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Thatcher dead 12:56 - Apr 8 with 93913 views

six_foot_two

Skynews are are saying Magaret Thatcher has died of a stroke

Thatcher dead on 10:38 - Apr 14 with 1519 views

CanadaRanger

Thatcher or no Thatcher, the route the country was on (interest rates, IMF loans, etc) before she came to power was unsustainable. Much longer of living beyond our means and the UK would have become today's Cyprus or what Greece is in danger of becoming - only with huge inflation at the same time. So if it hadn't have been Thatcher who made the hard choices it would have had to have been someone else.

Thatcher dead on 10:46 - Apr 14 with 1512 views

MkPaul

Thatcher dead on 10:35 - Apr 14 by Cliff
Rubbish, poverty increased, inequality increased and whole communities were thrown onto the scrap heap.

And of course the communities did nothing to impact the decline ?

Thatcher dead on 10:48 - Apr 14 with 1510 views

NW5Hoop

Thatcher dead on 10:13 - Apr 14 by MkPaul

Some facts

Take the myth that Thatcher was deeply unpopular. The truth is that she won 43.9 per cent of the vote in 1979, 42.4 per cent in 1983 and 42.2 per cent in 1987

Today, Thatcher’s opinion polls are even more spectacular. YouGov finds that she is deemed the greatest post-1945 Prime Minister, and that 52 per cent of the public believe she was a great or a good PM. Yes, many hated her — often with an intensity that defies rational analysis — but many loved her.

Britain’s social housing sector was almost Soviet in size before Thatcher’s right-to-buy scheme was introduced, accounting for a third of all homes. Yet today, even after the sell-offs, it is a little-known fact that it remains much larger than in most other countries — worth up to a fifth of the total. That’s more than Denmark, Sweden, France, Finland, Ireland, Belgium, Slovenia, Germany and Spain

Tax cuts encouraged work, reduced inflation and made it easier for business, and a new generation of entrepreneurs began to create jobs. The UK soon started to close the gap with the US and eventually overtook France and Germany in terms of national income per person.

Our economy grew by 2.07 per cent annually in the Seventies and 3.09 per cent in the Eighties, before expanding by 2.77 per cent in the Nineties (when Thatcher’s legacy remained largely intact) and by 1.77 per cent in the 2000s, when it was wrecked by Gordon Brown. Manufacturing production rose 7.5 per cent during her time in office (demolishing the myth that she destroyed British industry), while services boomed.

Hopefully this helps put some of the myths on here to bed and some of you can realise its only your politicalviews tha cause this hatred

Look at where the votes were. Rural areas and the south (excluding large parts of London). Nowhere else.

Also 42% of the popular vote translated to around 30% of those eligible to vote.

Thatcher dead on 10:49 - Apr 14 with 1509 views

Cliff

Thatcher dead on 10:46 - Apr 14 by MkPaul
And of course the communities did nothing to impact the decline ?

What did you expect them to do? quit work voluntarily so Thatcher didn't have to throw them out of work?

Most other countries care more about their workers

Thatcher dead on 10:56 - Apr 14 with 1506 views

MkPaul

Thatcher dead on 10:49 - Apr 14 by Cliff
What did you expect them to do? quit work voluntarily so Thatcher didn't have to throw them out of work? Most other countries care more about their workers

What countries like Greece, Spain, Italy Cyprus?

Thatcher dead on 11:00 - Apr 14 with 1500 views

Cliff

Thatcher dead on 10:56 - Apr 14 by MkPaul
What countries like Greece, Spain, Italy Cyprus?

Again the usual weak argument that you can find someone or somewhere worse.

So what, Peter Sutcliffe killed more people that Fred West are you advocating forgiving and freeing good old Fred?

Thatcher dead on 11:05 - Apr 14 with 1497 views

QPR_John

Thatcher dead on 10:48 - Apr 14 by NW5Hoop
Look at where the votes were. Rural areas and the south (excluding large parts of London). Nowhere else. Also 42% of the popular vote translated to around 30% of those eligible to vote.

Are you saying those votes do not count. If you really are waiting for a government with 50%+ of the votes or one with an equal distribution over the country you will wait for a very long time. Regardless of the state of the country there are areas in the south where a sheep with a blue rosette would get elected and similarly in the north with a red rosette.

Thatcher dead on 11:07 - Apr 14 with 1495 views

highlandbill

Thatcher dead on 10:35 - Apr 14 by Cliff
Rubbish, poverty increased, inequality increased and whole communities were thrown onto the scrap heap.

Ok some facts. call me an anorak but I have just found some old utilities bills for the period just before or just after Thatcher got elected in 1979.(I have taken the following bills down to a weekly amount)
Phone 1976(Post Office) £1.75
Electricity 1977(LEB) £0.81
Gas 1982 (North Thames) £1.34
Water 1977 (Thames) £0.13
General rates 1978 (Hammersmith) £0.34

Weekly total for (publicly owned) services. £4.37

Average wage in 1978 = £80.00

Percentage of weekly wage spent on Phone,Power & Rates 5.5%.

I have done these sums several times as they seem quite incredible but I get the same figure.

The average weekly wage today is around £540

I have done a rough calculation of how much these services cost me today and it comes out at around £80.00 a week.This is close to 15% of the current weekly wage.Roughly 3 times the proportion of what they used to cost before privatisation.
All this extra cost and resulting profits go into the hands of huge companies who dole it out to their shareholders rather than plough it back into the infrastructure of their industry.
The biggest irony is that most of these companies are not located in the UK, so when we pay for our phones,our gas,our electricity etc it does nothing for the British economy. And please dont get me started on rents and mortages.
Thank you Margaret Thatcher you utter utter Ar**hole.You didnt save Britain, you ruined us!

At my age I should not be doing this!

Thatcher dead on 11:23 - Apr 14 with 1483 views

MkPaul

Thatcher dead on 11:07 - Apr 14 by highlandbill

But could the country afford to keep that up? ... Also what was the quality do the service provided?

Thatcher dead on 11:25 - Apr 14 with 1478 views

Cliff

Thatcher dead on 11:23 - Apr 14 by MkPaul
But could the country afford to keep that up? ... Also what was the quality do the service provided?

You really don't get it do you? - It's not just what was done, it was HOW it was done.

Thatcher dead on 11:26 - Apr 14 with 1479 views

MkPaul

Thatcher dead on 11:00 - Apr 14 by Cliff
Again the usual weak argument that you can find someone or somewhere worse. So what, Peter Sutcliffe killed more people that Fred West are you advocating forgiving and freeing good old Fred?

I guess when you run out of the option of using facts lets go for using murderers etc for no apparent reason

Thatcher dead on 11:29 - Apr 14 with 1475 views

MkPaul

Thatcher dead on 11:25 - Apr 14 by Cliff
You really don't get it do you? - It's not just what was done, it was HOW it was done.

Oh capital letters ... That makes all the difference, and you don't get it do you something's needed to be done and at the time there would have been no way to negotiate with the unions due to the way they were treated in the past and the fact they believed they should make all of the decisions on everything

Thatcher dead on 11:32 - Apr 14 with 1473 views

Cliff

Thatcher dead on 11:26 - Apr 14 by MkPaul
I guess when you run out of the option of using facts lets go for using murderers etc for no apparent reason

And I guess when you have no more ideas you try and circumvent the issue.

Having read you previous posts I don't believe for one minute you are as stupid as this reply suggests - uncaring yes, stupid no.

Anyone with half a brain can see the use of the names I used was to illustrate the point that the lesser of any two evils is still evil.

Thatcher dead on 11:33 - Apr 14 with 1472 views

QPR_John

Thatcher dead on 11:25 - Apr 14 by Cliff
You really don't get it do you? - It's not just what was done, it was HOW it was done.

I am amazed that Scargill's name has rarely cropped up. I wonder if he cared more about the miners than he did in bringing the Government down things might have been different

Thatcher dead on 11:36 - Apr 14 with 1470 views

Cliff

Thatcher dead on 11:29 - Apr 14 by MkPaul
Oh capital letters ... That makes all the difference, and you don't get it do you something's needed to be done and at the time there would have been no way to negotiate with the unions due to the way they were treated in the past and the fact they believed they should make all of the decisions on everything

Even if you accept that something needed to be done, that doesn't mean that what was done was the right thing, or even that it was the right thing but done it entirely the wrong way.

Thatcher dead on 11:40 - Apr 14 with 1467 views

Cliff

Thatcher dead on 11:33 - Apr 14 by QPR_John
I am amazed that Scargill's name has rarely cropped up. I wonder if he cared more about the miners than he did in bringing the Government down things might have been different

You might be right, you might be wrong, but that doesn't really affect the argument about Thatcher that much. Finding someone you think is worse, shows just that; there are worse people in the world, it doesn't make Thatcher any better.

Thatcher dead on 11:46 - Apr 14 with 1458 views

MkPaul

Thatcher dead on 11:32 - Apr 14 by Cliff
And I guess when you have no more ideas you try and circumvent the issue. Having read you previous posts I don't believe for one minute you are as stupid as this reply suggests - uncaring yes, stupid no. Anyone with half a brain can see the use of the names I used was to illustrate the point that the lesser of any two evils is still evil.

And there it is, something expected earlier

Thatcher dead on 11:48 - Apr 14 with 1457 views

MkPaul

Thatcher dead on 11:40 - Apr 14 by Cliff
You might be right, you might be wrong, but that doesn't really affect the argument about Thatcher that much. Finding someone you think is worse, shows just that; there are worse people in the world, it doesn't make Thatcher any better.

Of course it impacts the discussion as Scargils agenda may have taken away alternative ways of taking the required actions

Thatcher dead on 11:51 - Apr 14 with 1450 views

Cliff

Thatcher dead on 11:46 - Apr 14 by MkPaul
And there it is, something expected earlier

Getting all mysterious now - there what is?

Thatcher dead on 11:54 - Apr 14 with 1449 views

QPR_John

Thatcher dead on 11:40 - Apr 14 by Cliff
You might be right, you might be wrong, but that doesn't really affect the argument about Thatcher that much. Finding someone you think is worse, shows just that; there are worse people in the world, it doesn't make Thatcher any better.

But Scargill was directly involved in the dispute and I bring his name up for that reason not that I think he was better or worse. I just wonder what went on behind the scenes and maybe the main problem was that both wanted to win no matter what the consequences.

Thatcher dead on 11:54 - Apr 14 with 1448 views

Cliff

Thatcher dead on 11:48 - Apr 14 by MkPaul
Of course it impacts the discussion as Scargils agenda may have taken away alternative ways of taking the required actions

Thatcher showed that ultimately she could indeed do what she wanted with the mines, that doesn't necessarily mean she should, or that she should do it so comprehensively or so quickly.

Thatcher dead on 11:56 - Apr 14 with 2628 views

Cliff

Thatcher dead on 11:54 - Apr 14 by QPR_John
But Scargill was directly involved in the dispute and I bring his name up for that reason not that I think he was better or worse. I just wonder what went on behind the scenes and maybe the main problem was that both wanted to win no matter what the consequences.

Quite possibly, but there is such a thing as being magnanimous in victory, what we got looked decidedly vindictive.

[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]

Thatcher dead on 12:03 - Apr 14 with 2618 views

MkPaul

Well now it's my turn to bow out of this discussion as there are now only a few of us keeping it going and opinions won't change on either side regardless of what is said

Thatcher dead on 12:17 - Apr 14 with 2615 views

Cliff

Thatcher dead on 12:03 - Apr 14 by MkPaul
Well now it's my turn to bow out of this discussion as there are now only a few of us keeping it going and opinions won't change on either side regardless of what is said

I agree this is getting a bit tedious, but before you go would you do me the favour of answering this quick question.

You obviously believe that Thatcher did more good than bad, but do you accept that there were a significant few, who at least in the short to mid-term, suffered under Thatcher's rule, and that these same people were amongst the poorest and therefor the less well able to deal with it?

If the answer is yes, how can you expect them to respect the cause of their suffering, and deny them the right to protest

Thatcher dead on 12:23 - Apr 14 with 2613 views

MkPaul

Thatcher dead on 12:17 - Apr 14 by Cliff

I agree mistakes were made, not sure the suffering some suffered was all down to her I would put more of the blame at the door of Scargil etc. the changes needed making the decisions on how were to a great extent taken out of her hands by the this will never happen attitude of some.

Protest while she is in power, even protest whilst she is alive, but dance on her grave ... In actions arranged by 25 year old rich boys who live at home with mummy and daddy in their £1m pound home ... I think that says more about those individuals than it does about society but I know I wouldn't like to be like them and glad I was brought up with different morales

Can I just add that I feel she did far more good for this country than bad and far more than most PM's before and all PM's since

[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]

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