| DoF 19:57 - Jan 7 with 18202 views | RuislipHoop |
Les F and Chris R have been in charge of Football at this club since 2015,recruitment,technical and all playing matters with not a sign of success at any level,at wot point do the owners think “ maybe this isnt working ?” |  | | |  |
| DoF on 08:05 - Jan 9 with 1895 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| DoF on 00:16 - Jan 9 by PunteR |
15-20 years..?.
We're not reforming a country We're just talking about promotion out of the championship ffs. |
How many years does it take a 8 year old joining the club to hit his peak presuming that’s between 25 and 30?
This is the problem. We think success starts and ends with promotion. It’s important obviously but you need the facilities and culture first.
Otherwise you have a 2014 situation all over again. [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 8:08]
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| DoF on 08:20 - Jan 9 with 1854 views | Dixie_CT |
Success is primarily based on player recruitment, coaching, and financial sustainability.
This academy stuff is becoming a pipe dream, which needs reviewing. |  | | |
| DoF on 08:24 - Jan 9 with 1839 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| DoF on 08:20 - Jan 9 by Dixie_CT |
Success is primarily based on player recruitment, coaching, and financial sustainability.
This academy stuff is becoming a pipe dream, which needs reviewing. |
Financial stability depends on producing players from academy or otherwise. | | | |
| DoF on 08:32 - Jan 9 with 1812 views | JamesB1979 |
| DoF on 08:24 - Jan 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Financial stability depends on producing players from academy or otherwise. |
I think having an academy with all that comes with it is a “nice to have” for a club with resources like ours. Scrap the entire system, save the money and use the cash toimprove the 1st team. 1st team results are all that matters to inspire next generation. Pick up youth players that are dropped from the Cat A academies. We’re all old enough to have moments to reminisce about. What do kids in west London have to talk about? Playoff final was decade ago. | | | |
| DoF on 08:36 - Jan 9 with 1797 views | Dixie_CT |
| DoF on 08:24 - Jan 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Financial stability depends on producing players from academy or otherwise. |
Does it?
Which similar club operates on that model? | | | |
| DoF on 08:49 - Jan 9 with 1756 views | Rangersw12 |
| DoF on 23:30 - Jan 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
It’s seven and a half years. This project needs 15-20 at least wether Les is the right man for the job or not.
I’d be questioning the quality, let alone the sanity of anyone wanting to join a club with no prospect of increased income, in not great form, a interfering board, who are three managers deep in the same calendar year.
It’s a problem that needs to be fixed when the sun is shining if you ask me.
Always good to have someone in mind though. [Post edited 8 Jan 2023 23:47]
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Another 10 years of this and we will more than likely be the worst team in London
How many more clubs are going to have to overtake us for people to realise this isn't acceptable!?
Yes I get FFP but we waste ridiculous amount of money every year and the culture hasn't changed that much either [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 8:50]
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| DoF on 08:52 - Jan 9 with 1751 views | Dixie_CT |
For me the academy is an expenditure we need to review as currently it is keeping a lot of people employed and not producing many results.
The case study of Eze is a good one although the management of the club and one’s proposing that vision have had the dream scenario yet it has only lead us being capable of standing still rather than progressing.
Unless we find some more Harvey Elliot’s and Alfie Gilchrist’s between the ages of 6-8 and manage to retain them, it is a waste of time.
Even with the best staff/coaches, player recruitment and coaching methods in the world, we are always going to be hamstrung under EPPP by being a Cat 2 Academy which allows Cat 1’s to come in and plunder you. | | | |
| DoF on 09:00 - Jan 9 with 1727 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| DoF on 08:36 - Jan 9 by Dixie_CT |
Does it?
Which similar club operates on that model? |
Literally every single one.
The most obvious example is Southampton though. They are the club that is the epitome of where we should be. [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 9:01]
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| DoF on 09:04 - Jan 9 with 1705 views | Dixie_CT |
| DoF on 09:00 - Jan 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Literally every single one.
The most obvious example is Southampton though. They are the club that is the epitome of where we should be. [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 9:01]
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Maybe I’m confused but you’re saying that every other club has an Academy that produces players for the first team or sells on at a profit that keeps the club financial afloat? | | | |
| DoF on 09:07 - Jan 9 with 1694 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| DoF on 09:04 - Jan 9 by Dixie_CT |
Maybe I’m confused but you’re saying that every other club has an Academy that produces players for the first team or sells on at a profit that keeps the club financial afloat? |
No, that isn’t what I said. | | | |
| DoF on 10:33 - Jan 9 with 1590 views | paulparker |
| DoF on 23:30 - Jan 8 by BazzaInTheLoft |
It’s seven and a half years. This project needs 15-20 at least wether Les is the right man for the job or not.
I’d be questioning the quality, let alone the sanity of anyone wanting to join a club with no prospect of increased income, in not great form, a interfering board, who are three managers deep in the same calendar year.
It’s a problem that needs to be fixed when the sun is shining if you ask me.
Always good to have someone in mind though. [Post edited 8 Jan 2023 23:47]
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20 years !!! Oh come on
So AFC Wimbledon can be playing park football with no registered players , have a new stadium and be a league club
Forget Les the striker , he is a legend but DOF not for me and proof has been in the pudding for a while , anyone else would have gone after last years shambles |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| DoF on 10:44 - Jan 9 with 1561 views | PunteR |
| DoF on 08:05 - Jan 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
How many years does it take a 8 year old joining the club to hit his peak presuming that’s between 25 and 30?
This is the problem. We think success starts and ends with promotion. It’s important obviously but you need the facilities and culture first.
Otherwise you have a 2014 situation all over again. [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 8:08]
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8 year olds..?
Why don't we just start breeding new born babies from the DNA of former QPR players. We need a striker, so let's see if Ferdinand can donate his sperm for this new project . We should be good to go by 2047. |  |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| DoF on 10:45 - Jan 9 with 1558 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| DoF on 10:33 - Jan 9 by paulparker |
20 years !!! Oh come on
So AFC Wimbledon can be playing park football with no registered players , have a new stadium and be a league club
Forget Les the striker , he is a legend but DOF not for me and proof has been in the pudding for a while , anyone else would have gone after last years shambles |
Wimbledon have been chasing a new stadium since 1991.
The question has been posed on another thread: 'What would you do as DoF'
Would love to hear your answer PP. Genuinely. | | | |
| DoF on 10:49 - Jan 9 with 1523 views | Wegerles_Stairs |
| DoF on 10:33 - Jan 9 by paulparker |
20 years !!! Oh come on
So AFC Wimbledon can be playing park football with no registered players , have a new stadium and be a league club
Forget Les the striker , he is a legend but DOF not for me and proof has been in the pudding for a while , anyone else would have gone after last years shambles |
Last season has to be a red flag. Whatever went on between the DoF and Warburton derailed what should have been a straightforward push for the play-offs. How we failed to make them considering the position we were in is incredible. Get a decent striker in during that window and we're laughing. We're still feeling the fallout from that now - we pushed the boat out in terms of wages in building the team to make the play-offs, so letting it all go to sh*t like that is inexcusable.
Obviously, we hear the Chinese whispers, so don't know the full story but if Warbuton was undermined for challenging the quality of the players coming through, then he has been proved 100% correct. | | | |
| DoF on 10:49 - Jan 9 with 1537 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| DoF on 10:44 - Jan 9 by PunteR |
8 year olds..?
Why don't we just start breeding new born babies from the DNA of former QPR players. We need a striker, so let's see if Ferdinand can donate his sperm for this new project . We should be good to go by 2047. |
Sorry mate, I have no idea what that means. | | | |
| DoF on 10:56 - Jan 9 with 1512 views | TheChef |
| DoF on 10:26 - Jan 8 by davman |
...the correct statement.
Even if we get new owners, the CLUB is still in the FFP pickle, so won't be able to spend their way out of it. The solution here has to be to calm the feck down a bit and let the coach coach what he has. They may be demotivated at the moment, but the core of our first eleven are good Championship players and at the very worst we should finish mid-table. They may have showed signs of downing tools yesterday, but they've done that before and bounced back, so fingers crossed the period since the PBBC screwed us over will prove to be a blip.
If not, and they really have downed tools, we are f**ked and there is nothing any coach, DoF or owners can do to change that and even less than we, as the fans can do other than watch the train wreck develop.
No-one coming in will turn this round unless they can get the EFL to change the current rules put in place to stop clubs like us getting ideas above our station.
Happy New Year (same as the previous few...). |
Better the devil you know.
Because you know whoever those new owners might be, we'd end up with the worst kind of dodgy asset strippers. |  |
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| DoF on 10:59 - Jan 9 with 1501 views | Dixie_CT |
Unfortunately behind a pay wall but a quick google found this article:
https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-academy-players-figures-appear
Does give you some indication of your chances of successfully training young players up to become pros. I would be interested in what evidence our current strategy is based upon?
If the majority of pro clubs are trying to achieve the same thing, then what makes us think we will be more successful? If it is based on people saying we will, than that is nothing more than ego and conjecture. | | | |
| DoF on 11:19 - Jan 9 with 1457 views | Sonofpugwash |
| DoF on 10:44 - Jan 9 by PunteR |
8 year olds..?
Why don't we just start breeding new born babies from the DNA of former QPR players. We need a striker, so let's see if Ferdinand can donate his sperm for this new project . We should be good to go by 2047. |
Don't worry Our Elon will have probably come up with an android/cyborg player by then.
Beep. |  |
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| DoF on 11:21 - Jan 9 with 1454 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| DoF on 10:59 - Jan 9 by Dixie_CT |
Unfortunately behind a pay wall but a quick google found this article:
https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league-academy-players-figures-appear
Does give you some indication of your chances of successfully training young players up to become pros. I would be interested in what evidence our current strategy is based upon?
If the majority of pro clubs are trying to achieve the same thing, then what makes us think we will be more successful? If it is based on people saying we will, than that is nothing more than ego and conjecture. |
Assuming you purely mean academies only and not late recruits like Eze or Dieng...
1) That's Premier League. With the EFL it's 30%.
2) 3% of 200 players is six players a season.
3) We don't have a choice. [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 11:22]
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| DoF on 11:37 - Jan 9 with 1415 views | swisscottage |
| DoF on 08:32 - Jan 9 by JamesB1979 |
I think having an academy with all that comes with it is a “nice to have” for a club with resources like ours. Scrap the entire system, save the money and use the cash toimprove the 1st team. 1st team results are all that matters to inspire next generation. Pick up youth players that are dropped from the Cat A academies. We’re all old enough to have moments to reminisce about. What do kids in west London have to talk about? Playoff final was decade ago. |
"Scrap the entire system, save the money and use the cash toimprove the 1st team."
And there's the flaw.
You're assuming that any costs from the academy system can be reinvested into the first team.
That isn't the case.
The academy costs do not contribute to FFP calculations.
It is in fact an area the owners can pile money into the club that over time can benefit the first team, without being included in FFP.
If the owner put in 100mil into the academy system over ten years that generates 30 million pounds worth of players for the first team and that could be sold ... that is effectively 30million going into the first team that couldn't otherwise be put in. these numbers are inflated but are just to make an illustration.
Its incredibly inefficient effectively getting 30p in the pound out of your investment, but is a way to top up the first team in the long term over and above what's allowed from FFP..
LF returned as DoF in 2014 and alongside Chris Ramsey was appointed.
I think it took at least 2 years to properly restart the youth system at all levels.
Bear in mind this is a new youth system, and not established, so you don't have a conveyor belt of players .. players you get in at the older age groups may not really be the level of quality needed, but they just form a base.
the under 9s from 2014 are now probably now just playing in the U18s.
Strangely enough, the U18s seem to be doing quite well this season, 8 wins 5 defeats, recently beating Spuds U18s in 3rd round of their FACup
[Post edited 9 Jan 2023 11:51]
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| DoF on 11:43 - Jan 9 with 1397 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| DoF on 11:37 - Jan 9 by swisscottage |
"Scrap the entire system, save the money and use the cash toimprove the 1st team."
And there's the flaw.
You're assuming that any costs from the academy system can be reinvested into the first team.
That isn't the case.
The academy costs do not contribute to FFP calculations.
It is in fact an area the owners can pile money into the club that over time can benefit the first team, without being included in FFP.
If the owner put in 100mil into the academy system over ten years that generates 30 million pounds worth of players for the first team and that could be sold ... that is effectively 30million going into the first team that couldn't otherwise be put in. these numbers are inflated but are just to make an illustration.
Its incredibly inefficient effectively getting 30p in the pound out of your investment, but is a way to top up the first team in the long term over and above what's allowed from FFP..
LF returned as DoF in 2014 and alongside Chris Ramsey was appointed.
I think it took at least 2 years to properly restart the youth system at all levels.
Bear in mind this is a new youth system, and not established, so you don't have a conveyor belt of players .. players you get in at the older age groups may not really be the level of quality needed, but they just form a base.
the under 9s from 2014 are now probably now just playing in the U18s.
Strangely enough, the U18s seem to be doing quite well this season, 8 wins 5 defeats, recently beating Spuds U18s in 3rd round of their FACup
[Post edited 9 Jan 2023 11:51]
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| DoF on 11:55 - Jan 9 with 1375 views | davman |
| DoF on 11:37 - Jan 9 by swisscottage |
"Scrap the entire system, save the money and use the cash toimprove the 1st team."
And there's the flaw.
You're assuming that any costs from the academy system can be reinvested into the first team.
That isn't the case.
The academy costs do not contribute to FFP calculations.
It is in fact an area the owners can pile money into the club that over time can benefit the first team, without being included in FFP.
If the owner put in 100mil into the academy system over ten years that generates 30 million pounds worth of players for the first team and that could be sold ... that is effectively 30million going into the first team that couldn't otherwise be put in. these numbers are inflated but are just to make an illustration.
Its incredibly inefficient effectively getting 30p in the pound out of your investment, but is a way to top up the first team in the long term over and above what's allowed from FFP..
LF returned as DoF in 2014 and alongside Chris Ramsey was appointed.
I think it took at least 2 years to properly restart the youth system at all levels.
Bear in mind this is a new youth system, and not established, so you don't have a conveyor belt of players .. players you get in at the older age groups may not really be the level of quality needed, but they just form a base.
the under 9s from 2014 are now probably now just playing in the U18s.
Strangely enough, the U18s seem to be doing quite well this season, 8 wins 5 defeats, recently beating Spuds U18s in 3rd round of their FACup
[Post edited 9 Jan 2023 11:51]
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The flaw there J is that this lot know that, but like the New Stadium, they are unwilling (clearly) to invest this money. Your logic is sound and the owners maintain that they want to invest, but can't because of FFP / P&S, but when push comes to shove, nah.
In any case, our one significant success has been in picking up players discarded by others; not really an "academy" product really.
Where does the FFP accounting start and stop though? If we were to start paying wages to academy players higher than what others do, we could buy a cheap load of prospects at 16 and hope that a couple make it; that's the same type of gamble you are advocating...
As I say, all well and good talking about keeping an academy, but the black and white facts are that, with the exception of Eze, Furlong and perhaps Kakay, it has produced nothing of note since Richard Langley. A big old waste of time on that evidence and how much has it cost when offset against the £17m it has produced.
It is not good enough and we simply can't wait another 20 years to see if its working now; if our current rate of achievement continues, the club won't be around then anyway...
Hope you are well BTW and Happy New Year! |  |
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| DoF on 12:17 - Jan 9 with 1304 views | Dixie_CT |
| DoF on 11:21 - Jan 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Assuming you purely mean academies only and not late recruits like Eze or Dieng...
1) That's Premier League. With the EFL it's 30%.
2) 3% of 200 players is six players a season.
3) We don't have a choice. [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 11:22]
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Dieng played about 50 first team games before he ended up at QPR.
1) How many at Championship level? How many play 100+ games or are sold?
2) isn’t that six players across the 20 PL clubs?
3) We do have a choice.
I think you also have to take into account London being a super competitive market compared to other parts of the country. Southampton have a broad and exclusive geographic reach and even they have satellites in London at the Westway in W10. | | | |
| DoF on 12:17 - Jan 9 with 1303 views | paulparker |
| DoF on 10:45 - Jan 9 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Wimbledon have been chasing a new stadium since 1991.
The question has been posed on another thread: 'What would you do as DoF'
Would love to hear your answer PP. Genuinely. |
Wimbledon had 2 dodgy owners and were no where near securing plough lane until they reformed as AFC Wimbledon, they went from park football to league one and had a new stadium built in less than 20 years , we can’t get anyone through our academy in 8 years and sold for a profit
As for what I would do are you asking me right now or when Les took the role back In 2015 ? | |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| DoF on 12:22 - Jan 9 with 1278 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| DoF on 12:17 - Jan 9 by paulparker |
Wimbledon had 2 dodgy owners and were no where near securing plough lane until they reformed as AFC Wimbledon, they went from park football to league one and had a new stadium built in less than 20 years , we can’t get anyone through our academy in 8 years and sold for a profit
As for what I would do are you asking me right now or when Les took the role back In 2015 ? |
You say in one post that 20 years is too long, and then say in another that AFC Wimbledon should be praised for getting a new stadium within 20 years.
We don't have an academy by the way, but if you mean from the Youth Set up then we have sold £20m plus.
As for the question, both. [Post edited 9 Jan 2023 12:25]
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