| Goals 10:55 - Sep 6 with 1198 views | voyeur |
Possibly a daft question, but where are our goals going to come from? And I think i mean come from, rather than who scores them. I am sure that in time Nuttall, Hardy and Fonz will be knocking in the goals as well as Gnanduillet.
Provided they get the service. At the moment, our chances are coming from Feeney crosses and set pieces. Aiming mainly at the heads of Gnando, Edwards, Tilt and Heneghan will join in.
But we need to be doing a lot more creatively. Scannell has obviously been brought in to provide some of that down the left, which has been missing any threat so far. But we also need some creativity coming through the middle in the form of through balls. Which is why so many threads/posts on AVFTT have focused on the need for a creative midfielder. I'm not so sure that we need it, but we do need to work on our build up play, and the art of connecting the midfield with the strikers with through balls, and with patient build up play the leads to balls into the box. Thompson and Guy look like players who can do this, Virtue is a runner who likes to break forward, but it's not happening enough so far. Hopefully this is a big focus in training now, building the links between midfield and attack, getting the strikers in the right places, making the right runs, and getting the ball to them in a variety of ways.
But we also seem short of midfield players who are likely to chip in many goals. Feeney, Spearing, Thompson, Guy and Virtue have not looked like bothering the keeper too often in the past, and even Kaikai looks like an occasional scorer rather than a regular? Scannell doesn't have a great goal scoring record either.
Our season is going to depend on Larry's ability to build a team that can make chances, I reckon. we are defensively good enough for a top half finish as is, but a real promotion push is likely to need a bigger threat in the attacking third, methinks. But I do believe it will come. Remember the perfect ten, and how Larry orchestrated a really effective attacking game that the opposition just couldn't handle.
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| I am a nutter. I come from the sea. |
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| Goals on 13:16 - Sep 6 with 1184 views | spell_chekker |
It's not a daft question, it's the big one, and I don't know the answer. Let's hope that Grayson finds the solution and perhaps it's a simple case of time working wonders and the team gelling as the season goes on. Therefore becoming a formidable unit.
Add to that our strength in depth.
Kaikai can be a provider as well.
Gnanduillet - A conundrum. I agree he's undroppable at the moment but for me, a player of this style is not the long term solution. IMO, he can only take us so far and even if he continues his good form we'll be play offs without threatening automatic. We need one, or even better, two out of Delfouneso, Kaikai, Nuttall, and Hardie to come good - If a couple of theses players work out, big time, It'd bring a whole new dimension to our game.
Central midfield. We've looked good in patches and had very good passages of play but we haven't dominated games enough, taken them by the scruff of the neck, played the game on our terms. If the opposition get their foot in, put a shift in, close down, harry us, it seems to be enough to disrupt us, put us out of our stride, and play the match on our opponents terms rather than ours.
Thompson has been getting plaudits for his play left, right, and centre this season. I hope someone will explain to me why this is the case.
Spearing is our leader on the pitch and arguably our best player. Is he too one dimensional and does having him in the side, as in a similar way to having Gnanduillet in the team, dictate the way we play - giving us an inflexible style.
It'd be a huge leap of faith, super risky, but would a Thompson / Guy pairing or a Virtue / Guy pairing make us more fluid?
In short. I'm fairly sure that Gnanduillet is, in the long term, detrimental to our chances of success. I'm a lot less sure about Spearing and just punting something out there.
Let's see where we are after 10 / 12 games.
Rant over. |  |
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| Goals on 13:32 - Sep 6 with 1183 views | BringBackTheRedRoom |
Agree with that Voy, and I would add that I think the reason that Larry has brought in so many wide players is that their is a lack of creative central midfield players in this division.
Getting it wide and running at the opposition exploiting space and getting crosses in seems to be the plan A.
I think with Spearing sitting deep to get the ball off the central defenders, it really leaves only one in a forward central midfield role. It's partly why we look bloody awful when we just lump it up. Whoever plays upfront (be that Nug Nugs, Hardie or Nuttall), is going to struggle as the support isn't there and it's easy for the opposition players to double mark the forward and close them down.
Think it's 13? players have been brought in over the summer, so I'm willing to give this group a chance now until the next transfer window.
I'd bet we have had bids in for CM players, but they got turned down. (Some people on AVFTT need to remember we're not Div 1 answer to Man City, there will still be a budget to work to). |  |
| ‘Where there is harmony, may we bring discord. Where there is truth, may we bring error. Where there is faith, may we bring doubt. And where there is hope, may we bring despair’ |
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| Goals on 13:46 - Sep 6 with 1181 views | spell_chekker |
| Goals on 13:32 - Sep 6 by BringBackTheRedRoom |
Agree with that Voy, and I would add that I think the reason that Larry has brought in so many wide players is that their is a lack of creative central midfield players in this division.
Getting it wide and running at the opposition exploiting space and getting crosses in seems to be the plan A.
I think with Spearing sitting deep to get the ball off the central defenders, it really leaves only one in a forward central midfield role. It's partly why we look bloody awful when we just lump it up. Whoever plays upfront (be that Nug Nugs, Hardie or Nuttall), is going to struggle as the support isn't there and it's easy for the opposition players to double mark the forward and close them down.
Think it's 13? players have been brought in over the summer, so I'm willing to give this group a chance now until the next transfer window.
I'd bet we have had bids in for CM players, but they got turned down. (Some people on AVFTT need to remember we're not Div 1 answer to Man City, there will still be a budget to work to). |
Just a thought.
Could MacDonald be brought along to, in time, fill the Spearing role? | |
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| Goals on 13:49 - Sep 6 with 1178 views | BringBackTheRedRoom |
| Goals on 13:46 - Sep 6 by spell_chekker |
Just a thought.
Could MacDonald be brought along to, in time, fill the Spearing role? |
IMO Spell no. Totally different type of player. MacDonald is a left sided defensive/wing back player. | |
| ‘Where there is harmony, may we bring discord. Where there is truth, may we bring error. Where there is faith, may we bring doubt. And where there is hope, may we bring despair’ |
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| Goals on 13:57 - Sep 6 with 1175 views | voyeur |
| Goals on 13:46 - Sep 6 by spell_chekker |
Just a thought.
Could MacDonald be brought along to, in time, fill the Spearing role? |
I don't agree about Spearing, I think he's a pretty good player at this level and most L1 teams would be happy to have him. we just need to sort out what is going on in front of him, in my view. Key to that may well be working out how to deploy Kaikai. He hasn't dropped to L1 level through pure bad luck, and I can't work out exactly what he is. He's not really a midfield player or a winger or a striker. If Larry can crack that one, we could be onto something very good. And Larry did do a very similar thing with Hoolahan, who arrived with us as a player who was not really a winger or a midfield player. Deja vu of sorts.
I think Larry sees a shape that will involve Feeney and Scannell playing out wide, with Spearing sitting deep, and Thompson or Guy probing further forward. Kaikai in a free-ish role behind the strikers, who he is as yet undecided about - the striker positions ar e up for grabs, and may even be rotated. Gnanduillet is an effective player at L1 level, and will get plenty of game time IMO, but will be used more selectively if and when the other strikers are firing on all cylinders. Different games and stages of games demand different things. [Post edited 6 Sep 2019 14:03]
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| I am a nutter. I come from the sea. |
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| Goals on 14:11 - Sep 6 with 1162 views | BringBackTheRedRoom |
| Goals on 13:57 - Sep 6 by voyeur |
I don't agree about Spearing, I think he's a pretty good player at this level and most L1 teams would be happy to have him. we just need to sort out what is going on in front of him, in my view. Key to that may well be working out how to deploy Kaikai. He hasn't dropped to L1 level through pure bad luck, and I can't work out exactly what he is. He's not really a midfield player or a winger or a striker. If Larry can crack that one, we could be onto something very good. And Larry did do a very similar thing with Hoolahan, who arrived with us as a player who was not really a winger or a midfield player. Deja vu of sorts.
I think Larry sees a shape that will involve Feeney and Scannell playing out wide, with Spearing sitting deep, and Thompson or Guy probing further forward. Kaikai in a free-ish role behind the strikers, who he is as yet undecided about - the striker positions ar e up for grabs, and may even be rotated. Gnanduillet is an effective player at L1 level, and will get plenty of game time IMO, but will be used more selectively if and when the other strikers are firing on all cylinders. Different games and stages of games demand different things. [Post edited 6 Sep 2019 14:03]
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Wont find better than Spearing at this level. Problem I see is when Feeney goes off the boil (He's a winger in Div 1, it happens we've all seen it happen many times before). I'm hoping Virtue or Guy can be the breakthough CM, to give us that option B.
Kaikai looks a work in progress. Get the feeling he'll be a 4/10 one week then a 9/10 the next. Agree he's not in this division by accident. | |
| ‘Where there is harmony, may we bring discord. Where there is truth, may we bring error. Where there is faith, may we bring doubt. And where there is hope, may we bring despair’ |
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| Goals on 14:30 - Sep 6 with 1157 views | voyeur |
| Goals on 14:11 - Sep 6 by BringBackTheRedRoom |
Wont find better than Spearing at this level. Problem I see is when Feeney goes off the boil (He's a winger in Div 1, it happens we've all seen it happen many times before). I'm hoping Virtue or Guy can be the breakthough CM, to give us that option B.
Kaikai looks a work in progress. Get the feeling he'll be a 4/10 one week then a 9/10 the next. Agree he's not in this division by accident. |
Kaikai has got the ability - he just needs a settled club with a good coach who can work with him and help him discover his best position and develop accordingly. I think he's come to the right place. | |
| I am a nutter. I come from the sea. |
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| Goals on 15:12 - Sep 6 with 1150 views | Lala |
| Goals on 14:30 - Sep 6 by voyeur |
Kaikai has got the ability - he just needs a settled club with a good coach who can work with him and help him discover his best position and develop accordingly. I think he's come to the right place. |
Good stuff guys . Am not a technical observer naturally so all good insight for me 👠|  |
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| Goals on 15:15 - Sep 6 with 1149 views | spell_chekker |
| Goals on 14:30 - Sep 6 by voyeur |
Kaikai has got the ability - he just needs a settled club with a good coach who can work with him and help him discover his best position and develop accordingly. I think he's come to the right place. |
Also, it might be a question of the number of payers in the middle of the park.
The good midfields we've had recently were - Charlie, Southern, Vaughan - or - Ferguson, Martinez, Ludo (Less settled and with a few others like Shelvey, Grandin, and Basham chipping in)
Delfouneso has recently been injured which has forced Grayson's arm somewhat to go with Spearing sitting behind Guy and Thompson. Reinforcing the midfield in this way could, if given time to develop, give us greater control over games.
The trouble is that Delfouneso was playing very well and our win ratio has tailed off in his absence.
Look at it another way by tweaking the midfield three - Charlie, Southern, Vaughan and Ferguson, Martinez, Ludo both had 2 sitting players (one of whom would push up as and when) and 1 more advanced playmaker. Two of the 3 generally at the back but taking turns to push on and drop back. Dynamic.
Currently / generally we've got Spearing at the back on his jack jones and the other 2 central / advanced. There's less of an exchange of positions or fluidlity that would keep the opposition unbalanced. Less forward runs to keep opponents guessing.
Perhaps We should try Spearing and Virtue defensively (and alternately having a dynamic impact with their forward forays) with Guy as the more attacking joker in the pack.
I hope you know what I mean.
I don't have any answers, I just enjoy talking rubbish. [Post edited 6 Sep 2019 15:23]
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| Goals on 15:45 - Sep 6 with 1132 views | voyeur |
| Goals on 15:15 - Sep 6 by spell_chekker |
Also, it might be a question of the number of payers in the middle of the park.
The good midfields we've had recently were - Charlie, Southern, Vaughan - or - Ferguson, Martinez, Ludo (Less settled and with a few others like Shelvey, Grandin, and Basham chipping in)
Delfouneso has recently been injured which has forced Grayson's arm somewhat to go with Spearing sitting behind Guy and Thompson. Reinforcing the midfield in this way could, if given time to develop, give us greater control over games.
The trouble is that Delfouneso was playing very well and our win ratio has tailed off in his absence.
Look at it another way by tweaking the midfield three - Charlie, Southern, Vaughan and Ferguson, Martinez, Ludo both had 2 sitting players (one of whom would push up as and when) and 1 more advanced playmaker. Two of the 3 generally at the back but taking turns to push on and drop back. Dynamic.
Currently / generally we've got Spearing at the back on his jack jones and the other 2 central / advanced. There's less of an exchange of positions or fluidlity that would keep the opposition unbalanced. Less forward runs to keep opponents guessing.
Perhaps We should try Spearing and Virtue defensively (and alternately having a dynamic impact with their forward forays) with Guy as the more attacking joker in the pack.
I hope you know what I mean.
I don't have any answers, I just enjoy talking rubbish. [Post edited 6 Sep 2019 15:23]
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I do know what you mean and it makes sense. I think when Virtue gets fit we could well see him becoming a factor, he's more mobile than the other options we have and does like to get forward. Getting some activity down the left will help a lot too, presumably via Scannell. And/or MacDonald. We need to start worrying defences from all angles. | |
| I am a nutter. I come from the sea. |
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| Goals on 18:51 - Sep 6 with 1123 views | spell_chekker |
| Goals on 15:45 - Sep 6 by voyeur |
I do know what you mean and it makes sense. I think when Virtue gets fit we could well see him becoming a factor, he's more mobile than the other options we have and does like to get forward. Getting some activity down the left will help a lot too, presumably via Scannell. And/or MacDonald. We need to start worrying defences from all angles. |
Top thread.
I wouldn't know what to do but I've enjoyed firing from the hip like that with the others.
It's OK having an opinion and saying this or that but with Grayson's decisions comes the weight of all our hopes and dreams on his shoulders.
He's going to play it safe.
The defence is a finished article. He's made sure of that.
Spearing will continue to be our heartbeat.
Gnanduillet will be up top.
Holloway is the only manager who's ever really thrown all the cards up in the air to see which way they land. | |
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| Goals on 18:57 - Sep 6 with 1123 views | janegallagher |
| Goals on 15:45 - Sep 6 by voyeur |
I do know what you mean and it makes sense. I think when Virtue gets fit we could well see him becoming a factor, he's more mobile than the other options we have and does like to get forward. Getting some activity down the left will help a lot too, presumably via Scannell. And/or MacDonald. We need to start worrying defences from all angles. |
The only thing I would say voy is, we strengthened the squad considerably from last season and just missed out on the playoffs. A top half finish would be a backward step.
Onwards and upwards 😃 |  |
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| Goals on 19:07 - Sep 6 with 1117 views | voyeur |
| Goals on 18:57 - Sep 6 by janegallagher |
The only thing I would say voy is, we strengthened the squad considerably from last season and just missed out on the playoffs. A top half finish would be a backward step.
Onwards and upwards 😃 |
The defence was built by McPhillips and Bowyer.
We should do better than last season and we probably will, but McPhillips has not got enough credit for what he did in my opinion. He got dumped in it after one game. It's a competitive league with plenty of teams hoping to make the play offs. i think we will get stronger and finish higher than last season, but we have some improving to do to be certain of a top 6 finish I think. | |
| I am a nutter. I come from the sea. |
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| Goals on 05:17 - Sep 8 with 1103 views | spell_chekker |
| Goals on 19:07 - Sep 6 by voyeur |
The defence was built by McPhillips and Bowyer.
We should do better than last season and we probably will, but McPhillips has not got enough credit for what he did in my opinion. He got dumped in it after one game. It's a competitive league with plenty of teams hoping to make the play offs. i think we will get stronger and finish higher than last season, but we have some improving to do to be certain of a top 6 finish I think. |
We could start another thread entitled "Clean Sheets".
We've only kept 2 from a total of 9 games this season.
At home to Bristol Rovers and Away at Rochdale.
Yet are defenders and keeper are good. Everyone rates our defensive players. Defending is supposed to be our strong point.
What's the score? | |
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| Goals on 08:44 - Sep 8 with 1098 views | voyeur |
| Goals on 05:17 - Sep 8 by spell_chekker |
We could start another thread entitled "Clean Sheets".
We've only kept 2 from a total of 9 games this season.
At home to Bristol Rovers and Away at Rochdale.
Yet are defenders and keeper are good. Everyone rates our defensive players. Defending is supposed to be our strong point.
What's the score? |
3-2.
Didn't go yesterday. My view is that we should play a conventional back 4. And probably get Heneghan alongside Tilt again, with Turton and MacDonald as the full backs. I really don't know how to set the midfield and attack up, but you need to play Feeney and hopefully Scannell will give us the left side balance. I dont know which two of Spearing, Thompson, Guy and Virtue to start with. And none of our strikers look a serious threat at the minute. We are virtually playing last season's team, the new signings are not making much impact. Certainly the ones chosen by Larry. Are we really much better than last season?
I think our great start with three wins has possibly raised expectations too high. But likewise one narrow defeat away from home to an unbeaten side is not a reason to suddenly switch to 'we are rubbish' mode. We are very much a work in progress and we need to find the right balance in midfield and we need the strikers to play themselves into some form. | |
| I am a nutter. I come from the sea. |
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| Goals on 10:59 - Sep 8 with 1094 views | BringBackTheRedRoom |
| Goals on 08:44 - Sep 8 by voyeur |
3-2.
Didn't go yesterday. My view is that we should play a conventional back 4. And probably get Heneghan alongside Tilt again, with Turton and MacDonald as the full backs. I really don't know how to set the midfield and attack up, but you need to play Feeney and hopefully Scannell will give us the left side balance. I dont know which two of Spearing, Thompson, Guy and Virtue to start with. And none of our strikers look a serious threat at the minute. We are virtually playing last season's team, the new signings are not making much impact. Certainly the ones chosen by Larry. Are we really much better than last season?
I think our great start with three wins has possibly raised expectations too high. But likewise one narrow defeat away from home to an unbeaten side is not a reason to suddenly switch to 'we are rubbish' mode. We are very much a work in progress and we need to find the right balance in midfield and we need the strikers to play themselves into some form. |
Think part of the problem with the defence is their distribution. (Also the lack of pace at CH, which means we sit very deep). It's why Spearing plays so deep. That then just surrenders the midfield as Guy just got swamped. Taking Tangerine specs off for the moment, was impressed by Coventry's work rate to keep that pressing game up for 90 mins. Saying that they only scored the winner at the death, and we really lost it in the 15 mins either side of half time.
Felt sorry for Nuttall yesterday, he did look lost. However there is not a lot the forwards can do when the ball keeps flying over their heads with snow on it. | |
| ‘Where there is harmony, may we bring discord. Where there is truth, may we bring error. Where there is faith, may we bring doubt. And where there is hope, may we bring despair’ |
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| Goals on 11:32 - Sep 8 with 1090 views | spell_chekker |
| Goals on 10:59 - Sep 8 by BringBackTheRedRoom |
Think part of the problem with the defence is their distribution. (Also the lack of pace at CH, which means we sit very deep). It's why Spearing plays so deep. That then just surrenders the midfield as Guy just got swamped. Taking Tangerine specs off for the moment, was impressed by Coventry's work rate to keep that pressing game up for 90 mins. Saying that they only scored the winner at the death, and we really lost it in the 15 mins either side of half time.
Felt sorry for Nuttall yesterday, he did look lost. However there is not a lot the forwards can do when the ball keeps flying over their heads with snow on it. |
Distribution from defence is a problem but as we conceed the midfield they've nobody to distibute it to.
I think the system we're playing leaves us light in the middle of the park as well as making it difficult to get out wide when attacking.
4-4-2 might well work in L1.
Another solution would be to sacrifice one of the front 3. Yesterday it was Kaikai, Gnanduillet, and Nuttal, and pout an extra body in the middle (Thompson or Virtue). | |
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| Goals on 13:00 - Sep 8 with 1080 views | BringBackTheRedRoom |
| Goals on 11:32 - Sep 8 by spell_chekker |
Distribution from defence is a problem but as we conceed the midfield they've nobody to distibute it to.
I think the system we're playing leaves us light in the middle of the park as well as making it difficult to get out wide when attacking.
4-4-2 might well work in L1.
Another solution would be to sacrifice one of the front 3. Yesterday it was Kaikai, Gnanduillet, and Nuttal, and pout an extra body in the middle (Thompson or Virtue). |
Think I'd like to see us try a 4-1-2-3
Alnwick
Turton Tilt Heneghan Husband
Spearing
Guy Thompson
Feeney Gnanduillet Kaikai
or some such formation. You could argue about if they are the right players, but it would give 3 in midfield and still give you 3 forwards with width. | |
| ‘Where there is harmony, may we bring discord. Where there is truth, may we bring error. Where there is faith, may we bring doubt. And where there is hope, may we bring despair’ |
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| Goals on 19:05 - Sep 8 with 1071 views | spell_chekker |
| Goals on 13:00 - Sep 8 by BringBackTheRedRoom |
Think I'd like to see us try a 4-1-2-3
Alnwick
Turton Tilt Heneghan Husband
Spearing
Guy Thompson
Feeney Gnanduillet Kaikai
or some such formation. You could argue about if they are the right players, but it would give 3 in midfield and still give you 3 forwards with width. |
Our current system relies on us being watertight at the back.
We aren't because we concede the midfield and allow other teams to play.
I like Red's suggestion. I'd like more of a threat in the middle of the park and a CONSTANT threat on BOTH flanks (not just wing backs with heavy defensive duties getting up and down when they can).
I know very well that I'm here behind my keyboard and I respect that Grayson is the pro who knows L1 and how to get out of it.
I trust him. He's got a solid plan and it very nearly worked wonders on Saturday.
Let's have a couple of league wins soon though, please. | |
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