| Smell The Coffee 19:24 - Nov 18 with 15977 views | Boss_Hog |
I think it is time that we all sat up and faced a touch of realism. That realism, I'm afraid, is that we are in a relegation dogfight and nothing I have seen since August is able to convince me otherwise.
Firstly, I have every faith that Keith Hill will turn around the current situation. He is far and away the best manager we have ever had, has the experience, knowledge and ability to rectify our faults but he has a very big job ahead of him and some serious decisions to make.
Defensively we are woeful. We conceded 3 today but it could easily have been 6. We are naive, lacking confidence and only Harrison McGahey could walk away from today with his head held high. The situation at left-back is worrying beyond belief with both our options nothing short of absymal of late and our left-sided centre-half hasn't been good enough for many years now. He makes basic mistakes all the time, today his calamitous defending should have cost us a further 2 goals and he worries me both on and off the ball every time I watch him. In years gone by he would easily have been good enough for our side, now however we are trying to compete at the top end of League One.
Replacing the likes of Allen, Lund and NML was always going to be an impossible task. We have replaced them with cast offs that no other clubs wanted and expecting KH to work miracles every time is asking a lot. I know where we belong in the footballing pyramid but can we realistically expect KH to keep over-achieving with rejects from other clubs, some of whom are below us in the footballing structure? It is a big task, perhaps too big in 2017 with the current bunch we have on the pay roll.
At present I firmly believe that KH doesn't know his best team and system to play them in. I have struggled to see the appreciation of Hendo in midfield full stop, he is our best centre-forward and needs to play there. I know that we lack creativity and pace throughout the side but however we line up, I feel that Hendo needs somehow to be at the tip of it all. The same is true of Matty Done, not able to function properly in midfield and therefore arguably needs to play through the middle.
KH has arguably his poorest ever squad for a League One campaign. I'm sure he doesn't need the likes of me to tell him the task ahead, however he will need to make some huge decisions on players if we are to pull through the other end and survive relegation.
With the current bunch, I cannot see us scoring enough goals as even with Hendo and Done in attack, we completely lack any form of creativity to provide a platform for them. Calvin, as much as we love him , scores very few and creates even less and therefore we don't have that spark anywhere across the middle of the park as I see it now. Jordan Williams (Barrow) has been a huge dissapointment and we need an injection of flair from the loan market at the earliest opportunity the rules permit. The Directors need to back KH even more than they have ever done before, let him go out and bring in a couple of players who will help us at the top end of the field and relieve the pressure on the defence.
So all-in-all, not a good day. I honestly didn't feel that relegation was an option until today, now however I am beginning to fear we have a long and hard few months ahead. I just cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel at present and like all the travelling faithful today, I need to see something that changes my pessimistic outlook.
Up The Dale! |  | | |  |
| Smell The Coffee on 19:40 - Nov 18 with 8150 views | regjenkins |
Good post i may disagree with the point about K.H not knowing his best side, but that apart i can't argue.
The coffee today was poor by the way, a fair reflection on the Latics catering facilities. |  |
| ' I started out with nothing and i still got most of it left' |
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| Smell The Coffee on 19:45 - Nov 18 with 8118 views | Boss_Hog |
| Smell The Coffee on 19:40 - Nov 18 by regjenkins |
Good post i may disagree with the point about K.H not knowing his best side, but that apart i can't argue.
The coffee today was poor by the way, a fair reflection on the Latics catering facilities. |
May I ask, in a nice way of course, what KH thinks his best side is?
I will pre-empt you I think, by saying you will say his side today as it was unchanged of course.
Is Henderson in midfield and Nthle at left-back our best side? Rathbone on current form?
So many questions to answer............... | | | |
| Smell The Coffee on 19:56 - Nov 18 with 8037 views | 1mark1 |
Just like to point out that IF the replacements are cast offs, then it was Hill who brought them in. It’s his squad of players, so any weakness or indeed strengths in the squad are strictly down to him. Also it’s down to him if he not playing the correct players in the correct positions playing the right formation, apart from of course when players are unavailable for selecting due to injury or suspension. |  |
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| Smell The Coffee on 19:56 - Nov 18 with 8033 views | 442Dale |
What's excellent about the original post is that it not only identifies a lot of what's wrong, it also pinpoints the major problem that exists on the terraces and in the dugout: the need to realise and accept where we are as a football club at this moment in time.
It's up to everyone to deal with that much, much better. |  |
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| Smell The Coffee on 20:02 - Nov 18 with 7999 views | kiwidale |
Before anybody thinks this is a dig at Hill let me say its not he is the best man to have at the helm.
Now If anybody disagrees with your O P then there is denial through out the club coaching staff, playing staff, boardroom and on the terrace. We are in a right pickle I cant see where the next win is coming from I don't see a natural leader on the pitch how many captains has Hill tried? who was the last capt fantastic? last year the arrival of Holt gave a struggling team and supporters belief his presence on and off the pitch was immense. Rickie Lambert till end of season anybody? [Post edited 18 Nov 2017 20:07]
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| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Smell The Coffee on 20:09 - Nov 18 with 7936 views | TVOS1907 |
| Smell The Coffee on 20:02 - Nov 18 by kiwidale |
Before anybody thinks this is a dig at Hill let me say its not he is the best man to have at the helm.
Now If anybody disagrees with your O P then there is denial through out the club coaching staff, playing staff, boardroom and on the terrace. We are in a right pickle I cant see where the next win is coming from I don't see a natural leader on the pitch how many captains has Hill tried? who was the last capt fantastic? last year the arrival of Holt gave a struggling team and supporters belief his presence on and off the pitch was immense. Rickie Lambert till end of season anybody? [Post edited 18 Nov 2017 20:07]
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He's retired. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Smell The Coffee on 20:28 - Nov 18 with 7860 views | kiwidale |
| Smell The Coffee on 20:09 - Nov 18 by TVOS1907 |
He's retired. |
Holt had pretty much retired when he arrived... twas only a suggestion. | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Smell The Coffee on 20:32 - Nov 18 with 7833 views | D_Alien |
Not a bad OP, although having that terrible cliche as the headline almost made me not want to read it
Not all our new signings are "cast-offs". We've taken players on loan to try to make a difference and provide cover for the loss of very good players, plus we've spent £100k on Williams from Barrow who may or may not make a difference, it's still too early to tell, but what we need right now is confidence and experience. Players like Hendo should be able to provide that, but instead, he's become part of the problem
I suspect the enforced break after the Bromley game did us no favours, and our lethargic start today would've been in stark contrast to what we might've taken into the Wigan game, had it taken place
During that 15 minute spell in the second half when we were taking the game to Oldham and making openings (I agree with TVOS that it created the single chance), we looked every bit like a side that could climb the table. Then the injury to their lad and we went right off the boil again, when we should've been 2-1 up
In short, although I can see as well as anyone where the shortcomings are, and i said a while back that we needed to be able to battle as well as play nice football, i'm still of the opinion that we won't be in the bottom four come May. KH is still learning as a manager but the one thing he seems blind to is the effect that his use of Hendo has on the team. Albeit at a different level, it's the same issue Mourinho had with Rooney and the latter's plans of seeing out his career in midfield, except Mourinho is far more ruthless, so time for the baldy version to live up to his nickname
[Post edited 18 Nov 2017 20:39]
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| Smell The Coffee on 20:32 - Nov 18 with 7819 views | TVOS1907 |
| Smell The Coffee on 20:28 - Nov 18 by kiwidale |
Holt had pretty much retired when he arrived... twas only a suggestion. |
It's not a player like Lambert we need; it's players like Dawson, Jones and O'Grady who will help us out of the current situation.
By that I mean a solid defender, a midfield leader and a striker who leads the line well and who chips in with a few goals. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Smell The Coffee on 20:43 - Nov 18 with 7750 views | TVOS1907 |
| Smell The Coffee on 20:32 - Nov 18 by D_Alien |
Not a bad OP, although having that terrible cliche as the headline almost made me not want to read it
Not all our new signings are "cast-offs". We've taken players on loan to try to make a difference and provide cover for the loss of very good players, plus we've spent £100k on Williams from Barrow who may or may not make a difference, it's still too early to tell, but what we need right now is confidence and experience. Players like Hendo should be able to provide that, but instead, he's become part of the problem
I suspect the enforced break after the Bromley game did us no favours, and our lethargic start today would've been in stark contrast to what we might've taken into the Wigan game, had it taken place
During that 15 minute spell in the second half when we were taking the game to Oldham and making openings (I agree with TVOS that it created the single chance), we looked every bit like a side that could climb the table. Then the injury to their lad and we went right off the boil again, when we should've been 2-1 up
In short, although I can see as well as anyone where the shortcomings are, and i said a while back that we needed to be able to battle as well as play nice football, i'm still of the opinion that we won't be in the bottom four come May. KH is still learning as a manager but the one thing he seems blind to is the effect that his use of Hendo has on the team. Albeit at a different level, it's the same issue Mourinho had with Rooney and the latter's plans of seeing out his career in midfield, except Mourinho is far more ruthless, so time for the baldy version to live up to his nickname
[Post edited 18 Nov 2017 20:39]
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That's a good point about the enforced break because of the Wigan game. That and giving the players four days off seems to have had the completely opposite effect to what Hill was claiming in this week's interviews. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Smell The Coffee on 21:00 - Nov 18 with 7680 views | 49thseason |
We haven't won away since 13th April, we have only won 4 away in the last 12 months.
in the last 34 games, (17 this season and the last 17 of last season) we have won 8, drawn 15 and lost 11. |  | | |
| Smell The Coffee on 21:04 - Nov 18 with 7654 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Smell The Coffee on 20:32 - Nov 18 by D_Alien |
Not a bad OP, although having that terrible cliche as the headline almost made me not want to read it
Not all our new signings are "cast-offs". We've taken players on loan to try to make a difference and provide cover for the loss of very good players, plus we've spent £100k on Williams from Barrow who may or may not make a difference, it's still too early to tell, but what we need right now is confidence and experience. Players like Hendo should be able to provide that, but instead, he's become part of the problem
I suspect the enforced break after the Bromley game did us no favours, and our lethargic start today would've been in stark contrast to what we might've taken into the Wigan game, had it taken place
During that 15 minute spell in the second half when we were taking the game to Oldham and making openings (I agree with TVOS that it created the single chance), we looked every bit like a side that could climb the table. Then the injury to their lad and we went right off the boil again, when we should've been 2-1 up
In short, although I can see as well as anyone where the shortcomings are, and i said a while back that we needed to be able to battle as well as play nice football, i'm still of the opinion that we won't be in the bottom four come May. KH is still learning as a manager but the one thing he seems blind to is the effect that his use of Hendo has on the team. Albeit at a different level, it's the same issue Mourinho had with Rooney and the latter's plans of seeing out his career in midfield, except Mourinho is far more ruthless, so time for the baldy version to live up to his nickname
[Post edited 18 Nov 2017 20:39]
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Still learning? , sorry I don't agree, he is experienced, and at the
Moment he is found wanting |  |
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| Smell The Coffee on 21:09 - Nov 18 with 7619 views | D_Alien |
| Smell The Coffee on 21:04 - Nov 18 by rochdaleriddler |
Still learning? , sorry I don't agree, he is experienced, and at the
Moment he is found wanting |
He's still learning how to manage a side that's struggling. It didn't work at Barnsley but this is very different, he knows what it takes in L1 (experience) but not how to put that across to players who, for whatever reason, aren't doing what he tasks them with | |
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| Smell The Coffee on 21:10 - Nov 18 with 7609 views | TVOS1907 |
| Smell The Coffee on 21:04 - Nov 18 by rochdaleriddler |
Still learning? , sorry I don't agree, he is experienced, and at the
Moment he is found wanting |
I sort of agree with you, but any manager is still learning, even those at the top level.
Look at how Guardiola found his first year at City difficult, for example, after success at Barcelona and Bayern Munich. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Smell The Coffee on 21:23 - Nov 18 with 7562 views | regjenkins |
| Smell The Coffee on 21:09 - Nov 18 by D_Alien |
He's still learning how to manage a side that's struggling. It didn't work at Barnsley but this is very different, he knows what it takes in L1 (experience) but not how to put that across to players who, for whatever reason, aren't doing what he tasks them with |
The players today didn't seem to be working for each other. They aren't complete strangers. It appeared more fundamental than not following his instructions, promising possitions were too often wasted. K.H may say they were making poor decisions, others may suggest differently. | |
| ' I started out with nothing and i still got most of it left' |
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| Smell The Coffee on 21:27 - Nov 18 with 7540 views | D_Alien |
| Smell The Coffee on 21:23 - Nov 18 by regjenkins |
The players today didn't seem to be working for each other. They aren't complete strangers. It appeared more fundamental than not following his instructions, promising possitions were too often wasted. K.H may say they were making poor decisions, others may suggest differently. |
I fundamentally disagree that the players aren't working for each other
It really -and I mean really - isn't a matter of effort or commitment to the cause | |
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| Smell The Coffee on 22:41 - Nov 18 with 7360 views | MoonyDale |
| Smell The Coffee on 21:27 - Nov 18 by D_Alien |
I fundamentally disagree that the players aren't working for each other
It really -and I mean really - isn't a matter of effort or commitment to the cause |
Are they working for the manager? It would seem not at the moment... |  |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 22:54 - Nov 18 with 7311 views | 49thseason |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 22:54 - Nov 18 with 7311 views | 49thseason |
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| Smell The Coffee on 00:09 - Nov 19 with 7179 views | Sandyman |
We have won 3 league games out of 17 this season. Gillingham, Doncaster (just) and Brizzle R. All at home. The results show how poorly RAFC are playing. The manager has to take responsibility for this and sort it out. Most believe he can and will. Let's see it .
If he doesn't or can't...?? |  | | |
| Smell The Coffee on 09:20 - Nov 19 with 6887 views | dingdangblue |
| Smell The Coffee on 20:02 - Nov 18 by kiwidale |
Before anybody thinks this is a dig at Hill let me say its not he is the best man to have at the helm.
Now If anybody disagrees with your O P then there is denial through out the club coaching staff, playing staff, boardroom and on the terrace. We are in a right pickle I cant see where the next win is coming from I don't see a natural leader on the pitch how many captains has Hill tried? who was the last capt fantastic? last year the arrival of Holt gave a struggling team and supporters belief his presence on and off the pitch was immense. Rickie Lambert till end of season anybody? [Post edited 18 Nov 2017 20:07]
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I think 'I can't see where the next win is coming from' is incredibly harsh - we are still hard to beat at home Peterborough,Walsall,Oxford and Blackpool coming up are all very winnable. |  |
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| Smell The Coffee on 09:42 - Nov 19 with 6812 views | nordenblue |
| Smell The Coffee on 09:20 - Nov 19 by dingdangblue |
I think 'I can't see where the next win is coming from' is incredibly harsh - we are still hard to beat at home Peterborough,Walsall,Oxford and Blackpool coming up are all very winnable. |
Whilst I agree with you,these "winnable" games have come previously too and passed us by,many times without a win!!
From the few times I've seen this season we aren't a million miles away from being semi capable,on paper we look fairly healthy but the results definitely aren't good enough,Hilly will be hurting more than any of us regardless of what some halfwits post on here he is 1000% the right man to pull us out of it | | | |
| Smell The Coffee on 10:14 - Nov 19 with 6710 views | 442Dale |
There was a text sent into GMR yesterday that the laughably bad Wagg read out. Forgetting the bit about Hill, it mentioned a stat that we'd won nine league games this calendar year. This led to having to check it out...
2017
Played 39
Won 9
Drawn 17
Lost 13
44 points
2016 (and this is a remarkable record)
Played 47
Won 24
Drawn 8
Lost 15
80 points
So, in one year we've gone from a 'play-offs with ease' record, to 'just above the drop zone' form. That alone should be of a major concern to Hill and lead to a proper reassessment of what we do.
There's no need for major surgery as we all know there are decent players at the club, but the way we do things needs to evolve too; whether this be something small like warm-ups (which are so repetitive now that you can see the players automatically doing the same things), or a shift in actual tactics during the game.
Using the above examples, both could be looked at and changed, if only to freshen things up and give the players a bit of a clean slate. Clearly sticking to a plan which may have worked previously isn't getting the desired results now. It's all psychological. We need only think back to when Hill originally took over in 06/07 how that pre-match routine was noticeably different - the squad seemed totally reinvigorated to the point they were enjoying it as much as the games.
Formation: we need to look at 3-5-2 now. I know it's beating a tactical drum that's been mentioned before and might appear like it's merely following a current trend, but we have built a squad of players who *may* benefit from this change. Daniels is here for a reason so at least give him a go centrally, maybe both McNulty and McGahey (neither of whom had been playing badly until yesterday) would benefit from such a change rather that waiting until the moment when they're left out for someone else. It shifts Bunney/Ntlhe further up the pitch and Rafferty can do the same on the other side. A proper midfield three including Andy Cannon if he's fit, and then Done and AN Other up front. If Henderson has to play as the manager has indicated in the past, he's up front and he stays there.
Something has to change, we are meandering and there appears to be a feeling that because we are Rochdale and Keith Hill is here then we'll find form and it'll be ok again. That may well be the case, but the stats don't lie and there is no harm in trying different methods to remove the familiarity. As fans we're as guilty of this as anyone, something that was discussed walking to Oldham yesterday. We can still be Rochdale and we can still rely on Hill, but we can do that in a unique way. Make people realise that when they think they've got all the answers, we're actually changing the questions. | |
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| Smell The Coffee on 10:51 - Nov 19 with 6604 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| Smell The Coffee on 09:42 - Nov 19 by nordenblue |
Whilst I agree with you,these "winnable" games have come previously too and passed us by,many times without a win!!
From the few times I've seen this season we aren't a million miles away from being semi capable,on paper we look fairly healthy but the results definitely aren't good enough,Hilly will be hurting more than any of us regardless of what some halfwits post on here he is 1000% the right man to pull us out of it |
Winnable......"Dale have lost a league high 12 points from winning positions in League 1 this season"........so far
We are scraping the few wins we have......that's also a huge concern. | | | |
| Smell The Coffee on 10:56 - Nov 19 with 6584 views | johnn |
| Smell The Coffee on 10:14 - Nov 19 by 442Dale |
There was a text sent into GMR yesterday that the laughably bad Wagg read out. Forgetting the bit about Hill, it mentioned a stat that we'd won nine league games this calendar year. This led to having to check it out...
2017
Played 39
Won 9
Drawn 17
Lost 13
44 points
2016 (and this is a remarkable record)
Played 47
Won 24
Drawn 8
Lost 15
80 points
So, in one year we've gone from a 'play-offs with ease' record, to 'just above the drop zone' form. That alone should be of a major concern to Hill and lead to a proper reassessment of what we do.
There's no need for major surgery as we all know there are decent players at the club, but the way we do things needs to evolve too; whether this be something small like warm-ups (which are so repetitive now that you can see the players automatically doing the same things), or a shift in actual tactics during the game.
Using the above examples, both could be looked at and changed, if only to freshen things up and give the players a bit of a clean slate. Clearly sticking to a plan which may have worked previously isn't getting the desired results now. It's all psychological. We need only think back to when Hill originally took over in 06/07 how that pre-match routine was noticeably different - the squad seemed totally reinvigorated to the point they were enjoying it as much as the games.
Formation: we need to look at 3-5-2 now. I know it's beating a tactical drum that's been mentioned before and might appear like it's merely following a current trend, but we have built a squad of players who *may* benefit from this change. Daniels is here for a reason so at least give him a go centrally, maybe both McNulty and McGahey (neither of whom had been playing badly until yesterday) would benefit from such a change rather that waiting until the moment when they're left out for someone else. It shifts Bunney/Ntlhe further up the pitch and Rafferty can do the same on the other side. A proper midfield three including Andy Cannon if he's fit, and then Done and AN Other up front. If Henderson has to play as the manager has indicated in the past, he's up front and he stays there.
Something has to change, we are meandering and there appears to be a feeling that because we are Rochdale and Keith Hill is here then we'll find form and it'll be ok again. That may well be the case, but the stats don't lie and there is no harm in trying different methods to remove the familiarity. As fans we're as guilty of this as anyone, something that was discussed walking to Oldham yesterday. We can still be Rochdale and we can still rely on Hill, but we can do that in a unique way. Make people realise that when they think they've got all the answers, we're actually changing the questions. |
Yesterday at Oldham we were second best,they wanted to win,we just turned out.When the passes were played wecouldn’t Control the ball and just gave it back to Oldham.We won no second balls,Our defence was woeful,midfield missing and attack nowhere.We need changes,suggest we give Jordan Slew a chance up front,he can’t do any worse.Rant over!!! |  | | |
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