| Mansion Tax 19:40 - Mar 28 with 9965 views | union_jack |
Not sure how much sympathy i will get here, but Labour's proposal of a mansion tax is a cheap shot IMO.
Have they not heard of 'asset rich, cash poor?' |  |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:00 - Mar 29 with 981 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Mansion Tax on 19:58 - Mar 29 by waynekerr55 |
That's human nature though clasey. I've seen people say that they'll vote for party x as their policies will do y for them. That applies to people from all walks of life |
I know, thats what I said, you dimwit  |  |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:01 - Mar 29 with 980 views | union_jack |
Been away for a few hours and only £30 worse off for my trip to Currys but that could potentially be a lot mother shortly.
In my absence, I see that Lisa has kept the argument going and with very good reason. I may very well affected by this Mansion Tax down here and I would be a minority. In London, the George's of this world are much more prominent and even though selling up is an option, the social impact is enormous.
The bottom line is that no tax is fair, but unfortunately essential. However, vote catching taxes based on envy of the so called wealthy is nothing but a cheap shot from Labour and a desperate attempt to garner votes in May. | |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:01 - Mar 29 with 976 views | waynekerr55 |
| Mansion Tax on 20:00 - Mar 29 by exiledclaseboy |
I know, thats what I said, you dimwit |
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 |  |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:03 - Mar 29 with 975 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Mansion Tax on 20:01 - Mar 29 by union_jack |
Been away for a few hours and only £30 worse off for my trip to Currys but that could potentially be a lot mother shortly.
In my absence, I see that Lisa has kept the argument going and with very good reason. I may very well affected by this Mansion Tax down here and I would be a minority. In London, the George's of this world are much more prominent and even though selling up is an option, the social impact is enormous.
The bottom line is that no tax is fair, but unfortunately essential. However, vote catching taxes based on envy of the so called wealthy is nothing but a cheap shot from Labour and a desperate attempt to garner votes in May. |
No one will be forced to pay a bill that they can't afford and no one will be forced to sell their house. | |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:05 - Mar 29 with 974 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Mansion Tax on 19:48 - Mar 29 by exiledclaseboy |
Good debate though. Most of the opposition coming from those who will be affected. Shame they don't speak up when they're not affected by something but that's human nature I suppose. |
Some of us do.
But I guess you could also say how easy it is for people to support a tax that they won't be subject to. Works both ways.
Perhaps it would be considerably fairer to take cost of living into consideration and put a random £250 a month tax on to the top 20% of people living in every city. What would that equate to in Swansea? £150k or £200k houses? Great - let's get everyone in Swansea that happens to live in anything worth £150k plus to pay £250 a month to support nurses in Scotland shall we? See how outraged people get then. |  | | |
| Mansion Tax on 20:09 - Mar 29 with 970 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Mansion Tax on 20:03 - Mar 29 by exiledclaseboy |
No one will be forced to pay a bill that they can't afford and no one will be forced to sell their house. |
you simply don't know that.
Even that simplistic nonsense that you linked to talked about people on over £42k a year.
Do you have any idea how little that is for a family to live on in London where transport costs alone to get to work are likely to be in excess of £50 a week and where everything costs mutiples more than it does in Swansea?
That's about £2500 a month after tax - and they are supposed to be able to find 10% of that for mansion tax? | | | |
| Mansion Tax on 20:12 - Mar 29 with 969 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Mansion Tax on 20:05 - Mar 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Some of us do.
But I guess you could also say how easy it is for people to support a tax that they won't be subject to. Works both ways.
Perhaps it would be considerably fairer to take cost of living into consideration and put a random £250 a month tax on to the top 20% of people living in every city. What would that equate to in Swansea? £150k or £200k houses? Great - let's get everyone in Swansea that happens to live in anything worth £150k plus to pay £250 a month to support nurses in Scotland shall we? See how outraged people get then. |
Ooh you're agressive tonight. And you've really fallen for the "nurses in Scotland" thing in a big way. Yes I know the Scottish Labour leader, can't remember his name, said it but come on, that's tabloid talk.
You reckon £150k-£200k is the top 20% of Swansea house prices? You haven't been here for a while have you? £150k gets you a three bed semi in most areas.
I support progressive taxation. This is progressive taxation, those who can afford to pay it will, and there'll be protection for those who can't. It will affect very few people but raise a not insignificant amount of money.
We're going round in circles and we're not going to agree. Suffice to say (and you probably won't believe this) but I'd support it if I was eligible to pay it as well. | |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:16 - Mar 29 with 959 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Mansion Tax on 20:01 - Mar 29 by union_jack |
Been away for a few hours and only £30 worse off for my trip to Currys but that could potentially be a lot mother shortly.
In my absence, I see that Lisa has kept the argument going and with very good reason. I may very well affected by this Mansion Tax down here and I would be a minority. In London, the George's of this world are much more prominent and even though selling up is an option, the social impact is enormous.
The bottom line is that no tax is fair, but unfortunately essential. However, vote catching taxes based on envy of the so called wealthy is nothing but a cheap shot from Labour and a desperate attempt to garner votes in May. |
Exactly right.
By the way - it is interesting that Clegg (who first proposed this) lives in a house that has been valued at £1.9m. Strange that.
Cameron's house is also valued at about £1.9m (according to the papers). So it's really catching the buggers that should be caught isn't it.
The fairer solution would be to tax all the no doms in London that buy up property causing prices to rise beyond all reason. Tax them to the hilt. A straight 40% or 45% or whatever on ALL income. But no, it's easier to catch out people that, however stupid to the rest of the country it may seem, may live in expensive houses, but are not wealthy people.
And yet, in most of the country, you can genuinely live in a mansion that may be valued at say £1m. In London, I live in a terraced house and it's worth twice that. It's not a big house, it's just because of where it is. And, incidentally, the property around here is worth a bomb largely because of the influx of the French (for the proximity to the Lycee) who are buying houses for cash like there's no tomorrow, to avoid the 75% tax rates in France. Fanf**ingtastic. | | | |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:16 - Mar 29 with 958 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Mansion Tax on 20:09 - Mar 29 by londonlisa2001 |
you simply don't know that.
Even that simplistic nonsense that you linked to talked about people on over £42k a year.
Do you have any idea how little that is for a family to live on in London where transport costs alone to get to work are likely to be in excess of £50 a week and where everything costs mutiples more than it does in Swansea?
That's about £2500 a month after tax - and they are supposed to be able to find 10% of that for mansion tax? |
I do know that Lisa because I know how politics work and more importantly, I know how first hand how government works. It would be political suicide for a government, any government, to impose a policy that resulted in people having to sell their houses to pay the bill. I'd imagine many more details will become available during the campaign and definitely in the run up to implementation if Labour get the chance to do so.
I'm fully aware of what the cost of living is in London. I've spent a lot of time there over the years. You are being incredibly condescending in your anger. | |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:20 - Mar 29 with 954 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Mansion Tax on 20:12 - Mar 29 by exiledclaseboy |
Ooh you're agressive tonight. And you've really fallen for the "nurses in Scotland" thing in a big way. Yes I know the Scottish Labour leader, can't remember his name, said it but come on, that's tabloid talk.
You reckon £150k-£200k is the top 20% of Swansea house prices? You haven't been here for a while have you? £150k gets you a three bed semi in most areas.
I support progressive taxation. This is progressive taxation, those who can afford to pay it will, and there'll be protection for those who can't. It will affect very few people but raise a not insignificant amount of money.
We're going round in circles and we're not going to agree. Suffice to say (and you probably won't believe this) but I'd support it if I was eligible to pay it as well. |
Yes, because this is one of the more stupid things that has been suggested in a while (as is the bedroom tax incidentally, before you start).
And a three bed semi - you don't seem to realise - I live in a terraced house - can't afford a semi, and I will get stuffed by this. This is absolutely not a progressive taxation - this is a fine for living in London.
And that's fair enough if you would support it - but that's easy to say in all honesty. I don't see why I should pay it. | | | |
| Mansion Tax on 20:24 - Mar 29 with 935 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Mansion Tax on 20:16 - Mar 29 by exiledclaseboy |
I do know that Lisa because I know how politics work and more importantly, I know how first hand how government works. It would be political suicide for a government, any government, to impose a policy that resulted in people having to sell their houses to pay the bill. I'd imagine many more details will become available during the campaign and definitely in the run up to implementation if Labour get the chance to do so.
I'm fully aware of what the cost of living is in London. I've spent a lot of time there over the years. You are being incredibly condescending in your anger. |
I apologise if I am being condescending - I don't mean to be.
But this policy is awful. It is going to affect (unless the details are different to what is suggested) people that by no stretch of anyone's imagination are the sort of 'fat cats' people are imagining.
The truly wealthy don't live in London (other than have a pad here). They don't have to live here for work - they live in the Cotswolds, or Gloucestershire or the Home Counties - none of which will be affected (unless the houses are huge). They are attacking the wrong people because it's easy - and that is unfair. | | | |
| Mansion Tax on 20:28 - Mar 29 with 928 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Mansion Tax on 20:24 - Mar 29 by londonlisa2001 |
I apologise if I am being condescending - I don't mean to be.
But this policy is awful. It is going to affect (unless the details are different to what is suggested) people that by no stretch of anyone's imagination are the sort of 'fat cats' people are imagining.
The truly wealthy don't live in London (other than have a pad here). They don't have to live here for work - they live in the Cotswolds, or Gloucestershire or the Home Counties - none of which will be affected (unless the houses are huge). They are attacking the wrong people because it's easy - and that is unfair. |
I don't agree and we're going to have to agree to disagree. But the arguments you're making could be made against paying all taxes. Tax generally affects most those who can least afford to pay it. I'm gratified to finally see someone proposing a true progressive change on those who can afford it. I accept your reservations and the appropriate protections should (and I have no doubt will) be in place for those who will struggle to pay this. But on principle, I absolutely think it's right and despite what you probably think, I'm not into the politics of envy and I don't begrudge anyone the wealth and comfort that wealth affords them. It's not in my nature. | |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:30 - Mar 29 with 924 views | monmouth |
| Mansion Tax on 20:05 - Mar 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Some of us do.
But I guess you could also say how easy it is for people to support a tax that they won't be subject to. Works both ways.
Perhaps it would be considerably fairer to take cost of living into consideration and put a random £250 a month tax on to the top 20% of people living in every city. What would that equate to in Swansea? £150k or £200k houses? Great - let's get everyone in Swansea that happens to live in anything worth £150k plus to pay £250 a month to support nurses in Scotland shall we? See how outraged people get then. |
You mean a progressive tax like income tax? Yep, ok, despite making me personally significantly worse off, I'm in. Quite why a rise in income tax is such a no no, when it is clearly the fairest answer (as far as these things can be fair) is a very sad reflection on the selfish values of this increasingly nasty country. |  |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:34 - Mar 29 with 921 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Mansion Tax on 20:30 - Mar 29 by monmouth |
You mean a progressive tax like income tax? Yep, ok, despite making me personally significantly worse off, I'm in. Quite why a rise in income tax is such a no no, when it is clearly the fairest answer (as far as these things can be fair) is a very sad reflection on the selfish values of this increasingly nasty country. |
I agree with that. Income tax rises have become anathema to modern politicians. The main problem is that everyone wants a perfect NHS, schools and public services etc but everyone also wants someone else to pay for it. | |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:42 - Mar 29 with 912 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Mansion Tax on 20:28 - Mar 29 by exiledclaseboy |
I don't agree and we're going to have to agree to disagree. But the arguments you're making could be made against paying all taxes. Tax generally affects most those who can least afford to pay it. I'm gratified to finally see someone proposing a true progressive change on those who can afford it. I accept your reservations and the appropriate protections should (and I have no doubt will) be in place for those who will struggle to pay this. But on principle, I absolutely think it's right and despite what you probably think, I'm not into the politics of envy and I don't begrudge anyone the wealth and comfort that wealth affords them. It's not in my nature. |
I support a system of taxation that is genuinely progressive.
A direct taxation (with a higher rate) on ALL income worldwide with no exceptions, methods of avoidance or anything else.
This is not that. It's not taking into consideration the reasons for property valuation differentials.
The reasons for those differentials I could rail about for ever. I think that the concentration of wealth / opportunity etc on one city is disgusting (and has affected me personally - I would love to have been able to spend my life doing what I do living close to my family and loved ones but I have not been able to, and so I had to make sacrifices as a result - my choice in some ways, but a genuine sacrifice none the less).
And you may well not agree with the politics of envy, but this proposal is all about that - it's playing on the politics of envy to garner public support, largely because many people will, unsurprisingly, assume that an expensive house equates to 'wealth'. It does not in this part of the country.
But as you say, we'll agree to disagree. I have no problem in your stance, I just disagree with it. You will disagree with many things that I believe to be fair and just as well. But please stop assuming that that makes me 'less caring' than you, or more of a 'Tory' than you are. I want a fair society as much as anyone. I have no truck at all for the 'f*** you' attitude of the bunch of rich boys that are at the top of EVERY one of our national parties (including the bloody Greens - apart from they are rich girls). I just don't think that this is the right way to approach it, since it doesn't affect the truly wealthy that are avoiding paying anything at all at the moment. They are the ones that need to start paying their fair share. | | | |
| Mansion Tax on 20:46 - Mar 29 with 906 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Mansion Tax on 20:30 - Mar 29 by monmouth |
You mean a progressive tax like income tax? Yep, ok, despite making me personally significantly worse off, I'm in. Quite why a rise in income tax is such a no no, when it is clearly the fairest answer (as far as these things can be fair) is a very sad reflection on the selfish values of this increasingly nasty country. |
Income tax is the ONLY fair taxation. Universally applied, on all income, worldwide. In bands, with as high as possible a 'free band' for those on low incomes. With the caveat that I believe that no one should pay more in taxation than they keep for themselves as it is a disincentive.
I would add to that a form of inheritance taxation to tax people with such significant inherited wealth that they have no need of an income. | | | |
| Mansion Tax on 20:48 - Mar 29 with 893 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Mansion Tax on 20:42 - Mar 29 by londonlisa2001 |
I support a system of taxation that is genuinely progressive.
A direct taxation (with a higher rate) on ALL income worldwide with no exceptions, methods of avoidance or anything else.
This is not that. It's not taking into consideration the reasons for property valuation differentials.
The reasons for those differentials I could rail about for ever. I think that the concentration of wealth / opportunity etc on one city is disgusting (and has affected me personally - I would love to have been able to spend my life doing what I do living close to my family and loved ones but I have not been able to, and so I had to make sacrifices as a result - my choice in some ways, but a genuine sacrifice none the less).
And you may well not agree with the politics of envy, but this proposal is all about that - it's playing on the politics of envy to garner public support, largely because many people will, unsurprisingly, assume that an expensive house equates to 'wealth'. It does not in this part of the country.
But as you say, we'll agree to disagree. I have no problem in your stance, I just disagree with it. You will disagree with many things that I believe to be fair and just as well. But please stop assuming that that makes me 'less caring' than you, or more of a 'Tory' than you are. I want a fair society as much as anyone. I have no truck at all for the 'f*** you' attitude of the bunch of rich boys that are at the top of EVERY one of our national parties (including the bloody Greens - apart from they are rich girls). I just don't think that this is the right way to approach it, since it doesn't affect the truly wealthy that are avoiding paying anything at all at the moment. They are the ones that need to start paying their fair share. |
I'm not going to labour this any further (see what I did there) but I will pick you up on the "less caring" thing. You're putting words into my mouth there and i didn't say that nor have I thought it. You're angry because this proposal will affect you and while I don't agree with that stance, I do understand it.
As I said hours ago, I disagree with the bedroom tax as vehemently as you disagree with this and that doesn't affect me either. | |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:49 - Mar 29 with 890 views | union_jack |
| Mansion Tax on 20:28 - Mar 29 by exiledclaseboy |
I don't agree and we're going to have to agree to disagree. But the arguments you're making could be made against paying all taxes. Tax generally affects most those who can least afford to pay it. I'm gratified to finally see someone proposing a true progressive change on those who can afford it. I accept your reservations and the appropriate protections should (and I have no doubt will) be in place for those who will struggle to pay this. But on principle, I absolutely think it's right and despite what you probably think, I'm not into the politics of envy and I don't begrudge anyone the wealth and comfort that wealth affords them. It's not in my nature. |
Clasey, what part of there are many who live in these 'mansions' can't afford it do you not understand. Regardless of measures put in place such as payment on death or whatever, thus then takes inheritance away from their loved ones who havre not got the pensions that people of the most recent generations may have to fall on. But that won't affect you of course having a cushy public sector gold standard pension I suppose. | |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:51 - Mar 29 with 886 views | monmouth |
| Mansion Tax on 20:46 - Mar 29 by londonlisa2001 |
Income tax is the ONLY fair taxation. Universally applied, on all income, worldwide. In bands, with as high as possible a 'free band' for those on low incomes. With the caveat that I believe that no one should pay more in taxation than they keep for themselves as it is a disincentive.
I would add to that a form of inheritance taxation to tax people with such significant inherited wealth that they have no need of an income. |
Personally, I would tax returns on capital or inheritance as income at the appropriate marginal rate...and that WOULD include windfall gains on main properties. As I said though I haven't thought it through as it's never going to happen and is probably as full of holes as a colander. | |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:53 - Mar 29 with 883 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Mansion Tax on 20:49 - Mar 29 by union_jack |
Clasey, what part of there are many who live in these 'mansions' can't afford it do you not understand. Regardless of measures put in place such as payment on death or whatever, thus then takes inheritance away from their loved ones who havre not got the pensions that people of the most recent generations may have to fall on. But that won't affect you of course having a cushy public sector gold standard pension I suppose. |
Now you're getting personal, why? You know nothing of me, my family or my financial circumstances and I know nothing of you and yours. I haven't presumed anything about you apart from the fact that you're angry about this because it will affect you. I understand why, as I said to Lisa, but I don't agree.
There will be protections in place for those who can't afford to pay the bill. The vast majority will be able to afford it. I understand why those who are affected are angry about the proposal. It's human nature. | |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:55 - Mar 29 with 868 views | skippyjack |
| Mansion Tax on 20:16 - Mar 29 by exiledclaseboy |
I do know that Lisa because I know how politics work and more importantly, I know how first hand how government works. It would be political suicide for a government, any government, to impose a policy that resulted in people having to sell their houses to pay the bill. I'd imagine many more details will become available during the campaign and definitely in the run up to implementation if Labour get the chance to do so.
I'm fully aware of what the cost of living is in London. I've spent a lot of time there over the years. You are being incredibly condescending in your anger. |
Nope, you don't.. |  |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:56 - Mar 29 with 866 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Mansion Tax on 20:55 - Mar 29 by skippyjack |
Nope, you don't.. |
Yes. I do. | |
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| Mansion Tax on 20:58 - Mar 29 with 854 views | union_jack |
| Mansion Tax on 20:53 - Mar 29 by exiledclaseboy |
Now you're getting personal, why? You know nothing of me, my family or my financial circumstances and I know nothing of you and yours. I haven't presumed anything about you apart from the fact that you're angry about this because it will affect you. I understand why, as I said to Lisa, but I don't agree.
There will be protections in place for those who can't afford to pay the bill. The vast majority will be able to afford it. I understand why those who are affected are angry about the proposal. It's human nature. |
It wasn't meant to be as personal as it may have sounded, so apologies if that's the way it was received.
Regardless of our quite different views, I do respect your contributions to such arguments and as you say, taxes that affect people unfairly are not accepted without comment. Yes, it may very well affect me but maybe I can get Clegg's surveyor in to value my house!! | |
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| Mansion Tax on 21:00 - Mar 29 with 849 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Mansion Tax on 20:58 - Mar 29 by union_jack |
It wasn't meant to be as personal as it may have sounded, so apologies if that's the way it was received.
Regardless of our quite different views, I do respect your contributions to such arguments and as you say, taxes that affect people unfairly are not accepted without comment. Yes, it may very well affect me but maybe I can get Clegg's surveyor in to value my house!! |
Don't worry about it, my skin is thick enough. I will say though that if you think my "gold standard" pension is going to keep me comfortable in my dotage you're sadly mistaken.
I'm glad we managed to remain civil while disagreeing. | |
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| Mansion Tax on 21:09 - Mar 29 with 838 views | union_jack |
| Mansion Tax on 21:00 - Mar 29 by exiledclaseboy |
Don't worry about it, my skin is thick enough. I will say though that if you think my "gold standard" pension is going to keep me comfortable in my dotage you're sadly mistaken.
I'm glad we managed to remain civil while disagreeing. |
Will always be the case from my side.
(Even though your politics stink!!!😄) | |
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