| When will this stop? (n/t) on 15:56 - Jul 26 with 3049 views | 1mark1 |
| When will this stop? (n/t) on 15:26 - Jul 26 by mightydale |
have you got proof and evidence to say that 99 9% of terrorist are not Muslim |
No, but I have not said that is not the case. I just asked for proof and evidence for the statement that the vast majority of terrorists are Muslim.
If someone can provide verifiable proof and evidence that proves the case that "nearly all terrorists are Muslim" then I will accept it. |  |
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| When will this stop? on 16:38 - Jul 26 with 3038 views | 1mark1 |
In the last century especially in Ireland Christians were killing Christians and I would not be surprised if that the majority of terrorism was committed by Christians.
Not too sure how accurate Wikipedia, but it doesn't include acts that many would consider to be terrorists acts carried out by Saudi Arabia, US, UK, Israel, and other sovereign countries. | |
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| When will this stop? on 20:50 - Jul 26 with 2952 views | howy10 |
Well, there you go! |  | | |
| When will this stop? on 21:03 - Jul 26 with 2930 views | howy10 |
Are you totally blind to what ISIS are doing to their fellow humans (Muslims or not). People being slaughtered, including women and children, that don't conform to their barbarous murdering ethics. Go have a look on live leak. It is sickening. Can't even go on holiday day now without a bullet through your brain. How much proof do you want? | | | |
| When will this stop? on 21:34 - Jul 26 with 2903 views | R17ALE |
| When will this stop? on 21:03 - Jul 26 by howy10 |
Are you totally blind to what ISIS are doing to their fellow humans (Muslims or not). People being slaughtered, including women and children, that don't conform to their barbarous murdering ethics. Go have a look on live leak. It is sickening. Can't even go on holiday day now without a bullet through your brain. How much proof do you want? |
I read in the paper the other day, that IS have taken to throwing gays off tall buildings. How barbaric is that? I'm not overly partial to the homo-sexuals, but chucking them off buildings like the 7 Sisters does seem a little over the top. Perhaps a floodlight might be fairer?
Maybe, instead, a night with Linda Lusardi or/and Sam Fox might provide a cure and there'd be a bit less to clean up afterwards. |  |
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| When will this stop? on 21:57 - Jul 26 with 2885 views | 1mark1 |
| When will this stop? on 21:03 - Jul 26 by howy10 |
Are you totally blind to what ISIS are doing to their fellow humans (Muslims or not). People being slaughtered, including women and children, that don't conform to their barbarous murdering ethics. Go have a look on live leak. It is sickening. Can't even go on holiday day now without a bullet through your brain. How much proof do you want? |
Er can you actually point out anytime when I have spoke out for them?
ISIS or whatever they should be called have been condemned by me and others who know they are murderous scum. Many of the Muslims that actually fight against them are opposed by the idiots in the US, UK etc. They have been funded by the Saudi Arabians and are a creature born out of pathetic attempts by the west to interfere in the running of Middle Eastern countries. They carry out the same kind of in-discriminant barbarism like what Christians did in previous times against people of other religions and none, or indeed other branches of Christianity.
None of this of course is anything to do with the original question, which anyone with a brain knows is nothing to do with religion, but is to do with weak, pathetic people mainly males having power over weaker victims. | |
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| When will this stop? on 22:31 - Jul 26 with 2871 views | R17ALE |
| When will this stop? on 21:57 - Jul 26 by 1mark1 |
Er can you actually point out anytime when I have spoke out for them?
ISIS or whatever they should be called have been condemned by me and others who know they are murderous scum. Many of the Muslims that actually fight against them are opposed by the idiots in the US, UK etc. They have been funded by the Saudi Arabians and are a creature born out of pathetic attempts by the west to interfere in the running of Middle Eastern countries. They carry out the same kind of in-discriminant barbarism like what Christians did in previous times against people of other religions and none, or indeed other branches of Christianity.
None of this of course is anything to do with the original question, which anyone with a brain knows is nothing to do with religion, but is to do with weak, pathetic people mainly males having power over weaker victims. |
Off topic Mark, I know, but you are a decent leftie who can argue your case well, but it's an awfully loaded question which I'd like a yes or no answer to if you can.
If Tony Blair hadn't been born, would Lee Rigby be alive today? | |
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| When will this stop? on 22:43 - Jul 26 with 2859 views | 1mark1 |
| When will this stop? on 22:31 - Jul 26 by R17ALE |
Off topic Mark, I know, but you are a decent leftie who can argue your case well, but it's an awfully loaded question which I'd like a yes or no answer to if you can.
If Tony Blair hadn't been born, would Lee Rigby be alive today? |
Yes.(in my opinion) | |
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| When will this stop? on 23:06 - Jul 26 with 2832 views | isitme |
| When will this stop? on 21:57 - Jul 26 by 1mark1 |
Er can you actually point out anytime when I have spoke out for them?
ISIS or whatever they should be called have been condemned by me and others who know they are murderous scum. Many of the Muslims that actually fight against them are opposed by the idiots in the US, UK etc. They have been funded by the Saudi Arabians and are a creature born out of pathetic attempts by the west to interfere in the running of Middle Eastern countries. They carry out the same kind of in-discriminant barbarism like what Christians did in previous times against people of other religions and none, or indeed other branches of Christianity.
None of this of course is anything to do with the original question, which anyone with a brain knows is nothing to do with religion, but is to do with weak, pathetic people mainly males having power over weaker victims. |
The Christian attrocties were committed during the middle ages if not earlier. The French Catholics were particularly severe against the Huguenot's. One of the main criticisms of the ISIS branch of Islam is that it is medeavial in outlook.
I would disagree strongly that without the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan that westerners, like Lee Rigby would not be killed in the name of Allah. |  | | |
| When will this stop? on 23:07 - Jul 26 with 2827 views | D_Alien |
| When will this stop? on 21:34 - Jul 26 by R17ALE |
I read in the paper the other day, that IS have taken to throwing gays off tall buildings. How barbaric is that? I'm not overly partial to the homo-sexuals, but chucking them off buildings like the 7 Sisters does seem a little over the top. Perhaps a floodlight might be fairer?
Maybe, instead, a night with Linda Lusardi or/and Sam Fox might provide a cure and there'd be a bit less to clean up afterwards. |
I'm not so sure about that
The amount of slap both of them need to keep up appearances these days might leave an awful mess mixed in with the jizz stains
[Post edited 26 Jul 2015 23:09]
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| When will this stop? on 12:49 - Jul 27 with 2711 views | Nigeriamark |
| When will this stop? on 16:38 - Jul 26 by 1mark1 |
In the last century especially in Ireland Christians were killing Christians and I would not be surprised if that the majority of terrorism was committed by Christians.
Not too sure how accurate Wikipedia, but it doesn't include acts that many would consider to be terrorists acts carried out by Saudi Arabia, US, UK, Israel, and other sovereign countries. |
some of this debate depends on the definition of terrorism. I would say the Nazi party, the Stalin regime, Mao, British empire builders, the Spanish/Portuguese and other European Empire builders all committed acts of terrorism in their time over many centuries.This includes persecuting their own, homosexuals other people sharing the same religion etc etc
At the moment it is ISIS who are at the forefront of terrorism and yes they are primarily muslim. They will eventually be defeated but another country or organisation will take there place, perhaps muslim perhaps not.
History will show that terrorism is nothing to do with a specific race religion or country - There will always be some despot who will use poverty, disenfranchisement ( is that a word) etc to gain support and start the process again. The world has never been at peace although the scale of trouble / atrocities may vary
It is what it is. and on that pessimistic note - Up the Dale !!! |  | | |
| When will this stop? on 13:47 - Jul 27 with 2661 views | D_Alien |
| When will this stop? on 12:49 - Jul 27 by Nigeriamark |
some of this debate depends on the definition of terrorism. I would say the Nazi party, the Stalin regime, Mao, British empire builders, the Spanish/Portuguese and other European Empire builders all committed acts of terrorism in their time over many centuries.This includes persecuting their own, homosexuals other people sharing the same religion etc etc
At the moment it is ISIS who are at the forefront of terrorism and yes they are primarily muslim. They will eventually be defeated but another country or organisation will take there place, perhaps muslim perhaps not.
History will show that terrorism is nothing to do with a specific race religion or country - There will always be some despot who will use poverty, disenfranchisement ( is that a word) etc to gain support and start the process again. The world has never been at peace although the scale of trouble / atrocities may vary
It is what it is. and on that pessimistic note - Up the Dale !!! |
But this might set the cat among a few pigeons, or doves
http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-09-29/world-actually-becoming-more-peaceful-beli
Some facts for a change | |
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| When will this stop? on 15:15 - Jul 27 with 2607 views | 1mark1 |
| When will this stop? on 12:49 - Jul 27 by Nigeriamark |
some of this debate depends on the definition of terrorism. I would say the Nazi party, the Stalin regime, Mao, British empire builders, the Spanish/Portuguese and other European Empire builders all committed acts of terrorism in their time over many centuries.This includes persecuting their own, homosexuals other people sharing the same religion etc etc
At the moment it is ISIS who are at the forefront of terrorism and yes they are primarily muslim. They will eventually be defeated but another country or organisation will take there place, perhaps muslim perhaps not.
History will show that terrorism is nothing to do with a specific race religion or country - There will always be some despot who will use poverty, disenfranchisement ( is that a word) etc to gain support and start the process again. The world has never been at peace although the scale of trouble / atrocities may vary
It is what it is. and on that pessimistic note - Up the Dale !!! |
Good post, totally agree. | |
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| When will this stop? on 15:35 - Jul 27 with 2590 views | 1mark1 |
Many thanks for that. Like you say, nice to have some FACTS for a change. Politicians and the media/press have a lot to answer for, in the sense they make things seam much worse than they are , and the politicians use these headlines to come out with often un-necessary new laws. | |
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| When will this stop? on 15:50 - Jul 27 with 2567 views | DaleiLama |
| When will this stop? on 15:35 - Jul 27 by 1mark1 |
Many thanks for that. Like you say, nice to have some FACTS for a change. Politicians and the media/press have a lot to answer for, in the sense they make things seam much worse than they are , and the politicians use these headlines to come out with often un-necessary new laws. |
Whilst I think that article is probably very reflective of reality, it seems that there are a lot more "defenceless" deaths these days.
Of course a lot of us lived through the IRA terror campaign for many years, but when you tot up 9/11, 7/7, the shooting in the mall in Africa, the white supremacist in Scandinavia, the many, many school and other civilian shootings in the US, Lee Rigby, Tunisia etc etc (just off the top of my head) there really seems like a bigger proportion of slaughtering of innocents in the modern day versus combat between soldiers resulting in fatalities. Maybe it is just reporting in the media? |  |
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| When will this stop? on 16:09 - Jul 27 with 2364 views | 1mark1 |
| When will this stop? on 15:50 - Jul 27 by DaleiLama |
Whilst I think that article is probably very reflective of reality, it seems that there are a lot more "defenceless" deaths these days.
Of course a lot of us lived through the IRA terror campaign for many years, but when you tot up 9/11, 7/7, the shooting in the mall in Africa, the white supremacist in Scandinavia, the many, many school and other civilian shootings in the US, Lee Rigby, Tunisia etc etc (just off the top of my head) there really seems like a bigger proportion of slaughtering of innocents in the modern day versus combat between soldiers resulting in fatalities. Maybe it is just reporting in the media? |
Many of the so called IRA deaths were also defenseless, including the Birmingham and Guilford bombings. And lets not forget that in WW2 the vast majority of deaths were in fact civilians, including in Coventry, Dresden, and Hiroshima, all of which I would personally describe as terrorist acts, in the name of war.
One amazing stat is that there have been more Americans murdered by homegrown gun toting people then at home than by foreigners. So basically their gun laws are more to blame for American deaths than any crazed religious fanatics in the middle east. | |
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| When will this stop? on 21:12 - Jul 27 with 2270 views | 49thseason |
"And lets not forget that in WW2 the vast majority of deaths were in fact civilians, including in Coventry, Dresden, and Hiroshima, all of which I would personally describe as terrorist acts, in the name of war."
Interesting that you forgot to mention that the Germans bombed London and 15 other British cities (including Coventry) for the better part of 9 months between September 1940 and May 1941. Its very easy using those rose tinted spectacles, 70 years later, to describe the British and US retaliation as terrorism but I have no doubt that if you had lived through those German bombing raids or had relatives amongst the 40,000 killed, your attitude to the British and US 1000 bomber raids would be entirely different, as would your attitude to Bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki if members of your family had been tasked with invading the Japanese.
mainland.
There is a growing tendency amongst modern politicians and "Lefties" to portray Western allies during WW2 as being somehow overly violent in their reactions and to have rather more sympathy with murdering regimes than their forebears would have ever imagined possible.
Hard decisions were made by tough men for whom the remit was simple - kill or be killed. The opprobrium handed out to "Bomber" Harris" by Lefties in recent years is a disgrace and I hope that if you ever succeed in becoming a serious politician you would never have to make similar decisions.
Dresden was bombed on six occasions notably the 14th and 15th of February 1945 when the marshalling yards and city areas were targeted. In total just over 7000 tons of explosives and incendiaries were dropped on Dresden over the course of the whole war. A relatively minor target in the overall scheme, Dresden became a cause célèbre following the publication of David Irvine's (the holocaust denier) book "The Destruction of Dresden". Irvine claimed over 200,000 had been killed in Dresden whereas the official German figure was IRO 22,000. |  | | |
| When will this stop? on 21:19 - Jul 27 with 2258 views | HK_Dale |
| When will this stop? on 21:12 - Jul 27 by 49thseason |
"And lets not forget that in WW2 the vast majority of deaths were in fact civilians, including in Coventry, Dresden, and Hiroshima, all of which I would personally describe as terrorist acts, in the name of war."
Interesting that you forgot to mention that the Germans bombed London and 15 other British cities (including Coventry) for the better part of 9 months between September 1940 and May 1941. Its very easy using those rose tinted spectacles, 70 years later, to describe the British and US retaliation as terrorism but I have no doubt that if you had lived through those German bombing raids or had relatives amongst the 40,000 killed, your attitude to the British and US 1000 bomber raids would be entirely different, as would your attitude to Bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki if members of your family had been tasked with invading the Japanese.
mainland.
There is a growing tendency amongst modern politicians and "Lefties" to portray Western allies during WW2 as being somehow overly violent in their reactions and to have rather more sympathy with murdering regimes than their forebears would have ever imagined possible.
Hard decisions were made by tough men for whom the remit was simple - kill or be killed. The opprobrium handed out to "Bomber" Harris" by Lefties in recent years is a disgrace and I hope that if you ever succeed in becoming a serious politician you would never have to make similar decisions.
Dresden was bombed on six occasions notably the 14th and 15th of February 1945 when the marshalling yards and city areas were targeted. In total just over 7000 tons of explosives and incendiaries were dropped on Dresden over the course of the whole war. A relatively minor target in the overall scheme, Dresden became a cause célèbre following the publication of David Irvine's (the holocaust denier) book "The Destruction of Dresden". Irvine claimed over 200,000 had been killed in Dresden whereas the official German figure was IRO 22,000. |
Agree with the sentiment but I don't think anyone could say Hiroshima and Nagasaki were necessary responses. Indiscriminately dropping an atom bomb can't ever be justified... |  | | |
| When will this stop? on 21:23 - Jul 27 with 2258 views | isitme |
Add to that the fact that the Japanese high command had ample opportunity to surrender prior to the dropping of the atomic bomb. It is estimated that not having to invade the Japanese mainland saved over a million American solider's lives.
Those on the left also ignore the atrocities committed by Stalin, Amin, Pot, Mao, Guevara, Mugabe etc in the name of Communisism, Marxism and Socialism.
Remember it is only the west, especially capitalist America who commit atrocities, or cause atrocities to be committed. [Post edited 27 Jul 2015 21:25]
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| When will this stop? on 21:35 - Jul 27 with 2241 views | SalwaDale |
What a good thread this is, full of informed and articulate (but differing) opinion. Wow, if only the rest of the world could get together and discuss. |  |
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| When will this stop? on 21:56 - Jul 27 with 2217 views | 49thseason |
| When will this stop? on 21:19 - Jul 27 by HK_Dale |
Agree with the sentiment but I don't think anyone could say Hiroshima and Nagasaki were necessary responses. Indiscriminately dropping an atom bomb can't ever be justified... |
Hardly indescriminate, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were targeted and duely hit.The second bomb was dropped to prove that the first was not some sort of freak event and to make the Japanese realise that the game was up. Without the nuclear intervention, the war against the Japanese could heve continued for years with huge American losses. The idea that we should never use a nuclear bomb is more dangerous by far than the idea that we retain the ability to do so, if only because it encourages some nutcase regime to test our resolve. Better to let the world know we have the balls to defend ourselves with massive force than allow the idea to spread that we would never use it. | | | |
| When will this stop? on 22:57 - Jul 27 with 2180 views | D_Alien |
| When will this stop? on 21:56 - Jul 27 by 49thseason |
Hardly indescriminate, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were targeted and duely hit.The second bomb was dropped to prove that the first was not some sort of freak event and to make the Japanese realise that the game was up. Without the nuclear intervention, the war against the Japanese could heve continued for years with huge American losses. The idea that we should never use a nuclear bomb is more dangerous by far than the idea that we retain the ability to do so, if only because it encourages some nutcase regime to test our resolve. Better to let the world know we have the balls to defend ourselves with massive force than allow the idea to spread that we would never use it. |
Since 1945, the wars that've taken place haven't involved any of the world's major nations (in terms of GDP) being pitted against each other, for the longest time in history.
The reason? Nuclear deterrence. It simply rules out the possibility of a direct conflict due to the certainty that your own nationhood would be destroyed. Can there possibly be a better reason for retaining a nuclear deterrent?
In the place of such conflict, the major nations are forced to try to work through their differences by other means. So they have to talk to each other, and by that process we're gradually - in fits and starts - getting to understand how much we share in common. Of course, there's loads of well-publicised posturing; Putin, Bush, Ahmadinejad, Hussein. Even the pushing of local boundaries, such as Hussein into Kuwait, Putin into the Crimea; but compared with what's gone before, these are containable without the need to move towards full-scale conflicts.
Those on the left who believe in nuclear disarmament are, as in so many areas, off the mark in terms of the reality of human nature and the forces that shape the real world.
[Post edited 27 Jul 2015 23:06]
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| When will this stop? on 23:19 - Jul 27 with 2150 views | roccydaleian |
| When will this stop? on 22:57 - Jul 27 by D_Alien |
Since 1945, the wars that've taken place haven't involved any of the world's major nations (in terms of GDP) being pitted against each other, for the longest time in history.
The reason? Nuclear deterrence. It simply rules out the possibility of a direct conflict due to the certainty that your own nationhood would be destroyed. Can there possibly be a better reason for retaining a nuclear deterrent?
In the place of such conflict, the major nations are forced to try to work through their differences by other means. So they have to talk to each other, and by that process we're gradually - in fits and starts - getting to understand how much we share in common. Of course, there's loads of well-publicised posturing; Putin, Bush, Ahmadinejad, Hussein. Even the pushing of local boundaries, such as Hussein into Kuwait, Putin into the Crimea; but compared with what's gone before, these are containable without the need to move towards full-scale conflicts.
Those on the left who believe in nuclear disarmament are, as in so many areas, off the mark in terms of the reality of human nature and the forces that shape the real world.
[Post edited 27 Jul 2015 23:06]
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Or off 1 Mark 1?? [Post edited 27 Jul 2015 23:25]
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| When will this stop? on 23:37 - Jul 27 with 2126 views | D_Alien |
| When will this stop? on 23:19 - Jul 27 by roccydaleian |
Or off 1 Mark 1?? [Post edited 27 Jul 2015 23:25]
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Aye roccy, but 1mark1 supports the Dale so he's getting something right!
tbf I've got some respect for his sincerely-held views, and the way he goes about his business. For instance, I doubt he'd seek to skew an election to gain an advantage. I'd be interested to hear what he thinks of the situation around the Labour leadership election. Without going off at a completely different tangent, they're talking about stopping the election now because of the influx of new members (some of whom are Tories!) to vote for Corbyn. The new rules were brought in by Ed Miliband after the skewing of the selection process for MPs, particularly in Scotland - for all the good it did them there.
I, for one, sleep safer at night knowing they're too busy fighting each other to gain power and put our nuclear deterrence at risk. | |
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| When will this stop? on 00:43 - Jul 28 with 2091 views | 1mark1 |
| When will this stop? on 21:12 - Jul 27 by 49thseason |
"And lets not forget that in WW2 the vast majority of deaths were in fact civilians, including in Coventry, Dresden, and Hiroshima, all of which I would personally describe as terrorist acts, in the name of war."
Interesting that you forgot to mention that the Germans bombed London and 15 other British cities (including Coventry) for the better part of 9 months between September 1940 and May 1941. Its very easy using those rose tinted spectacles, 70 years later, to describe the British and US retaliation as terrorism but I have no doubt that if you had lived through those German bombing raids or had relatives amongst the 40,000 killed, your attitude to the British and US 1000 bomber raids would be entirely different, as would your attitude to Bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki if members of your family had been tasked with invading the Japanese.
mainland.
There is a growing tendency amongst modern politicians and "Lefties" to portray Western allies during WW2 as being somehow overly violent in their reactions and to have rather more sympathy with murdering regimes than their forebears would have ever imagined possible.
Hard decisions were made by tough men for whom the remit was simple - kill or be killed. The opprobrium handed out to "Bomber" Harris" by Lefties in recent years is a disgrace and I hope that if you ever succeed in becoming a serious politician you would never have to make similar decisions.
Dresden was bombed on six occasions notably the 14th and 15th of February 1945 when the marshalling yards and city areas were targeted. In total just over 7000 tons of explosives and incendiaries were dropped on Dresden over the course of the whole war. A relatively minor target in the overall scheme, Dresden became a cause célèbre following the publication of David Irvine's (the holocaust denier) book "The Destruction of Dresden". Irvine claimed over 200,000 had been killed in Dresden whereas the official German figure was IRO 22,000. |
Crikey how paranoid you are in your thinking I am trying to blame the British more than the Germans for carrying out acts of mass murder of innocent civilians. I gave ONE example of many carried out by UK, Germany and US. Next time for your benefit I shall name every single bombing raid that took part in WW2. Yes I KNOW that the Nazis, carried out the vast majority of despicable acts , including bombing practically every British city and main town.
But hey, I am a rose tainted leftie according to rose tainted right wingers just because I give a few examples, to illustrate an argument I put forward. Not all pacifists, anti bomb activists etc are left wingers. There are people from all the main political parties that are members of CND for example. [Post edited 28 Jul 2015 15:11]
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