| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 11:57 - Apr 3 with 1807 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 10:32 - Apr 3 by James1980 |
I'm sorry everyone. I am not trying to be deliberately controversial or a wum. I am just finding hard to fathom, why a professional football manager has not been able to identify the problems and make the changes, people, on here have seen and suggested. |
Why do you think football managers eventually end up getting sacked, James?
What's irking us is that you have had most of your questions answered many times already. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 12:10 - Apr 3 with 1778 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 10:32 - Apr 3 by James1980 |
I'm sorry everyone. I am not trying to be deliberately controversial or a wum. I am just finding hard to fathom, why a professional football manager has not been able to identify the problems and make the changes, people, on here have seen and suggested. |
We know you're not a wum, and also mindful of the feelings of isolation you've expressed during our current restrictions
But I'll attempt an answer, in the hope this can be put to bed but also with the proviso i've no more insight to what goes on in training than anyone else not directly involved
The main factor would imo be credibility. If, as a player, you've been brought into the club on the basis that the playing 'philosophy' is the only game in town; that training and match preparation are geared towards that philosophy, and the club from CEO downwards (upwards?) espouse it as a means to achieve their financial model - for the manager to then turn round and admit to doubting it'll work and therefore needs to be even partially abandoned would instantly cause a loss of credibility with the dressing room
If the players are told the manager has their backs when errors occur (such as yesterday) providing they're playing to the philosophy, its difficult for them to challenge that, even though they will have their own doubts and misgivings
At L1 level with a limited budget, the above is a recipe for the disaster being played out in front of our eyes, viewed more recently via a camera lens and hence the players and manager get no direct feedback which might have prompted change. Instead, they're literally in their bubble. Social media? We're all wums, James
Can we now stop asking about "other factors"? I hope so, because others (notably 442) have gone to great lengths to try to explain why we're bottom of the league and boring to watch despite all other factors
[Post edited 3 Apr 2021 13:15]
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 12:23 - Apr 3 with 1763 views | jpresto |
Just watched the extended highlights after missing the game yesterday. I thought we had a stone wall penalty denied at the end of the first half when Beasley lobbed the keeper and then was wiped out by him. The one on Baah was less clear cut but I think but for the Peterborough one we are not getting the rub of the green on penalties. |  | | |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 12:28 - Apr 3 with 1746 views | Mass_Debater |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 12:23 - Apr 3 by jpresto |
Just watched the extended highlights after missing the game yesterday. I thought we had a stone wall penalty denied at the end of the first half when Beasley lobbed the keeper and then was wiped out by him. The one on Baah was less clear cut but I think but for the Peterborough one we are not getting the rub of the green on penalties. |
You're the only one to mention it and it wouldn't have made any difference. Portsmouth would have still won. | | | |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 12:48 - Apr 3 with 1697 views | 442Dale |
On the style of football, not sure if anyone has seen Huddersfield’s goal against Brentford a couple of minutes ago on Sky but it illustrates perfectly how this new way of playing is becoming somewhat of a running joke.
Brentford defender under pressure on edge of his own box with five Huddersfield players in the last third of the pitch. If he gets rid over the top it would see a foot race as Town were defending inside the Brentford half. Instead he goes short ten yards to a player under pressure and seconds later they’re a goal down.
Don’t let anyone tell you this philosophy is a good one. |  |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 12:57 - Apr 3 with 1668 views | Hopwoodblue |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 10:44 - Apr 3 by 442Dale |
Think the answer to that is illustrated in interviews and what was said at the forum. The management staff believe they know best. Don’t think it’s anything more complicated than that.
Is it hard to believe and difficult to accept as a supporter? Yes. Unfortunately, that’s the situation we are in. |
Think it’s also arrogance, a different type to Hill a lot worse in a way because Hill was successful for most of his time at Dale.
Quotes like “I don’t look at the league table” what’s all that about ?
Maybe if we are at the top end and don’t want to get complacent about winning, but I would pin the league table on the wall to remind the players what a mess we are in.
We need hungry loanee’s who want to work and earn a contract not young players from the prem who have probably never heard of Rochdale and once May comes couldn’t care less what happens us. Give me a decent league one player any day working hard to earn a contract to look after his family. |  |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 13:31 - Apr 3 with 1580 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 12:48 - Apr 3 by 442Dale |
On the style of football, not sure if anyone has seen Huddersfield’s goal against Brentford a couple of minutes ago on Sky but it illustrates perfectly how this new way of playing is becoming somewhat of a running joke.
Brentford defender under pressure on edge of his own box with five Huddersfield players in the last third of the pitch. If he gets rid over the top it would see a foot race as Town were defending inside the Brentford half. Instead he goes short ten yards to a player under pressure and seconds later they’re a goal down.
Don’t let anyone tell you this philosophy is a good one. |
And they're held up as an example of what we're aspiring to.
It's OK if you've got the likes of Toney up front as there's always a chance of getting one or two back. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 13:43 - Apr 3 with 1558 views | Nafelad |
The main error in team selection yesterday was to play Done as wing back. In recent matches he played in the front liine, and results were better. With Humphreys missing again, I think it would have been vital to play him up front yesterday. |  |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:01 - Apr 3 with 1517 views | James1980 |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 12:10 - Apr 3 by D_Alien |
We know you're not a wum, and also mindful of the feelings of isolation you've expressed during our current restrictions
But I'll attempt an answer, in the hope this can be put to bed but also with the proviso i've no more insight to what goes on in training than anyone else not directly involved
The main factor would imo be credibility. If, as a player, you've been brought into the club on the basis that the playing 'philosophy' is the only game in town; that training and match preparation are geared towards that philosophy, and the club from CEO downwards (upwards?) espouse it as a means to achieve their financial model - for the manager to then turn round and admit to doubting it'll work and therefore needs to be even partially abandoned would instantly cause a loss of credibility with the dressing room
If the players are told the manager has their backs when errors occur (such as yesterday) providing they're playing to the philosophy, its difficult for them to challenge that, even though they will have their own doubts and misgivings
At L1 level with a limited budget, the above is a recipe for the disaster being played out in front of our eyes, viewed more recently via a camera lens and hence the players and manager get no direct feedback which might have prompted change. Instead, they're literally in their bubble. Social media? We're all wums, James
Can we now stop asking about "other factors"? I hope so, because others (notably 442) have gone to great lengths to try to explain why we're bottom of the league and boring to watch despite all other factors
[Post edited 3 Apr 2021 13:15]
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I know I may not come across as doing so but I do understand what you guys are saying. My concern is that if the issues are in part any way due to an overriding club 'philosophy plus OF's. There is a chance history will continue to repeat itself, regardless of who is the first team manager. | |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:04 - Apr 3 with 1498 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:01 - Apr 3 by James1980 |
I know I may not come across as doing so but I do understand what you guys are saying. My concern is that if the issues are in part any way due to an overriding club 'philosophy plus OF's. There is a chance history will continue to repeat itself, regardless of who is the first team manager. |
Not necessarily (and I've posted this before) because a different manager can make things work with the same players.
See Keith Hill, December 2006, as a prime example. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:25 - Apr 3 with 1454 views | electricblue |
Big Sam is the man.......
He likes a challenge and if WBA let him go in the summer get him in.. |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:27 - Apr 3 with 1450 views | SaxonDale |
Not sure how freely we would be able to change our playing style. If we’re to believe what was said at the forum as true then we’ve only being able to afford a half-competitive squad due to the heavily discounted loan signings we’ve collected from Prem clubs. If the wage contributions are as little as suggested at the forum (1/3 of a L1 players?) then I presume that will be heavily claused on us playing the style of football we do- mainly to serve the purpose of getting these kids as ready for their parent clubs as possible. Wouldn’t be surprised if a change in playing style now would hurt any chance of signing loanees on a low wage again, which given the financial problems we have might be key.
I’d say one of our main problems this season has been the calibre of the loan signings themselves (again potentially due to Covid). With the exception of Ohso, who I suspect we have more freedom over, I think all our other loanees have probably ended up in League 1 a season too early. |  | | |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:37 - Apr 3 with 1418 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:25 - Apr 3 by electricblue |
Big Sam is the man.......
He likes a challenge and if WBA let him go in the summer get him in.. |
Good effort. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:38 - Apr 3 with 1415 views | 49thseason |
The lack of two decent fullbacks is what has has ruined the entire season. Every team we play attacks down our left hand side knowing they will get crosses into the box, we have no answer to it and to be honest we are not much better if they attack down our right side. The club has a surfeit of midfielders and we are short of bodies in just about every other department. Asking midfielders to become forwards and fullbacks is simply papering over the cracks in the recruitment policy. We would be no worse off if we had played Dunne at left back all season and as for the decision to re-sign sicknote McLaughlin... words fail me, when he plays he is decent but it seems like the merest knock and he is out for weeks.
So at the January window, we managed to find 2 midfielders and 2 forwards both of whom have been injured more or less ever since. Oh! and a defender who isn't a fullback. This is madness! Did they think no one would figure this out? How many games have we conceded within the first few minutes? Why do they start games as though they have all just put on lead divers boots? Why do we attack with all the pace of a sleepy sloth? What is the point of bothering to train if none of it gets applied on the pitch?
This team needs a good kick in the slats about 10 minutes before kick off just to waken them up. BBM is probably a very pleasant and decent bloke but does he have the ability to fire up a team that has got used to failure? |  | | |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:43 - Apr 3 with 1408 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:27 - Apr 3 by SaxonDale |
Not sure how freely we would be able to change our playing style. If we’re to believe what was said at the forum as true then we’ve only being able to afford a half-competitive squad due to the heavily discounted loan signings we’ve collected from Prem clubs. If the wage contributions are as little as suggested at the forum (1/3 of a L1 players?) then I presume that will be heavily claused on us playing the style of football we do- mainly to serve the purpose of getting these kids as ready for their parent clubs as possible. Wouldn’t be surprised if a change in playing style now would hurt any chance of signing loanees on a low wage again, which given the financial problems we have might be key.
I’d say one of our main problems this season has been the calibre of the loan signings themselves (again potentially due to Covid). With the exception of Ohso, who I suspect we have more freedom over, I think all our other loanees have probably ended up in League 1 a season too early. |
But if that's the case, then clubs who play a different style to us would be struggling to get loans in, particularly those in League Two.
When I watch Quest every week, it's very apparent how many loan players are involved with all clubs. Even on last night's show, Cheltenham had a lad on loan from Leicester who scored a fantastic volley v Tranmere.
I've no idea how Cheltenham play the game, but they've obviously sought and found available loan players who have helped them get to second in League Two.
I'm sure there are plenty of players out there who would be able to fit into whatever style we choose, but finding them is one of the challenges. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:48 - Apr 3 with 1411 views | James1980 |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:38 - Apr 3 by 49thseason |
The lack of two decent fullbacks is what has has ruined the entire season. Every team we play attacks down our left hand side knowing they will get crosses into the box, we have no answer to it and to be honest we are not much better if they attack down our right side. The club has a surfeit of midfielders and we are short of bodies in just about every other department. Asking midfielders to become forwards and fullbacks is simply papering over the cracks in the recruitment policy. We would be no worse off if we had played Dunne at left back all season and as for the decision to re-sign sicknote McLaughlin... words fail me, when he plays he is decent but it seems like the merest knock and he is out for weeks.
So at the January window, we managed to find 2 midfielders and 2 forwards both of whom have been injured more or less ever since. Oh! and a defender who isn't a fullback. This is madness! Did they think no one would figure this out? How many games have we conceded within the first few minutes? Why do they start games as though they have all just put on lead divers boots? Why do we attack with all the pace of a sleepy sloth? What is the point of bothering to train if none of it gets applied on the pitch?
This team needs a good kick in the slats about 10 minutes before kick off just to waken them up. BBM is probably a very pleasant and decent bloke but does he have the ability to fire up a team that has got used to failure? |
Did anyone ask the question 'why was Mclaughlin re-signed given his injury record?' prior to or during the forum? I don't recall an answer to that question. | |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 15:09 - Apr 3 with 1366 views | Dalenet |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:48 - Apr 3 by James1980 |
Did anyone ask the question 'why was Mclaughlin re-signed given his injury record?' prior to or during the forum? I don't recall an answer to that question. |
I don't know whether Robert Hulme had that on his list. The rest of us didn't get a sniff on the night. | | | |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 15:34 - Apr 3 with 1319 views | 49thseason |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:48 - Apr 3 by James1980 |
Did anyone ask the question 'why was Mclaughlin re-signed given his injury record?' prior to or during the forum? I don't recall an answer to that question. |
It should never have been a question because he should never have been re-signed. Except perhaps as an understudy. He has started 15 league games and been subbed off in 3 of those, his best run of games is 3 starts and subbed off after 87 minutes in the 3rd game. His best season was in 2016/17 when he played 36 games for Oldham. Since then he has managed 16 in 17/18, 25 in 18/19 (6 for Blackpool), and just 3 last season. In his last 8 seasons including this one he has averaged 15 games per season. or 1 in 3.
And its not so much the fact of the number of games he plays but that he cannot put a 10 or 15 game, injury -free, run together. the constant chopping and changing of fullbacks on both sides of the pitch means there is little stability in the wide areas. as our goals against tally proves. | | | |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 15:42 - Apr 3 with 1307 views | SaxonDale |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:43 - Apr 3 by TVOS1907 |
But if that's the case, then clubs who play a different style to us would be struggling to get loans in, particularly those in League Two.
When I watch Quest every week, it's very apparent how many loan players are involved with all clubs. Even on last night's show, Cheltenham had a lad on loan from Leicester who scored a fantastic volley v Tranmere.
I've no idea how Cheltenham play the game, but they've obviously sought and found available loan players who have helped them get to second in League Two.
I'm sure there are plenty of players out there who would be able to fit into whatever style we choose, but finding them is one of the challenges. |
Agreed TVOS, but could be a case of them paying a higher contribution in wages. I reckon there’s some players who although better at the time, they know will not make it into the first team so care less about them learning ‘bad habits’ and as such will just try get a decent wage for them.
Obviously this is all speculation and I definitely agree that there’s better players on loan at other clubs. | | | |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 16:13 - Apr 3 with 1246 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:48 - Apr 3 by James1980 |
Did anyone ask the question 'why was Mclaughlin re-signed given his injury record?' prior to or during the forum? I don't recall an answer to that question. |
No | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 16:33 - Apr 3 with 1185 views | James1980 |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 14:04 - Apr 3 by TVOS1907 |
Not necessarily (and I've posted this before) because a different manager can make things work with the same players.
See Keith Hill, December 2006, as a prime example. |
A bit like the current manager 'made things work' when he took over. | |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 17:00 - Apr 3 with 1141 views | 442Dale |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 16:33 - Apr 3 by James1980 |
A bit like the current manager 'made things work' when he took over. |
Which everyone acknowledges. It’s what makes what has happened since even more disappointing. | |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 17:04 - Apr 3 with 1131 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 16:33 - Apr 3 by James1980 |
A bit like the current manager 'made things work' when he took over. |
Aye, two years ago.
Things have moved on since then. Or not, as the case may be. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 17:14 - Apr 3 with 1105 views | 442Dale |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 17:04 - Apr 3 by TVOS1907 |
Aye, two years ago.
Things have moved on since then. Or not, as the case may be. |
Some stats...
18/19 after BBM took over: 6 wins in 11 games. 20 points
The two seasons since: 17 wins in 71 games. 68 points.
Home form stats...
18/19 4 wins in 6 games, one defeat. 13 points.
Two seasons since: 6 wins in 34 games . 30 points
Conclusion: the way we played at the end of the 18/19 was a far more effective way of playing. It has also been witnessed in individual games since with similar success - Rotherham at home being the most obvious and glaring example. Those are the facts. [Post edited 3 Apr 2021 17:22]
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| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 19:17 - Apr 3 with 1474 views | boromat |
| Match Thread: Portsmouth vs Rochdale on 13:43 - Apr 3 by Nafelad |
The main error in team selection yesterday was to play Done as wing back. In recent matches he played in the front liine, and results were better. With Humphreys missing again, I think it would have been vital to play him up front yesterday. |
I was really looking forward to seeing Beasley and Done up top. They wouldn't have given the defenders any time and made a right pain of themselves. I don't see Baah as a central striker at the moment he needs to play deeper and be able to run at defenders you get more opportunities to do that out wide. | |
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