Forum | So is the Martinball experiment dead? by Dr

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So is the Martinball experiment dead? 21:39 - Sep 3 with 9275 views

What on earth has happened here?

Last season I touched upon the key metrics Martin judges performance by, being vastly different to what everyone else does - to the point that “success” in those Martinball areas (pass count, possession, pass number) was actually hindering the result and a reduction in all of the above correlates directly to higher points.

45% possession, 423 passes 19.9% long balls (?!)

No passing for passings sake, no short balls at all costs mantra, no pointless possession just to keep hold of the ball. So refreshing.

In our last two games we have averaged 48% possession and got 4 points from 6.

Martin has either been given an absolute roasting or he’s had an epiphany that what he was doing was never going to work.

Either one is fine by me. I rarely get excited by wins these days knowing that it’s very likely Martinball will be back the next week…. But this time it feels different, I think the witch may actually be dead?

Well done Martin for finally changing it and of course well done to the players. Let’s finally play to this squads ability.

	Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Poll:	Would you swap Ayew for Piroe?

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 08:46 - Sep 6 with 1108 views

vetchonian

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 08:16 - Sep 6 by magicdaps10

BBC quite regularly post strange formations before, during and after games.

If you were listening on the commentary then you obviously were not at the game but I can assure you without fail that they lined up with a 3 man defence and very quickly moved to a back 4.........its what happened.
Cabango started centrally the game central of a 3 and then obviously changed when the formation change happened....maybe that explains the mix up of where Cabango started.

As I said in one of my previous posts, I might have got the timing of the change wrong but we deffo started a back 3 and swiftly went to a back 4.
The view from the box is a superb view and certainly a better place to see things than watching the TV or listening to someone on the radio.

I was definitely there daps it is possible to attend and listen to the commentary you know

My view from my seat is perfect too.

so the back three was ?
If Cabango supposedly started in the centre that must mean Manning was on the left Wood on the Right so where was Naughton?
What formation were we playing?

Sorinola and Pato were being used as "wingers" in the midfield 5
So where and what was Naugthon doing?
I sit in the West Wood was not anywhere between me and Cabango in the first 5 mins.

We started with a flat back four from L-R Manning, Cabango Wood Naughton
I dont even know why Im wasting my time debating this

why has Russ never made tactical changes early in games before?

DO you really believe a manager can suss how the opposition are going to play after 40 secs?

Poll:

Will CCFC win a game this season?

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 08:49 - Sep 6 with 1100 views

Dr_Parnassus

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 08:41 - Sep 6 by Dr_Parnassus

The guy is in la-la land.

But hey, we are missing the magic waving of the hand on 40 seconds that changed everything. The formation magically changed, all the players knew exactly how to change to a mixed and direct game focussing a lot on long balls, knew not to mess about with it at the back - all the weeks prep out the window and changed in an instant with the magic hand wave.

Like a managerial Shin Lim.

[Post edited 6 Sep 2022 8:54]

Just added another 3 sources.

The guy doesn’t even know what side Cabango played on let alone the formation.

Scary.

[Post edited 6 Sep 2022 8:55]

	Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Poll:	Would you swap Ayew for Piroe?

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:32 - Sep 6 with 1036 views

magicdaps10

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 08:41 - Sep 6 by Dr_Parnassus

The guy is in la-la land.

[Post edited 6 Sep 2022 8:54]

They all show a 4-4-2 but we reverted to a 4-5-1 and ended it as a 4-3-3.

Those little screenshot are wrong anyway.

Poll:

Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:34 - Sep 6 with 1026 views

Dr_Parnassus

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:32 - Sep 6 by magicdaps10
They all show a 4-4-2 but we reverted to a 4-5-1 and ended it as a 4-3-3. Those little screenshot are wrong anyway.

You said we started with wingbacks and changed to a 4 at the back after 40 seconds

Daps, just log off.

Dust yourself off and go again next week.

	Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Poll:	Would you swap Ayew for Piroe?

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:38 - Sep 6 with 1015 views

magicdaps10

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 08:46 - Sep 6 by vetchonian

We started

BENDA

NAUHHTON-CABANGO-WOOD

SORINOLA-GRIMES-ALLEN-MANNING

COOPER-PATERSON

PIROE

He changed it very quickly to

BENDA

NAUGHTON-WOOD-CABANGO-MANNING

GRIMES-ALLEN

SORINOLA-COOPER-PATERSON

PIROE

I can be exact to the time into the game he changed it but the switch in formation was made really quickly.

You bring a radio to listen to the game whilst there?
I know it can be done but i find it very pointless myself.

Of course a manager can suss a formation so early....The QPR backline was high from the off.

Poll:

Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:43 - Sep 6 with 1012 views

Dr_Parnassus

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:38 - Sep 6 by magicdaps10

	Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Poll:	Would you swap Ayew for Piroe?

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:16 - Sep 6 with 999 views

vetchonian

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:38 - Sep 6 by magicdaps10

My phone has a radio doesnt yours?
ITs something Ive done over the years it allows updates on other games but it is interesting to get a commentry...I dont always listen though

As I said Wood was no where between the West stand and Cabango at kick off and why switch Wood and Cabango around? Just pull Manning back and get the other 3 to move across...

But hey ho we won....we won by playing differently even Martin admitted it in his post match interview there was no sudden tactical switch it was defined from the off

But we are all entitiled to our opinions

[Post edited 6 Sep 2022 10:19]

Poll:

Will CCFC win a game this season?

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:38 - Sep 6 with 987 views

jack247

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:16 - Sep 6 by vetchonian

[Post edited 6 Sep 2022 10:19]

Is there any lag listening to commentary at the match?

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:53 - Sep 6 with 968 views

vetchonian

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:38 - Sep 6 by jack247
Is there any lag listening to commentary at the match?

Quite a few old lags listen at the match

There is a slight delay a few seconds or so behind

Poll:

Will CCFC win a game this season?

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:06 - Sep 6 with 952 views

jack247

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 10:53 - Sep 6 by vetchonian
Quite a few old lags listen at the match There is a slight delay a few seconds or so behind

Fair enough. May give it a go if it ever gets to the point where there’s none at all.

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:16 - Sep 6 with 942 views

Whiterockin

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 11:06 - Sep 6 by jack247
Fair enough. May give it a go if it ever gets to the point where there’s none at all.

FM often has a quicker response time than DAB.

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 14:10 - Sep 6 with 857 views

Kerouac

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 09:32 - Sep 6 by magicdaps10
They all show a 4-4-2 but we reverted to a 4-5-1 and ended it as a 4-3-3. Those little screenshot are wrong anyway.

I'll give you this, it was 4-5-1, not 4-4-2...Cooper did not play as a striker, he played as a CAM although he pressed their defence relentlessly.

From the first whistle (I always check out the starting positions and talk to the boy about how we're set up, it was a change on Saturday) we lined up;

------------------------- Benda -----------------------------
------------ Wood --------------- Cabango ---------------
Naughton -------------------------------------- Manning
----------------- Allen -------- Grimes --------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sorinola ---------- Olly Cooper ----- Patterson ------
----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------- Piroe -------------------------------

Sorinola played as a winger and wasted great opportunities after being put through by the likes of Grimes (not Sorinola's fault, he is a League 1 right-back being asked to play on the wing because Martin has fallen out with Obafemi and has loaned out Joseph, Garrick & Whittaker).
Patterson played as an attacking midfielder, his starting position was on the Left but he was never going outside his man and outpacing him. He tucked inside for most of it, took up left-wing positions on occasion to help provide width for his team mates but cut inside on to his right foot without exception.

The full-backs complimented the 'wingers' though.
Sorinola as a young right wing-back got back and helped Naughton on occasion.
Manning constantly got forward down the left and was prepared to go past Patterson on the overlap. On these occasions Grimes or Allen would drop in and cover the left-back position. One time in particular Allen totally bailed Manning out, winning 2 challenges in a row.

Of course, if Martin had managed the squad and recruitment better, he would have a couple of players with pace available to play as the wingers. Regretfully, he didn't.
Tbis is why I recommend 4-3-3 instead.

We finished the game;

------------------------- Benda -----------------------------
------------ Wood --------------- Cabango ---------------
Naughton -------------------------------------- Manning
------------ Fulton --- Cundle --- Grimes ---------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
Stevens (RB?)---------------------------------- Oko-Flex
------------------------- Piroe -------------------------------

With stevens having replaced Cullen of course.

	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss9VZ1FHxy0
Poll:	Which manager should replace Russell Martin (2) ?

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 15:42 - Sep 7 with 760 views

magicdaps10

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 14:10 - Sep 6 by Kerouac

We finished

Benda

Naughton Wood Cabango Manning

Cundle Grimes

Fulton

Stevens Oxo-Flex

Piroe

Stevens was pushed up and the goal kick routine was to hit him high up on the right and he won a few aerial battles.

Poll:

Are the owners doing enough for Swansea City

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 20:59 - Sep 7 with 704 views

theloneranger

So is the Martinball experiment dead? on 21:51 - Sep 3 by Dr_Parnassus

That Martinball phantom is always hanging around the corner though.

I’d like it if he came out and said plainly that we are keeping this change in style and do a bit of an explanation. That way we can know what direction the club are going in. The not knowing which is going to turn up week on week is certainly unsettling.

He did this last season when under pressure though, he ditched it for a few weeks and got some results then went back to it. So I’m never counting my chickens.

But as I said in the OP, this time feels different. It feels like he’s finally realised, and no question the players will feel relieved to play a system that actually makes sense.

QPR had more passes and more possession than us at the Liberty (.com), has that ever happened in the league under Martin before (other than games with a red card)?

One doesn’t immediately come to mind. I’d guess no.

Bournemouth had more passes and more possession than us in the 3-3 draw last season.

Everyday above ground ... Is a good day! ðŸ˜Ž

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