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Can someone explain something to me, let's not beat around the bush the reason people vote UKIP is because they want to pull up the drawbridge.
But the whole debate regarding immigration is around 'EU immigration' - this is the sort of immigration that has no real tangible cultural difference. Do people really worry if we have a few more italians, spanish etc?
Really?
Let's be honest non EU migration is more of a drain on our resources and far more dangerous in terms of crime/terrorism and community cohesion.
Yet because of UKIP all we ever hear about is EU migration, this seems mad to me as this immigration is a net benefit to the Country.
I think our future is in the heart of Europe and we should be coming together not growing apart. The key should be pulling up the drawbridge to parts of the World which have an open hostility to us.
This moral relativist nonsense has meant that we've been hard nosed on those fleeing persecution in Iraq for instance like the Iraqi Christians - we should be helping people like them but we can't take sides apparently. This is where we've completely lost it.
I think the trend for war was heading downwards anyway. An odd thing to say given the WW1 & 2 for sure, but we hadn't been at war with the French or Spanish for almost 150 years before the Treaty of Rome. We'd almost never been at war with the Germans or their predecessor states. Hell, they were our buddies for the most part. An entirely avoidable first conflict lead to a second fuelled by bitterness and hate. That alone would have been enough I think.
The concern I have is that the more and more people think that they are getting pushed into something they don't want to be part of (and the rapidly increasing vote share for nationalist/far right parties across Europe bears that out) the greater the chance is for future conflict.
More and more people probably think that, Winston, because it's what they are being told by the red-tops. Often if you challenge somebody as to the reason for their anti-European stance they can't give you one, not one that holds up to any sort of scrutiny anyway. The motor that drives the rise of the so-called far right is the threat of Islam, I don't for one second imagine it's based on any critique of the Treaties of Amsterdam, Nice or Lisbon.
People on my side of the fence yearn for a dynamic spokesman, or woman if she's out there, to come forward and state the case for European Union on a broad platform such as that made available to Farage to state the case against. To do it in layman's terms that resonate with young families. People have to be made to feel that they count, that what they say is being heard, that collectively they have the power to shape events. It's just not happening and this disengagement is a recipe for disaster.
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
You mean the banking system led by bankers who caused the crash ? You mean changes like that made to the level of banker's bonus's which the EU brought in (100% correctly) and to which the banks simply said f$%k you, we'll give them shares or whatever instead (these are the, effectively, thieves that screwed us all into the ground 6/7 years ago and who, barring a very small number, have not suffered in the slightest for their actions). They are STILL screwing us.
These 'nutter' politicians tried to do something to control the bankers immoral greed. How would that have a negative impact on the UK ? Are you saying that, because it's a massive part of our economy they should be allowed free reign to screw us again ?
The nutter politicians staked their reputations on the "boom" created by the bankers, from Bill Clinton's relaxation of the regulations that allowed the sub prime crisis in the US to Gordon Brown's orgy of spending and debt in the 00's. Despite Red Ed's attempt to shift Labour's share of the blame, politicians were just as complicit.
And it's fairly obvious that Frankfurt and Paris want a slice of London's pie.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
More and more people probably think that, Winston, because it's what they are being told by the red-tops. Often if you challenge somebody as to the reason for their anti-European stance they can't give you one, not one that holds up to any sort of scrutiny anyway. The motor that drives the rise of the so-called far right is the threat of Islam, I don't for one second imagine it's based on any critique of the Treaties of Amsterdam, Nice or Lisbon.
People on my side of the fence yearn for a dynamic spokesman, or woman if she's out there, to come forward and state the case for European Union on a broad platform such as that made available to Farage to state the case against. To do it in layman's terms that resonate with young families. People have to be made to feel that they count, that what they say is being heard, that collectively they have the power to shape events. It's just not happening and this disengagement is a recipe for disaster.
I don't get my information from the Red Tops, so I'll respectfully disagree. I can remember concerns about the rise of the right since well before the current "Islamophobia" issues which can be broadly traced back to the rise in immigration resulting from the Iraq and Afghan Wars. For example, Jorg Haider was making headlines in Austria back in the 90's, and various Le Pen's for even longer.
Like it or not, the people of Europe have substantial and justified concerns about the whole EU project, it's lack of accountability, it's lack of democracy and the excuses given for the need for the whole damn thing in the first place.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
I don't get my information from the Red Tops, so I'll respectfully disagree. I can remember concerns about the rise of the right since well before the current "Islamophobia" issues which can be broadly traced back to the rise in immigration resulting from the Iraq and Afghan Wars. For example, Jorg Haider was making headlines in Austria back in the 90's, and various Le Pen's for even longer.
Like it or not, the people of Europe have substantial and justified concerns about the whole EU project, it's lack of accountability, it's lack of democracy and the excuses given for the need for the whole damn thing in the first place.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
I don't get my information from the Red Tops, so I'll respectfully disagree. I can remember concerns about the rise of the right since well before the current "Islamophobia" issues which can be broadly traced back to the rise in immigration resulting from the Iraq and Afghan Wars. For example, Jorg Haider was making headlines in Austria back in the 90's, and various Le Pen's for even longer.
Like it or not, the people of Europe have substantial and justified concerns about the whole EU project, it's lack of accountability, it's lack of democracy and the excuses given for the need for the whole damn thing in the first place.
You'll note I stressed the need for root and branch reform of The EU in my intial post.
When I referenced the influence of the red-tops I didn't have you in mind, not that you needed telling, I was thinking primarily of the boys in work, my extended family too for that matter.
An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it.
You'll note I stressed the need for root and branch reform of The EU in my intial post.
When I referenced the influence of the red-tops I didn't have you in mind, not that you needed telling, I was thinking primarily of the boys in work, my extended family too for that matter.
You will not get the EU to reform. It's on a one way journey to a federal Europe and talking about reform like Cameron does is just empty promises.
You'll note I stressed the need for root and branch reform of The EU in my intial post.
When I referenced the influence of the red-tops I didn't have you in mind, not that you needed telling, I was thinking primarily of the boys in work, my extended family too for that matter.
I'm not against the concept of a European superstate. I'm not against the concept of a Global state in time. If humanity is to survive long term we're all going to have to start pulling in one direction eventually.
I just think that this attempt has been a botch job from start to finish and they're better off tearing it down and starting again, but far more slowly and sensibly this time.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
You mean the banking system led by bankers who caused the crash ? You mean changes like that made to the level of banker's bonus's which the EU brought in (100% correctly) and to which the banks simply said f$%k you, we'll give them shares or whatever instead (these are the, effectively, thieves that screwed us all into the ground 6/7 years ago and who, barring a very small number, have not suffered in the slightest for their actions). They are STILL screwing us.
These 'nutter' politicians tried to do something to control the bankers immoral greed. How would that have a negative impact on the UK ? Are you saying that, because it's a massive part of our economy they should be allowed free reign to screw us again ?
You mean those politicians who dergeulated a capitalist banking system where the whole point is to make money? Those same politicians who have friends in all the right places, in the right jobs and with bags of cash to spend on getting them elected?
The public who are off their faces on credit and "gimme gimme gimme" everything i see, i want it now even though i cant afford it?
The EU have made it worse in regards to bonuses! The spin the politicians have put on that is dreadful. Its a massive hot potato, believe me. Theyve tied the hands of the banks who are now forced to pay this cash up front to their big money earners rather than control the spend through variable pay and KPI's. If i was earning £2m a year - £500k cash/£1.5m variable, that £1.5m can be manipulated by the business - it can go up, down, stay flat YoY. It can even be nothing. But because of the rules, im now guaranteed at least £1m instead, whilst the variable element drops. In the current economic environment, gimme a pen, where do i sign?
I should add, the additional issue with that is it will drive up market rates, fixed pay will increase and these guys will get paid more than ever. Massive mistake bringing those particular rules in imo.
Those 'nutter' politicians are the PROBLEM, not the solution. Making poor decisions, but dressing them up as great ideas and then letting the media do the rest.
[Post edited 11 Jan 2015 15:03]
"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
The nutter politicians staked their reputations on the "boom" created by the bankers, from Bill Clinton's relaxation of the regulations that allowed the sub prime crisis in the US to Gordon Brown's orgy of spending and debt in the 00's. Despite Red Ed's attempt to shift Labour's share of the blame, politicians were just as complicit.
And it's fairly obvious that Frankfurt and Paris want a slice of London's pie.
agreed.
The insane spending of subsequent governments and the waste of money on wars etc has put most countries national debt into crisis levels that can never be paid back.
There will come a point in the not too distant future when the Euro currency will come crashing down and that will be the end of the EU as we know it.. luckily we re not part of that...
PROUD RECIPIENT OF THE THIRD PLANET SWANS LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD.
"Per ardua ad astra"
You'll note I stressed the need for root and branch reform of The EU in my intial post.
When I referenced the influence of the red-tops I didn't have you in mind, not that you needed telling, I was thinking primarily of the boys in work, my extended family too for that matter.
I don't get influenced by the red tops.. and as a selfish viewpoint.. anti EU is the best route for me.. you've got businesses that rely on the EU.. who are Pro EU.. and if you work for them.. you're Pro EU..you've got businesses who are in control of all markets and have the bargaining power which the EU need.. it's just one big circus..
joining the EU has created so many political divides and more problems... it's going to create more problems in the long term.. I can't see a way out of this collapse.. I'm just sad that immigrants are wanting to stay.. instead of using their advanced skills for improving their own country.. considering how smarter they are.. easier life? Don't care for their country?.. I understand them.. I'm not wanted by my country either.. I don't blame you.
The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds.
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