| Time For U23s To Step Up? 17:31 - Sep 17 with 3920 views | Dorse |
No agenda here, I'm genuinely interested. With the current personnel issues at the back, have the U23s got the chops to step up? Furlong and Manning have made the jump and seem to be developing well. I don't know whether Lynch will be ready for Burton - is it time for one of the U23s or do we stick with Furlong, Jon-da and Robinson? |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 18:28 - Sep 17 with 3832 views | Hayesender |
I think that's a question for smegma |  |
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| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 19:49 - Sep 17 with 3704 views | daveB |
I think the back four that started yesterday, although not ideal, is good enough for next week, the problem will be 3 games in 6 days for the likes of Robinson and Baptise so I'd be surprised if we don't sign someone this week |  | | |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 20:07 - Sep 17 with 3670 views | terryb |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 19:49 - Sep 17 by daveB |
I think the back four that started yesterday, although not ideal, is good enough for next week, the problem will be 3 games in 6 days for the likes of Robinson and Baptise so I'd be surprised if we don't sign someone this week |
Is there anyone out of contract that would be worth signing?
Alex Bruce is possibly the best available, but would he accept our wage ceiling?
Come to that, having seen him play, would he be an improvement? |  | | |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 20:54 - Sep 17 with 3591 views | TacticalR |
It's all part of Dorse's globalist agenda to install U23 sleeper agents in key positions. [Post edited 17 Sep 2017 20:54]
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| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 23:26 - Sep 17 with 3447 views | CheshireR |
The current U23 defensive crop includes Osman Kakay - right back, Niko Hamalainen - centre back, Chris Paul - centre back, Giles Phillips - centre back, Alex Finney - centre back (on loan to Maidstone), Charlie Fox- centre back and Jack Williams - left back.
I think that only Kakay and Hamalainen have featured in competitive first team games for us, although Phillips did play impressively at Lokomotive Leipzig in July.
All of these lads show promise - but having watched them a time or two - I'm not sure any are currently ready for a first team slot.
The main problem being their lack of senior football. The methodology of loaning players out seems to be our prefrred option to give them some proper competitive matches. We do need to be more diligent in selecting their host club as I think that the loan of Kakay to a woeful Chesterfield team last season seems to have damaged his confidence, and may have actually hindered his development.
If pressed I would say that Phillips and Hamalainen would be ahead of Finney, Paul and Fox for a centre half position - but I suspect we will stick with the Furlong, Baptiste, Robinson combo until the more experienced reinforcements recover and return.
No doubt that some of the youngsters mentioned will continue to feature in the match day squads, but probably confined to the bench. |  | | |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 03:06 - Sep 18 with 3347 views | timcocking |
What i don't get - every time a young 'un is asked to step up, they usually do well, or do very little wrong, but they won't be picked again anyway. |  | | |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 08:02 - Sep 18 with 3250 views | danehoop |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 03:06 - Sep 18 by timcocking |
What i don't get - every time a young 'un is asked to step up, they usually do well, or do very little wrong, but they won't be picked again anyway. |
I think they are. Furlong, manning, lumley, Robinson etc. I think the club has increasingly been very good at having that pathway into the first team squad from the u23. |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 08:23 - Sep 18 with 3226 views | parker64 |
It's a massive step up. After the 'Boro game Wheeler, experienced at Div 2, said it's the mental challenge, the speed of it and having to be alert and switched on all the time. I think that's partly why Goss struggled at the Brentford game last season. | | | |
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| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 08:29 - Sep 18 with 3216 views | Dorse |
I think Finney is out on loan at Maidstone.
There must be reasons Phillips, Paul and co (sounds like a haulage company) haven't featured and it can't simply be 'I don't like them' from Ollie. If they're not ready or unsuited to a particular opponent then fair enough. Both of the Millwall and Boro games might have been tricky for a new face but Burton might be a better opportunity, even if they are just included as subs.
Maybe Lynch is closer to a return than we think? | |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 10:04 - Sep 18 with 3066 views | robith |
We also have to manage the guys stepping up - throwing them in against one of the best teams in the division in a makeshift defence would be pretty harsh and could damage development - it took Furlong two loans to get those Arsenal and Palace beastings out of his syetm. Vs Burton, I'm much more open minded as the pace of the game (not disrespecting Burton here, I include us in that) will be a bit more temperate |  | | |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 10:56 - Sep 18 with 3021 views | smegma |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 23:26 - Sep 17 by CheshireR |
The current U23 defensive crop includes Osman Kakay - right back, Niko Hamalainen - centre back, Chris Paul - centre back, Giles Phillips - centre back, Alex Finney - centre back (on loan to Maidstone), Charlie Fox- centre back and Jack Williams - left back.
I think that only Kakay and Hamalainen have featured in competitive first team games for us, although Phillips did play impressively at Lokomotive Leipzig in July.
All of these lads show promise - but having watched them a time or two - I'm not sure any are currently ready for a first team slot.
The main problem being their lack of senior football. The methodology of loaning players out seems to be our prefrred option to give them some proper competitive matches. We do need to be more diligent in selecting their host club as I think that the loan of Kakay to a woeful Chesterfield team last season seems to have damaged his confidence, and may have actually hindered his development.
If pressed I would say that Phillips and Hamalainen would be ahead of Finney, Paul and Fox for a centre half position - but I suspect we will stick with the Furlong, Baptiste, Robinson combo until the more experienced reinforcements recover and return.
No doubt that some of the youngsters mentioned will continue to feature in the match day squads, but probably confined to the bench. |
What Martin said. I would add that Kakay has really improved in the last two Under 23 games and looks like he did before he went on loan last season. Of the names mentioned I would say Hamalainen is the best option IF needed . And as mentioned Phillips debut in Leipzig was outstanding BUT we were playing a team from the fourth level of German football. Reads the game well , tackles robustly if necessary and rarely gets beaten for pace. He is a Alan Macca, Martin Keown type of no nonsense defender. | | | |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 12:41 - Sep 18 with 2913 views | daveB |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 10:56 - Sep 18 by smegma |
What Martin said. I would add that Kakay has really improved in the last two Under 23 games and looks like he did before he went on loan last season. Of the names mentioned I would say Hamalainen is the best option IF needed . And as mentioned Phillips debut in Leipzig was outstanding BUT we were playing a team from the fourth level of German football. Reads the game well , tackles robustly if necessary and rarely gets beaten for pace. He is a Alan Macca, Martin Keown type of no nonsense defender. |
Has Phillips been playing much for the under 23's this season? I thought he looked promising against Peterbrough in pre season | | | |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 15:27 - Sep 18 with 2787 views | qprd |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 08:29 - Sep 18 by Dorse |
I think Finney is out on loan at Maidstone.
There must be reasons Phillips, Paul and co (sounds like a haulage company) haven't featured and it can't simply be 'I don't like them' from Ollie. If they're not ready or unsuited to a particular opponent then fair enough. Both of the Millwall and Boro games might have been tricky for a new face but Burton might be a better opportunity, even if they are just included as subs.
Maybe Lynch is closer to a return than we think? |
Game theory may provide an alternative explanation for why the U23s aren't given a chance.
Managers in England are highly risk-averse due to the short-term mentality of their fan bases. Ian Holloway is no different.
If we lose the next 2 matches, the vocal minority of our fan base will go absolutely mental, regardless of how many injuries we may have. They'll tweet Tony Fernandes telling him to sell the team, and otherwise blabber on about how Ollie and Les need to get the sack.
As a result of the short-termism of English fan bases, managers basically have no job security. If you're Ian Holloway, and you know that 3 bad results could mean you lose your job, are you going to start Chris Paul or a more experienced pro like Jack Robinson?
To the average fan, starting Chris Paul is the riskier proposition. If Paul starts, struggles and we lose, the twitter mob will criticize the decision and start breathing down Ollie's neck. If Ollie starts Robinson, Robinson struggles and we lose, Ollie is less likely to get criticized than if he gives a debut to an inexperienced youth team player.
Managers are unfortunately afraid to take (calculated) risks because they have so little job security. Until the vocal minority of our fan base learns to stomach a bad result without thinking the world is going to end, this risk aversion will continue. | | | |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 09:52 - Sep 19 with 2519 views | francisbowles |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 15:27 - Sep 18 by qprd |
Game theory may provide an alternative explanation for why the U23s aren't given a chance.
Managers in England are highly risk-averse due to the short-term mentality of their fan bases. Ian Holloway is no different.
If we lose the next 2 matches, the vocal minority of our fan base will go absolutely mental, regardless of how many injuries we may have. They'll tweet Tony Fernandes telling him to sell the team, and otherwise blabber on about how Ollie and Les need to get the sack.
As a result of the short-termism of English fan bases, managers basically have no job security. If you're Ian Holloway, and you know that 3 bad results could mean you lose your job, are you going to start Chris Paul or a more experienced pro like Jack Robinson?
To the average fan, starting Chris Paul is the riskier proposition. If Paul starts, struggles and we lose, the twitter mob will criticize the decision and start breathing down Ollie's neck. If Ollie starts Robinson, Robinson struggles and we lose, Ollie is less likely to get criticized than if he gives a debut to an inexperienced youth team player.
Managers are unfortunately afraid to take (calculated) risks because they have so little job security. Until the vocal minority of our fan base learns to stomach a bad result without thinking the world is going to end, this risk aversion will continue. |
Adding to that is that the opposition will target them and try and bully them into mistakes. It is such a difficult step up, particularly for a defender and we don't even have Ned to play alongside them, just Baptiste, Bidwell and other inexperienced defenders at the moment. A bad experience could ruin them as it will probably introduce elements of hesitancy and uncertainty into their game. | | | |
| Time For U23s To Step Up? on 16:02 - Sep 19 with 2421 views | francisbowles |
Just been on the offy and Kakay, Paul and Phillips all played for the U23s yesterday but were beaten for the first time this season, 4-1 at Sheff Weds, no sign of Hamalainen though. | | | |
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