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I can't see how Middlesbrough could demonstrate that they would have won the play offs. Therefore, in my view, the only loss of earnings that they can claim is the income from the play off semi final.
Is that worth going to court over?
if it goes to court can we do the same for tommy williams ?
This is worth a listen, an interview with the Wyvombe owner on Radio Derby, 28 minutes into the recording. He really does call it as it was and how Morris really did screw them over.
I spent/wasted a few hours of my day off yesterday reading their message board,99.9% of their fans just don’t get it. They are happy for HMRC, local businesses to only get 25% of what they’re owed, I believe the local council is on the creditor list yet they are demanding the council give them a soft loan. “ I know we owe you tens of thousands of pounds and are only likely to pay you 1/4 of it back, but can you lend us some more please?” One of their posters after the debate in the commons said “after round 1 we have the EFL on the ropes”. Surely a completely stupid thing to say after the “we have the EFL on strings taunts” Deluded fûckwits.
favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
As I understand it, they have deadlines coming which could mean they cannot finish the season.
Propspective owners being deterred by legal threats from Wycombe and Boro. Dtill got a 45 minute debate in the HoC
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Derby into Admin on 11:49 - Jan 19 with 5085 views
I can't see how Middlesbrough could demonstrate that they would have won the play offs. Therefore, in my view, the only loss of earnings that they can claim is the income from the play off semi final.
Is that worth going to court over?
I know what you mean, but I guess there's lost revenue from both play-off games being televised too.
As known from earlier this year, we get £75,000 per TV game. Assuming the total was the same a couple of years ago (give or take) that's £150,000 lost to the club straight off the bat. Then the gate receipts from a full house home leg semi-final...probably a few hundred grand in that too.
Also probably received less league prize money from the lower finishing position in the table - not sure how much that is worth but probably in the tens of thousands at least?
Non-legal brain here but not sure you can claim lost revenue from TV/gates for the play-off final as there was no guarantee they'd have made it as you say.
Edit - so obviously very made up and very fag packet style, but its a claim worth £500,000+ at least I'd guess. Not an insignificant amount of money, even for football where it swills around like there's no tomorrow.
[Post edited 19 Jan 2022 11:50]
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Derby into Admin on 11:58 - Jan 19 with 5046 views
I spent/wasted a few hours of my day off yesterday reading their message board,99.9% of their fans just don’t get it. They are happy for HMRC, local businesses to only get 25% of what they’re owed, I believe the local council is on the creditor list yet they are demanding the council give them a soft loan. “ I know we owe you tens of thousands of pounds and are only likely to pay you 1/4 of it back, but can you lend us some more please?” One of their posters after the debate in the commons said “after round 1 we have the EFL on the ropes”. Surely a completely stupid thing to say after the “we have the EFL on strings taunts” Deluded fûckwits.
Yes it is mad if you read it. The administrators have not done a great job of telling them what is happening so they are consumed with wild speculation and hatred of Boro. There are even people on there still defending Morris.
The EFL is -essentially- the rest of the league and they are trying to put their house in order after the idiot Harveys tenure. It does look like they are trying to make an example here and I think there is a real chance they will be kicked out of the league unless a white knight turns up with a wheelbarrow full of cash. That person will be buying a club with serious restrictions in place for several years on spending etc.
You can already see I think other championship clubs are noticing and putting their house in order. The EFL are acting quicker to review others accounts and putting embargos/wage restrictions in place often now without fanfare. Not saying they are in anyway perfect and I would much rather Derby did not go out of business but they have lost all sight of reality there.
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Derby into Admin on 12:03 - Jan 19 with 5011 views
As someone else put it so well. Derby were happy to continue to buy players and pay stupid wages whilst not forwarding on income tax and NIC's that they were collecting off players and staff, or ensuring that other bills were paid on time. Morris knew what he was doing in terms of delaying the revised accounts and this was to the detriment of Wycombe.
I know what you mean, but I guess there's lost revenue from both play-off games being televised too.
As known from earlier this year, we get £75,000 per TV game. Assuming the total was the same a couple of years ago (give or take) that's £150,000 lost to the club straight off the bat. Then the gate receipts from a full house home leg semi-final...probably a few hundred grand in that too.
Also probably received less league prize money from the lower finishing position in the table - not sure how much that is worth but probably in the tens of thousands at least?
Non-legal brain here but not sure you can claim lost revenue from TV/gates for the play-off final as there was no guarantee they'd have made it as you say.
Edit - so obviously very made up and very fag packet style, but its a claim worth £500,000+ at least I'd guess. Not an insignificant amount of money, even for football where it swills around like there's no tomorrow.
[Post edited 19 Jan 2022 11:50]
I'm not sure how it works from a legal perspective because the loss is of an opportunity not a set amount, but the opportunity is to win £120m (ish). It's not a 1in4 shot either so you can't necessary say 25% of the potential earnings is due as there's relative performance of the teams and form to consider, that would be perhaps an optimistic valuation.
The way I think of it is how much would you pay the EFL now if it were to offer you guaranteed 6th place at the end of the season? I think it's got to be worth somewhere between 10m and 20m to have the opportunity for promotion to the Premier League. So as a minimum I'd expect the opportunity to be valued at that, if not an optimistic 25% of the prize (30m). That would be on top of the money you've estimated below.
That's what Derby took from Middlesbrough, not by simply cheating FFP as it's over a 3 year period, it was the delaying of punishment that is why Derby have these cases against them and why I think they're valid.
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Derby into Admin on 17:17 - Jan 19 with 4490 views
I spent/wasted a few hours of my day off yesterday reading their message board,99.9% of their fans just don’t get it. They are happy for HMRC, local businesses to only get 25% of what they’re owed, I believe the local council is on the creditor list yet they are demanding the council give them a soft loan. “ I know we owe you tens of thousands of pounds and are only likely to pay you 1/4 of it back, but can you lend us some more please?” One of their posters after the debate in the commons said “after round 1 we have the EFL on the ropes”. Surely a completely stupid thing to say after the “we have the EFL on strings taunts” Deluded fûckwits.
The likelihood of HMRC accepting 25% of some £50m is slim to negligible. It needs to be paid and a plan needs to be in place from any purchaser on how they'll pay it.
This is worth a listen, an interview with the Wyvombe owner on Radio Derby, 28 minutes into the recording. He really does call it as it was and how Morris really did screw them over.
Excellent interview by the Wycombe owner. The interviewer was a tw@t but I suppose that's his job. I don't really get the 'boro claim but Wycombe definitely have a case and the Derby fans crying and whinging about them and trying to spin the narrative can f*ck right off.
It's all very fascinating. I'm not sure how this can be resolved without an injustice.
The problem I have is that I can distinguish between Derby County and Mel Morris and his chancers. I don't think they are the same thing, just as QPR isn't paladini, briatore or whoever happens to be in control at the time. And how culpable are the EFL in this? Wycombe should have had a reprieve, for sure.
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Derby into Admin on 14:44 - Jan 20 with 3480 views
There was segment on Radio 4 this morning about the Derby saga.
Completely one sided and basically said that Boro and Wycombe were delaying the sale of the club and that it would be their fault if Derby went out of business.
Like the Wycombe owner said - show me who is interested in buying the club.
Boro are a much bigger club and put up a good fight, but I think the treatment of Wycombe is disgraceful.
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Derby into Admin on 17:28 - Jan 20 with 3166 views
From the Derby statement - The key issues for the interested parties we are talking to are: “The uncertainty around the possibility of further sanctions from the EFL in the event the chosen bid does not deliver the financial compensation to pass the EFL rules around payment to both football creditors and other creditors.”
So if I'm reading this right the administrator wants an agreement that if the preferred bidder doesn't want to pay the football creditors and other creditors, there will not be a penalty for not paying? The fact the EFL won't agree to what sounds like an unreasonable request is therefore holding up the sale of the club?
I listened to the Wycombe interview and I thought he sounded reasonable, calm and logical. The Middlesbrough statement is a bit more blunt but raises some good points about there being outstanding agreements with more than just Middlesbrough and Wycombe. The whole things a mess and I'm starting to think the finger should be pointing at the administrators for the ongoing saga rather than the EFL or any other club.
[Post edited 20 Jan 2022 17:29]
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Derby into Admin on 18:15 - Jan 20 with 5723 views
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