| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread 18:11 - Jun 18 with 16274 views | bluey_the_blue |
Runners and riders...
Boris Johnson - 126
Jeremy Hunt — 46
Michael Gove — 41
Dominic Raab — 30
Sajid Javid — 33
Rory Stewart — 37
Definite tactical voting went on there; Raab out which is to surprise to anyone.
Stewart's still in there, not made any major gain though with all still to play for. [Post edited 18 Jun 2019 18:17]
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 13:51 - Jun 19 with 1520 views | bluey_the_blue |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 11:56 - Jun 19 by Batterseajack |
What an utter scumbag. He must be somewhat aware he was a scumbag because he deactivated his toxic twitter feed so he could get on yesterdays debate without the BBC vetting him out. |
Was deputy head at a girls school.
His twitter feed was deactivated on Monday, now deleted. People were replying to his tweets over the weekend.
Given BBC are claiming they didn't see the tweets due to it being deactivated,then at best they only vetted the questioners the day of the show, which is p1ss poor.
Add in a tweet from another caller - "Hitler's abuse of the term nationalism is, to me a nationalist, the most harmful part of his legacy" - who was hired to work in Labours complaints department, working on anti-semitism cases - I suspect Rob Burley et al will be looking for alternate work soon enough. [Post edited 19 Jun 2019 13:52]
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:06 - Jun 19 with 1484 views | londonlisa2001 |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 10:16 - Jun 19 by Nookiejack |
It's always a balance - between incentives to motivate people and social responsibility.
When you look at income tax rates you also need to add national insurance contributions. One then also has to think about effects over the next few years of students with say £60k of student loans who if they exceed a certain threshold of income - will be paying additional 9% tax.
Given I understand 50% of young people are going to University now - this is going to have an increasing impact on the economy in respect of disposable income.
Even at the top end for example if you earn between £100,000 and circa £120,000 your effective tax rate is already 60% because you lose your personal allowance - but then say add 2% for National insurance and then say 9% for student loanns (as respective students come through) likely to be paying 71% tax.
Not much incentive then for people to take leadership positions with stress and strains that this involved. Unless you are in ii for power not income for your family.
We probably don't want to tax people even more - we seem to be taxed significantly already. |
“Even at the top end for example if you earn between £100,000 and circa £120,000 your effective tax rate is already 60% because you lose your personal allowance - but then say add 2% for National insurance and then say 9% for student loanns (as respective students come through) likely to be paying 71% tax. “
You seem to be misunderstanding the difference between your marginal tax rate and your effective tax rate.
Which is pretty important. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:07 - Jun 19 with 1484 views | londonlisa2001 |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 08:18 - Jun 19 by bluey_the_blue |
Lower corporation tax rates have led to higher corporation tax revenue. Push rates high,revenues fall as people look to avoid aggressively. |
That’s overly simplistic. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:13 - Jun 19 with 1480 views | londonlisa2001 |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 13:51 - Jun 19 by bluey_the_blue |
Was deputy head at a girls school.
His twitter feed was deactivated on Monday, now deleted. People were replying to his tweets over the weekend.
Given BBC are claiming they didn't see the tweets due to it being deactivated,then at best they only vetted the questioners the day of the show, which is p1ss poor.
Add in a tweet from another caller - "Hitler's abuse of the term nationalism is, to me a nationalist, the most harmful part of his legacy" - who was hired to work in Labours complaints department, working on anti-semitism cases - I suspect Rob Burley et al will be looking for alternate work soon enough. [Post edited 19 Jun 2019 13:52]
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They checked the twitter accounts on Monday. They’ve already said that.
When this bloke’s account was unavailable.
The vetting should have been done properly, but actually there should have been no need for it anyway as the programme shouldn’t have had random people asking questions. The format was dreadful.
Which doesn’t detract from the awful standard of the candidates either. None of whom could answer a question about the central plank of their policy. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:19 - Jun 19 with 1479 views | bluey_the_blue |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:13 - Jun 19 by londonlisa2001 |
They checked the twitter accounts on Monday. They’ve already said that.
When this bloke’s account was unavailable.
The vetting should have been done properly, but actually there should have been no need for it anyway as the programme shouldn’t have had random people asking questions. The format was dreadful.
Which doesn’t detract from the awful standard of the candidates either. None of whom could answer a question about the central plank of their policy. |
Agree on all of that for the most part,Lisa.
Checking the day of the show was fvcking stupid. Given BBC have admitted they knew the final questioner had worked at the heart of Labour HQ and still had him on the show,it was BBC incompetence.
The format was crap, Maitlis was woeful managing it, at time looking for a big "gotcha!" moment rather than managing a debate. Andrew Neil would have been a far better host.
BBC have blown any chance of hosting the final debate. It'll be ITV or Sky.
As for the candidates, I'd tend to agree whilst also pointing out the quality of debate was trashed by the format. It seemed the mantra was to talk over Javid.
That's why I'm opposed to anything other than 1 to 1 debates. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:27 - Jun 19 with 1462 views | londonlisa2001 |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:19 - Jun 19 by bluey_the_blue |
Agree on all of that for the most part,Lisa.
Checking the day of the show was fvcking stupid. Given BBC have admitted they knew the final questioner had worked at the heart of Labour HQ and still had him on the show,it was BBC incompetence.
The format was crap, Maitlis was woeful managing it, at time looking for a big "gotcha!" moment rather than managing a debate. Andrew Neil would have been a far better host.
BBC have blown any chance of hosting the final debate. It'll be ITV or Sky.
As for the candidates, I'd tend to agree whilst also pointing out the quality of debate was trashed by the format. It seemed the mantra was to talk over Javid.
That's why I'm opposed to anything other than 1 to 1 debates. |
They checked the day before.
Andrew Neil seems to think he’s doing the final two.
The biggest issue was that the candidates these days are happy to just sit there and lie. And don’t get called on it. Andrew Neil is unlikely to let them do that. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:38 - Jun 19 with 1459 views | bluey_the_blue |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:27 - Jun 19 by londonlisa2001 |
They checked the day before.
Andrew Neil seems to think he’s doing the final two.
The biggest issue was that the candidates these days are happy to just sit there and lie. And don’t get called on it. Andrew Neil is unlikely to let them do that. |
D'oh, keep thinking it's a day earlier than it is.
That's still silly though.
Neil may seem to think he's doing it but it won't be for BBC. Sod the anti-semitism Imam, allowing someone who worked for Labour on knowing he'd done that craps all over any semblance of partiality.
EDIT: It's not the first time either. Several news reports have featured a nurse, Danielle. One showed her meeting Corbyn. Said nurse Danielle is in fact Danielle Tiplady,not only a Labour activist but also "writer" for Morning Star! She was also shortlisted as a Labour candidate for Thurrock back in 2017.
Either BBC vetting is crap or they simply don't care. [Post edited 19 Jun 2019 14:43]
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:45 - Jun 19 with 1444 views | sherpajacob |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:06 - Jun 19 by londonlisa2001 |
“Even at the top end for example if you earn between £100,000 and circa £120,000 your effective tax rate is already 60% because you lose your personal allowance - but then say add 2% for National insurance and then say 9% for student loanns (as respective students come through) likely to be paying 71% tax. “
You seem to be misunderstanding the difference between your marginal tax rate and your effective tax rate.
Which is pretty important. |
Also someone on £120k can simply put £20k into their pension and get effectively 60% tax relief. |  |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:51 - Jun 19 with 1431 views | sherpajacob |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 13:51 - Jun 19 by bluey_the_blue |
Was deputy head at a girls school.
His twitter feed was deactivated on Monday, now deleted. People were replying to his tweets over the weekend.
Given BBC are claiming they didn't see the tweets due to it being deactivated,then at best they only vetted the questioners the day of the show, which is p1ss poor.
Add in a tweet from another caller - "Hitler's abuse of the term nationalism is, to me a nationalist, the most harmful part of his legacy" - who was hired to work in Labours complaints department, working on anti-semitism cases - I suspect Rob Burley et al will be looking for alternate work soon enough. [Post edited 19 Jun 2019 13:52]
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Whatever the issues with the individual, his question was a valid one.
If Maitlis had simply read out questions sent in by the public, including his, would there be a,problem.?
No one would have known the identity of the questioner, and would have a applauded the question. | |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:59 - Jun 19 with 1412 views | londonlisa2001 |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:38 - Jun 19 by bluey_the_blue |
D'oh, keep thinking it's a day earlier than it is.
That's still silly though.
Neil may seem to think he's doing it but it won't be for BBC. Sod the anti-semitism Imam, allowing someone who worked for Labour on knowing he'd done that craps all over any semblance of partiality.
EDIT: It's not the first time either. Several news reports have featured a nurse, Danielle. One showed her meeting Corbyn. Said nurse Danielle is in fact Danielle Tiplady,not only a Labour activist but also "writer" for Morning Star! She was also shortlisted as a Labour candidate for Thurrock back in 2017.
Either BBC vetting is crap or they simply don't care. [Post edited 19 Jun 2019 14:43]
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Why does someone working for Labour matter in a debate between all conservatives?
An accusation of impartiality is relevant if it’s a cross party debate, but I’d they’re all Tories I’m struggling to see the impact.
They obviously had a list of questions they wanted answered so leaving aside the usual dumbing down of requiring some random to ask them over a link rather than the interviewer asking them it has no impact. To an extent the same is true of the Imam. The issue there is giving a platform to a scumbag rape apologist, not that the question was influenced by it.
A load of BBC programmes have UKIP and Brexit party plants all over them as well. QT is known for it. The BBC are simply incompetent, not biased towards Labour.
Again, the issue is that 5 candidates to be PM sat there and lied. Repeatedly.
I’m far more concerned btw about the bigotry of the person likely to win than the bigotry of the Imam. One has a genuine impact on the rest of us. One doesn’t to any large extent. The hypocrisy amongst Tory members is breathtaking. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 15:00 - Jun 19 with 1422 views | costalotta |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:45 - Jun 19 by sherpajacob |
Also someone on £120k can simply put £20k into their pension and get effectively 60% tax relief. |
They can put up to 40k into a pension and get 20% tax relief, which is 8k (on the 40). |  | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 15:02 - Jun 19 with 1413 views | bluey_the_blue |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 14:51 - Jun 19 by sherpajacob |
Whatever the issues with the individual, his question was a valid one.
If Maitlis had simply read out questions sent in by the public, including his, would there be a,problem.?
No one would have known the identity of the questioner, and would have a applauded the question. |
The issue is more that the backgrounds of both dodgy questioners weren't vetted correctly or deemed relevant to the BBC.
The motivation behind that question is the key thing. The Imam hypocritically raised it for no reason other than it's a Corbynista mantra - "our anti-semitism? Well, errm, uhhh... hey! Look at the Tories! They are Islamophobic!". Any instances of Islamophobia are of course disgusting as are instances of anti-semitism, any other racism.
Both the two dodgy questioners have been suspended from their jobs. Quite right too. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 15:33 - Jun 19 with 1377 views | londonlisa2001 |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 15:02 - Jun 19 by bluey_the_blue |
The issue is more that the backgrounds of both dodgy questioners weren't vetted correctly or deemed relevant to the BBC.
The motivation behind that question is the key thing. The Imam hypocritically raised it for no reason other than it's a Corbynista mantra - "our anti-semitism? Well, errm, uhhh... hey! Look at the Tories! They are Islamophobic!". Any instances of Islamophobia are of course disgusting as are instances of anti-semitism, any other racism.
Both the two dodgy questioners have been suspended from their jobs. Quite right too. |
The question on islamophobia had nothing to do with Corbyn.
It was relevant because one of the candidates has made grossly offensive statements against Muslim women and also because the President retweeted Islamophobic comments from Hopkins last week in his ongoing vendetta against Khan (because he’s a Muslim) and the candidates have been falling over themselves to support it.
You’re glad that the Imam has been suspended (and rightly so), but why hasn’t Johnson been suspended from his position? It’s just the same.
As I said, the hypocrisy is sickening. The people bleating about the Imam will be voting for a f*cking bigot to be prime minister. Hardly any of them actually care about anti semitism. It’s just a stick to beat Corbyn with. And it’s a deflection technique used to attempt to move the discussion away from how truly awful all candidates were. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 15:50 - Jun 19 with 1375 views | Darran |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 15:33 - Jun 19 by londonlisa2001 |
The question on islamophobia had nothing to do with Corbyn.
It was relevant because one of the candidates has made grossly offensive statements against Muslim women and also because the President retweeted Islamophobic comments from Hopkins last week in his ongoing vendetta against Khan (because he’s a Muslim) and the candidates have been falling over themselves to support it.
You’re glad that the Imam has been suspended (and rightly so), but why hasn’t Johnson been suspended from his position? It’s just the same.
As I said, the hypocrisy is sickening. The people bleating about the Imam will be voting for a f*cking bigot to be prime minister. Hardly any of them actually care about anti semitism. It’s just a stick to beat Corbyn with. And it’s a deflection technique used to attempt to move the discussion away from how truly awful all candidates were. |
100% correct though perhaps Trump wouldn’t have retweeted anything about Khan if Khan hadn’t have tweeted about him first. |  |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 15:55 - Jun 19 with 1366 views | Darran |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:00 - Jun 19 with 1348 views | londonlisa2001 |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 15:50 - Jun 19 by Darran |
100% correct though perhaps Trump wouldn’t have retweeted anything about Khan if Khan hadn’t have tweeted about him first. |
From memory I think it started when Trump said something about terrorist attacks in London and made out Khan had said something he hadn’t. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:01 - Jun 19 with 1346 views | londonlisa2001 |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 15:55 - Jun 19 by Darran |
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Allison Pearson is so far up Boris’ backside it’s a wonder she can tweet. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:04 - Jun 19 with 1352 views | Humpty |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 15:33 - Jun 19 by londonlisa2001 |
The question on islamophobia had nothing to do with Corbyn.
It was relevant because one of the candidates has made grossly offensive statements against Muslim women and also because the President retweeted Islamophobic comments from Hopkins last week in his ongoing vendetta against Khan (because he’s a Muslim) and the candidates have been falling over themselves to support it.
You’re glad that the Imam has been suspended (and rightly so), but why hasn’t Johnson been suspended from his position? It’s just the same.
As I said, the hypocrisy is sickening. The people bleating about the Imam will be voting for a f*cking bigot to be prime minister. Hardly any of them actually care about anti semitism. It’s just a stick to beat Corbyn with. And it’s a deflection technique used to attempt to move the discussion away from how truly awful all candidates were. |
I think only Hunt actually supported what Trump said. |  | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:07 - Jun 19 with 1348 views | Darran |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:01 - Jun 19 by londonlisa2001 |
Allison Pearson is so far up Boris’ backside it’s a wonder she can tweet. |
Is it not true then? | |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:15 - Jun 19 with 1336 views | londonlisa2001 |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:04 - Jun 19 by Humpty |
I think only Hunt actually supported what Trump said. |
Stewart refused to criticise it as well when he was asked. He then changed his position and asked the other candidates to criticise it. None of them did, although Javid had already done so. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:16 - Jun 19 with 1334 views | londonlisa2001 |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:07 - Jun 19 by Darran |
Is it not true then? |
Is what not true? | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:20 - Jun 19 with 1334 views | Darran |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:16 - Jun 19 by londonlisa2001 |
Is what not true? |
What Allison said. | |
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| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:27 - Jun 19 with 1331 views | Nookiejack |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 10:59 - Jun 19 by costalotta |
Which one are you talking about? Tax, Debt or disposable income? The 9% tax is debt repayment you nutter!
Not saying taxes should be increased or lowered. If anything Gove had good idea with VAT. No business to business to VAT. Makes business more competitive, which we will need for sure if no deal happens.
A very good friend of mine earns just under 120k so i called him just now and asked his take home. reckons he its about 80k ish. So he's taxed about 34% .
71% Lol. |
Sorry that wasn’t a good post of mine. (Lisa has corrected me)
I was trying to make the point that you lose your £1 of personal allowance for every £2 above £100,000.
The personal allowance is currently £12,500 so if you earn £125,000 you pay an effective tax rate of 60% between £100,000 and £125,000.
You will then pay 2% Employees National Insurance.
You can argue whether the 9% is a loan repayment. It is linked to income though and deducted through PAYE. So you will pay 9% on any element > £26k through PAYE.
So between £100,000 and £125,000 = 60% + 2% + 9% = 71%.
You take home 29p in the £.
I accept the point that Sherpa makes about pension contributions - however you do pay income tax when you then draw your pension out.
Also with house prices being so expensive are people likely to be putting significant amounts in their pension - more likely to be paying their mortgages off. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:35 - Jun 19 with 1314 views | Humpty |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:15 - Jun 19 by londonlisa2001 |
Stewart refused to criticise it as well when he was asked. He then changed his position and asked the other candidates to criticise it. None of them did, although Javid had already done so. |
Yes what Stewart said was pathetic. | | | |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 16:45 - Jun 19 with 1302 views | Highjack |
| *OFFICIAL* BBC Tory leadership debate thread on 15:33 - Jun 19 by londonlisa2001 |
The question on islamophobia had nothing to do with Corbyn.
It was relevant because one of the candidates has made grossly offensive statements against Muslim women and also because the President retweeted Islamophobic comments from Hopkins last week in his ongoing vendetta against Khan (because he’s a Muslim) and the candidates have been falling over themselves to support it.
You’re glad that the Imam has been suspended (and rightly so), but why hasn’t Johnson been suspended from his position? It’s just the same.
As I said, the hypocrisy is sickening. The people bleating about the Imam will be voting for a f*cking bigot to be prime minister. Hardly any of them actually care about anti semitism. It’s just a stick to beat Corbyn with. And it’s a deflection technique used to attempt to move the discussion away from how truly awful all candidates were. |
His comments about the niqab were fine. They do look ridiculous.
He’s made far worse comments in the past about watermelon smiles etc, and the arranging to get a journalist beaten up should automatically get him barred from public office. |  |
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