| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 21:38 - Dec 15 with 3085 views | judd |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 21:33 - Dec 15 by leicesterdale |
Actually, I think it is bipolar.
With schizophrenia, you'd hear voices, but that's not possible without a crowd in the stadium ;) |
Or the fookin tannoy |  |
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| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 21:41 - Dec 15 with 3051 views | dawlishdale |
Well... what a magnificent result. Although Wigan surely had an off night, much credit must go to us for the way that we went at them from the kick off (a la Plymouth) instead of letting them come onto us.
So many good performances from us tonight that it's unfair to single any players out, but I thought that Humphrys especially had a fantastic game, whilst Baah caused them problems from the off.
My only slight negatives are that Roberts is nowhere near as effective at full back, and that we seem to have collected a couple more injuries.
But overall; an excellent nights work. Thank goodness that BBM appears to read this message board, because he seems to have taken on board much of the criticism from some of our recent games, and changed things again, for which I'm very happy. |  | | |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 21:44 - Dec 15 with 3025 views | DaleiLama |
On the 10th day before Christmas, the Dale sent to me 
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| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 22:14 - Dec 15 with 2825 views | jonahwhereru |
Played 4; points 6; for 10; against 6. An amazing journey in reaching that outcome. I feel a lot of fans won’t have the stomach for this inconsistent version of Dale. Because the defeats hurt them more than the enjoyment of winning. Me I am happy to accept that when we score first we are decent and when to concede first we struggle. Camps was a creative spark, but many fans never warmed to him. But we will struggle to replace him. Until we do we will struggle when teams put 10 behind the ball. In the next window I would love BBM to find that player who can break down a stubborn defence, plus a left back, of course.
Won’t be popular but in BBMI trust. especially now it’s believed he is turning to this message board to tell him what tactics he needs to deploy. What could possibly go wrong! | | | |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 23:25 - Dec 15 with 2572 views | boromat |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 22:14 - Dec 15 by jonahwhereru |
Played 4; points 6; for 10; against 6. An amazing journey in reaching that outcome. I feel a lot of fans won’t have the stomach for this inconsistent version of Dale. Because the defeats hurt them more than the enjoyment of winning. Me I am happy to accept that when we score first we are decent and when to concede first we struggle. Camps was a creative spark, but many fans never warmed to him. But we will struggle to replace him. Until we do we will struggle when teams put 10 behind the ball. In the next window I would love BBM to find that player who can break down a stubborn defence, plus a left back, of course.
Won’t be popular but in BBMI trust. especially now it’s believed he is turning to this message board to tell him what tactics he needs to deploy. What could possibly go wrong! |
"Lump it forward...."  | |
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| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 23:30 - Dec 15 with 2558 views | DiddyDave |
Dale performances recently has me thinking of Jekyll and Hyde,or maybe it`s BBM with his tactics. Gillingham early game on Saturday,a long trip for them,presumably on the bus,close to Christmas. Dale need to get at them,it ain`t hard to work out. | | | |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 00:18 - Dec 16 with 2462 views | AtThePeake |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 20:36 - Dec 15 by 49thseason |
I think you will find it was a poor clearance by Alderweireld from a poor Done cross that dropped for Davies at the back post. |
We've won 0-5 away tonight and your contributions to the match thread have included negatively speculating about an injured player, digging out another player who wasn't even playing at the time and then picking a pointless argument about the quality of a cross from almost three years ago! |  |
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| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 00:24 - Dec 16 with 2442 views | AtThePeake |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 23:30 - Dec 15 by DiddyDave |
Dale performances recently has me thinking of Jekyll and Hyde,or maybe it`s BBM with his tactics. Gillingham early game on Saturday,a long trip for them,presumably on the bus,close to Christmas. Dale need to get at them,it ain`t hard to work out. |
It ain't hard to work out - but it ain't easy to execute in every game either, especially when you're swimming against the tide against most teams in the league in terms of budgets etc. That's something BBM keeps saying he's keen not to hide behind (although I do question whether his referring back to it on a regular basis isn't just a subtle way of drawing attention to it without explicitly using it as an excuse). Most teams we play will be keen to get at us too, simply getting at the opposition doesn't equal 0-4 and 0-5 away wins every Tuesday night, I'd suggest there's a bit more to it than that.
As jonahwhereru pointed out, scoring an early goal sets us on our way and changes the way that the game unfolds completely - it really can't be under-estimated how much easier we seem to find space when we have a lead to protect and the other team have to come chasing opportunities. Took advantage brilliantly and did well not to lose our heads at any point as reckless challenges started to go flying in. Jimmy Ryan's performances on Saturday and tonight (prior to the injury) pretty much summed up the two games, chalk and cheese. Newby excellent also and Big Jim stepped in with few wobbles (well, fewer than we've come to expect from him) - well done Brian and the lads, a home win on Saturday wouldn't go amiss. | |
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| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 00:50 - Dec 16 with 2415 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 00:18 - Dec 16 by AtThePeake |
We've won 0-5 away tonight and your contributions to the match thread have included negatively speculating about an injured player, digging out another player who wasn't even playing at the time and then picking a pointless argument about the quality of a cross from almost three years ago! |
Thankyou for pointing that out
Part of my reaction to his posts were for precisely that reason |  |
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| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 04:54 - Dec 16 with 2320 views | DiddyDave |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 00:24 - Dec 16 by AtThePeake |
It ain't hard to work out - but it ain't easy to execute in every game either, especially when you're swimming against the tide against most teams in the league in terms of budgets etc. That's something BBM keeps saying he's keen not to hide behind (although I do question whether his referring back to it on a regular basis isn't just a subtle way of drawing attention to it without explicitly using it as an excuse). Most teams we play will be keen to get at us too, simply getting at the opposition doesn't equal 0-4 and 0-5 away wins every Tuesday night, I'd suggest there's a bit more to it than that.
As jonahwhereru pointed out, scoring an early goal sets us on our way and changes the way that the game unfolds completely - it really can't be under-estimated how much easier we seem to find space when we have a lead to protect and the other team have to come chasing opportunities. Took advantage brilliantly and did well not to lose our heads at any point as reckless challenges started to go flying in. Jimmy Ryan's performances on Saturday and tonight (prior to the injury) pretty much summed up the two games, chalk and cheese. Newby excellent also and Big Jim stepped in with few wobbles (well, fewer than we've come to expect from him) - well done Brian and the lads, a home win on Saturday wouldn't go amiss. |
Yes,perhaps I was being a bit Gung Ho,but I`m sure most of us on this thread would rather us score a goal or two rather than numbly keep conceding goals with rubbish tippy tappy farting around.Or getting caught in possession deep in our own half,resulting in a goal or three,the defenders looking at other as if one of them`s done summat rather smelly. | | | |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 07:34 - Dec 16 with 2199 views | fitzochris |
That Wigan side last night was miles away from previous sides they’ve had - even at this level - but we still had to do the job and we did. In fact, that’s the kind of game we could have easily blown by fannying about, but we didn’t. So credit to BBM for executing a plan of direct action (probably after a stern word from the board, no doubt) and to the players for carrying out the gameplan superbly.
As I said on social media, we’ve had too many single swallows this season, so the real test is in these subsequent games. Can we put a run of results together to really nail down a platform for safety? I hope so.
The difficulty is, as forecast by many pre-season, injuries and suspensions are now coming to the fore, so BBM’s hands do become a little more tied in the team he can put out. Hopefully that doesn’t influence his overall approach too much, though. |  |
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| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 08:20 - Dec 16 with 2116 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 22:14 - Dec 15 by jonahwhereru |
Played 4; points 6; for 10; against 6. An amazing journey in reaching that outcome. I feel a lot of fans won’t have the stomach for this inconsistent version of Dale. Because the defeats hurt them more than the enjoyment of winning. Me I am happy to accept that when we score first we are decent and when to concede first we struggle. Camps was a creative spark, but many fans never warmed to him. But we will struggle to replace him. Until we do we will struggle when teams put 10 behind the ball. In the next window I would love BBM to find that player who can break down a stubborn defence, plus a left back, of course.
Won’t be popular but in BBMI trust. especially now it’s believed he is turning to this message board to tell him what tactics he needs to deploy. What could possibly go wrong! |
Great result but concerned about injuries, like everyone on here would love to put a run of 4-5 games unbeaten together!!
Hope we have a bit of wriggle room to dip into the loan market in Jan to get some cover in but not holding my breath. |  | | |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 09:34 - Dec 16 with 1997 views | DaleiLama |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 07:34 - Dec 16 by fitzochris |
That Wigan side last night was miles away from previous sides they’ve had - even at this level - but we still had to do the job and we did. In fact, that’s the kind of game we could have easily blown by fannying about, but we didn’t. So credit to BBM for executing a plan of direct action (probably after a stern word from the board, no doubt) and to the players for carrying out the gameplan superbly.
As I said on social media, we’ve had too many single swallows this season, so the real test is in these subsequent games. Can we put a run of results together to really nail down a platform for safety? I hope so.
The difficulty is, as forecast by many pre-season, injuries and suspensions are now coming to the fore, so BBM’s hands do become a little more tied in the team he can put out. Hopefully that doesn’t influence his overall approach too much, though. |
This season is as strange as the "New Order" under Covid and the apparent swings of form, results and the mood of fans it fuels. Sure all of us would like a run of consistent form, and BBM is at pains to stress how much the team focusses on the process and lets the results look after themselves. The thing is, that's produced mixed success, regardless of the opponent in some cases, though team selection and tactics also impact outcome. It may be that we just have to get used to a season of swallow spotting until the summer too? And safety and inconsistency are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but they are linked and not good for the ticker either.
I was struck last night by how often we both attacked and shot. Not got time to go over the whole season, but went into last 5 games on beeb to check attempts/on target and this is the result (opponent - h/a - result - attempts - on target)
Wimbledon (h) L 1-0 :8/1
Northampton (h) D 1-1: 22/5
Plymouth (a) W 4-0: 13/5
Lincoln (h) L 2-0: 7/2
Wigan (a) W 5-0: 21/11
I acknowledge a bigger sample would perhaps have more statistical relevance and this analysis might have no significant relevance over a season as it might be an outlier, but in the 4 preceding matches we had a 50/13 ratio = 26% which yielded 4 points and last night we had a 21/11 = 52% which yielded 3. I know one of the things I'd be saying to the starting 11 based on this if I were BBM. [Post edited 16 Dec 2020 9:42]
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| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 09:59 - Dec 16 with 1935 views | BucketBstard |
Have to concede well done Dale and BBM . I am his most severe critic , but credit where credit is due. Keep playing like that and the results will come. Not every week and we dont expect that , but it will give the lads confidence and it is much more entertaining to watch and listen too, if Bolton Radio wake up . | | | |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 12:26 - Dec 16 with 1735 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 09:59 - Dec 16 by BucketBstard |
Have to concede well done Dale and BBM . I am his most severe critic , but credit where credit is due. Keep playing like that and the results will come. Not every week and we dont expect that , but it will give the lads confidence and it is much more entertaining to watch and listen too, if Bolton Radio wake up . |
That's two threads where you've described yourself as BBM's "most severe/ardent critic"
Genuine question: How do you know that? And can you give us examples? Have you checked all social media outlets for anyone even more severe/ardent?
Back to the more interesting topic: last night's game. I wonder if anything significant has happened within the club since last Saturday's dismal showing? Fitz makes the point above that perhaps someone has had a word with BBM. It's also possible the players themselves (the senior ones) have put forward their views - i hope they have a voice and that it's taken into account
Tbh, i don't really care where the messaging has come from - the club's board, this board, the players, BBM's missus - as long as it's been understood loud, clear, and for the rest of his Dale career, not just for Christmas | |
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| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 12:42 - Dec 16 with 1671 views | funkkk |
Only time will tell if a corner has been turned, we have had a few false dawns under BBM already. I would caveat that, as impressive as they were, our two recent away wins were against teams who looked very poor indeed.
My view before the game was that we struggle against anybody who does their homework on us. My view hasn't changed as yet.
I hope BBM can find the right balance to bring consistency to our performances. |  | | |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 12:59 - Dec 16 with 1622 views | EllDale |
The key to survival will be our home form.
Despite what happened last night and at Plymouth this needs to improve. | | | |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 13:33 - Dec 16 with 1539 views | tony_roch975 |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 12:26 - Dec 16 by D_Alien |
That's two threads where you've described yourself as BBM's "most severe/ardent critic"
Genuine question: How do you know that? And can you give us examples? Have you checked all social media outlets for anyone even more severe/ardent?
Back to the more interesting topic: last night's game. I wonder if anything significant has happened within the club since last Saturday's dismal showing? Fitz makes the point above that perhaps someone has had a word with BBM. It's also possible the players themselves (the senior ones) have put forward their views - i hope they have a voice and that it's taken into account
Tbh, i don't really care where the messaging has come from - the club's board, this board, the players, BBM's missus - as long as it's been understood loud, clear, and for the rest of his Dale career, not just for Christmas |
I don't think tactics were particularly changed last night - couple of positional tweaks, one of which worked well (playing Lund higher up) one less well (Roberts @ LB - tho McNulty had a solid game). I do think it is about the quality of the opposition and confidence - mostly dependent on scoring first. I think Baah's attacking threat (more than his end product sometimes) encourages others to try beating opponents (especially Keohane & Dooley last night). I agree with Jonahwhereru also that we are missing the creative strength of Camps when we go behind and opponents defend deep. I also agree that for some Dale fans the performance inconsistency is a price too high. | |
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| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 13:43 - Dec 16 with 1514 views | dawlishdale |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 13:33 - Dec 16 by tony_roch975 |
I don't think tactics were particularly changed last night - couple of positional tweaks, one of which worked well (playing Lund higher up) one less well (Roberts @ LB - tho McNulty had a solid game). I do think it is about the quality of the opposition and confidence - mostly dependent on scoring first. I think Baah's attacking threat (more than his end product sometimes) encourages others to try beating opponents (especially Keohane & Dooley last night). I agree with Jonahwhereru also that we are missing the creative strength of Camps when we go behind and opponents defend deep. I also agree that for some Dale fans the performance inconsistency is a price too high. |
Both Wigan and Plymouth set up with 3 centre halves...effectively a back 5 if we took the game to them, which we did. This, in turn, freed up more space in midfield, and we took full advantage of this, which meant that our midfield and full backs could be more attack minded.
Contrast this with how Posh, Hull and Lincoln played...closing us down, not allowing us any time on the ball, and generally pressing us. It's especially noticeable with Morley and his input into games. When he is pressed, he drops deeper and deeper, almost becoming a sweeper. when he isn't pressed, he can influence the game much more, and tends to play 10-15 yards more advanced.
I hope Gillingham aren't reading this. | | | |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 14:04 - Dec 16 with 1472 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 13:33 - Dec 16 by tony_roch975 |
I don't think tactics were particularly changed last night - couple of positional tweaks, one of which worked well (playing Lund higher up) one less well (Roberts @ LB - tho McNulty had a solid game). I do think it is about the quality of the opposition and confidence - mostly dependent on scoring first. I think Baah's attacking threat (more than his end product sometimes) encourages others to try beating opponents (especially Keohane & Dooley last night). I agree with Jonahwhereru also that we are missing the creative strength of Camps when we go behind and opponents defend deep. I also agree that for some Dale fans the performance inconsistency is a price too high. |
I also don't think "tactics" (in the sense of structure/organisation of the team) are as important as something rather more basic - intent
There's been several posts about how things change when we score first. I don't disagree, but there's only one way to score first and that's to take the field of play with the intent of moving the ball into areas where shots on goal can happen
Dalei_Lama's analysis earlier today points in that direction. If the emphasis on retaining possession is drilled into the players to the extent that they feel obliged to put themselves on the back foot in order to do so, the result is Peterborough, or many of our home games. If players are given the freedom to look up and attempt to find a team-mate in a more advanced position, even if that results in conceding possession, the mindset changes. Morley's ability to find a man in the penalty area from an advanced position (or score himself) is a case in point. If on the other hand he's receiving the ball just outside his own box, he's hitting in hope rather than expectation
I believe we have players who are good enough to more than survive in L1 providing we play to their strengths, rather than asking them to do something which drains their confidence. I also believe BBM has the makings of an excellent manager, and if he's finally learnt an important lesson i'll be very happy for him. As others have said, there's been false dawns before, so we'll see
[Post edited 16 Dec 2020 14:06]
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| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 14:09 - Dec 16 with 1458 views | James1980 |
Did we benefit from Richardson's lack of managerial experience and tactical nous? As much as most of us dislike him I can't imagine Evans will have not done his homework on us and try to get Gills fired up to respond after a string of poor results. BBM and his coaching staff will be well aware of this. [Post edited 16 Dec 2020 14:14]
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| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 14:24 - Dec 16 with 1408 views | tony_roch975 |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 14:04 - Dec 16 by D_Alien |
I also don't think "tactics" (in the sense of structure/organisation of the team) are as important as something rather more basic - intent
There's been several posts about how things change when we score first. I don't disagree, but there's only one way to score first and that's to take the field of play with the intent of moving the ball into areas where shots on goal can happen
Dalei_Lama's analysis earlier today points in that direction. If the emphasis on retaining possession is drilled into the players to the extent that they feel obliged to put themselves on the back foot in order to do so, the result is Peterborough, or many of our home games. If players are given the freedom to look up and attempt to find a team-mate in a more advanced position, even if that results in conceding possession, the mindset changes. Morley's ability to find a man in the penalty area from an advanced position (or score himself) is a case in point. If on the other hand he's receiving the ball just outside his own box, he's hitting in hope rather than expectation
I believe we have players who are good enough to more than survive in L1 providing we play to their strengths, rather than asking them to do something which drains their confidence. I also believe BBM has the makings of an excellent manager, and if he's finally learnt an important lesson i'll be very happy for him. As others have said, there's been false dawns before, so we'll see
[Post edited 16 Dec 2020 14:06]
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but as Dawlish points out so well if the opposition close down and press high however much the intent is there the opportunities are reduced and any technical weaknesses exposed. I don't think we intend to play negative (sideways posession) football. I agree we can survive in League 1 but the reality is also that we don't have many players in our squad who'd get into any of the top teams. Just like higher up, there are now 2 leagues in League 1 and with our resources we are in the lower one. | |
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| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 14:39 - Dec 16 with 1365 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 14:24 - Dec 16 by tony_roch975 |
but as Dawlish points out so well if the opposition close down and press high however much the intent is there the opportunities are reduced and any technical weaknesses exposed. I don't think we intend to play negative (sideways posession) football. I agree we can survive in League 1 but the reality is also that we don't have many players in our squad who'd get into any of the top teams. Just like higher up, there are now 2 leagues in League 1 and with our resources we are in the lower one. |
Absolutely in L1.2 rather than L1.1, but i believe BBM wants to improve on that
The point about teams pressing us, is they aren't being pressed themselves, which is part & parcel of intent. If they're better than us, no complaints | |
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| Match Thread: Wigan vs Rochdale on 15:13 - Dec 16 with 1297 views | BillyRudd |
Some random ramblings on last night.
Probably like most that had paid their tenner, or season card holders, I had no idea what to expect, but hope springs eternal as they say. Mighty glad I did,nt miss it.
5 minutes in I,m thinking that it must be the camera angle as the pitch seemed to appear twice the size of Peterboroughs. We seemed to have masses of space (and I mean in their half) A combination of an increased urgency to get the ball forward (D,Aliens word "intent" sums it up) accurate passing, fast pace, willingness to shoot on site and a woeful workrate and unwillingness to close down players from Wigan made us look like Peterborough on Saturday. How the hell that lot turned Accrington over is beyond me.
For fellow nerds Peterboroughs pitch size is 9.98% smaller than Wigans . 7038sq metres as against 7140sq metres.
Loved the willingness to shoot on site. You don,t get a lucky deflection, own goal, handball, goalkeeping error or an absolute screamer from Baah if you don,t shoot. I don,t think Humphries needs to be told that though.
With Baah now making real contributions and Beezley as a work horse it gives BBM all sorts of combinations around Humphries. I would like to see the predictabilty of Baah cutting inside to get on his right peg nullified by switching between wings occasionally throughtout the game, a tactic Hill used to use often.
In terms of todays interpretation of the laws I was mildly surprised the foul on Baah was only given a red but on that basis I suppose Dooley can consider himself lucky.
I know its churlish after a 0-5 win to be critical but I don,t understand why it took so long to get Dooley on as a substitute. Took an age, although the camera angle did,nt show what was happening, its not the first time its happened this season.
An honourable mention to Accy who now are 3 points off 2nd place with an unbelievable 3 games in hand and the fact that we are currently on Wikipedia as the League 1 team with the largest away win for the 2020/21 season.
Just wish I had been there in person.
I have no idea which team will show up on Saturday but I pray it is with "intent"
Up the Dale | | | |
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