| Real wages falling 19:34 - Jun 14 with 6614 views | deanscfc |
It's now beyond any doubt that people really did vote to make themselves poorer on June 23rd 2016. That crash in the £ the morning of the referendum results never recovered and here we are one year later after months of price rises and inflation is outpacing any wage growth. Still, leavers know best...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-growth-rate-miss-april-expect
Time we scrapped this Brexit shambles or made it softer than the tackles that Chico Flores used to go down from. |  | | |  |
| Real wages falling on 19:36 - Jun 14 with 5086 views | dickythorpe |
And we were so prosperous before , living in a land that was so affordable and fair..... |  | | |
| Real wages falling on 19:40 - Jun 14 with 5079 views | Jango |
The whole point of people voting to leave was that they believed we could become a better country out of the EU. Was never gonna be plain sailing so I'd keep the 'I told you so' crap for when we've been out of the EU for a period of time | | | |
| Real wages falling on 20:06 - Jun 14 with 5051 views | deanscfc |
| Real wages falling on 19:40 - Jun 14 by Jango |
The whole point of people voting to leave was that they believed we could become a better country out of the EU. Was never gonna be plain sailing so I'd keep the 'I told you so' crap for when we've been out of the EU for a period of time |
They thought that based solely on feeling, ignoring against all expert opinion. What we need is people to put pride to one side and say 'yeah ok maybe this isn't the great idea Farage, Johnson and co made it out to be'. My issue isn't with people who voted leave at all, everyone has the right to vote how they want and the question was completely oversimplified..it is with people who voted leave and despite all the evidence we are seeing about what a mess has been created, still want the hardest of Brexits. That, in my opinion is both reckless and selfish at best. | | | |
| Real wages falling on 20:24 - Jun 14 with 5027 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Real wages falling on 20:06 - Jun 14 by deanscfc |
They thought that based solely on feeling, ignoring against all expert opinion. What we need is people to put pride to one side and say 'yeah ok maybe this isn't the great idea Farage, Johnson and co made it out to be'. My issue isn't with people who voted leave at all, everyone has the right to vote how they want and the question was completely oversimplified..it is with people who voted leave and despite all the evidence we are seeing about what a mess has been created, still want the hardest of Brexits. That, in my opinion is both reckless and selfish at best. |
Yet net immigration remains at unsustainable levels.
The supply of labour remains high. It makes it much,much easier for companies to pay less, many of them part funding their payroll through government top ups.
For me, this type of analysis just screams "we need targeted immigration for skills in sectors we are in short supply of".. such as Nurses, Doctors, Engineers etc.
What IS actually happening though is businesses are bringing staff into the country from non-UK entities. It is far cheaper for them to do. Many of these are in areas such as Marketing, Finance, Operations etc. These could be filled by UK employees, but businesses wont do that.
Bigger picture is wages stay supressed, albeit with a number of other factors thrown in. |  |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Real wages falling on 20:29 - Jun 14 with 5015 views | waynekerr55 |
People voted for the unknown unfortunately. Fûcking crazy |  |
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| Real wages falling on 20:30 - Jun 14 with 5007 views | Flashberryjack |
| Real wages falling on 20:24 - Jun 14 by PozuelosSideys |
Yet net immigration remains at unsustainable levels.
The supply of labour remains high. It makes it much,much easier for companies to pay less, many of them part funding their payroll through government top ups.
For me, this type of analysis just screams "we need targeted immigration for skills in sectors we are in short supply of".. such as Nurses, Doctors, Engineers etc.
What IS actually happening though is businesses are bringing staff into the country from non-UK entities. It is far cheaper for them to do. Many of these are in areas such as Marketing, Finance, Operations etc. These could be filled by UK employees, but businesses wont do that.
Bigger picture is wages stay supressed, albeit with a number of other factors thrown in. |
Mass immigration of labour will always drive wages down. |  |
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| Real wages falling on 20:31 - Jun 14 with 5004 views | Banosswan |
| Real wages falling on 20:29 - Jun 14 by waynekerr55 |
People voted for the unknown unfortunately. Fûcking crazy |
What was known about staying in? Both choices were unknowns, it was about weighing up the variables. |  |
| Ever since my son was... never conceived, because I've never had consensual sex without money involved... I've always kind of looked at you as... a thing, that I could live next to... in accordance with state laws. | | Poll: | How do you like your steak? |
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| Real wages falling on 20:33 - Jun 14 with 4997 views | deanscfc |
| Real wages falling on 20:24 - Jun 14 by PozuelosSideys |
Yet net immigration remains at unsustainable levels.
The supply of labour remains high. It makes it much,much easier for companies to pay less, many of them part funding their payroll through government top ups.
For me, this type of analysis just screams "we need targeted immigration for skills in sectors we are in short supply of".. such as Nurses, Doctors, Engineers etc.
What IS actually happening though is businesses are bringing staff into the country from non-UK entities. It is far cheaper for them to do. Many of these are in areas such as Marketing, Finance, Operations etc. These could be filled by UK employees, but businesses wont do that.
Bigger picture is wages stay supressed, albeit with a number of other factors thrown in. |
That all sounds fine but if you look at studies on EU immigration (anecdotal evidence just isn't good enough), then any impact on wages is minimal if it exists.
Secondly, the jobs are there. Unemployment is low. We have shortages in many areas and in supposed unskilled areas many British people just do not want to do those jobs.
Here's the thing, (and many leavers will love this)...EU immigration has started to fall as those feeling unwelcome go back to the continent. In the months that has happened our economy has posted the very worst growth figures of all 'advanced' economies in the world with just 0.2% growth and real wages have fallen as prices keep rising due to the referendum crashed £. Germany also seems to be doing very well with high immigration. Immigration isn't the issue here...a ill informed vote taken on June 23rd 2016 is. | | | |
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| Real wages falling on 20:35 - Jun 14 with 4994 views | deanscfc |
| Real wages falling on 20:30 - Jun 14 by Flashberryjack |
Mass immigration of labour will always drive wages down. |
See my latest post. A common theme with leave voters i notice is the desire to blame 'someone else'. Whether it be 'the EU', 'the immigrants', 'the experts', 'the elite', 'the political class' or 'the remoaners'.
There comes a point where people need to take a look at themselves and their own decisions. | | | |
| Real wages falling on 20:39 - Jun 14 with 4979 views | monmouth |
| Real wages falling on 20:33 - Jun 14 by deanscfc |
That all sounds fine but if you look at studies on EU immigration (anecdotal evidence just isn't good enough), then any impact on wages is minimal if it exists.
Secondly, the jobs are there. Unemployment is low. We have shortages in many areas and in supposed unskilled areas many British people just do not want to do those jobs.
Here's the thing, (and many leavers will love this)...EU immigration has started to fall as those feeling unwelcome go back to the continent. In the months that has happened our economy has posted the very worst growth figures of all 'advanced' economies in the world with just 0.2% growth and real wages have fallen as prices keep rising due to the referendum crashed £. Germany also seems to be doing very well with high immigration. Immigration isn't the issue here...a ill informed vote taken on June 23rd 2016 is. |
Wasnt there something yesterday about nurse applications from the EU being down by 96%?
Come on all you British unemployed nurses, fill the gap mun. That's what's going to happen isn't it? |  |
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| Real wages falling on 20:44 - Jun 14 with 4972 views | deanscfc |
| Real wages falling on 20:39 - Jun 14 by monmouth |
Wasnt there something yesterday about nurse applications from the EU being down by 96%?
Come on all you British unemployed nurses, fill the gap mun. That's what's going to happen isn't it? |
There was. Huge shortage and EU nurses leaving. I personally know of two EU nurses who have left in the last couple of months. I know another German girl who is an engineer who says she can't see a future here now and would get a much better job at home. Sad foe me personally because they were all very nice (and i imagine hardworking) people. | | | |
| Real wages falling on 20:47 - Jun 14 with 4962 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Real wages falling on 20:33 - Jun 14 by deanscfc |
That all sounds fine but if you look at studies on EU immigration (anecdotal evidence just isn't good enough), then any impact on wages is minimal if it exists.
Secondly, the jobs are there. Unemployment is low. We have shortages in many areas and in supposed unskilled areas many British people just do not want to do those jobs.
Here's the thing, (and many leavers will love this)...EU immigration has started to fall as those feeling unwelcome go back to the continent. In the months that has happened our economy has posted the very worst growth figures of all 'advanced' economies in the world with just 0.2% growth and real wages have fallen as prices keep rising due to the referendum crashed £. Germany also seems to be doing very well with high immigration. Immigration isn't the issue here...a ill informed vote taken on June 23rd 2016 is. |
So "studies" are good enough, but "anecdotal" evidence isnt enough? Really? So youre saying the numbers and statistics based on assumptions, extrapolations and educated guesswork is a stronger basis for an argument than actually seeing these things happening on the ground and operationally carrying out this type of work? Think we will have to disagree there my friend.
Unemployment is indeed, low. Its because we are able to create jobs here due to the landscape the Government (Labour and Cons) are able to provide business through tax incentives and like piece i noted above through benefit top ups.
Do i care about whether people feel "unweclome" being here? Come work with me. All the Romanians and Latvians and Bulgarians and Hungarians and Poles are delighted to be here and have no intention of leaving. Good for them too, they do a fine job. They freely admit they wont be here forever and they are here for work. Good luck to them.
Pulling random spot statistics out to add to your argument doesnt cut it. I want to see trend data. People keep banging on about Germany too. Given their nitrous boosted economy because of the Euro (a currency they really shouldnt be part of) then something would be horribly wrong if they werent where they are.
I understand the point youre trying to make, but snapshots dont help anyone. Lets see how it goes over the next 24-36 months. We will all be much clearer then. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Real wages falling on 20:54 - Jun 14 with 4940 views | sherpajacob |
The referendum decision to leave the EU must be respected.
However to protect our economy we should join the Euro and schengen at the same time. |  |
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| Real wages falling on 21:08 - Jun 14 with 4914 views | deanscfc |
| Real wages falling on 20:47 - Jun 14 by PozuelosSideys |
So "studies" are good enough, but "anecdotal" evidence isnt enough? Really? So youre saying the numbers and statistics based on assumptions, extrapolations and educated guesswork is a stronger basis for an argument than actually seeing these things happening on the ground and operationally carrying out this type of work? Think we will have to disagree there my friend.
Unemployment is indeed, low. Its because we are able to create jobs here due to the landscape the Government (Labour and Cons) are able to provide business through tax incentives and like piece i noted above through benefit top ups.
Do i care about whether people feel "unweclome" being here? Come work with me. All the Romanians and Latvians and Bulgarians and Hungarians and Poles are delighted to be here and have no intention of leaving. Good for them too, they do a fine job. They freely admit they wont be here forever and they are here for work. Good luck to them.
Pulling random spot statistics out to add to your argument doesnt cut it. I want to see trend data. People keep banging on about Germany too. Given their nitrous boosted economy because of the Euro (a currency they really shouldnt be part of) then something would be horribly wrong if they werent where they are.
I understand the point youre trying to make, but snapshots dont help anyone. Lets see how it goes over the next 24-36 months. We will all be much clearer then. |
Yes. You can't base such crucial decisions as the future of our country on hearsay. Studies into immigration from the EU show that it does not depreciate wages like people try to claim. Some have shown a small effect but it is blown totally out of proportion.
Is a year of our £ crashing and not recovering 'spot data'? The price rises were inevitable and will continue to be. This simply isn't a case of 'lets give it 24-36 months' because the 'negotiations' start in a matter of days. Pretty much everything is stacked in the EU's favour and frankly it's hardly surprising that they are starting to take the p*ss out of the mess our country has gotten itself into - I would be amused too if I were them.
I'm not going to get into a full rant again on all the negative effects of the referendum result which we have ALREADY seen so far. If people wanted to read it then it's in the other recent Brexit thread, but what I will say is that any leave campaign benefits are looking more and more dishonest by the day and the government of our country has already spent billions in time and resources dedicated to what in my opinion is the most stupid and backwards idea. That time and money should have been spent on the real issues our country faces...yes the NHS..but all of our public services, and the fact is that people were already struggling and ending up on the streets before this recent wage squeeze. Total mess.
Future trade prospects ain't looking great either...even Donald Trump seems to have put the EU back ahead of us in the queue for trade and our 'informal discussions' with other countries like India showed clearly that they will also want things like visa restrictions relaxed for their 1 billion plus people. Now that truly will be 'global Britain' won't it?
Finally, maybe you would care more about people feeling unwelcome if you found yourself in hospital (and I hope not) in need of EU nurses who now are back in Spain doing a good job there instead? [Post edited 14 Jun 2017 21:15]
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| Real wages falling on 21:11 - Jun 14 with 4909 views | deanscfc |
I should add that this will probably be my last post on this thread as i'm short of time this week but the point I wanted to make was that all the evidence says this has already made British people worse off and that should not be forgotten. I seriously think it is time that some people have a rethink about whether they still believe what leave campaigners like Boris Johnson told them when they so casually said "we'll have our cake and eat it". [Post edited 14 Jun 2017 21:14]
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| Real wages falling on 21:16 - Jun 14 with 4886 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Real wages falling on 21:08 - Jun 14 by deanscfc |
Yes. You can't base such crucial decisions as the future of our country on hearsay. Studies into immigration from the EU show that it does not depreciate wages like people try to claim. Some have shown a small effect but it is blown totally out of proportion.
Is a year of our £ crashing and not recovering 'spot data'? The price rises were inevitable and will continue to be. This simply isn't a case of 'lets give it 24-36 months' because the 'negotiations' start in a matter of days. Pretty much everything is stacked in the EU's favour and frankly it's hardly surprising that they are starting to take the p*ss out of the mess our country has gotten itself into - I would be amused too if I were them.
I'm not going to get into a full rant again on all the negative effects of the referendum result which we have ALREADY seen so far. If people wanted to read it then it's in the other recent Brexit thread, but what I will say is that any leave campaign benefits are looking more and more dishonest by the day and the government of our country has already spent billions in time and resources dedicated to what in my opinion is the most stupid and backwards idea. That time and money should have been spent on the real issues our country faces...yes the NHS..but all of our public services, and the fact is that people were already struggling and ending up on the streets before this recent wage squeeze. Total mess.
Future trade prospects ain't looking great either...even Donald Trump seems to have put the EU back ahead of us in the queue for trade and our 'informal discussions' with other countries like India showed clearly that they will also want things like visa restrictions relaxed for their 1 billion plus people. Now that truly will be 'global Britain' won't it?
Finally, maybe you would care more about people feeling unwelcome if you found yourself in hospital (and I hope not) in need of EU nurses who now are back in Spain doing a good job there instead? [Post edited 14 Jun 2017 21:15]
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Its far from hearsay. My work history is based on it. Lets agree to disagree. EU reporting isnt the greatest source either mate, especially given the speed at which different economies run and what theyre based on.
In regards to the FX, yes, pretty much. Until the plan has been agreed and implemented, theres still huge amounts of risk and speculation around. Its a long haul process - there will be ups and downs. None of us know whats going to happen, which is the problem.
As a side note, which probably backs your argument rather than mine, my business (a big corporate) is finding it increasingly difficult to move people from developed EU countries such as France, Italy, Germany and Spain, particularly at relatively more senior levels. The responses for these employees not wanting to come here is that they feel the standard of living in the UK is poor, and cannot compare to back home. The infrastructure such as Health, Schools, Transport, Housing is sub par and its simply far more expensive for them to be here. So a number of them refuse a promotion and payrise and stay where they are.
Its turning out that we can only really attract younger Euros at the start of their career. When they hit 35 or so, they up sticks and move back home. The UK is fast becoming a training ground and then the talent disappears again. Make of that what you will. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Real wages falling on 21:55 - Jun 14 with 4844 views | sherpajacob |
| Real wages falling on 21:16 - Jun 14 by PozuelosSideys |
Its far from hearsay. My work history is based on it. Lets agree to disagree. EU reporting isnt the greatest source either mate, especially given the speed at which different economies run and what theyre based on.
In regards to the FX, yes, pretty much. Until the plan has been agreed and implemented, theres still huge amounts of risk and speculation around. Its a long haul process - there will be ups and downs. None of us know whats going to happen, which is the problem.
As a side note, which probably backs your argument rather than mine, my business (a big corporate) is finding it increasingly difficult to move people from developed EU countries such as France, Italy, Germany and Spain, particularly at relatively more senior levels. The responses for these employees not wanting to come here is that they feel the standard of living in the UK is poor, and cannot compare to back home. The infrastructure such as Health, Schools, Transport, Housing is sub par and its simply far more expensive for them to be here. So a number of them refuse a promotion and payrise and stay where they are.
Its turning out that we can only really attract younger Euros at the start of their career. When they hit 35 or so, they up sticks and move back home. The UK is fast becoming a training ground and then the talent disappears again. Make of that what you will. |
"Its turning out that we can only really attract younger Euros at the start of their career. When they hit 35 or so, they up sticks and move back home. "
So they come here when young, fit and prepared to work hard, and go back home when they're older have children of school age and need health care.
The problem with that is what exactly? | |
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| Real wages falling on 22:15 - Jun 14 with 4814 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Real wages falling on 21:55 - Jun 14 by sherpajacob |
"Its turning out that we can only really attract younger Euros at the start of their career. When they hit 35 or so, they up sticks and move back home. "
So they come here when young, fit and prepared to work hard, and go back home when they're older have children of school age and need health care.
The problem with that is what exactly? |
The problem with it is that they are hired and preferred over local candidates. The jobs dont even go to market, they are hired directly into role from abroad. | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Real wages falling on 07:39 - Jun 15 with 4700 views | johnlangy |
| Real wages falling on 21:11 - Jun 14 by deanscfc |
I should add that this will probably be my last post on this thread as i'm short of time this week but the point I wanted to make was that all the evidence says this has already made British people worse off and that should not be forgotten. I seriously think it is time that some people have a rethink about whether they still believe what leave campaigners like Boris Johnson told them when they so casually said "we'll have our cake and eat it". [Post edited 14 Jun 2017 21:14]
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And that buffoon may soon be PM. You couldn't make it up.
Independence for West Anglia I say. | | | |
| Real wages falling on 07:41 - Jun 15 with 4697 views | johnlangy |
| Real wages falling on 20:39 - Jun 14 by monmouth |
Wasnt there something yesterday about nurse applications from the EU being down by 96%?
Come on all you British unemployed nurses, fill the gap mun. That's what's going to happen isn't it? |
Of course they will.
You mean all those who ended up not training to be nurses because another thing the con men cut was nursing training bursaries. | | | |
| Real wages falling on 07:48 - Jun 15 with 4693 views | waynekerr55 |
| Real wages falling on 20:31 - Jun 14 by Banosswan |
What was known about staying in? Both choices were unknowns, it was about weighing up the variables. |
That's a good point, however there were a lot more variables that we knew in rather than out. | |
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| Real wages falling on 08:16 - Jun 15 with 4670 views | yescomeon |
I'm a firm believer that the UK will be fine in the long run (if it can hold itself together) either way. Things will probably be tough for a few generations post-Brexit, and the UK will always be behind the EU in the queue for trade deals based on the relative size of the markets. But in the long term we should get back to near enough where we were. |  |
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| Real wages falling on 08:20 - Jun 15 with 4666 views | Lord_Bony |
The fact is the UK could have a much brighter future outside of the EU...we just don't know yet.
Come on nurses...fill those jobs or get training. |  |
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| Real wages falling on 09:13 - Jun 15 with 4614 views | ItchySphincter |
| Real wages falling on 08:16 - Jun 15 by yescomeon |
I'm a firm believer that the UK will be fine in the long run (if it can hold itself together) either way. Things will probably be tough for a few generations post-Brexit, and the UK will always be behind the EU in the queue for trade deals based on the relative size of the markets. But in the long term we should get back to near enough where we were. |
So what's the point in that then?
Hardship for a few generations and then a return to where we were?
F*ck me, a perfect example of why some people shouldn't be allowed to vote. |  |
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| Real wages falling on 09:53 - Jun 15 with 4577 views | dickythorpe |
Once Brexit "happens" it will be lucrative to become a fisherman. | | | |
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