| Pets at Home store 11:30 - Jul 7 with 12407 views | Lord_Bony |
Warra pelava.
I only wanted to buy a shrimp for the bottom of my fish tank to help keep it clean. I was in a rush with people waiting in the car outside. It took 20 minutes for them to get the shrimp and I had to wait for someone to come with a questionnaire.it cost £3.
I was then grilled for several minutes with questions such as...
How many fish are in the tank? What fish are they? How long have you had them? What is the water capacity of the tank? Will you be taking the shrimp home immediateley?Etc. Name,address,phone number,email feck me it went on and on...
I told the assistant I'm buying a shrimp not adopting a dog for life ffs.
After all that the shrimp seems to have disappeared in the tank.
Is all this political correctness really necessary? I mean we eat shrimps by the bucket load.
I've a good mind to write to my M.P. |  |
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| Pets at Home store on 22:42 - Jul 9 with 1439 views | Drizzy |
It's clear that pigs are intelligent species but to compare their cognition to that of an average three-year-old child is ludicrous. That's ignoring outliers such as those with obvious mental defects, as this thread shows.
Also just a reminder to anyone reading not to take the findings of a YouTube video as gospel and to actually conduct your own research in a debate because you may find flaws in your argument.
We were unable to corroborate the findings by Broom et al. (2009). In the mirror test performed following his protocol as closely as possible, i.e. in group 1, only two of the mirror exposed pigs crossed line 1 and found the hidden food reward. We take this observation as evidence that the majority of the pigs in the present experiment did not understand what the mirror image represents, and that they did not use the mirror to locate the food."
Given our results and the points of discussion mentioned above, we conclude that effective use of information provided by a mirror may not be an ability shared by all pigs of this age and/or pig lines."
https://www.appliedanimalbehaviour.com/article/S0168-1591(14)00079-3/fulltext [Post edited 9 Jul 2018 22:43]
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| Pets at Home store on 23:10 - Jul 9 with 1422 views | Highjack |
| Pets at Home store on 01:25 - Jul 9 by Humpty |
Just out of interest what are the creatures that are more intelligent than pigs? |
Apart from 3 year old children, most primates, canines, elephants, wolves, whales, crows, some pigeons, |  |
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| Pets at Home store on 01:44 - Jul 10 with 1383 views | E20Jack |
| Pets at Home store on 22:42 - Jul 9 by Drizzy |
It's clear that pigs are intelligent species but to compare their cognition to that of an average three-year-old child is ludicrous. That's ignoring outliers such as those with obvious mental defects, as this thread shows.
Also just a reminder to anyone reading not to take the findings of a YouTube video as gospel and to actually conduct your own research in a debate because you may find flaws in your argument.
We were unable to corroborate the findings by Broom et al. (2009). In the mirror test performed following his protocol as closely as possible, i.e. in group 1, only two of the mirror exposed pigs crossed line 1 and found the hidden food reward. We take this observation as evidence that the majority of the pigs in the present experiment did not understand what the mirror image represents, and that they did not use the mirror to locate the food."
Given our results and the points of discussion mentioned above, we conclude that effective use of information provided by a mirror may not be an ability shared by all pigs of this age and/or pig lines."
https://www.appliedanimalbehaviour.com/article/S0168-1591(14)00079-3/fulltext [Post edited 9 Jul 2018 22:43]
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Oh look out, Keiron has gotten all excited again.
1) I didn’t use a YouTube video, someone else posted that, pay attention (and pay me the £100 you owe me too).
2) My argument is not the rank of pigs on an intellectual scale, that was a side issue based on the the work done by Professor Broom in a variety of papers, work I absolutely support. My argument (not really an argument just complete common sense) is that sentient, emotional and intelligent beings being needlessly and violently slaughtered in their billions is abhorrebtly cruel and senseless. I guess you focussed on the other bit to give you a bit of traction? Rank can always be debated.
But anyway, comparing cognition across species is always very tricky concept as each species differs in their range of abilities and also so do the tests (if you had read the thread instead of seeing my name and getting all excited then you would know that) hence why others cannot conclusively agree (not that they disagree, important point).
However, you can personally disagree of course, but unless you show me your findings (which you can’t) then I will have to take your view as yet another boring Keiron excitement post.
Not that I think that it any way matters however. As a vegan I don’t have the bizarre notion as others do that intelligence (or perceived intelligence) gives one being a right to its life and another deserving to have it violently taken away, completely needlessly too as I taught you last time we discussed this topic and you needed up having to donate to vegan activists. Remember?
 [Post edited 10 Jul 2018 2:16]
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| Pets at Home store on 05:42 - Jul 10 with 1347 views | Thursday |
Life is only sustained by the extinction of other life. Where people decide to draw that line, if it is culturally acceptable, is up to them.
This is quite possibly why the sale of a shrimp can be a most difficult internal struggle for a Pets At Home associate. Affirmative action through a vegetarian workforce. They should have compromised with pescetarians. |  | | |
| Pets at Home store on 07:04 - Jul 10 with 1321 views | E20Jack |
The irony of that of course being that the destruction of other life is also destroying our own. I say “our” in the loosest possible terms of course. | |
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| Pets at Home store on 10:00 - Jul 10 with 1285 views | TheFranchise |
I'm going to start eating vegans |  | | |
| Pets at Home store on 10:28 - Jul 10 with 1271 views | Daggyjack |
I'm glad that Pets at Home and their staff care about their animals / fish as much as they do rather than sell these pets to people who have no clue on how to look after them.
They should be applauded  |  | | |
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| Pets at Home store on 10:38 - Jul 10 with 1266 views | TheFranchise |
| Pets at Home store on 10:28 - Jul 10 by Daggyjack |
I'm glad that Pets at Home and their staff care about their animals / fish as much as they do rather than sell these pets to people who have no clue on how to look after them.
They should be applauded |
it's really nothing to do with welfare, it's all about profit. | | | |
| Pets at Home store on 11:58 - Jul 10 with 1250 views | Drizzy |
Two mini-essays of waffle later and still no indication of any critical understanding of a pig's cognitive capabilities. Clearly, someone that is incapable of reading or even just finding an academic paper to support their argument.
I wonder how a pig would test against a 30-year-old basement dweller? | |
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| Pets at Home store on 12:19 - Jul 10 with 1245 views | E20Jack |
| Pets at Home store on 11:58 - Jul 10 by Drizzy |
Two mini-essays of waffle later and still no indication of any critical understanding of a pig's cognitive capabilities. Clearly, someone that is incapable of reading or even just finding an academic paper to support their argument.
I wonder how a pig would test against a 30-year-old basement dweller? |
if in doubt moan about the length and detail of the response and carry on crying. Classic crying Drizz. You have no further understanding of the animal in questions cognitive abilities no, but that’s because you are incredibly thick and don’t read.
Aside from your jealous wibbling... Have you sent the Res my cash? | |
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| Pets at Home store on 12:23 - Jul 10 with 1242 views | Drizzy |
| Pets at Home store on 12:19 - Jul 10 by E20Jack |
if in doubt moan about the length and detail of the response and carry on crying. Classic crying Drizz. You have no further understanding of the animal in questions cognitive abilities no, but that’s because you are incredibly thick and don’t read.
Aside from your jealous wibbling... Have you sent the Res my cash? |
You've shown a spectacular misunderstanding of the content of the debate but also the ability to conduct a debate. That's because you have no worthwhile qualifications in anything and have been proven to be a liar.
Which country are you going to change your iPhone location to this week? | |
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| Pets at Home store on 12:23 - Jul 10 with 1241 views | E20Jack |
| Pets at Home store on 10:28 - Jul 10 by Daggyjack |
I'm glad that Pets at Home and their staff care about their animals / fish as much as they do rather than sell these pets to people who have no clue on how to look after them.
They should be applauded |
It’s funny how outraged people get when their convenience is disturbed when trying to buy living animals for their own gain. Poor humans, can’t imagine the horror of having to answer some questions. | |
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| Pets at Home store on 12:28 - Jul 10 with 1231 views | Lord_Bony |
| Pets at Home store on 10:28 - Jul 10 by Daggyjack |
I'm glad that Pets at Home and their staff care about their animals / fish as much as they do rather than sell these pets to people who have no clue on how to look after them.
They should be applauded |
We are talking about buying a 1cm long crustacean here. Do we really need all this form filling and false care about these things...at the end of the day no one gives a shite.
The fishing industry harvests millions of tons of these things every year.
Nothing is said about that. | |
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| Pets at Home store on 12:32 - Jul 10 with 1215 views | Highjack |
| Pets at Home store on 12:28 - Jul 10 by Lord_Bony |
We are talking about buying a 1cm long crustacean here. Do we really need all this form filling and false care about these things...at the end of the day no one gives a shite.
The fishing industry harvests millions of tons of these things every year.
Nothing is said about that. |
1cm long crustaceans are people too | |
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| Pets at Home store on 12:33 - Jul 10 with 1214 views | E20Jack |
How are you defining intelligence? Quite a fluid term as your posts now show. | |
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| Pets at Home store on 12:41 - Jul 10 with 1205 views | Highjack |
| Pets at Home store on 12:33 - Jul 10 by E20Jack |
How are you defining intelligence? Quite a fluid term as your posts now show. |
Crows can use tools to shape the world around them in a way that very few species on earth can. That shows high levels of perception, logical thought and creativity. | |
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| Pets at Home store on 12:43 - Jul 10 with 1202 views | E20Jack |
| Pets at Home store on 12:28 - Jul 10 by Lord_Bony |
We are talking about buying a 1cm long crustacean here. Do we really need all this form filling and false care about these things...at the end of the day no one gives a shite.
The fishing industry harvests millions of tons of these things every year.
Nothing is said about that. |
Size is irrelevant though LB surely. You would be utterly tiny to a blue whale, would you be deserving of death if it decides to kill you for no real reason?
I was listening to Jordan B Peterson the other day, a clinical psychologist. He says a lobster for example has a central nervous system similar to humans and a hierarchical system that runs on seratonin just like ours, so much so that human anti depressants actually work on lobsters - yet we boil them alive. Again I use “we” loosely.
You are an irrelevance to probably so much larger things in the cosmos, surely you don’t feel that if something out there is extremely bigger than you then they should kill you? | |
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| Pets at Home store on 12:44 - Jul 10 with 1199 views | E20Jack |
| Pets at Home store on 12:41 - Jul 10 by Highjack |
Crows can use tools to shape the world around them in a way that very few species on earth can. That shows high levels of perception, logical thought and creativity. |
So your definition of intelligence is the ability to use tools?
Some small fish also highly intelligent then?
Now we are getting somewhere. [Post edited 10 Jul 2018 12:46]
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| Pets at Home store on 12:44 - Jul 10 with 1200 views | treboethjack |
| Pets at Home store on 10:37 - Jul 8 by Jackfath |
Perhaps the Pets at Home workers don't have a choice with the questionnaires and it's the only job they could get? |
The most sensible post yet, What many of you fail to realise is that the poor person serving you DOES NOT make these rules, however in order to keep their job they must follow them. So next time you decide to go on a rant at them because you cant buy a goldfish for your tiny bowl in the windowsill with no filter etc try seeing it from their perspective. |  |
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| Pets at Home store on 12:47 - Jul 10 with 1192 views | Highjack |
| Pets at Home store on 12:44 - Jul 10 by E20Jack |
So your definition of intelligence is the ability to use tools?
Some small fish also highly intelligent then?
Now we are getting somewhere. [Post edited 10 Jul 2018 12:46]
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No but in order to use tools you need skills that are a by product of high levels of perception, logical thought and creativity which are indicators of strong intelligence. | |
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| Pets at Home store on 12:56 - Jul 10 with 1178 views | E20Jack |
| Pets at Home store on 12:47 - Jul 10 by Highjack |
No but in order to use tools you need skills that are a by product of high levels of perception, logical thought and creativity which are indicators of strong intelligence. |
Ok so not what I asked then.
There are tiny fish that fashion and use tools to open shells. I’m glad we are all now realising that there is intelligent beings outside the human race tiny and large, and all deserve to live their lives without humans needlessly and violently destroying them. | |
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| Pets at Home store on 14:33 - Jul 10 with 1155 views | Lord_Bony |
| Pets at Home store on 12:56 - Jul 10 by E20Jack |
Ok so not what I asked then.
There are tiny fish that fashion and use tools to open shells. I’m glad we are all now realising that there is intelligent beings outside the human race tiny and large, and all deserve to live their lives without humans needlessly and violently destroying them. |
Yeah but what about all the live pet food available at Pets at Home and numerous websites.
All live creatures being fed to those nasty pets at home.
My heart bleeds for these creatures as they deserve to live too.
Is there no one who can speak out for these poor,defenceless beings. | |
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| Pets at Home store on 14:53 - Jul 10 with 1141 views | Highjack |
| Pets at Home store on 12:56 - Jul 10 by E20Jack |
Ok so not what I asked then.
There are tiny fish that fashion and use tools to open shells. I’m glad we are all now realising that there is intelligent beings outside the human race tiny and large, and all deserve to live their lives without humans needlessly and violently destroying them. |
I have literally no idea why you’re arguing with me when I completely agreed there are lots of animals that show high levels of intelligence. I was merely answering Humpty’s question and you jump down my throat for no reason saying I ignore science when science has shown that all the animals I listed have intelligence comparable to or greater than pigs and three year old children. | |
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