| Universal basic income 11:24 - Jun 5 with 4921 views | britferry |
A universal basic income of £1,600 a month is to be trialled in England for the first time in a pilot programme.
Thirty people will be paid a lump sum without conditions each month for two years and will be observed to understand the effects on their lives.
Two places in England have been selected for the micro pilot scheme: central Jarrow, in north-east England, and East Finchley, in north London.
Will Stronge, the director of research at the thinktank Autonomy, which is backing the plan, said of the £1,600 figure: “This is a substantial amount. Universal basic income usually covers people’s basic needs but we want to see what effect this unconditional lump sum has on people’s mental and physical health, whether they choose to work or not.
“Our society is going to require some form of basic income in the coming years, given the tumult of climate change, tech disruption and industrial transition that lies ahead. This is why building the evidence base and public engagement now is so important, so the ground is well prepared for national implementation.”
Advocates argue that universal basic income (UBI) can provide a level of economic security to everyone. It is seen as a potential solution to insecurity in the labour market, while others say it is expensive and support should be targeted.
that'll keep the boats from crossing the channel alright 
I didnt realise it but Wales has already started trialing it
https://www.gov.wales/wales-pilots-basic-income-scheme |  |
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| Universal basic income on 12:33 - Jun 5 with 4107 views | BryanSwan |
As an idea having a universal basic income system is great, however £1600pm is a bit too much if you ask me.
Many people working full time would earn that amount or around tha amount a month. It shouldn't be equivalent to working but should be a fallback to allow people the ability to live when out of work for whatever reason. | |
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| Universal basic income on 13:55 - Jun 5 with 4050 views | PawelAbbott |
If everyone had £1600 a month given to them inflation will be through the roof!!
How much would a business have to pay to get people to work for them if they could happily get by not working? | | | |
| Universal basic income on 14:00 - Jun 5 with 4039 views | controversial_jack |
| Universal basic income on 13:55 - Jun 5 by PawelAbbott |
If everyone had £1600 a month given to them inflation will be through the roof!!
How much would a business have to pay to get people to work for them if they could happily get by not working? |
Wages haven't kept pace with inflation as it is. It's not wages that are increasing inflation, so that's another Neo lib economic myth well and truly busted. | | | |
| Universal basic income on 15:37 - Jun 5 with 3999 views | ThurrockJack92 |
UBI can only work when the primary driver of economic productivity is something other than humans imo. It seems absolutely inevitable if everything is done by AI, but a bad idea when the economic output is dependant on human motivation. |  | | |
| Universal basic income on 17:52 - Jun 5 with 3956 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Universal basic income on 15:37 - Jun 5 by ThurrockJack92 |
UBI can only work when the primary driver of economic productivity is something other than humans imo. It seems absolutely inevitable if everything is done by AI, but a bad idea when the economic output is dependant on human motivation. |
Oooh, good post. Hoe's this, when the machines and AAi are doing almost everything, whatever is left is split up equally amongst us humans.
It'll all be fine until Will Smith starts shouting that the robots are taking over | | | |
| Universal basic income on 04:25 - Jun 6 with 3884 views | PawelAbbott |
| Universal basic income on 14:00 - Jun 5 by controversial_jack |
Wages haven't kept pace with inflation as it is. It's not wages that are increasing inflation, so that's another Neo lib economic myth well and truly busted. |
There are many different causes of inflation. At the moment, what we are seeing is as much about the fuel prices and fear that is driving inflation. That is why hiking interest rates is having no effect. Interest rate increases are designed to increase unemployment and so drive down wage demands, but this has a double down effect on poverty and no effect on inflation when inflation is driven by external factors, such as wars in one of the world's largest agricultural producers and fuel suppliers.
However, by setting a minimum level of base income the effect on socio-economics would be that in order to give value to a person's time the value would have to be considerably higher than the universal income. Why work for an extra £10 an hour if you are given £10 for no work? If all basic needs are met with the universal income, then many would look on that as sufficient.
In a world where there is no work to do as computers do it all then that is fine, but that will never happen.
The same concerns have happened many times through history and have been proven false. At the start of the industrial revolution with the introduction of mechanised processes, the start of the use of computers, the use of robots in factories. These things open up new opportunities as much as they close old. | | | |
| Universal basic income on 09:31 - Jun 6 with 3832 views | controversial_jack |
| Universal basic income on 04:25 - Jun 6 by PawelAbbott |
There are many different causes of inflation. At the moment, what we are seeing is as much about the fuel prices and fear that is driving inflation. That is why hiking interest rates is having no effect. Interest rate increases are designed to increase unemployment and so drive down wage demands, but this has a double down effect on poverty and no effect on inflation when inflation is driven by external factors, such as wars in one of the world's largest agricultural producers and fuel suppliers.
However, by setting a minimum level of base income the effect on socio-economics would be that in order to give value to a person's time the value would have to be considerably higher than the universal income. Why work for an extra £10 an hour if you are given £10 for no work? If all basic needs are met with the universal income, then many would look on that as sufficient.
In a world where there is no work to do as computers do it all then that is fine, but that will never happen.
The same concerns have happened many times through history and have been proven false. At the start of the industrial revolution with the introduction of mechanised processes, the start of the use of computers, the use of robots in factories. These things open up new opportunities as much as they close old. |
Good post. Inflation, however we look at it or whatever causes it , is simply too much money circulating in the economy. Yes' it could very well be the price of fuel. This is what happened in the 70s, when Opec cut oil production because the west supported Israel in the war. Supply was cut back, prices increased, the amount on money needed to buy the oil increased, therefore inflation. Interest rates were put up, but didn't have much of an effect.Thatcher conveniently blamed high spending on the welfare state for the inflation.The Saudis were convinced by the Americans to increase production, they did and inflation began to fall.
My other theory is; after the world opened up after covid, consumers went nuts and just spent like fools. Restaurants, supermarkets, pubs etc put up prices significantly to grap this spending spree while it lasted. I think inflation will decrease as ppl will simply run out of spending money. | | | |
| Universal basic income on 10:15 - Jun 6 with 3827 views | PawelAbbott |
| Universal basic income on 09:31 - Jun 6 by controversial_jack |
Good post. Inflation, however we look at it or whatever causes it , is simply too much money circulating in the economy. Yes' it could very well be the price of fuel. This is what happened in the 70s, when Opec cut oil production because the west supported Israel in the war. Supply was cut back, prices increased, the amount on money needed to buy the oil increased, therefore inflation. Interest rates were put up, but didn't have much of an effect.Thatcher conveniently blamed high spending on the welfare state for the inflation.The Saudis were convinced by the Americans to increase production, they did and inflation began to fall.
My other theory is; after the world opened up after covid, consumers went nuts and just spent like fools. Restaurants, supermarkets, pubs etc put up prices significantly to grap this spending spree while it lasted. I think inflation will decrease as ppl will simply run out of spending money. |
Raising interest rates to reduce inflation is morally disgusting and rarely works. The whole plan hinges on making masses of people redundant or just grateful to have a job so that they don't ask for pay rises.
The banks suddenly make a fortune from the increased interest on debt whilst the poor struggle to make ends meet. | | | |
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| Universal basic income on 10:18 - Jun 6 with 3822 views | Dr_Winston |
The hospitality sector was forced to increase wages in order to attract people to work in the hospitality sector. After two years of lockdowns for some reason a lot of folks decided that they didn't want to do unsocial hours any more. Many places are still struggling to get staff.
Profiteering had nothing to do with it. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Universal basic income on 12:56 - Jun 6 with 3767 views | controversial_jack |
| Universal basic income on 10:15 - Jun 6 by PawelAbbott |
Raising interest rates to reduce inflation is morally disgusting and rarely works. The whole plan hinges on making masses of people redundant or just grateful to have a job so that they don't ask for pay rises.
The banks suddenly make a fortune from the increased interest on debt whilst the poor struggle to make ends meet. |
It is disgusting, but in reality, economists use unemployment as a tool to control spending etc.
Banks do make a fortune, and rarely pass on the interest rates to savers | | | |
| Universal basic income on 12:59 - Jun 6 with 3765 views | controversial_jack |
| Universal basic income on 10:18 - Jun 6 by Dr_Winston |
The hospitality sector was forced to increase wages in order to attract people to work in the hospitality sector. After two years of lockdowns for some reason a lot of folks decided that they didn't want to do unsocial hours any more. Many places are still struggling to get staff.
Profiteering had nothing to do with it. |
Nonsense, have you seen how much prices have risen and portions have decreased. It's blatant profiteering and nothing else.
Many places have gone through, because they refuse to drop their prices. Restaurant owners want to get rich quick instead of looking upon it as just another job to make a living from | | | |
| Universal basic income on 13:26 - Jun 6 with 3757 views | krunchykarrot |
Labour introduced a trial in Wales some time ago, wonder how that is going? |  | | |
| Universal basic income on 13:57 - Jun 6 with 3738 views | Gwyn737 |
| Universal basic income on 10:18 - Jun 6 by Dr_Winston |
The hospitality sector was forced to increase wages in order to attract people to work in the hospitality sector. After two years of lockdowns for some reason a lot of folks decided that they didn't want to do unsocial hours any more. Many places are still struggling to get staff.
Profiteering had nothing to do with it. |
And that's had a knock on effect to public sevices.
Austerity has kept wage rises comparatively low over the last 13 years leading to mass vacancies.
Anti-social hours is a good point too. As other industries are making adjustments to working patterns (4 day weeks, flexible working, work from home etc) many public servie jobs don't offer this
All this feeds into all the recent and ongoing strike action. | | | |
| Universal basic income on 14:54 - Jun 6 with 3719 views | BryanSwan |
| Universal basic income on 12:59 - Jun 6 by controversial_jack |
Nonsense, have you seen how much prices have risen and portions have decreased. It's blatant profiteering and nothing else.
Many places have gone through, because they refuse to drop their prices. Restaurant owners want to get rich quick instead of looking upon it as just another job to make a living from |
So the increase to produce and the shortage on staff are in now way affecting prices at restaurants?
If you want decent food you have to pay decent prices, if you want microwave meals there is always wetherspoons etc. | |
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| Universal basic income on 14:59 - Jun 6 with 3719 views | Dr_Winston |
| Universal basic income on 13:57 - Jun 6 by Gwyn737 |
And that's had a knock on effect to public sevices.
Austerity has kept wage rises comparatively low over the last 13 years leading to mass vacancies.
Anti-social hours is a good point too. As other industries are making adjustments to working patterns (4 day weeks, flexible working, work from home etc) many public servie jobs don't offer this
All this feeds into all the recent and ongoing strike action. |
I suspect the recent spate of public sector action is two thirds pay/conditions and one third sticking it to the Government if I'm being honest.
A lot of people saw quality of life as a big thing during lockdowns. The cost of living crisis might force a few to reconsider, but as I've said before, that is mostly impacting on people who can't afford to pick and choose anyway. [Post edited 6 Jun 2023 15:07]
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| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Universal basic income on 16:54 - Jun 6 with 3671 views | controversial_jack |
| Universal basic income on 14:54 - Jun 6 by BryanSwan |
So the increase to produce and the shortage on staff are in now way affecting prices at restaurants?
If you want decent food you have to pay decent prices, if you want microwave meals there is always wetherspoons etc. |
They did have an affect, but not to those degrees. | | | |
| Universal basic income on 18:25 - Jun 6 with 3645 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Universal basic income on 04:25 - Jun 6 by PawelAbbott |
There are many different causes of inflation. At the moment, what we are seeing is as much about the fuel prices and fear that is driving inflation. That is why hiking interest rates is having no effect. Interest rate increases are designed to increase unemployment and so drive down wage demands, but this has a double down effect on poverty and no effect on inflation when inflation is driven by external factors, such as wars in one of the world's largest agricultural producers and fuel suppliers.
However, by setting a minimum level of base income the effect on socio-economics would be that in order to give value to a person's time the value would have to be considerably higher than the universal income. Why work for an extra £10 an hour if you are given £10 for no work? If all basic needs are met with the universal income, then many would look on that as sufficient.
In a world where there is no work to do as computers do it all then that is fine, but that will never happen.
The same concerns have happened many times through history and have been proven false. At the start of the industrial revolution with the introduction of mechanised processes, the start of the use of computers, the use of robots in factories. These things open up new opportunities as much as they close old. |
maybe so but when AI is being used to whatever potential it reaches then humans will be practically extinct in the workplace. Robots with AI could work 24/7 and very few jobs will survive that.
The upside could be it would render money meaningless. | | | |
| Universal basic income on 10:12 - Jun 9 with 3522 views | mangohilljack |
It's all part of the masterplan. Agenda 2030 which is being brought forward as quickly as they can. UBI will not be the freebie everybody thinks it is when they bring in the digital currency/ID or even worse the social credit system.
If you don't pull your weight they'll lock you out of society with the touch of a button.
it's mind boggling how obvious it is but yet many still can't see the wood for the tree's.
If you want to see our tomorrow, look at China's today. | | | |
| Universal basic income on 10:22 - Jun 9 with 3514 views | onehunglow |
| Universal basic income on 10:12 - Jun 9 by mangohilljack |
It's all part of the masterplan. Agenda 2030 which is being brought forward as quickly as they can. UBI will not be the freebie everybody thinks it is when they bring in the digital currency/ID or even worse the social credit system.
If you don't pull your weight they'll lock you out of society with the touch of a button.
it's mind boggling how obvious it is but yet many still can't see the wood for the tree's.
If you want to see our tomorrow, look at China's today. |
China’s today?
Well no,it’s for all of us .
You seem to be one that believes life is a conspiracy and only you can see it.
You are quite wrong.
Things really are ,more often than not,as they seem. | |
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| Universal basic income on 10:36 - Jun 9 with 3513 views | mangohilljack |
| Universal basic income on 10:22 - Jun 9 by onehunglow |
China’s today?
Well no,it’s for all of us .
You seem to be one that believes life is a conspiracy and only you can see it.
You are quite wrong.
Things really are ,more often than not,as they seem. |
I know what is going on, you clearly don't.
those brave men that gave their lives for our freedoms will be turning in their graves | | | |
| Universal basic income on 19:08 - Jun 9 with 3474 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Universal basic income on 10:36 - Jun 9 by mangohilljack |
I know what is going on, you clearly don't.
those brave men that gave their lives for our freedoms will be turning in their graves |
No, you know what you think is going on. Wait til 2030 then we'll see, it's only 6 years and a bit... | | | |
| Universal basic income on 05:02 - Jun 13 with 3358 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Universal basic income on 13:57 - Jun 6 by Gwyn737 |
And that's had a knock on effect to public sevices.
Austerity has kept wage rises comparatively low over the last 13 years leading to mass vacancies.
Anti-social hours is a good point too. As other industries are making adjustments to working patterns (4 day weeks, flexible working, work from home etc) many public servie jobs don't offer this
All this feeds into all the recent and ongoing strike action. |
Only wages have risen by more than inflation for most of the last 13 years when inflation was running between 1 and 2%.
It is only the last two years when inflation has soared due to Covoid, global supply shortage following Covoid, global energy crisis and the Russian invasion of Ukraine which pushed up global food prices and global energy prices.
Even them public sector pensions have just had a 10% increase from 5th April. | |
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| Universal basic income on 07:32 - Jun 13 with 3333 views | Gwyn737 |
| Universal basic income on 05:02 - Jun 13 by felixstowe_jack |
Only wages have risen by more than inflation for most of the last 13 years when inflation was running between 1 and 2%.
It is only the last two years when inflation has soared due to Covoid, global supply shortage following Covoid, global energy crisis and the Russian invasion of Ukraine which pushed up global food prices and global energy prices.
Even them public sector pensions have just had a 10% increase from 5th April. |
I was referring to public service wages that didn’t keep pace with inflation between 2010 and 2019. That was nothing to do with COVID or Ukaraine - straw man arguments in this instance.
There continue to be massive vacancies in the system. In education, the covid years saw recruitment numbers rise which always in times of crisis. Now we’ve moved on there are nowhere near enough and it’s getting worse day by day.
The tories splashed over social media last week that there are 28,000 more teachers than there were when they took over. They must have forgot to mention there are 880,000 more children in school.
As for the pension increase, how does that help current workers? It not going to them, it’s going in the pot. Maybe it has to fill a hole from Truss’ numbskullery 🤷🻠| | | |
| Universal basic income on 18:04 - Jun 13 with 3258 views | majorraglan |
| Universal basic income on 05:02 - Jun 13 by felixstowe_jack |
Only wages have risen by more than inflation for most of the last 13 years when inflation was running between 1 and 2%.
It is only the last two years when inflation has soared due to Covoid, global supply shortage following Covoid, global energy crisis and the Russian invasion of Ukraine which pushed up global food prices and global energy prices.
Even them public sector pensions have just had a 10% increase from 5th April. |
Not according to the ONS.
Using the lowest of the 3 inflationary measures used by the Government it’s clear average wage growth for most of the last 13 years has been lower than inflation, if you’re a public sector worker it’s even worse and the erosion of a police officer or nurses pay has been significant. | | | |
| Universal basic income on 19:00 - Jun 13 with 3225 views | Gwyn737 |
| Universal basic income on 18:04 - Jun 13 by majorraglan |
Not according to the ONS.
Using the lowest of the 3 inflationary measures used by the Government it’s clear average wage growth for most of the last 13 years has been lower than inflation, if you’re a public sector worker it’s even worse and the erosion of a police officer or nurses pay has been significant. |
I think you’ll find the government has had quite enough of experts 😉 | | | |
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