| The Tory giveaway budget. 09:04 - Oct 30 with 11615 views | pikeypaul |
Great to see the Tories reward the people with huge tax cuts and pumping extra £10s of billions in to the NHS.
I thought Steptoe was going to burst into tears with his response knowing he could never compete with the tax cuts the Tories are handing out.
The lefties here have not said a dicky bird since the budget which tells us everything we need to know.
Although I expect the jealous fackers will be along shortly. |  |
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| The Tory giveaway budget. on 15:16 - Nov 4 with 1282 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 15:08 - Nov 4 by Highjack |
Michael Samuel, Lord Inglewood, lots of peers involved. Wonder what their motivation is? |
The three main core funders are the foundations I listed.
They state that they actively seek funding from every political slant to keep as independent as possible. But their core funding is the reverse of ‘Tory loving friends of the royal family’. [Post edited 4 Nov 2018 15:17]
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| The Tory giveaway budget. on 15:18 - Nov 4 with 1272 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 15:07 - Nov 4 by exiledclaseboy |
No doubt. I make no claims as to its accuracy. Seems a bit back of a fag packet to me. |
He gets called out on the problem with his analysis by an actuary in the comment section and gets in a right strop  | | | |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 15:24 - Nov 4 with 1267 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 15:18 - Nov 4 by londonlisa2001 |
He gets called out on the problem with his analysis by an actuary in the comment section and gets in a right strop |
Actuaries are notoriously picky though. |  |
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| The Tory giveaway budget. on 15:32 - Nov 4 with 1264 views | Highjack |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 15:16 - Nov 4 by londonlisa2001 |
The three main core funders are the foundations I listed.
They state that they actively seek funding from every political slant to keep as independent as possible. But their core funding is the reverse of ‘Tory loving friends of the royal family’. [Post edited 4 Nov 2018 15:17]
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I only used one example, Michael Samuel a Tory donor who is very close to Prince William and other royals. He’s listed as a trustee on their website. There’s also a lady who worked for Prince Charles as a researcher and a guy who was Margaret Thatchers campaign manager in 1987.
You have to ask why so many politicians and campaign groups whose sole purpose is to make as many people as possible sympathetic to their views are throwing money at a supposedly independent, non partisan website? It’s because people inherently trust and believe these websites more than they trust politicians. |  |
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| The Tory giveaway budget. on 15:38 - Nov 4 with 1247 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 15:32 - Nov 4 by Highjack |
I only used one example, Michael Samuel a Tory donor who is very close to Prince William and other royals. He’s listed as a trustee on their website. There’s also a lady who worked for Prince Charles as a researcher and a guy who was Margaret Thatchers campaign manager in 1987.
You have to ask why so many politicians and campaign groups whose sole purpose is to make as many people as possible sympathetic to their views are throwing money at a supposedly independent, non partisan website? It’s because people inherently trust and believe these websites more than they trust politicians. |
You said
“Full fact is bankrolled by Tory donors with close links to the royal family.”
That implies that the majority of their funding comes from that source rather than one Trustee and a few staff members with links to either a Tory or Prince Charles.
As I’ve pointed out, the core funding comes from organisations that are generally regarded as ‘liberal’. So they actually have a balance of views and opinions that have an influence. Which is exactly what they claim. | | | |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 20:03 - Nov 4 with 1195 views | PozuelosSideys |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 14:58 - Nov 4 by londonlisa2001 |
That’s a truly dreadful piece of ‘research’ though. |
Are you able to point us in the direction of a better one? |  |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| The Tory giveaway budget. on 20:19 - Nov 4 with 1183 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 20:03 - Nov 4 by PozuelosSideys |
Are you able to point us in the direction of a better one? |
Not really Poz.
The reason I think it’s such a dreadful piece is the silliness of the question. I don’t doubt his figures are accurate. It’s the conclusions drawn which are so poor.
The issue is the number of moving parts. Government take less government spend equals surplus (which reduces debt), or deficit (which increases debt). Government take is influenced by the economy, taxation, etc., government spend is influenced by actual public spending but also interest rates etc.. Starting off with a bigger debt means more interest payments (so a deficit before you’ve started), reckless spending means higher interest rates (bigger deficit), lower growth equals lower government take (so higher deficit), ironically increased taxation rates means lower tax take (so higher deficit).
Lots of moving parts. It’s a balancing act. And overall the economy tends to be cyclical.The issue that this government have is that the last big ‘up’ on the economy (under Blair / Brown) should have seen some (actually loads of) money being taken for a rainy day. Now that we’ve had a succession of rainy days (due to the global crash), we’ve had no money put aside to deal with it. But increasing tax has an adverse effect. And the economy hasn’t seen the required upturn until now (and now the upturn is dampened due to Brexit). So we’ve run a deficit even though we’ve cut public spending. Austerity hasn’t meant actual austerity, it’s meant a little less profligacy. Even then, the effect has been awful on the most vulnerable.
The question is too simplistic and doesn’t demonstrate anything much at all about ability to manage the economy.
I personally don’t believe the leadership of either main party could run a bath. | | | |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 20:40 - Nov 4 with 1167 views | PozuelosSideys |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 20:19 - Nov 4 by londonlisa2001 |
Not really Poz.
The reason I think it’s such a dreadful piece is the silliness of the question. I don’t doubt his figures are accurate. It’s the conclusions drawn which are so poor.
The issue is the number of moving parts. Government take less government spend equals surplus (which reduces debt), or deficit (which increases debt). Government take is influenced by the economy, taxation, etc., government spend is influenced by actual public spending but also interest rates etc.. Starting off with a bigger debt means more interest payments (so a deficit before you’ve started), reckless spending means higher interest rates (bigger deficit), lower growth equals lower government take (so higher deficit), ironically increased taxation rates means lower tax take (so higher deficit).
Lots of moving parts. It’s a balancing act. And overall the economy tends to be cyclical.The issue that this government have is that the last big ‘up’ on the economy (under Blair / Brown) should have seen some (actually loads of) money being taken for a rainy day. Now that we’ve had a succession of rainy days (due to the global crash), we’ve had no money put aside to deal with it. But increasing tax has an adverse effect. And the economy hasn’t seen the required upturn until now (and now the upturn is dampened due to Brexit). So we’ve run a deficit even though we’ve cut public spending. Austerity hasn’t meant actual austerity, it’s meant a little less profligacy. Even then, the effect has been awful on the most vulnerable.
The question is too simplistic and doesn’t demonstrate anything much at all about ability to manage the economy.
I personally don’t believe the leadership of either main party could run a bath. |
Thanks. Seems relatively balanced to me. The answer i was trying to get was the claim that Leon made which was "Tories borrow more and pay back less", which was backed up by the link from the respectable Clase (who has now turned into the messenger of dud analysis - tut tut Clase -that makes you a very dangerous sort ;)). Turns out the claim is likely to be trash.
On the point of interest rates though. Doesnt it make sense for Government to be borrowing at times like these when rates from central banks are close to zero? (as opposed to when they are around 8-10% in the past - effectively taking advantage of free money?) If the rates are that low - why isnt that being used to pay down debt which is being run at higher rates or alternatively increase investment? (i may be talking utter rubbish here, so slap this argument down if this is the case) | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| The Tory giveaway budget. on 20:54 - Nov 4 with 1161 views | londonlisa2001 |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 20:40 - Nov 4 by PozuelosSideys |
Thanks. Seems relatively balanced to me. The answer i was trying to get was the claim that Leon made which was "Tories borrow more and pay back less", which was backed up by the link from the respectable Clase (who has now turned into the messenger of dud analysis - tut tut Clase -that makes you a very dangerous sort ;)). Turns out the claim is likely to be trash.
On the point of interest rates though. Doesnt it make sense for Government to be borrowing at times like these when rates from central banks are close to zero? (as opposed to when they are around 8-10% in the past - effectively taking advantage of free money?) If the rates are that low - why isnt that being used to pay down debt which is being run at higher rates or alternatively increase investment? (i may be talking utter rubbish here, so slap this argument down if this is the case) |
The bit about Tories borrowing more and paying back less is, I think, true. The link is factually accurate, it’s just a nonsense statistic.
Clase is obviously a dangerous sort, however.
On the last bit - borrowing (which increases debt) to pay off debt is a bit circular!
Interest rates for governments are influenced by the confidence that investors have in a government’s spending plans. What is almost certainly predictable, is a Corbyn type government will see higher cost of borrowing on government debt than is currently the case. That will increase interest payments, thus increasing the deficit before you start. Borrowing to invest in infrastructure is sensible, as long as that infrastructure spending leads to growth in the economy sufficient to pay off the additional deficit (extra interest payments), and the surplus being more than enough to pay off the debt incurred /so that overall debt is reduced). | | | |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 20:57 - Nov 4 with 1160 views | exiledclaseboy |
I’m the least dangerous person I know.
It was the top hit on a google search. I hadn’t even read it when I posted the link. | |
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| The Tory giveaway budget. on 21:04 - Nov 4 with 1153 views | PozuelosSideys |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 20:57 - Nov 4 by exiledclaseboy |
I’m the least dangerous person I know.
It was the top hit on a google search. I hadn’t even read it when I posted the link. |
 Ill send McDonnell your number. You can be his Goebbels | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| The Tory giveaway budget. on 21:07 - Nov 4 with 1149 views | exiledclaseboy |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 21:04 - Nov 4 by PozuelosSideys |
Ill send McDonnell your number. You can be his Goebbels |
John and I are already chums. We’re planning the revolution together and deciding which of the capitalist pig dogs will be up against the wall first. | |
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| The Tory giveaway budget. on 21:14 - Nov 4 with 1145 views | PozuelosSideys |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 21:07 - Nov 4 by exiledclaseboy |
John and I are already chums. We’re planning the revolution together and deciding which of the capitalist pig dogs will be up against the wall first. |
Andrei Zhdanov it is ;) | |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| The Tory giveaway budget. on 22:00 - Nov 4 with 1121 views | Catullus |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 14:16 - Nov 4 by exiledclaseboy |
“The civil service is the most corrupt of the lot”
Elaborate please?
And you’re wrong about ministers not being sighted on stuff, especially these days. It was partly true in the days when governments had huge parliamentary majorities but that hasn’t been the case for some time now. |
I'm not talking about you people lower down the greasy pole. I'm talking about the top levels, the people who actually make decisions not the underlings ho carry them out,
https://www.transparency.org.uk/corruption-and-british-politics-what-we-can-and- | |
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| The Tory giveaway budget. on 22:02 - Nov 4 with 1120 views | exiledclaseboy |
Ha. Passive aggressive to the last. | |
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| The Tory giveaway budget. on 22:21 - Nov 4 with 1106 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 21:07 - Nov 4 by exiledclaseboy |
John and I are already chums. We’re planning the revolution together and deciding which of the capitalist pig dogs will be up against the wall first. |
It’s all sorted
I’ll be in touch near the time ! |  |
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| The Tory giveaway budget. on 22:27 - Nov 4 with 1102 views | londonlisa2001 |
That’s article doesn’t say anything about the civil service, other than a ridiculous comment that the law of percentages mean some will be crooks. | | | |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 10:41 - Nov 5 with 1032 views | Highjack |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 15:38 - Nov 4 by londonlisa2001 |
You said
“Full fact is bankrolled by Tory donors with close links to the royal family.”
That implies that the majority of their funding comes from that source rather than one Trustee and a few staff members with links to either a Tory or Prince Charles.
As I’ve pointed out, the core funding comes from organisations that are generally regarded as ‘liberal’. So they actually have a balance of views and opinions that have an influence. Which is exactly what they claim. |
The point was that these supposedly independent charity fact checking groups are funded by and often run by politicians and campaign groups so in all probablility cannot be relied on to be completely objective or impartial. | |
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| The Tory giveaway budget. on 11:43 - Nov 5 with 1015 views | LeonWasGod |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 20:54 - Nov 4 by londonlisa2001 |
The bit about Tories borrowing more and paying back less is, I think, true. The link is factually accurate, it’s just a nonsense statistic.
Clase is obviously a dangerous sort, however.
On the last bit - borrowing (which increases debt) to pay off debt is a bit circular!
Interest rates for governments are influenced by the confidence that investors have in a government’s spending plans. What is almost certainly predictable, is a Corbyn type government will see higher cost of borrowing on government debt than is currently the case. That will increase interest payments, thus increasing the deficit before you start. Borrowing to invest in infrastructure is sensible, as long as that infrastructure spending leads to growth in the economy sufficient to pay off the additional deficit (extra interest payments), and the surplus being more than enough to pay off the debt incurred /so that overall debt is reduced). |
I think that was the only point of that article, to be fair. Just pointing out that a commonly held belief, and readily made claim by the Tories, doesn't appear to be true on the face of it. I don't think he was making anything else out of it than that. |  | | |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 20:25 - Nov 5 with 966 views | trampie |
| The Tory giveaway budget. on 20:10 - Oct 30 by jackrmee |
Got a link to it butt? |
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