| Black managers 22:35 - Oct 30 with 22129 views | zxcvbnm |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34673088
Not being racist but surely it has to be a case of if you’re good enough you’ll get the job, this sort of ‘positive discrimination’ can be reverse racist (if that makes sense)
If someone like Jimmy-Floyd at Burton carries on the way he’s started then he’ll get his chance at a bigger club. There’s a reason Keith Curle hasn’t managed at the highest level the same reason that Steve Parkin didn’t, not quite good enough. The colour of skin doesn’t matter. |  |
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| Black managers on 18:51 - Oct 31 with 2151 views | D_Alien |
| Black managers on 18:49 - Oct 31 by dancdale |
I draw opinions from rational analysis of empirical evidence. If conflicting evidence or a contrary, rational argument is made apparent I adjust accordingly comrade. [Post edited 31 Oct 2015 18:49]
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And you've spectacularly missed the point - again!
No-one's arguing with the empirical evidence, simply that you're applying it in support of a spurious argument, i.e. in support of positive discrimination, which would be utterly patronising and self-defeating. [Post edited 31 Oct 2015 18:53]
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| Black managers on 18:57 - Oct 31 with 2126 views | dancdale |
| Black managers on 18:51 - Oct 31 by D_Alien |
And you've spectacularly missed the point - again!
No-one's arguing with the empirical evidence, simply that you're applying it in support of a spurious argument, i.e. in support of positive discrimination, which would be utterly patronising and self-defeating. [Post edited 31 Oct 2015 18:53]
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Have not mentioned positive discrimination comrade, its not a term I agree with. I simply made known to those denying there was any kind of problem, that such a problem does exist, and that being the case football should be looking to redress it. |  | | |
| Black managers on 19:00 - Oct 31 with 2118 views | D_Alien |
| Black managers on 18:57 - Oct 31 by dancdale |
Have not mentioned positive discrimination comrade, its not a term I agree with. I simply made known to those denying there was any kind of problem, that such a problem does exist, and that being the case football should be looking to redress it. |
"It is not simply the boardroom choice of the 'best person for the job', it is level of opportunity and barriers along the way to becoming, and being recognised as that best person. When 25% of the pool from which senior coaches and managers emerge are black, yet only 4% in employment at that level, there is an issue to be addressed. It is reasonable to propose that football clubs, given the role they play in society, take positive action towards doing so."
Are you denying the above is arguing in favour of positive discrimination? | |
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| Black managers on 19:09 - Oct 31 with 2098 views | 49thseason |
Tony Collins has to be one of the longest serving black managers in football ... at Rochdale, over 50 years ago. I don't imagine he was "positively discriminated". The fact is, to be successful in sport these days requires luck , timing, opportunity and qualifications and not just a grasp of the game as currently played but also a view as to where the game is going. If all these elements meet then you might argue that the best man got the job but there is much more to consider than just qualifications and track record.
And for the record it was years later that I even considered Collins as being Black - I am far from sure that the "race industry" has done anyone any favours. |  | | |
| Black managers on 19:09 - Oct 31 with 2097 views | TalkingSutty |
| Black managers on 18:40 - Oct 31 by dancdale |
In a thread about addressing ethnic disparity within football management- why obtusely shift to discussing incompetent referees, naming just two who happen to be of ethnic minority? |
I didn't shift it to referees , i just responded to another post which mentioned the subject, read back through the thread it's not difficult.
The fact they are both of ethnic minority wouln't have had any bearing on their proficiency when it came to making football related decision, i don't know why you would insinuate that?
Singh was worse than Rennie and that took some doing. A portly looking man who always seemed to be running in treacle, consequently he could never keep up with play. |  | | |
| Black managers on 19:14 - Oct 31 with 2092 views | dancdale |
| Black managers on 19:00 - Oct 31 by D_Alien |
"It is not simply the boardroom choice of the 'best person for the job', it is level of opportunity and barriers along the way to becoming, and being recognised as that best person. When 25% of the pool from which senior coaches and managers emerge are black, yet only 4% in employment at that level, there is an issue to be addressed. It is reasonable to propose that football clubs, given the role they play in society, take positive action towards doing so."
Are you denying the above is arguing in favour of positive discrimination? |
Thankyou for taking the effort to higlight my consistency. Positive action to redress, not positive discrimination.
Gotta stay positive, shouldnt discriminate comrade.
Dont worry JC still loves you, they both do. | | | |
| Black managers on 19:26 - Oct 31 with 2069 views | D_Alien |
| Black managers on 19:14 - Oct 31 by dancdale |
Thankyou for taking the effort to higlight my consistency. Positive action to redress, not positive discrimination.
Gotta stay positive, shouldnt discriminate comrade.
Dont worry JC still loves you, they both do. |
It's no effort at all.
I've tried to take you seriously but it appears you're reduced to the Bobbyjoe tactic of glib phrases that actually mean nothing.
Come back and debate when you've had a little more practice in the real world as opposed to the insularity of the defeated left. | |
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| Black managers on 19:43 - Oct 31 with 2028 views | roccydaleian |
| Black managers on 18:31 - Oct 31 by D_Alien |
It's precisely the opposite, you fool.
TS was simply emphasising the point they were incompetent, full stop, as a counter to any argument based on racial grounds.
The trouble with you Guardianistas is you're so full of your own self-righteousness you can't see anything but prejudice, even where NONE exists.
[Post edited 31 Oct 2015 18:32]
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Ha Guardianistas... You ever listen to Jon Gaunt D_Alien? |  | | |
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| Black managers on 19:50 - Oct 31 with 2002 views | D_Alien |
| Black managers on 19:43 - Oct 31 by roccydaleian |
Ha Guardianistas... You ever listen to Jon Gaunt D_Alien? |
I hadn't... but I'll look into it!
Always happy to hear/read about intelligently expressed opinions, whether I agree with them or not. | |
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| Black managers on 19:57 - Oct 31 with 1995 views | roccydaleian |
| Black managers on 19:50 - Oct 31 by D_Alien |
I hadn't... but I'll look into it!
Always happy to hear/read about intelligently expressed opinions, whether I agree with them or not. |
Long storey with Gaunty pal, but he's just started his own radio/pod cast station called
TALK2MERADIO
http://www.jongaunt.co.uk/ | | | |
| Black managers on 20:08 - Oct 31 with 1977 views | dancdale |
| Black managers on 19:26 - Oct 31 by D_Alien |
It's no effort at all.
I've tried to take you seriously but it appears you're reduced to the Bobbyjoe tactic of glib phrases that actually mean nothing.
Come back and debate when you've had a little more practice in the real world as opposed to the insularity of the defeated left. |
Point was made and argument won a while back. When you opted for name calling I went glib. Have a nice evening. | | | |
| Black managers on 23:26 - Oct 31 with 1908 views | TVOS1907 |
| Black managers on 18:09 - Oct 31 by D_Alien |
Incontrovertible statistics, wrong approach to redressing it.
Who, btw, are "whiteys" ?
You? Me?
[Post edited 31 Oct 2015 18:10]
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Barnsley fans. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Black managers on 23:43 - Oct 31 with 1891 views | D_Alien |
| Black managers on 20:08 - Oct 31 by dancdale |
Point was made and argument won a while back. When you opted for name calling I went glib. Have a nice evening. |
No you didn't. You "went glib" after my post timed at 19.00 which pointed out that, far from winning anything, you'd totally contradicted yourself.
You know it, the messageboard knows it.
And yes, I've had a lovely evening, thanks.
[Post edited 31 Oct 2015 23:46]
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| Black managers on 09:04 - Nov 1 with 1801 views | macro |
I look at the original post and think there are some black managers such as Ince and Barnes who use ‘racism’ as a cover for their ineptitude as managers. Lets face it a great deal of new manager deals such as Klopp at Liverpool, Moyes when he went to United etc have been pre-arranged. Are football chairmen going to go through the process of interviewing an Ince or Barnes just for the sake of it, I think not.
Edgar Davids was given his chance at Barnet, Chris Hughton and Chris Powell have earn their chances etc. If you’re good enough then you’ll get the job |  | | |
| Black managers on 09:09 - Nov 1 with 1797 views | TVOS1907 |
| Black managers on 13:35 - Oct 31 by mikehunt |
And what are the FA doing about recruiting more black referees? Sweet FA is my guess. Since (thingy) quit, who used to ref at our level, I haven't seen another. Let's see how they sort that one out before jumping on clubs' backs. |
There are some black (and other ethnicities) Football League linesmen, so they are in the system. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Black managers on 09:10 - Nov 1 with 1797 views | TVOS1907 |
| Black managers on 18:27 - Oct 31 by dancdale |
Why pick out Singh and Rennie if its not to mock perceived competency based on racial grounds? |
It was raised on page 1. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Black managers on 12:35 - Nov 1 with 1738 views | pioneer |
| Black managers on 18:51 - Oct 31 by D_Alien |
And you've spectacularly missed the point - again!
No-one's arguing with the empirical evidence, simply that you're applying it in support of a spurious argument, i.e. in support of positive discrimination, which would be utterly patronising and self-defeating. [Post edited 31 Oct 2015 18:53]
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So you belive theNFL have been utterly patronising and self defeating?
This thread reads like something from a bygone age. But many of the towns problems seem to be associate with outdated attitudes. |  | | |
| Black managers on 12:49 - Nov 1 with 1719 views | D_Alien |
| Black managers on 12:35 - Nov 1 by pioneer |
So you belive theNFL have been utterly patronising and self defeating?
This thread reads like something from a bygone age. But many of the towns problems seem to be associate with outdated attitudes. |
I posted earlier that I do believe the use of discrimination to try to defeat discrimination is ultimately self-defeating.
If my attitude is out-dated, that means you believe discriminatory acts to be en vogue? The NFL may well have achieved a higher percentage of black coaches, but I remain convinced that you can't right a wrong by making out black people to be deserving of special treatment - it's every bit as morally wrong to discriminate in their favour as against them.
I abhor racial discrimination of any kind. You - and others such as Porlicks, Bobbyjoe and dancdale, seem to think you have a monopoly on what is right and enlightened. I'm here to tell you, you are mistaken.
dancdale's struggle with schoolboy semantics over taking "positive action" which he doesn't want to be discriminatory holds his position up to ridicule.
I'm also ridiculing your post, actually, because not only are you mistaken but you've tried to patronise me with your incorrect assumptions about my moral compass.
I hope that's vehement enough for you.
[Post edited 1 Nov 2015 12:51]
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| Black managers on 13:24 - Nov 1 with 1687 views | Bobbyjoe |
| Black managers on 12:49 - Nov 1 by D_Alien |
I posted earlier that I do believe the use of discrimination to try to defeat discrimination is ultimately self-defeating.
If my attitude is out-dated, that means you believe discriminatory acts to be en vogue? The NFL may well have achieved a higher percentage of black coaches, but I remain convinced that you can't right a wrong by making out black people to be deserving of special treatment - it's every bit as morally wrong to discriminate in their favour as against them.
I abhor racial discrimination of any kind. You - and others such as Porlicks, Bobbyjoe and dancdale, seem to think you have a monopoly on what is right and enlightened. I'm here to tell you, you are mistaken.
dancdale's struggle with schoolboy semantics over taking "positive action" which he doesn't want to be discriminatory holds his position up to ridicule.
I'm also ridiculing your post, actually, because not only are you mistaken but you've tried to patronise me with your incorrect assumptions about my moral compass.
I hope that's vehement enough for you.
[Post edited 1 Nov 2015 12:51]
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The lady simply won't learn her lesson! | | | |
| Black managers on 13:49 - Nov 1 with 1663 views | pioneer |
| Black managers on 12:49 - Nov 1 by D_Alien |
I posted earlier that I do believe the use of discrimination to try to defeat discrimination is ultimately self-defeating.
If my attitude is out-dated, that means you believe discriminatory acts to be en vogue? The NFL may well have achieved a higher percentage of black coaches, but I remain convinced that you can't right a wrong by making out black people to be deserving of special treatment - it's every bit as morally wrong to discriminate in their favour as against them.
I abhor racial discrimination of any kind. You - and others such as Porlicks, Bobbyjoe and dancdale, seem to think you have a monopoly on what is right and enlightened. I'm here to tell you, you are mistaken.
dancdale's struggle with schoolboy semantics over taking "positive action" which he doesn't want to be discriminatory holds his position up to ridicule.
I'm also ridiculing your post, actually, because not only are you mistaken but you've tried to patronise me with your incorrect assumptions about my moral compass.
I hope that's vehement enough for you.
[Post edited 1 Nov 2015 12:51]
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As ever you make wild claims about everyone elses position most of which are false"
I am n four of black people having an equal opportunity to be considered for positions their skills and qualifactions warrant.
You are entitled to hold your view and others are entitled to hold theirs. You can continue to believe your view is always the right one and close your mind to what is going on out there.
With folks like you on the side of abhoring discrimanation equality of opportunity is a long way off, whether that be black people in football management or women in senior executive positions. | | | |
| Black managers on 14:06 - Nov 1 with 1642 views | Porlicks |
I didn't accuse anybody of racism. I said white people don't understand it and shouldn't be going around saying it's not a problem.
If you want something to jump on, I'll say this. There's a feeling in the UK that racism is an American problem that we don't encounter it here.
And then we start making lists of black people who we think aren't good at their job...... and why not throw in people who wear turbans too? |  |
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| Black managers on 14:16 - Nov 1 with 1621 views | mightydale |
| Black managers on 14:06 - Nov 1 by Porlicks |
I didn't accuse anybody of racism. I said white people don't understand it and shouldn't be going around saying it's not a problem.
If you want something to jump on, I'll say this. There's a feeling in the UK that racism is an American problem that we don't encounter it here.
And then we start making lists of black people who we think aren't good at their job...... and why not throw in people who wear turbans too? |
you talk total bullshit pal if this wasnt a football fourm site id drown you in facts about Racism.
some free advice for you stop listening to sky abd BBC and do some digging on internet before you post about racism |  |
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| Black managers on 14:52 - Nov 1 with 1600 views | SuddenLad |
| Black managers on 14:06 - Nov 1 by Porlicks |
I didn't accuse anybody of racism. I said white people don't understand it and shouldn't be going around saying it's not a problem.
If you want something to jump on, I'll say this. There's a feeling in the UK that racism is an American problem that we don't encounter it here.
And then we start making lists of black people who we think aren't good at their job...... and why not throw in people who wear turbans too? |
Do people force-feed you this one-eyed tripe, or do you swallow it without assistance ?
Either way, it isn't palatable. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Black managers on 15:34 - Nov 1 with 1574 views | TalkingSutty |
| Black managers on 14:06 - Nov 1 by Porlicks |
I didn't accuse anybody of racism. I said white people don't understand it and shouldn't be going around saying it's not a problem.
If you want something to jump on, I'll say this. There's a feeling in the UK that racism is an American problem that we don't encounter it here.
And then we start making lists of black people who we think aren't good at their job...... and why not throw in people who wear turbans too? |
'White people don't understand racism'. That comment just sums up your ignorance. Everybody knows there are racist problems in this country, whatever makes you think that the general public think it's an American problem??
What a very strange outlook you have. | | | |
| Black managers on 15:53 - Nov 1 with 1553 views | Brierls |
| Black managers on 14:06 - Nov 1 by Porlicks |
I didn't accuse anybody of racism. I said white people don't understand it and shouldn't be going around saying it's not a problem.
If you want something to jump on, I'll say this. There's a feeling in the UK that racism is an American problem that we don't encounter it here.
And then we start making lists of black people who we think aren't good at their job...... and why not throw in people who wear turbans too? |
"There's a feeling in the UK that racism is an American problem that we don't encounter it here."
You really do need to see somebody about those voices in your head.
I have never, ever, heard anything to suggest that racism is an American problem that doesn't exist in the UK. You're making this up as you go along, and it shows. |  | | |
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