting some £20 notes. When I explained what they were I was told that they only took major currencies! | | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 13:01 - Sep 26 with 1375 views | franniesTache |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 12:50 - Sep 26 by PaleRider |
Frannie - there's a lot of logic in this post. However, British people are notoriously traditional/conservative (with a small c), which would slow down your suggestions significantly.
The budget announced last week assumes trickle down economics works and that we can put infrastructure projects in place at light speed.
1) If trickle down economics works, how come so many working people are on benefits?
2) With our planning laws it is very difficult to do infrastructure quickly (eg the tunnel under Stonehenge).
The budget frankly does very little for people at the bottom of the economic pile right now (when it is needed) and now saying that we need more immigration from the party that pushed Brexit on the back of lower immigration and taking back control is staggeringly dishonest.
My biggest worry is that we are saddling future generations with crippling debt at the same time as our global standing is diminishing. I tried to change some sterling at the Hungarian/Serbian border in the summer and was asked "what are these" when presenting some £20 notes. When I explained what they were I was told that they only took major currencies! |
Yeah i agree with all that and agree the UK is conservative with a small c in the main, but i don't think the conservatives represent those people anymore (at least not currently).
The likes of Major and Clarke are seen as on the fringe of the party now (mainly because of their views on europe) and one nation Tory's like Rory Stewart are fighting a battle by themselves.
On the flip side Labour is a party completely split too, Momentum are a cult more than a movement and don't seem to understand how they alienate so many in the country, they also do huge amounts of damage by attacking their own leader.
That means the Lib Dems are probably the only party that are palatable for a lot of people, but their stance on Europe means they're almost certainly not electable with a majority.
So in the short term you'd have to expect some sort of lib/lab coalition at the next election, the upshot of which is PR.
And once PR comes in i think we see that dissolving of the traditional political parties, with minority parties like the Greens, UKIP (or whatever they're called now) and potentially an "ERG party" and "Momentum" party.
As for Scotland if a vote is given they leave. The question is will they have enough leverage with a party (most likely labour) to force that vote?
Ireland is interesting because it's moving to a favourable view of unification for the first time in a hundred years, the impact of Brexit there has been a disaster and sped that process up, and by and large it's the NHS and reliance on public sector jobs that's stopped it hitting a tipping point.
Obviously none of these things are a given, but I really don't see who in any major party has the strength, vision and policies to unify the country, address the issues and bring Scotland and Northern Ireland back into the fold.
I hope i'm wrong to be honest, because if the Union breaks i think there's a good chance the country is going to end up a minority player on the world stage and the economy shrink permanently | | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 14:06 - Sep 26 with 1323 views | DorsetIan |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 13:01 - Sep 26 by franniesTache |
Yeah i agree with all that and agree the UK is conservative with a small c in the main, but i don't think the conservatives represent those people anymore (at least not currently).
The likes of Major and Clarke are seen as on the fringe of the party now (mainly because of their views on europe) and one nation Tory's like Rory Stewart are fighting a battle by themselves.
On the flip side Labour is a party completely split too, Momentum are a cult more than a movement and don't seem to understand how they alienate so many in the country, they also do huge amounts of damage by attacking their own leader.
That means the Lib Dems are probably the only party that are palatable for a lot of people, but their stance on Europe means they're almost certainly not electable with a majority.
So in the short term you'd have to expect some sort of lib/lab coalition at the next election, the upshot of which is PR.
And once PR comes in i think we see that dissolving of the traditional political parties, with minority parties like the Greens, UKIP (or whatever they're called now) and potentially an "ERG party" and "Momentum" party.
As for Scotland if a vote is given they leave. The question is will they have enough leverage with a party (most likely labour) to force that vote?
Ireland is interesting because it's moving to a favourable view of unification for the first time in a hundred years, the impact of Brexit there has been a disaster and sped that process up, and by and large it's the NHS and reliance on public sector jobs that's stopped it hitting a tipping point.
Obviously none of these things are a given, but I really don't see who in any major party has the strength, vision and policies to unify the country, address the issues and bring Scotland and Northern Ireland back into the fold.
I hope i'm wrong to be honest, because if the Union breaks i think there's a good chance the country is going to end up a minority player on the world stage and the economy shrink permanently |
But at least we will have taken back control... | |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 15:49 - Sep 26 with 1241 views | grumpy |
Brexit was and is a disaster for this country.
Sinn Fein are in the majority in Northern Ireland and we all know what they want.
Scotland will have a majority for independence.
Wheres this trade deal with US?
Are we controlling immigration any better ?
etc etc
As for this Tory Government...................... |  | | |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 17:09 - Sep 26 with 1177 views | dirk_doone |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 15:49 - Sep 26 by grumpy |
Brexit was and is a disaster for this country.
Sinn Fein are in the majority in Northern Ireland and we all know what they want.
Scotland will have a majority for independence.
Wheres this trade deal with US?
Are we controlling immigration any better ?
etc etc
As for this Tory Government...................... |
On Sky News they are reporting that foreign investors are taking their money out of the UK.
"We all live in a Brexit submarine"
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/larry-summers-says-brexit-has-turned- | |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 17:11 - Sep 26 with 1167 views | DorsetIan |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 15:49 - Sep 26 by grumpy |
Brexit was and is a disaster for this country.
Sinn Fein are in the majority in Northern Ireland and we all know what they want.
Scotland will have a majority for independence.
Wheres this trade deal with US?
Are we controlling immigration any better ?
etc etc
As for this Tory Government...................... |
It was an audacious con and those behind it have got exactly what they always wanted with these tax cutting 'free market' ideologues now in charge.
The only thing I give them credit for is actually pulling it off. Politically, it was no mean feat to jump through all those hoops, so credit where credit is due. It's been some coup. | |
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| Kwarteng’s Budget on 17:13 - Sep 26 with 1163 views | cocklebreath |
| Kwarteng’s Budget on 15:49 - Sep 26 by grumpy |
Brexit was and is a disaster for this country.
Sinn Fein are in the majority in Northern Ireland and we all know what they want.
Scotland will have a majority for independence.
Wheres this trade deal with US?
Are we controlling immigration any better ?
etc etc
As for this Tory Government...................... |
Are there still people who think it’s a good idea? It’s an absolute fook up. I see the Bank of England will be putting up interest rates again, such fun. | |
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