| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now 11:33 - Nov 20 with 1076 views | Flamingbankers |
I had a look ( long delayed through sheer resignation, I know) at the Premier League's own statistics - to finally cement most of what most of us know and I'm no professional statistician- I saw the following 'hard facts'.
In 'Passes Backward' we were second in the league table to Man City (MC).
For 'Long Passes' we were third from bottom while MC were second to bottom ( Dr Tottenham were bottom).
For 'Total Passes' we were second with 5,961 while MC were top with (substantially more which also says something) with 7,057.
These three categories, in conjunction with the obvious one's like points, goals scored and goals conceded, are the clearest indicators of Saints disastrous tactics and strategies.
We're also 4th from bottom for crosses - that's to be expected - but that's no absolute indicator of failure because Liverpool are a place below us.
So the conclusion has to be that playing like MC, without the players to do the job effectively, will lead to failure rather than success.
Not massively complicated science but a common sense analysis - that Saints management have apparently, and incredibly, ignored this, thus are complicit in damaging the club ( along with other reasons we're beginning to understand) rather than acting in it's interests. And the Saints fans are the guardians or last barrier to failure.
Many fans have seen this for a long time and are correct in their criticisms - despite all the apologists, naysayers, ostriches and lackies (who have made a quiet and steady turn around, as usual) and club propaganda.
Change needs to come now otherwise there's no knowing how far Saints will slip and the damage it will cause. The fans are in the worst position than anyone in management or club because they invest so much individually but having next to no say in the sham/debacle happening in front of their eyes. We should be challenging the likes of Bournemouth, Brighton and Brentford; not slipping ever further behind them. [Post edited 20 Nov 11:36]
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| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 12:15 - Nov 20 with 1036 views | saintwizzler |
Russell Martin has said he isn’t going to change his style of play.
End of.
He’s in a win/win scenario.
He does well with us he jumps ship to a bigger club.
He fails. He gets his contract paid off and waits for another job, should he want one.
Why should he change!!?? |  |
| We thought that we had the answers,
It was the questions we had wrong. |
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| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 12:17 - Nov 20 with 1036 views | PatfromPoole |
Jan Bednarek's injury means that he will now be overtaken as the Premier League's top passer in terms of number of passes this season.
The fact that we have the most frequent passer and yet are bottom of the League tells you all you need to know about the current methods being an absolute waste of time. |  |
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| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 14:23 - Nov 20 with 961 views | GRIM |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 12:17 - Nov 20 by PatfromPoole |
Jan Bednarek's injury means that he will now be overtaken as the Premier League's top passer in terms of number of passes this season.
The fact that we have the most frequent passer and yet are bottom of the League tells you all you need to know about the current methods being an absolute waste of time. |
Something wrong when your centre back is is top in the stats for number of passes completed.
Even Ramsdale has more touches than our forwards who are starved of service. | | | |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 14:34 - Nov 20 with 950 views | Ifonly |
As said at the top, we copy Man City (well, we try to). We don't just play possession football, we try to play the Man City version of it. That's clearly shown by the diagram titled "Team Style Comparison" which is towards the end of this article (it's a stat heavy article, but this thread is about stats and you don't have to read the article to see the diagram):
https://theanalyst.com/eu/2024/10/southampton-struggles-should-promoted-teams-pl
The diagram contrasts the "fast and direct" teams with the "slow and intricate" teams. SFC and Man City are the 2 total outliers at the slow and intricate end. SFC are the slowest of all and my bet is that we would have more "passes per sequence" than Man City too, if our passes were as successful as theirs are.
So, when people say "Russ is just playing the modern way, everyone plays possession football", you can point to this diagram and show that's false. We play an extreme version of possession football that requires extremely talented players to make it work - players that we will never have.
If we have to be at one extreme of this diagram, we should be at the other extreme along with B'mouth, Forest and Everton. You don't need so many expensive technical players to play that way. | | | |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 14:46 - Nov 20 with 938 views | PatfromPoole |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 14:23 - Nov 20 by GRIM |
Something wrong when your centre back is is top in the stats for number of passes completed.
Even Ramsdale has more touches than our forwards who are starved of service. |
The oppo defence are all having cigars while we faff about with the ball at the back.
We then give it away after 3,000 passes and the oppo score.
I am not greatly exaggerating reality here. | |
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| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 14:55 - Nov 20 with 923 views | Number_58 |
Our style of play does have its benefits. As an old git with a dodgy bladder it's a comfort to know that I can go for a slash at any point in a game and by the time I get back to my seat the ball will still be roughly in the same part of the field. |  | | |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 17:45 - Nov 20 with 854 views | Flamingbankers |
... And Saints won't have scored. | | | |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 18:12 - Nov 20 with 841 views | Flamingbankers |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 14:34 - Nov 20 by Ifonly |
As said at the top, we copy Man City (well, we try to). We don't just play possession football, we try to play the Man City version of it. That's clearly shown by the diagram titled "Team Style Comparison" which is towards the end of this article (it's a stat heavy article, but this thread is about stats and you don't have to read the article to see the diagram):
https://theanalyst.com/eu/2024/10/southampton-struggles-should-promoted-teams-pl
The diagram contrasts the "fast and direct" teams with the "slow and intricate" teams. SFC and Man City are the 2 total outliers at the slow and intricate end. SFC are the slowest of all and my bet is that we would have more "passes per sequence" than Man City too, if our passes were as successful as theirs are.
So, when people say "Russ is just playing the modern way, everyone plays possession football", you can point to this diagram and show that's false. We play an extreme version of possession football that requires extremely talented players to make it work - players that we will never have.
If we have to be at one extreme of this diagram, we should be at the other extreme along with B'mouth, Forest and Everton. You don't need so many expensive technical players to play that way. |
In The Championship tippy-tappy worked but had failed in the Premier. According to this article, Saints are the highest purveyors (along with Dr Tottenham) of tippy-tappy in their own penalty area for goal-kicks at 84%. Admittedly, Brighton and Chelsea both have 77% but they both have much better players and better players around them to pass to. 84 % is a crazy figure and is further proof that the management have mismatched the style of play and the players to achieve it. A style which they don't come anywhere near effecting proficiently. | | | |
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| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 19:00 - Nov 20 with 795 views | kingslandstand1 |
Obviously a true to form post which all on here will (probably) agree with, but we should not be challenging the likes of Bournemouth, Brighton and Brentford, they should be challenging us with our top division heritage and fan base |  | | |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 19:37 - Nov 20 with 726 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 12:15 - Nov 20 by saintwizzler |
Russell Martin has said he isn’t going to change his style of play.
End of.
He’s in a win/win scenario.
He does well with us he jumps ship to a bigger club.
He fails. He gets his contract paid off and waits for another job, should he want one.
Why should he change!!?? |
Look at the 08.38 question re should we change manager and whether RM is doing more to promote his "brand" of football and hence himself
I know people have differing views on Blackmore, but he does give honest opinions which the club sometimes don't like
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton | | | |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 20:50 - Nov 20 with 668 views | Flamingbankers |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 19:37 - Nov 20 by kingslandstand1 |
Look at the 08.38 question re should we change manager and whether RM is doing more to promote his "brand" of football and hence himself
I know people have differing views on Blackmore, but he does give honest opinions which the club sometimes don't like
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton |
I know people have differing views on Blackmore, but he does give honest opinions which the club sometimes don't like
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton
Adam replied: I think Sport Republic’s long-term ambitions are to create a business model that is self-sufficient in the long-term, and can produce talent that can add value to the teams they own, but also add asset value and create profit for reinvestment and sustainability by developing talent. If Sport Republic could get to the point where their multi-club model is making it easier to fund Saints to keep them in the Premier League consistently, that has to be the aim.
I can not see the logic in Adam's comments and it seems he's just backing-up his critical work associates with sports journalistic verbiage. Why would fans believe somebody so close to the club?
1. Have SR seriously done anything effective to lead the fans to believe they are preparing for self sufficiency in the future? It just seems to be a model of buy cheap and, if lucky, sell on for a profit.
How many youngsters come through the ranks compared to the days when we had a reserve side?
Any youngsters that are any good are sold on pretty much instantly.
SR have paid over the odds for youngsters that can't even reach the levels Saints require and have to be loaned out until eventually sold for barely any profit or more likely a loss.
When we get relegated any decent player will disappear.
2. How does owning 3 clubs benefit Southampton football Club? There's been absolutely no evidence of this over the 3 years and certainly no sign of it for the future.
All of this does absolutely nothing for the stability of the club and in fact damages it badly short term and long term.
[Post edited 20 Nov 21:16]
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| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 08:12 - Nov 21 with 485 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 20:50 - Nov 20 by Flamingbankers |
I know people have differing views on Blackmore, but he does give honest opinions which the club sometimes don't like
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton
Adam replied: I think Sport Republic’s long-term ambitions are to create a business model that is self-sufficient in the long-term, and can produce talent that can add value to the teams they own, but also add asset value and create profit for reinvestment and sustainability by developing talent. If Sport Republic could get to the point where their multi-club model is making it easier to fund Saints to keep them in the Premier League consistently, that has to be the aim.
I can not see the logic in Adam's comments and it seems he's just backing-up his critical work associates with sports journalistic verbiage. Why would fans believe somebody so close to the club?
1. Have SR seriously done anything effective to lead the fans to believe they are preparing for self sufficiency in the future? It just seems to be a model of buy cheap and, if lucky, sell on for a profit.
How many youngsters come through the ranks compared to the days when we had a reserve side?
Any youngsters that are any good are sold on pretty much instantly.
SR have paid over the odds for youngsters that can't even reach the levels Saints require and have to be loaned out until eventually sold for barely any profit or more likely a loss.
When we get relegated any decent player will disappear.
2. How does owning 3 clubs benefit Southampton football Club? There's been absolutely no evidence of this over the 3 years and certainly no sign of it for the future.
All of this does absolutely nothing for the stability of the club and in fact damages it badly short term and long term.
[Post edited 20 Nov 21:16]
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I'm not sure on all the details but the Greek guy that owns Forest has 2 other clubs and about to buy another South American club according to reports, and they're not doing too badly this season
SR's priorities are clearly different to the Greek guy but they have also just taken on Edu from Arsenal as a football man to run that side of all 3 (4) clubs.
If SR are therefore prioritising the Turks, what happened to the idea that the Prem is the best league in the world to be involved with? | | | |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 08:47 - Nov 21 with 466 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 08:12 - Nov 21 by kingslandstand1 |
I'm not sure on all the details but the Greek guy that owns Forest has 2 other clubs and about to buy another South American club according to reports, and they're not doing too badly this season
SR's priorities are clearly different to the Greek guy but they have also just taken on Edu from Arsenal as a football man to run that side of all 3 (4) clubs.
If SR are therefore prioritising the Turks, what happened to the idea that the Prem is the best league in the world to be involved with? |
And now I've just read that the Greek has been accused of 'supporting a criminal organisation and inciting spoort related violence' back in Greece  | | | |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 09:05 - Nov 21 with 437 views | mushinexile |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 08:47 - Nov 21 by kingslandstand1 |
And now I've just read that the Greek has been accused of 'supporting a criminal organisation and inciting spoort related violence' back in Greece |
"...And now I've just read that the Greek has been accused of 'supporting a criminal organisation ..."
Didn't know they were interested in the skates! | | | |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 09:17 - Nov 21 with 420 views | saintwizzler |
Meanwhile Forest who had points deducted recently sit 5th in the PL. | |
| We thought that we had the answers,
It was the questions we had wrong. |
| |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 10:08 - Nov 21 with 404 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 09:05 - Nov 21 by mushinexile |
"...And now I've just read that the Greek has been accused of 'supporting a criminal organisation ..."
Didn't know they were interested in the skates! |
No mention of charities in the article though | | | |
| Following Man City 's Style is Fundamentally Flawed and Must stop Now on 10:23 - Nov 21 with 396 views | Ifonly |
Blackmore: "I also remind myself sometimes that what Rasmus did alongside Matthew Benham to develop Brentford between 2015-2020 shows he understands plenty about football."
I've spoken about Ankersen's propaganda before. This kind of comment shows how it works. Ankersen's PR puts out the lie that he was involved with the success at Brentford and useful idiots like Blackmore repeat it across the media until it becomes "true". This garbage is in a piece titled "Expert View". What a fckn joke.
Try thinking for a change Adam. If Ankersen was involved in the key football decisions at Brentford then why did he leave and then make the completely opposite decisions at Saints? | | | |
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