| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly 18:04 - May 18 with 117580 views | krunchykarrot |
The time has come, second rate at best. |  | | |  |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 17:50 - Jul 4 with 2024 views | Vincent_Vega |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 17:06 - Jul 4 by Catullus |
Again, I don't think it'll work that way. If the Russian attacked the USA then MAD is guaranteed anyway. As long as Europe and the USA stand together in NATO the Russians won't nuke us.
NATO is the key, not our individual ownership of nukes. More important than us having our own nukes is having stable government across Europe and the USA. Trump and the EU are more of a concern to me than keeping our own nukes.
If any rogue nation nuked the UK (with enough force to cripple us) then other Euro countries would strike back too because the fallout would hit them badly. That's the problem with nukes, it's not surgical, it's scatter gun, the target and anything near by get hit too. Again, if tht happened we have NATO too.
Having enough firepower (between us) to literally destroy the planet a few times over is mad in itself, sanity has to start creping in somewhere. We have so much damage to repair already, is spending more money on something that will never be used (and if it is used nothing matters anyway) really a great idea? |
We don’t know how it would pan out, there’s too many variables. Russia have enough firepower to wipe out all life in the northern hemisphere in its first salvo. I agree NATO is a key but only 3 nations in NATO have the bomb. You say other euro countries would strike back, with what? And who? According to business insider only 3 of the top 10 militaries in the world are European. It wouldn’t take a lot to knock them out in nuclear weapons terms and less if France and uk disarmed (which is my point of keeping them) And it would leave ze Germans alone in Europe (assuming They don’t get a ridiculous amount of fallout or aren’t hit themselves) and if you think the US is going to rush to our aid in such an apocalyptic event you’re having a giraffe! They look after their own when the chips are down as we all would. It all feeds into trumps argument that certain nato members aren’t pulling their weight which he does have a point (pains me to say it) |  |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 17:52 - Jul 4 with 2024 views | Vincent_Vega |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:36 - Jul 4 by WarwickHunt |
You never know - it may come in handy when you’re 50m down and need to check on the football scores (assuming you can get a signal).
Failing that, at least you’ll know the exact time of your death... |
Or I can use the inbuild cellular and gps to get out of said situation... | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:44 - Jul 4 with 1987 views | DJack |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 17:52 - Jul 4 by Vincent_Vega |
Or I can use the inbuild cellular and gps to get out of said situation... |
At 50m down you wont get a cellular signal and you won't get gps unless you have tech like this...
https://modulustechnology.com/product/modulus-technology/101g-gps-pod/ |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:52 - Jul 4 with 1974 views | Catullus |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 17:50 - Jul 4 by Vincent_Vega |
We don’t know how it would pan out, there’s too many variables. Russia have enough firepower to wipe out all life in the northern hemisphere in its first salvo. I agree NATO is a key but only 3 nations in NATO have the bomb. You say other euro countries would strike back, with what? And who? According to business insider only 3 of the top 10 militaries in the world are European. It wouldn’t take a lot to knock them out in nuclear weapons terms and less if France and uk disarmed (which is my point of keeping them) And it would leave ze Germans alone in Europe (assuming They don’t get a ridiculous amount of fallout or aren’t hit themselves) and if you think the US is going to rush to our aid in such an apocalyptic event you’re having a giraffe! They look after their own when the chips are down as we all would. It all feeds into trumps argument that certain nato members aren’t pulling their weight which he does have a point (pains me to say it) |
That's why NATO is the key, the threat of the USA would be enough to make others back off. The USA has the firepower to destroy the planet by itself. I'd rather see us pay into a combined NATO neclear capability than pay out for our own.
Other Euro countries (within NATO) would strike back with conventional means, a strike against the UK is a threat to all of them, if they allowed us to be attacked surely they would be next. That' largely why it's MAD, the first nuclear strike would pretty much guarantee the end of everything. |  |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:19 - Jul 4 with 1956 views | Vincent_Vega |
That’s good because amateur divers don’t go further than 20meters under.... | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:21 - Jul 4 with 1955 views | DJack |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:52 - Jul 4 by Catullus |
That's why NATO is the key, the threat of the USA would be enough to make others back off. The USA has the firepower to destroy the planet by itself. I'd rather see us pay into a combined NATO neclear capability than pay out for our own.
Other Euro countries (within NATO) would strike back with conventional means, a strike against the UK is a threat to all of them, if they allowed us to be attacked surely they would be next. That' largely why it's MAD, the first nuclear strike would pretty much guarantee the end of everything. |
Couple of flaws...
A trump America almost dissolved NATO. Trump has also stated that he would not intervene to help Europe if there was nothing in it for America.
Also you do not consider the variance of nuclear wepons, An ICBM is for a different use to a battlefield tactical nuke. There is also a variance in strategies linked to nuclear weapons and the aims thereof. For example "escalate to de-escalate" would see an invasion of a nation/region and tactical nukes used to destroy/irradiate that nation/region and then the agressor leaves before it reaches a point where there is a nuclear retaliation. It is a win for the agressor and is a more likely scenario with less nations with a deterent - Do not conflate my presentation of these facts as tacit support for a nuclear armed planet. | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:29 - Jul 4 with 1949 views | DJack |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:19 - Jul 4 by Vincent_Vega |
That’s good because amateur divers don’t go further than 20meters under.... |
Then you need a GPS buoy and cable to connect at 20m to your watch... or the Rockwell SPGR II and a cable connected buoy (not sure that they make these now). | |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:37 - Jul 4 with 1945 views | Catullus |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 20:21 - Jul 4 by DJack |
Couple of flaws...
A trump America almost dissolved NATO. Trump has also stated that he would not intervene to help Europe if there was nothing in it for America.
Also you do not consider the variance of nuclear wepons, An ICBM is for a different use to a battlefield tactical nuke. There is also a variance in strategies linked to nuclear weapons and the aims thereof. For example "escalate to de-escalate" would see an invasion of a nation/region and tactical nukes used to destroy/irradiate that nation/region and then the agressor leaves before it reaches a point where there is a nuclear retaliation. It is a win for the agressor and is a more likely scenario with less nations with a deterent - Do not conflate my presentation of these facts as tacit support for a nuclear armed planet. |
Truymp won't be there forever.
Isn't it irrelelvant anyway. Whatever happens an indy Wales doesn't need and couldn't afford nukes! | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 21:08 - Jul 4 with 1936 views | Vincent_Vega |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 19:52 - Jul 4 by Catullus |
That's why NATO is the key, the threat of the USA would be enough to make others back off. The USA has the firepower to destroy the planet by itself. I'd rather see us pay into a combined NATO neclear capability than pay out for our own.
Other Euro countries (within NATO) would strike back with conventional means, a strike against the UK is a threat to all of them, if they allowed us to be attacked surely they would be next. That' largely why it's MAD, the first nuclear strike would pretty much guarantee the end of everything. |
I wouldn’t personally rely on one nation on ‘our’ side holding all the cards for want of a better phrase. We kind of do already pay ‘subs’ to America for nuclear protection as it’s their missile tech we use though I’m willing to be corrected on that. I’m willing to predict that should nukes be used conventional warfare would become obsolete in the aftermath. Like you said MAD would ensure nothing would be left anyways. To me NATO is just like a guarantee that would never be used should the worst happen as in the grand scheme of things it would be pointless. | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:21 - Jul 5 with 1867 views | Catullus |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 21:08 - Jul 4 by Vincent_Vega |
I wouldn’t personally rely on one nation on ‘our’ side holding all the cards for want of a better phrase. We kind of do already pay ‘subs’ to America for nuclear protection as it’s their missile tech we use though I’m willing to be corrected on that. I’m willing to predict that should nukes be used conventional warfare would become obsolete in the aftermath. Like you said MAD would ensure nothing would be left anyways. To me NATO is just like a guarantee that would never be used should the worst happen as in the grand scheme of things it would be pointless. |
If there was a limited nuclear strike conventional forces would move. It wouldn't be limited though, one strike, someone retaliates and it escalates until we're all doomed
https://tenor.com/view/dads-were-doomed-gif-10730215
Far better to get rid of nukes, only a complete lunatic would use them, sadly there are far too many lunatics in power!
I'll stand by Wales not needing them or being able to afford them though, an indy Wales would have more important things to worry about. | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:54 - Jul 5 with 1862 views | Vincent_Vega |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:21 - Jul 5 by Catullus |
If there was a limited nuclear strike conventional forces would move. It wouldn't be limited though, one strike, someone retaliates and it escalates until we're all doomed
https://tenor.com/view/dads-were-doomed-gif-10730215
Far better to get rid of nukes, only a complete lunatic would use them, sadly there are far too many lunatics in power!
I'll stand by Wales not needing them or being able to afford them though, an indy Wales would have more important things to worry about. |
Yeah I can’t see a nuclear strike ever being ‘limited’ either. It’s like when hms dreadnought was build by the RN. On its launch it rendered all other battleships including all in her own navy obsolete because it so powerful, same when the nuclear ICBM was developed imo.
I go back to my previous point, in a utopian society I wholeheartedly agree, get rid but the world just isn’t like that. Maybe after ww3 or what’s left will see the true awesome destructive power of these weapons first hand and then decide to disarm. It’s how the human race is unfortunately.
Well no I wouldn’t trust Cardiff bay with a black cat firework let alone the bomb. Milford would be a good second base for nuclear subs though. Also think of this, say Wales got independent but had to pay England for protection like what you suggested the uk do with the us. Would nationalists like ebo and kilk be ok with that? Doubt it. | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:12 - Jul 6 with 1798 views | felixstowe_jack |
Good to see the UK government giving the Welsh Assembly £59 million today as part of the package to help the arts.
Just hope Drakeford spends it wisely. | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:24 - Jul 6 with 1793 views | Catullus |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:54 - Jul 5 by Vincent_Vega |
Yeah I can’t see a nuclear strike ever being ‘limited’ either. It’s like when hms dreadnought was build by the RN. On its launch it rendered all other battleships including all in her own navy obsolete because it so powerful, same when the nuclear ICBM was developed imo.
I go back to my previous point, in a utopian society I wholeheartedly agree, get rid but the world just isn’t like that. Maybe after ww3 or what’s left will see the true awesome destructive power of these weapons first hand and then decide to disarm. It’s how the human race is unfortunately.
Well no I wouldn’t trust Cardiff bay with a black cat firework let alone the bomb. Milford would be a good second base for nuclear subs though. Also think of this, say Wales got independent but had to pay England for protection like what you suggested the uk do with the us. Would nationalists like ebo and kilk be ok with that? Doubt it. |
Milford for nuclear subs. I don't know if Kilk would have it but it would certainly provide some income and jobs too. It would also see Wales remain a target in any attack. Not that it matters, if England got nuked we'd get fallout too.
I've told Kilk this a few times now but I'm all for having the debate on indy and even the vote, as long as that vote includes the option to scrap the Senedd too, I don't think he agreed to the last bit. It's the funny thing about votes, people want the vote for what they want but not the options that might do away with what they want. They demanded another vote on brexit because we might have changed our minds but we're not allowed to change our minds on devolution! | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 12:30 - Jul 6 with 1783 views | Ebo |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:24 - Jul 6 by Catullus |
Milford for nuclear subs. I don't know if Kilk would have it but it would certainly provide some income and jobs too. It would also see Wales remain a target in any attack. Not that it matters, if England got nuked we'd get fallout too.
I've told Kilk this a few times now but I'm all for having the debate on indy and even the vote, as long as that vote includes the option to scrap the Senedd too, I don't think he agreed to the last bit. It's the funny thing about votes, people want the vote for what they want but not the options that might do away with what they want. They demanded another vote on brexit because we might have changed our minds but we're not allowed to change our minds on devolution! |
Like a second Brexit vote, a vote to reverse devolution will not happen. It’s a shame that the tiny minority that’s being lied to by that convicted ex burglar and ex UKIP clown are yet again getting conned. |  |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 13:01 - Jul 6 with 1771 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 12:30 - Jul 6 by Ebo |
Like a second Brexit vote, a vote to reverse devolution will not happen. It’s a shame that the tiny minority that’s being lied to by that convicted ex burglar and ex UKIP clown are yet again getting conned. |
We had two general elections since and the anti Brexit party lost both. | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:19 - Jul 6 with 1745 views | Catullus |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 12:30 - Jul 6 by Ebo |
Like a second Brexit vote, a vote to reverse devolution will not happen. It’s a shame that the tiny minority that’s being lied to by that convicted ex burglar and ex UKIP clown are yet again getting conned. |
People were clamouring for another brexit vote before the first one had been implemented. We voted on devolution over 20 years ago.
The vote for devolution had even less of a majority (on a poorer turn out) than brexit. All the claims about why we should have another brexit vote apply even more so to devolution. Yet the remainers in Wales don't see it that way, they want what they want and despite being in the minority see anything else as anti democratic.
Like I said, have the indy debate, have the vote but give people the choice to reverse devolution too, lets see what the majority want. | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:22 - Jul 6 with 1740 views | Ebo |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 13:01 - Jul 6 by felixstowe_jack |
We had two general elections since and the anti Brexit party lost both. |
While UKIP got beaten by a man dressed as a dolphin. Abolish Assembly doesn't have anywhere near the support of UKIP. | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:23 - Jul 6 with 1738 views | Ebo |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:19 - Jul 6 by Catullus |
People were clamouring for another brexit vote before the first one had been implemented. We voted on devolution over 20 years ago.
The vote for devolution had even less of a majority (on a poorer turn out) than brexit. All the claims about why we should have another brexit vote apply even more so to devolution. Yet the remainers in Wales don't see it that way, they want what they want and despite being in the minority see anything else as anti democratic.
Like I said, have the indy debate, have the vote but give people the choice to reverse devolution too, lets see what the majority want. |
Have it and you will get less than 4% supporting it but it won't happen as devolution is here to stay. | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 22:39 - Jul 6 with 1711 views | Vincent_Vega |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:24 - Jul 6 by Catullus |
Milford for nuclear subs. I don't know if Kilk would have it but it would certainly provide some income and jobs too. It would also see Wales remain a target in any attack. Not that it matters, if England got nuked we'd get fallout too.
I've told Kilk this a few times now but I'm all for having the debate on indy and even the vote, as long as that vote includes the option to scrap the Senedd too, I don't think he agreed to the last bit. It's the funny thing about votes, people want the vote for what they want but not the options that might do away with what they want. They demanded another vote on brexit because we might have changed our minds but we're not allowed to change our minds on devolution! |
Oh I was only saying strategically Milford is a natural location. No it’s safe to say Kilk would not be for it. I do remember before the Scottish Indy vote that the UK gov were thinking of Milford as a replacement for faslane, Carwyn Jones was for it if memory serves me correct pointing out exactly what you said about the boost for the local economy.
Strangely enough though when it came to the last few days of campaigning in Scotland all the AM’s got on the diamond coaches to try to convince the Scots to stay in the union. Why would they do that if it showed that wales would’ve benefited by Scottish independence? For me it shows the welsh assembly is against devolution as that’s the end game of it. So if the powers in Cardiff bay don’t back themselves then why the phuck should we? | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 23:06 - Jul 6 with 1698 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:12 - Jul 6 by felixstowe_jack |
Good to see the UK government giving the Welsh Assembly £59 million today as part of the package to help the arts.
Just hope Drakeford spends it wisely. |
How much will HS2 cost?
The official price tag for HS2 was set out in the 2015 Budget and came in at just under £56bn.
However, the government estimate for the project has since almost doubled, with the latest figure rising to £106bn, according to an official review leaked to the Financial Times in January.
Not one piece of the #HS2 track will reach Wales. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:00 - Jul 7 with 1615 views | johnlangy |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:19 - Jul 6 by Catullus |
People were clamouring for another brexit vote before the first one had been implemented. We voted on devolution over 20 years ago.
The vote for devolution had even less of a majority (on a poorer turn out) than brexit. All the claims about why we should have another brexit vote apply even more so to devolution. Yet the remainers in Wales don't see it that way, they want what they want and despite being in the minority see anything else as anti democratic.
Like I said, have the indy debate, have the vote but give people the choice to reverse devolution too, lets see what the majority want. |
Just to put the Welsh people's attitude toward devolution in an accurate context.
1979 referendum - Yes 20.3% - No 79.7%.
1997 referendum - Yes - 50.3% - No 49.7%.
Then the 2011 referendum on further law making powers for the Welsh Assembly - Yes 64% - No 36%. This was effectively a huge vote of confidence in having the Assembly.
So, contrary to what many argue as a 'small' majority for Yes in 1997, it was actually an enormous turnaround in Welsh attitudes toward devolution in just 18 years and then a further enormous vote of confidence just 14 years later. | | | |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 11:10 - Jul 7 with 1597 views | Catullus |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:23 - Jul 6 by Ebo |
Have it and you will get less than 4% supporting it but it won't happen as devolution is here to stay. |
Less than 4%, corrct me if I'm wrong but the latest polls showed an increase in support for indy BUT support fro scrapping devolution was still higher. Roger Awan-Scully put support for scrapping devo at around 24%, a bit more than your figure and he's supposed to be the expert. | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 12:22 - Jul 7 with 1576 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 14:22 - Jul 6 by Ebo |
While UKIP got beaten by a man dressed as a dolphin. Abolish Assembly doesn't have anywhere near the support of UKIP. |
How do you know if you don't hold a referendum? | |
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 12:25 - Jul 7 with 1569 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:00 - Jul 7 by johnlangy |
Just to put the Welsh people's attitude toward devolution in an accurate context.
1979 referendum - Yes 20.3% - No 79.7%.
1997 referendum - Yes - 50.3% - No 49.7%.
Then the 2011 referendum on further law making powers for the Welsh Assembly - Yes 64% - No 36%. This was effectively a huge vote of confidence in having the Assembly.
So, contrary to what many argue as a 'small' majority for Yes in 1997, it was actually an enormous turnaround in Welsh attitudes toward devolution in just 18 years and then a further enormous vote of confidence just 14 years later. |
You cant take a vote to give more power to the Assembly as confirmation that the Welsh people want to keep the assembly.
The people who want to abolish the assembly would not bother to vote if the only choice was to give more power to the Assembly.
It is a bit like asking should the labour party have more power only labour supporters would vote. [Post edited 7 Jul 2020 12:27]
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| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 13:10 - Jul 7 with 1553 views | BarrySwan |
| Scrap the ineffective Senedd-Welsh Assembly on 10:00 - Jul 7 by johnlangy |
Just to put the Welsh people's attitude toward devolution in an accurate context.
1979 referendum - Yes 20.3% - No 79.7%.
1997 referendum - Yes - 50.3% - No 49.7%.
Then the 2011 referendum on further law making powers for the Welsh Assembly - Yes 64% - No 36%. This was effectively a huge vote of confidence in having the Assembly.
So, contrary to what many argue as a 'small' majority for Yes in 1997, it was actually an enormous turnaround in Welsh attitudes toward devolution in just 18 years and then a further enormous vote of confidence just 14 years later. |
Well 35.6% turnout in 2011 would have to work extremely hard to justify your claim of an enormous vote of confidence in many peoples opinion.
A wins a win in first past the post however, unless of course the political class lose as they did in 79 thus prompting them to adopt the standard EU tactics of making the public vote again until they voted the right way.
The turnout in 2011 suggests more an indication of voter apathy with politics than your exaggerated enormous vote of confidence claim.
Add in the entire Welsh political class, the Welsh media plus just about every single Cardiff Bay funded NGO chucking their weight behind their funding source against an opposition which declared a total campaigning fund of £4,000 and I think that you'll find that your enormous vote of confidence claim more resembles the establishment resources overwhelming an opposition with everything against them and the aforementioned general voter apathy as opposed to the determination of the fanatics to vote the extra powers through.
And still the Yes vote managed barely 25% of the electorates support even with all the cards, resources and money stacked in their favour. Suspiciously similar to the vote % in 1997 I'm sure that you'll have noted.
I would suspect that opposition to the Assembly vote will have increased substantially by now if my experience of general conversation around my area is anything to go by. Not enough to scrap the Staus Quo assembly perhaps but certainly more than enough to return a number of abolish candidates to the Bay of plenty on the list vote.
Or I suppose that you could adopt the Leanne and Carwyn fingers on the pulse of the Welsh electorate expertise and bury your head in the sand just like they did until they woke up with a shock to the actual EU referendum result the morning after. [Post edited 7 Jul 2020 13:11]
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