| Chris Ramsey gone on 19:39 - Jan 9 with 4107 views | lassel |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 15:42 - Jan 9 by Northernr |
Perhaps yes you have a point, I like DB, what I've seen of Kolli, Armstrong should be coachable, kakay is fine as back up (he's not back up this year, he plays every other game). But you've not far off agreed with my assessment, you're just in a much better mood and frame of mind than me, or perhaps a kinder person. |
Is Kakay really ‘fine as a backup’?
He’s currently averaging a goal per game directly cost by him and for a team as goalshy as this one, that seems quite the opposite of ‘fine as a backup’? |  | |  |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 19:59 - Jan 9 with 4012 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 19:39 - Jan 9 by lassel |
Is Kakay really ‘fine as a backup’?
He’s currently averaging a goal per game directly cost by him and for a team as goalshy as this one, that seems quite the opposite of ‘fine as a backup’? |
Yeah, seems like a nice guy and always tries. I get why people want him to succeed but his frequent lapses in concentration and diabolical positioning mean he's not a Championship level defender. Defenders need to be reliable; with Kakay, you're waiting for the mistake. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 20:23 - Jan 9 with 3940 views | Northernr |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 19:39 - Jan 9 by lassel |
Is Kakay really ‘fine as a backup’?
He’s currently averaging a goal per game directly cost by him and for a team as goalshy as this one, that seems quite the opposite of ‘fine as a backup’? |
Land of the bald etc.
And he's not back up this year, he plays every other game, that's not back up and therefore he's not fine. |  | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 20:56 - Jan 9 with 3813 views | joe90 |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 18:58 - Jan 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Cherry picked obviously, but the point stands:
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 21:01 - Jan 9 with 3780 views | benhurst |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 20:23 - Jan 9 by Northernr |
Land of the bald etc.
And he's not back up this year, he plays every other game, that's not back up and therefore he's not fine. |
I think it's more than every other game, it took until the Leeds game (10 games in) for him to miss a single minute in the league.
I think it's not a coincidence that whenever he comes in for just one game (Reading H last season, Bristol City H this season immediately come to mind) he plays pretty well, but as soon as he's playing more than one every 5 or 6 things start falling apart. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 21:14 - Jan 9 with 3740 views | Hunterhoop |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 15:40 - Jan 9 by TK1 |
Harsh.
Kakay = no, nobody in the top half. But as a squad player for a bottom half team (which he is)? Maybe.
Smyth = agreed. But has pace and scored international goals. We'd probably watch him do well for Rotherham and have threads with people saying "we should have been all over this signing".
Armstrong = 20 years-old in his first full season. Masses of potential. If he scored a goal like Saturday's against a Prem defence for, I dunno, Leicester there'd be threads hoping we could sign him on loan. Let's see where he ends up before JUDGEMENT is passed. 20 years-old.
Dixon-Bonner: At 23, he's a bit behind schedule really but he looks a good player at the level potentially. I could see him playing for Blackburn, yes. He'd improve Birmingham.
Kolli: Come on. He's 18. He went straight from U18s to 1st team. Give him a break. First full season, injured as still growing and changing body shape. Proper player, potentially.
I understand it's been a terrible 12+ months, but the previous three, four years were good. I'm not sure why everything has to be burned to the ground. There are some things worth preserving. |
I think you’re right.
Your penultimate sentence is noteworthy. I tend to agree. However, whilst everything does not need to be burnt to the ground, everything does need to be reinvigorated and given some purpose. The club is completely rudderless at the minute. There is a dearth of leadership. There is no vision being sold. No identity. Not strategy. We’re simply in survival mode waiting for the club to find new owners/investors (depending on which way you look at it). There’s not even any leadership present any more (at matches, in front of fans, in the media). And as people leave, that void gets bigger. |  | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 23:11 - Jan 9 with 3470 views | Hooping_Mad |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 19:07 - Jan 9 by Antti_Heinola |
I do love how QPR fans have collective amnesia about Barbet: for the first 16 months he was as reviled as Dunne is by sections of the crowd now. I was laughed off this board when just before Xmas of his second season I suggested he'd actually been playing very well for several weeks. I also do love a bit of self-aggrandisement :) |
I remember sticking his head together with tape against WBA and never being unavailable. I also held the same opinion back then.
Can I keep them? | |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 00:03 - Jan 10 with 3361 views | daveB |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 21:14 - Jan 9 by Hunterhoop |
I think you’re right.
Your penultimate sentence is noteworthy. I tend to agree. However, whilst everything does not need to be burnt to the ground, everything does need to be reinvigorated and given some purpose. The club is completely rudderless at the minute. There is a dearth of leadership. There is no vision being sold. No identity. Not strategy. We’re simply in survival mode waiting for the club to find new owners/investors (depending on which way you look at it). There’s not even any leadership present any more (at matches, in front of fans, in the media). And as people leave, that void gets bigger. |
They/we are desperate for fresh blood, enthusiasm and some fresh ideas.
Fans need a new scapegoat which i say in jest but I think everyone was/is bored with saying is it les's fault, Hoos, Ramsey etc, just a fresh start and a chance to feel like we're starting again. Same as when you get a new manager there is a bounce among the fans of relief and that obviously wears off quickly if they are crap but it feels all new.
Ferdinand always said that when he goes the plan they have will continue as it's the only way to do it and he was right we just need to do it a lot better |  | | |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 03:33 - Jan 10 with 3240 views | Match82 |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:40 - Jan 9 by daveB |
a few of them are among our best players at the moment which sadly says a lot, I'd agree they wouldn't get into other teams but as I say the failure is less with them as squad players getting a go more with the ones they've spent money on to be first choice who are crap.
Having players come through like Kakay, Dixon Bonner, Kolli etc who can fill in and do a job is what you want really with the odd brilliant one like an Eze who can then fund the club for the next few years. Chair probably should have been the next one but as good as he is he's a few levels below Eze still.
You go back to the 00's when we had a fair few like Pacquette, Balanta, Stefan Bailey, Marcus Bean and many others get a few few games for QPR from the academy, they did well as the ones we spent money on like Bircham, Rowlands, Furlong, Cook etc were all very good and value for money, kids that were alright but not brilliant filled out the squad for us so we could afford the good ones.
I'm not for a second looking to praise the academy or development side as there are clearly problems within it but I don't agree nobody has come through as the squad has had plenty of players who have come through over the last 10 years.
They might not have been the best quality but you go back over the years and it's usually only 1 a decade who comes though and is brilliant. Francis, Clement, Clive Allen, Gallen, Langley, Eze etc |
Not sure I agree with holding up the 00s as an example of how good or youth system was. We had well over a decade since Langley without producing someone who played for the first team regularly.
We might have historically had only one a decade coming through that is brilliant (or even "multi year first team player") but that's an appalling record for a football club and shouldn't be the bar. |  | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 08:18 - Jan 10 with 3033 views | daveB |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 03:33 - Jan 10 by Match82 |
Not sure I agree with holding up the 00s as an example of how good or youth system was. We had well over a decade since Langley without producing someone who played for the first team regularly.
We might have historically had only one a decade coming through that is brilliant (or even "multi year first team player") but that's an appalling record for a football club and shouldn't be the bar. |
Marcus Bean played 75 times for us in that era and we had quite a few who played the to cover injuries or be given a chance to make it like Stefan Bailey (22), Danny Murphy (24), Richard Pacquette (41), Dennis Oli (31) and then later Ray Jones (35). Also had Ollie burgess (14), Mark Perry (75) and the not so great Karl Ready (246) before that
None of them went on to be great players but they did come through to the first team
That's not to say the academy was working or was great, it wasn't and it isn't now but it's become a bit of a myth that no players ever come through, it's said all the time about the last 10 years but we've had loads in the first team from Furlong to Niko, Lumley to Dieng, Grego Cox to Armstrong.
We seem to spend a lot of time worrying about if they are really developed by us or not but the real key is giving young players opportunities whether they joined at 8 years old or 18. Whether they take that opportunity or not is then upto the player | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 09:59 - Jan 10 with 2833 views | TheChef |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 18:58 - Jan 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Cherry picked obviously, but the point stands:
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They can have him back then.
Will drive him there meself. |  |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 11:36 - Jan 10 with 2687 views | ed_83 |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 19:07 - Jan 9 by Antti_Heinola |
I do love how QPR fans have collective amnesia about Barbet: for the first 16 months he was as reviled as Dunne is by sections of the crowd now. I was laughed off this board when just before Xmas of his second season I suggested he'd actually been playing very well for several weeks. I also do love a bit of self-aggrandisement :) |
In fairness he was pretty iffy to begin with - gave away several penalties and had some awful games as part of a back four, then became unstoppable after Warburton switched to a back three. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 11:49 - Jan 10 with 2608 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 11:36 - Jan 10 by ed_83 |
In fairness he was pretty iffy to begin with - gave away several penalties and had some awful games as part of a back four, then became unstoppable after Warburton switched to a back three. |
I used him as one of my examples, but you and Antii are right he sort of did it in reverse to Dunne and Dickie. |  | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 12:52 - Jan 10 with 2403 views | PhilmyRs |
I liked Barbet but there's no denying he was a very different player in a back 3 to being a centre back in a 4. I think JCS is a better defender, and definitely better as part of a back 4. You can understand the logic behind the decision to release Barbet, it's just injuries have clearly made the transfer look a lot worse than it was.
I'm happy that Ramsey is an excellent coach and great developer of young talent. You can tell that by his record and how he is rated by others in the game. I don't think the success rate on bringing players through has been as good as I hoped but I think a lot of other posters have alluded to wider problems which will inevitably hamper your efforts in achieving the player development objective. I think it's probably the right time to part ways and reset.
There was a time where we had Seny in goal, Dickie at centre back, Manning left back, Bright and Chair in the midfield and Eze up front. Although not all those players came through the youth set-up, and in the case of Dickie was brought straight for the first team, it was the nucleus of an excellent young side that should have gone on to better things. We had a good model, we were getting in some decent talent that had sell on value and were improving the players which Ramsey should take some credit for, we just needed to get the right balance between young, hungry talent, and savvy, decent pros to help them settle and give us some resilience on the pitch. Not striking the right balance and then veering wildly off course has been the biggest mistake for me. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:06 - Jan 10 with 2224 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 08:18 - Jan 10 by daveB |
Marcus Bean played 75 times for us in that era and we had quite a few who played the to cover injuries or be given a chance to make it like Stefan Bailey (22), Danny Murphy (24), Richard Pacquette (41), Dennis Oli (31) and then later Ray Jones (35). Also had Ollie burgess (14), Mark Perry (75) and the not so great Karl Ready (246) before that
None of them went on to be great players but they did come through to the first team
That's not to say the academy was working or was great, it wasn't and it isn't now but it's become a bit of a myth that no players ever come through, it's said all the time about the last 10 years but we've had loads in the first team from Furlong to Niko, Lumley to Dieng, Grego Cox to Armstrong.
We seem to spend a lot of time worrying about if they are really developed by us or not but the real key is giving young players opportunities whether they joined at 8 years old or 18. Whether they take that opportunity or not is then upto the player |
Dieng was on the books of four or five clubs before he rocked up at QPR. |  |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:09 - Jan 10 with 2228 views | Northernr |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:06 - Jan 10 by stainrods_elbow |
Dieng was on the books of four or five clubs before he rocked up at QPR. |
What success stories we have had have mostly been like that - Chair, Manning, Eze, Dieng.
Furlong's the only one, really, who has come all the way through from the U8s and been a genuine success.
With EPPP working it's horrible effects the ones we try and bring all the way through mostly end up elsewhere - Alfie Gilchrist off the bench for Chelsea again last night, one of ours originally.
There's a very decent argument for ditching it and only running an u18 and U21/B Team set up, trying to pick up players at that age who've fallen out the other way. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:13 - Jan 10 with 2188 views | Rangersw12 |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:09 - Jan 10 by Northernr |
What success stories we have had have mostly been like that - Chair, Manning, Eze, Dieng.
Furlong's the only one, really, who has come all the way through from the U8s and been a genuine success.
With EPPP working it's horrible effects the ones we try and bring all the way through mostly end up elsewhere - Alfie Gilchrist off the bench for Chelsea again last night, one of ours originally.
There's a very decent argument for ditching it and only running an u18 and U21/B Team set up, trying to pick up players at that age who've fallen out the other way. |
We should have gone for a CAT 1 setup or like you say just abandon the younger levels and have an U18 and U21/B Team | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:36 - Jan 10 with 2125 views | daveB |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:06 - Jan 10 by stainrods_elbow |
Dieng was on the books of four or five clubs before he rocked up at QPR. |
So what? Kevin Gallen was at Watford before he came here
I don't really understand why certain players don't count as they signed at the wrong age or started somewhere else. Does Harvey Elliot count as he started with us but then moved on to play for someone else?
Dieng got his opportunity to be a professional footballer at QPR and was developed here before becoming a first team player, same as Joe Lumley | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:39 - Jan 10 with 2114 views | daveB |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:09 - Jan 10 by Northernr |
What success stories we have had have mostly been like that - Chair, Manning, Eze, Dieng.
Furlong's the only one, really, who has come all the way through from the U8s and been a genuine success.
With EPPP working it's horrible effects the ones we try and bring all the way through mostly end up elsewhere - Alfie Gilchrist off the bench for Chelsea again last night, one of ours originally.
There's a very decent argument for ditching it and only running an u18 and U21/B Team set up, trying to pick up players at that age who've fallen out the other way. |
didn't Kakay join as a young kid as well?
If you only go with players who joined at 8 years old then no one counts under Ramsey/Ferdinand as they would only be turning 17/18 now | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:50 - Jan 10 with 2063 views | aston_hoop |
Always nice to have a Balogun at centre back! |  |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 15:32 - Jan 10 with 1945 views | QPRConor2000 |
I wonder now that Ramsey has left, who is currently the techincal director and the head of coaching at the club?
Surely they already must already have an interim appointment already in place their current roles until they find a permanent replacement.
I might be wrong, but maybe this is a sign that the club are laying the ground for a new DOF to come in and they would head up the other changes at the club, including a new technical director, Chief Scout etc.
I also would imagine Marti would of had a say as well in Ramsey leaving the club as well. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 15:35 - Jan 10 with 1931 views | Rangersw12 |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 15:32 - Jan 10 by QPRConor2000 |
I wonder now that Ramsey has left, who is currently the techincal director and the head of coaching at the club?
Surely they already must already have an interim appointment already in place their current roles until they find a permanent replacement.
I might be wrong, but maybe this is a sign that the club are laying the ground for a new DOF to come in and they would head up the other changes at the club, including a new technical director, Chief Scout etc.
I also would imagine Marti would of had a say as well in Ramsey leaving the club as well. |
Do we even need a technical director?
Especially if we're going to appoint a DOF
I think the whole reason Ramsay left was because he's basically being doing fck all for the last few years and we didn't need him | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 15:40 - Jan 10 with 1898 views | Northernr |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 15:32 - Jan 10 by QPRConor2000 |
I wonder now that Ramsey has left, who is currently the techincal director and the head of coaching at the club?
Surely they already must already have an interim appointment already in place their current roles until they find a permanent replacement.
I might be wrong, but maybe this is a sign that the club are laying the ground for a new DOF to come in and they would head up the other changes at the club, including a new technical director, Chief Scout etc.
I also would imagine Marti would of had a say as well in Ramsey leaving the club as well. |
There'll be a new CEO shortly following Hoos moving upstairs. I think that's why it's so quiet atm, they'll speak when this guy is here and he'll be doing the speaking.
The DOF thing has gone painfully quiet, possible because they're effectively going to have this one new guy basically doing both jobs.
We've got an academy manager - Alex Carroll.
Why do we then need a technical director/head of coaching as well? This is part of the problem, too many people earning too much money we don't have and not producing results, that's the reason Ramsey has gone in the first place surely? If we don't replace him I doubt we'd notice too much. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 15:55 - Jan 10 with 1836 views | Rangersw12 |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 15:40 - Jan 10 by Northernr |
There'll be a new CEO shortly following Hoos moving upstairs. I think that's why it's so quiet atm, they'll speak when this guy is here and he'll be doing the speaking.
The DOF thing has gone painfully quiet, possible because they're effectively going to have this one new guy basically doing both jobs.
We've got an academy manager - Alex Carroll.
Why do we then need a technical director/head of coaching as well? This is part of the problem, too many people earning too much money we don't have and not producing results, that's the reason Ramsey has gone in the first place surely? If we don't replace him I doubt we'd notice too much. |
Have you heard any whispers who the new CEO is ? | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 16:04 - Jan 10 with 1792 views | slmrstid |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:36 - Jan 10 by daveB |
So what? Kevin Gallen was at Watford before he came here
I don't really understand why certain players don't count as they signed at the wrong age or started somewhere else. Does Harvey Elliot count as he started with us but then moved on to play for someone else?
Dieng got his opportunity to be a professional footballer at QPR and was developed here before becoming a first team player, same as Joe Lumley |
To understand the mindset of club bashing....if they came through only from 17/18 onwards its not a QPR success story because they've not been at QPR since they were 8.
If they were at QPR from 8 but then got nabbed by someone else at 16/17 and go into first team football, that's not a QPR success either.
Its never QPR success either way. |  | | |
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