| Funding of Investors 15:46 - Jan 25 with 9915 views | scooby |
Been thinking about this, the majority of money that investors have / get is rarely theirs. A lot comes from overseas.
What are peoples thoughts on accepting an investor with funding from overseas? funding that need ultimately needs repaying...
Is there such a thing as a good investor? the large majority of investors want a return, i just cant see how RAFC would provide that. Plus, it isn't just an injection, this club needs regular "injections", possibly annually. I'm struggling to see how this would be an inviting opportunity for an external...
There is always the chance for the Trust to seek funding... unlikely and unappealing I know, unless it can achieve a majority shareholding! |  | | |  |
| Funding of Investors on 22:04 - Jan 25 with 2766 views | judd |
| Funding of Investors on 22:00 - Jan 25 by fourfourtwo |
24th in League Two. No outfield signings made by 25th January. Major U-Turn by BOD to go against the fan owned model which we’ve been advocating for 18 months, done on a whim with no consultation with fans. A sudden immediate need for investment to plug a massive black hole in the finances when we spent a princely sum on 3 poor players last January. Cloak and dagger AGM where these issues should have been raised but weren’t. Clear issues with attitude amongst the players following numerous strange reactions from players to fans. The whole Ethan Brierley saga which has unfolded today. Complete loss of professionalism on the pitch at Hartlepool last week with two sendings off and players looking like they care less than ever. A non-existant marketing department which has grown in size yet producing less than ever. A complete mismanagement of the summer recruitment policy and wage structure & multiple football failings during the Stockdale era due to a complete lack of football nous/experience.
Do you want me to carry on? [Post edited 25 Jan 2023 22:02]
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Please do.
You've told us nothing about the "within", and all that you iist is being openly debated in the "without".
What do you really want to say that makes you the authority on the "within" ? |  |
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| Funding of Investors on 22:05 - Jan 25 with 2759 views | pioneer |
| Funding of Investors on 21:35 - Jan 25 by fourfourtwo |
The big issue is if we are relegated to National League, what realistic chances will the directors have of getting that money back? The other worry is what measures will they then have to go to, to get it back?
Immediately we become even less attractive to players, investors etc. The supporting money we get from the EFL and Prem, gone. Away gates will reduce further.
It’s a frightening prospect.
I agree with everything in your post and hold no ill will against the BOD and don’t support the alleged abuse being dished out on social media.
But there are major issues within the club that need dealing with now. |
No one gets their money back from having bought dale shares. They overpaid for them to avoid legal issues. Little if any interest was shown in the recent offer at the inflated price.
Their best hope is the trust finds enough money to help them out.
At the moment my concern is about whether the supporters have been misled regarding player movements.
Up the Dale...up for sale | | | |
| Funding of Investors on 22:28 - Jan 25 with 2685 views | fourfourtwo |
| Funding of Investors on 22:04 - Jan 25 by judd |
Please do.
You've told us nothing about the "within", and all that you iist is being openly debated in the "without".
What do you really want to say that makes you the authority on the "within" ? |
I think you’re being paranoid.
All those factors have been caused by decisions “within”.
I’m not claiming to be any sort of authority I am a concerned fan like the rest of us.
The Brierley story today has pushed me past the point of despair. A poster on this forum was told 10 days ago he was injured, yet here he is on trial at Sheff U whilst missing CRUCIAL games for us. We are being lied to.
Once people become comfortable telling lies, that’s when the rot starts. | | | |
| Funding of Investors on 22:44 - Jan 25 with 2626 views | judd |
| Funding of Investors on 22:28 - Jan 25 by fourfourtwo |
I think you’re being paranoid.
All those factors have been caused by decisions “within”.
I’m not claiming to be any sort of authority I am a concerned fan like the rest of us.
The Brierley story today has pushed me past the point of despair. A poster on this forum was told 10 days ago he was injured, yet here he is on trial at Sheff U whilst missing CRUCIAL games for us. We are being lied to.
Once people become comfortable telling lies, that’s when the rot starts. |
I'm not being paranoid, I'm challenging what you posted.
All that you have posted is in the public domain and is being debated by fans.
"But there are major issues within the club that need dealing with now" - your words - would imply you have an axe to grind further to all that is already known.
"Dealing with now" would imply issues not already publicised, in my opinion.
Spell them out. | |
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| Funding of Investors on 22:51 - Jan 25 with 2602 views | D_Alien |
| Funding of Investors on 22:44 - Jan 25 by judd |
I'm not being paranoid, I'm challenging what you posted.
All that you have posted is in the public domain and is being debated by fans.
"But there are major issues within the club that need dealing with now" - your words - would imply you have an axe to grind further to all that is already known.
"Dealing with now" would imply issues not already publicised, in my opinion.
Spell them out. |
Earlier in this thread, he was "telling me now" that there'd be trouble at the Forum on 9 Feb. It might help if he explained what he thinks that might involve, other than the posing of serious yet reasonable questions to the Board and manager |  |
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| Funding of Investors on 22:53 - Jan 25 with 2588 views | Crede_Sign0 |
| Funding of Investors on 17:55 - Jan 25 by fitzochris |
A few people, having read my latest article, think I am opposed to outside investment. I’m not at all. When I first interviewed Simon upon his appointment as chairman, he even intimated back then that it may be a necessary outcome should all else fail. It was very definitely on the table. The upside of it would be that this time any potential investor would be put before the shareholders rather than the board trying to get them to waive that right and agree to a blind sale.
The questions my article posed are similar to those put forward by 442Dale and others. It was seeking clarity around the speed of the switch and the sudden reasoning when none such was given at the AGM.
Again, these shouldn’t be seen as critical. We’ve all bought into the fan-owned, or at least fan-led, model, so changes to that should be questioned.
What’s happening on the pitch is a whole other rant that my sanity won’t allow me to go over again here! |
Enjoyed the article
Two questions for me come to mind
Has the Trust ( or have they already) made a statement on the need for outside investment - and the seeming speed in shift from fan owed’ to must have outside investment. Can’t the Trusts board rep be asked to throw some light on this?
And getting down to brass tacks - given the money we are losing, how close are we to going into Administration? | | | |
| Funding of Investors on 23:00 - Jan 25 with 2552 views | judd |
| Funding of Investors on 22:53 - Jan 25 by Crede_Sign0 |
Enjoyed the article
Two questions for me come to mind
Has the Trust ( or have they already) made a statement on the need for outside investment - and the seeming speed in shift from fan owed’ to must have outside investment. Can’t the Trusts board rep be asked to throw some light on this?
And getting down to brass tacks - given the money we are losing, how close are we to going into Administration? |
Administration?
For fooks sake. | |
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| Funding of Investors on 23:11 - Jan 25 with 2529 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Funding of Investors on 22:53 - Jan 25 by Crede_Sign0 |
Enjoyed the article
Two questions for me come to mind
Has the Trust ( or have they already) made a statement on the need for outside investment - and the seeming speed in shift from fan owed’ to must have outside investment. Can’t the Trusts board rep be asked to throw some light on this?
And getting down to brass tacks - given the money we are losing, how close are we to going into Administration? |
https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2021/11/23/1f9ec411-6
January is when the Premier League pay their solidarity payment so all EFL clubs get a little windfall post Christmas for the second half of the season.
https://www.footballinsider247.com/finance-guru-sunderland-set-for-huge-bonus-am
This article seems to hint that EFL clubs are getting more money from the EFL too. |  |
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| Funding of Investors on 23:18 - Jan 25 with 2501 views | fitzochris |
| Funding of Investors on 22:53 - Jan 25 by Crede_Sign0 |
Enjoyed the article
Two questions for me come to mind
Has the Trust ( or have they already) made a statement on the need for outside investment - and the seeming speed in shift from fan owed’ to must have outside investment. Can’t the Trusts board rep be asked to throw some light on this?
And getting down to brass tacks - given the money we are losing, how close are we to going into Administration? |
I don’t think administration is a real concern at this stage.
I did, in fact, receive some answers to my questions, which is why I believe the fans’ forum will be invaluable, as the questions and answers will be in the public domain for all supporters to see rather than bits and bobs given to individuals here and there.
At the end of the day, a group of individuals have stumped up an incredible amount of cash to take the club forward, are working 50-hour weeks unpaid for the privilege, and are seeing little return as a result. I know it hurts them as much as it hurts us. |  |
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| Funding of Investors on 23:35 - Jan 25 with 2454 views | 49thseason |
| Funding of Investors on 22:05 - Jan 25 by pioneer |
No one gets their money back from having bought dale shares. They overpaid for them to avoid legal issues. Little if any interest was shown in the recent offer at the inflated price.
Their best hope is the trust finds enough money to help them out.
At the moment my concern is about whether the supporters have been misled regarding player movements.
Up the Dale...up for sale |
In retrospect, you wonder why they didnt have Directors Insurance, its only about £15 a month for £250,000 worth. It would have cost £100 for all of them and they could have taken MH to court without a care. |  | | |
| Funding of Investors on 06:14 - Jan 26 with 2242 views | fourfourtwo |
| Funding of Investors on 22:44 - Jan 25 by judd |
I'm not being paranoid, I'm challenging what you posted.
All that you have posted is in the public domain and is being debated by fans.
"But there are major issues within the club that need dealing with now" - your words - would imply you have an axe to grind further to all that is already known.
"Dealing with now" would imply issues not already publicised, in my opinion.
Spell them out. |
I’ve just spelled them out for you, are you OK? All the serious issues that need dealing with are what is in the public remain.
We are in absolute dire straights and it’s playing out in public, across social media, across the fan base.
There is no further axe to grind I’m pretty confused about what you’re trying to get at in all honesty.
There are multiple posts similar to mine within the January transfer window thread very similar to what I posted, yet you’ve taken umbrage with my post and become all defensive about it? | | | |
| Funding of Investors on 06:14 - Jan 26 with 2237 views | fourfourtwo |
| Funding of Investors on 22:51 - Jan 25 by D_Alien |
Earlier in this thread, he was "telling me now" that there'd be trouble at the Forum on 9 Feb. It might help if he explained what he thinks that might involve, other than the posing of serious yet reasonable questions to the Board and manager |
I said that fans forum will be toxic, will it not? | | | |
| Funding of Investors on 07:10 - Jan 26 with 2179 views | scooby |
some interesting responses on here, and glad the post was taken as a discussion point, not one to stir things up.
I for one also agree with an earlier post that "clean" money is the key, but no one will do that for Rochdale. Stockport and Wrexham were an asset to buy, a very plausible ROI.
Last night I was talking to the bloke who lost out on buying Stockport and was also looking at Oldham (but that setup was just a mess!), he's now turned his eye to a smaller club in a lower league. he cannot see an interest in Rochdale as there is no excitement or growth opportunity (his words). Even if we got to Championship, the crowds wouldn't make it sustainable and limited development options around Spotland to grow the community base.
I know Fitz has said he doesn't believe administration is a threat, however if we are losing money week in week out, and not covering it by being self efficient, how can that be classed as a going concern? for a year it can, but 2,3 or 4 years losing money and someone may have to make a very hard decision... although at that point, I suspect we would be bought out for a £1 then we could be in a real mess and start to look like bury. | | | |
| Funding of Investors on 07:19 - Jan 26 with 2176 views | Rodingdale |
| Funding of Investors on 23:18 - Jan 25 by fitzochris |
I don’t think administration is a real concern at this stage.
I did, in fact, receive some answers to my questions, which is why I believe the fans’ forum will be invaluable, as the questions and answers will be in the public domain for all supporters to see rather than bits and bobs given to individuals here and there.
At the end of the day, a group of individuals have stumped up an incredible amount of cash to take the club forward, are working 50-hour weeks unpaid for the privilege, and are seeing little return as a result. I know it hurts them as much as it hurts us. |
We’ve heard this “working incredibly hard” stuff before. We’ve seen recruitment of fresh faces on the board over the last year or so do provide expertise in x, y, z - if you have insight into the workload of directors and the 50 hours a week is correct - what are they spending the time on? It’s not communicating with fans, or answering emails or sending out shareholders bulletins consistently - what about an article on the website weekly from each Director in turn describing their input so we can get the insight into their 50 hour week and therefore enable fans customers to have an appreciation of their lot, rather than the communication black hole we have at the moment.
There seems to be a those on this message board in the know and the rest of us who just see a badly run football club who are increasingly frustrated by the lack of communication from the board. People are offering to help - you know offering to help, which just might help alleviate the workload on the board - but it’s just so glacial. | | | |
| Funding of Investors on 08:02 - Jan 26 with 2138 views | D_Alien |
| Funding of Investors on 06:14 - Jan 26 by fourfourtwo |
I said that fans forum will be toxic, will it not? |
Only if certain individuals wish to make it so, and by "telling me now" it very much sounds like you have some wish to make that happen
Nothing wrong with serious questioning; hostile questioning is a different matter which i've already posted about | |
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| Funding of Investors on 08:03 - Jan 26 with 2132 views | fitzochris |
| Funding of Investors on 07:19 - Jan 26 by Rodingdale |
We’ve heard this “working incredibly hard” stuff before. We’ve seen recruitment of fresh faces on the board over the last year or so do provide expertise in x, y, z - if you have insight into the workload of directors and the 50 hours a week is correct - what are they spending the time on? It’s not communicating with fans, or answering emails or sending out shareholders bulletins consistently - what about an article on the website weekly from each Director in turn describing their input so we can get the insight into their 50 hour week and therefore enable fans customers to have an appreciation of their lot, rather than the communication black hole we have at the moment.
There seems to be a those on this message board in the know and the rest of us who just see a badly run football club who are increasingly frustrated by the lack of communication from the board. People are offering to help - you know offering to help, which just might help alleviate the workload on the board - but it’s just so glacial. |
If you read my post, you will note that I say the fans’ forum is essential for providing answers publicly rather than info being drip fed to individuals.
I received a response after writing a very public article demanding answers and only then did my answers come after an unrelated exchange.
I appreciated this additional insight but it is something all supporters need to hear.
I’m making no apologies, by the way. What we’re seeing on the pitch is inexcusable.
Behind the scenes regarding the running of the club, I cannot say with any authority. All I have to go on is what people directly involved tell me - from suppliers, to volunteers to those working there day to day.
I reiterate, the fans’ forum needs to be a productive exchange of questions and answers, without hostility, and then all judgements will be based on the same information.
Cheers | |
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| Funding of Investors on 08:21 - Jan 26 with 2096 views | judd |
| Funding of Investors on 06:14 - Jan 26 by fourfourtwo |
I’ve just spelled them out for you, are you OK? All the serious issues that need dealing with are what is in the public remain.
We are in absolute dire straights and it’s playing out in public, across social media, across the fan base.
There is no further axe to grind I’m pretty confused about what you’re trying to get at in all honesty.
There are multiple posts similar to mine within the January transfer window thread very similar to what I posted, yet you’ve taken umbrage with my post and become all defensive about it? |
“24th in League Two.”
Correct. For now, at least, in January.
“No outfield signings made by 25th January.”
When does the transfer window close?
“Major U-Turn by BOD to go against the fan owned model which we’ve been advocating for 18 months, done on a whim with no consultation with fans.”
There are 30% of issued shares currently available to buy form the club. The take up of this size would trigger EFL regulatory requirements. It would not happen overnight. I do not see this as an issue. Seeking external investment has gone at at Rochdale since the days of Killie, Graham Morris and Trevor Butterworth
“A sudden immediate need for investment to plug a massive black hole in the finances when we spent a princely sum on 3 poor players last January.”
Not sure what expenditure 12 months ago has to do with the need to plug a massive black hole in the finances — what is that, by the way? What is your source? Cash has always been tight at Rochdale.
“Cloak and dagger AGM where these issues should have been raised but weren’t.”
Sadly I could not attend the AGM last time around — please elucidate on the cloak and dagger aspect.
“Clear issues with attitude amongst the players following numerous strange reactions from players to fans.”
I am aware of 2 players and 2 instances, given the dogs abuse these guys receive. They are only human, affected by emotions.
“The whole Ethan Brierley saga which has unfolded today.”
It has come via a journalist. If the club wishes to protect its’ commercial dealings with regards player sales, they are perfectly entitled to. Ethan previously went on a 2 week trial to Man City. Buy before you try in a cost of living, inflation crisis, in a buyers market, makes sense to me. I do not want to see him go and have cried out for his recent inclusion, but I also realise he deserves a chance at a much bigger club
“Complete loss of professionalism on the pitch at Hartlepool last week with two sendings off and players looking like they care less than ever.”
Two errors of judgement, the first of which the player has apologised for, the second in time added on. It happens. It’s bloody annoying, but it happens.”
A non-existant marketing department which has grown in size yet producing less than ever.”
How can it be non-existent if it has grown? Are you privy to their targets and financial results? How the employees are recompensed? Have they done better than, say, the sponsorship deal with Zen Internet? I wonder how much cash that brings in?
“ A complete mismanagement of the summer recruitment policy and wage structure & multiple football failings during the Stockdale era due to a complete lack of football nous/experience.”
We can all be wise after the event. Stockdale got 4 league games and was removed. Again, though, please tell us how you are privy to the wage structure at the club. | |
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| Funding of Investors on 08:34 - Jan 26 with 2074 views | judd |
| Funding of Investors on 07:19 - Jan 26 by Rodingdale |
We’ve heard this “working incredibly hard” stuff before. We’ve seen recruitment of fresh faces on the board over the last year or so do provide expertise in x, y, z - if you have insight into the workload of directors and the 50 hours a week is correct - what are they spending the time on? It’s not communicating with fans, or answering emails or sending out shareholders bulletins consistently - what about an article on the website weekly from each Director in turn describing their input so we can get the insight into their 50 hour week and therefore enable fans customers to have an appreciation of their lot, rather than the communication black hole we have at the moment.
There seems to be a those on this message board in the know and the rest of us who just see a badly run football club who are increasingly frustrated by the lack of communication from the board. People are offering to help - you know offering to help, which just might help alleviate the workload on the board - but it’s just so glacial. |
Some decent and interesting points being made.
My view on those:
"Working incredibly hard" did come from a paid employee
The recruitment of new faces - they have only recently fought off a legal action and have stumped up £100k each to regain shares from Morton House. It is probably impossible for all the board to be putting in 50 unpaid hours per week, but with regards communication, we have had an AGM, a video message, a written statement and a newspaper interview plus the monthly Trust director update in recent weeks plus an upcoming fans forum. How much communication should occur? It will never be enough in the eyes of some, I understand that, and there is always room for improvement.
Badly run football club - is that in footballing terms, or keeping the club afloat? How would you run it?
The offers of help - yes, appears to be slow on the uptake, and the volunteer army was first mentioned - I believe- at the AGM. I dare say there are a number of things to be taken into consideration nowadays that did not used to impede the volunteers of yore.
I am not in the know or close to anyone on the board. I see the same as you and support the same club as you. I guess our wiring is slightly different.
Have you seen the recent abuse on social media whereby the Chairman's home address was published with the poster encouraging people to go around there?
Or the petition to remove Simon purportedly started by a fan, whose name has since been removed when the coward was challenged?
Would you put up with that? | |
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| Funding of Investors on 09:12 - Jan 26 with 1971 views | 49thseason |
There is a comment in that article about £1.2m per club " if it were distributed equally" . But we know it wont be, because the EFL are intent on killing off the weakest of us. They want shiny and new, not old and dismal. How many clubs have come back from relegation to the Conference and thrived back in the EFL?
If we are relegated, there needs to be a complete makeover of the club, tradition is meaningless if it means no one wants to watch because they see the same old same old. Decline is ultimately terminal, it sucks out the energy and enthusiasm. This may be our last stand, but let us be in no doubt, if we are to survive, we cannot stay the same. | | | |
| Funding of Investors on 10:10 - Jan 26 with 1842 views | AtThePeake |
| Funding of Investors on 21:35 - Jan 25 by fourfourtwo |
The big issue is if we are relegated to National League, what realistic chances will the directors have of getting that money back? The other worry is what measures will they then have to go to, to get it back?
Immediately we become even less attractive to players, investors etc. The supporting money we get from the EFL and Prem, gone. Away gates will reduce further.
It’s a frightening prospect.
I agree with everything in your post and hold no ill will against the BOD and don’t support the alleged abuse being dished out on social media.
But there are major issues within the club that need dealing with now. |
And what happens if they spend money on a load of players this January and still get relegated? Then they're further into their pockets with no realistic chance of getting the money back.
I don't know why fans always seem to have this idea that throwing money at a problem will automatically fix it when we've seen with countless other clubs how that doesn't always seem to be the case. Even if we sign 30 new players, there's a chance we'll still get relegated. And when it's your money on the line then is that a risk you're taking? I think most people on here know enough about football to know that throwing good money after bad in order to get out of a mess on the field is not the smartest tactic, but it's much easier to be frustrated about when it isn't your own money you're risking. |  |
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| Funding of Investors on 10:52 - Jan 26 with 1746 views | Rodingdale |
| Funding of Investors on 08:34 - Jan 26 by judd |
Some decent and interesting points being made.
My view on those:
"Working incredibly hard" did come from a paid employee
The recruitment of new faces - they have only recently fought off a legal action and have stumped up £100k each to regain shares from Morton House. It is probably impossible for all the board to be putting in 50 unpaid hours per week, but with regards communication, we have had an AGM, a video message, a written statement and a newspaper interview plus the monthly Trust director update in recent weeks plus an upcoming fans forum. How much communication should occur? It will never be enough in the eyes of some, I understand that, and there is always room for improvement.
Badly run football club - is that in footballing terms, or keeping the club afloat? How would you run it?
The offers of help - yes, appears to be slow on the uptake, and the volunteer army was first mentioned - I believe- at the AGM. I dare say there are a number of things to be taken into consideration nowadays that did not used to impede the volunteers of yore.
I am not in the know or close to anyone on the board. I see the same as you and support the same club as you. I guess our wiring is slightly different.
Have you seen the recent abuse on social media whereby the Chairman's home address was published with the poster encouraging people to go around there?
Or the petition to remove Simon purportedly started by a fan, whose name has since been removed when the coward was challenged?
Would you put up with that? |
Thanks for reading Judd - you posed me some questions:
Working 50 hours a week - we have a website which should be kept fresh with news updates - if board members are working a 50 hour week, let us know what they are deploying their efforts on. I am very sympathetic to the efforts the directors have made and personal commitment - but there are lots of off the field things wrong - from in the bar, to the commercial department, advertising season tickets in January! lack of follow up for enquiries for new business - a lot listed in these message threads. Tell us there’s a plan, we can’t see it? A five min chat with a comma person and a quick statement could be put up.
Badly run football club - off the field (I know how to run a business not a football team) - it would appear that we are running at a loss - yes? The boards solution seems to be big bang investment. That might be right but imagine the difference it would make if we off the field activities were ALL 5% or 10% more profitable? How would I run it? Do we have a Monday management team meeting, with a customer feedback report being presented - content being a review of customer feedback from all media, including this messageboard (which we are told repeatedly is monitored by the club but is it monitored from a defensive or a receptive engaged perspective?. Emergent issues can be discussed, solutions sought and actions for improvement agreed and delegated with timeframes for resolution. Do we have annual plans for each area - documented, performance monitored against targets? Are there consequences for repeated failure - are there rewards for meeting / exceeding targets. As a business we seem to be hard to do business with - the culture as noted on another thread has to change to a performance culture with set objectives driving continual improvement. It doesn’t feel like this is what happens, if it does, why do we have the same problems recurring - we still don’t appear to have a CRM system? How can you run a company with a few thousand customers some of whom pick and choose - if you can’t keep them informed of your offer?
Army of volunteers - I’m sure there is some regulation, but where there is a will there is a way, we are not in a position to turn away engaged customers, fans, if we do how on earth are we going to be able to attract the apathetic / big game only fans - we need ‘can do’ - not ‘oh it’s too complicated, keep our heads down and they’ll go away’ - which is what if feels like.
Media abuse - Clearly not acceptable; and offensive intimidating content should be reported to the Police/ as appropriate. I support the board fully in pursuing perpetrators and spending club money to do so. That said the sad reality is - it happens. In my professional life abuse even death threats are not uncommon - I’m afraid, I’ve been subjected to them. It is disconcerting for sure, which is why any market facing business particularly one like a league football club, needs robust policies supported by commas professionals who can monitor all media sources. At a benign level - this can be a valuable source of feedback from which should be used to inform a weekly commas grid. Where offensive material appears this can be directed in real-time to the appropriate authorities. In my experience it feels a lot better to know that abuse has been dealt with by others before I’ve even read it. I’m afraid being on social media has risks and monitored accounts would be the way to go to avoid the impact of exposure on board members. RAFC has a duty to protect is employees and effective media management is part of that duty it’s an aspect of health and safety.
Someone noted I think on the Hartlepool match thread - that we have one of the smallest digital footprints, we need to drown out the negative stuff with a clear, planned narrative. But the problem is if there is one, I don’t know what it is anymore. | | | |
| Funding of Investors on 11:11 - Jan 26 with 1710 views | golfaduffy |
| Funding of Investors on 10:52 - Jan 26 by Rodingdale |
Thanks for reading Judd - you posed me some questions:
Working 50 hours a week - we have a website which should be kept fresh with news updates - if board members are working a 50 hour week, let us know what they are deploying their efforts on. I am very sympathetic to the efforts the directors have made and personal commitment - but there are lots of off the field things wrong - from in the bar, to the commercial department, advertising season tickets in January! lack of follow up for enquiries for new business - a lot listed in these message threads. Tell us there’s a plan, we can’t see it? A five min chat with a comma person and a quick statement could be put up.
Badly run football club - off the field (I know how to run a business not a football team) - it would appear that we are running at a loss - yes? The boards solution seems to be big bang investment. That might be right but imagine the difference it would make if we off the field activities were ALL 5% or 10% more profitable? How would I run it? Do we have a Monday management team meeting, with a customer feedback report being presented - content being a review of customer feedback from all media, including this messageboard (which we are told repeatedly is monitored by the club but is it monitored from a defensive or a receptive engaged perspective?. Emergent issues can be discussed, solutions sought and actions for improvement agreed and delegated with timeframes for resolution. Do we have annual plans for each area - documented, performance monitored against targets? Are there consequences for repeated failure - are there rewards for meeting / exceeding targets. As a business we seem to be hard to do business with - the culture as noted on another thread has to change to a performance culture with set objectives driving continual improvement. It doesn’t feel like this is what happens, if it does, why do we have the same problems recurring - we still don’t appear to have a CRM system? How can you run a company with a few thousand customers some of whom pick and choose - if you can’t keep them informed of your offer?
Army of volunteers - I’m sure there is some regulation, but where there is a will there is a way, we are not in a position to turn away engaged customers, fans, if we do how on earth are we going to be able to attract the apathetic / big game only fans - we need ‘can do’ - not ‘oh it’s too complicated, keep our heads down and they’ll go away’ - which is what if feels like.
Media abuse - Clearly not acceptable; and offensive intimidating content should be reported to the Police/ as appropriate. I support the board fully in pursuing perpetrators and spending club money to do so. That said the sad reality is - it happens. In my professional life abuse even death threats are not uncommon - I’m afraid, I’ve been subjected to them. It is disconcerting for sure, which is why any market facing business particularly one like a league football club, needs robust policies supported by commas professionals who can monitor all media sources. At a benign level - this can be a valuable source of feedback from which should be used to inform a weekly commas grid. Where offensive material appears this can be directed in real-time to the appropriate authorities. In my experience it feels a lot better to know that abuse has been dealt with by others before I’ve even read it. I’m afraid being on social media has risks and monitored accounts would be the way to go to avoid the impact of exposure on board members. RAFC has a duty to protect is employees and effective media management is part of that duty it’s an aspect of health and safety.
Someone noted I think on the Hartlepool match thread - that we have one of the smallest digital footprints, we need to drown out the negative stuff with a clear, planned narrative. But the problem is if there is one, I don’t know what it is anymore. |
Some good reasoned arguments here.
I've thought for a while that we could and should do more with the scorebord to make it more interesting for fans. We have a digital media officer? Lets see some 5 minute videos of things like Youth team, players in training, players getting treated for injuries (to prove we actually do this!) commercial oppertunitis at the club, and perhaps one showcasing the hospitality that you can have in the lounge or in a box. Put subtitles on so people can see and read what's happening. It's all part of comunicating, which seems poor at the moment.
My boss asked by email about hiring a box for the staff but he didn't get a reply first time, then was staggered to find that it has gone up almost 70% since last time he did it just before covid hit. He's doing one at Oldham instead. Do the new board realise how much buisinees is being put off because prices are to high .
I try to be positive, but its hard not to point out the missed chances at the club, and the board seem blissfully unaware of them. | | | |
| Funding of Investors on 11:52 - Jan 26 with 1597 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
I may sound like I’m desperately clutching at straws but if we are relegated to the national league it would give the club a chance at a reset.
I’ve said it before on here that the 2 Manchester clubs wouldn’t give a hoot if all the other teams around them folded. If we go down the club should do a roots up review the whole structure, aim if possible to offload our higher earning players & implement a rigorously enforced salary cap for all new signings. Hopefully there will be relegation clauses written into players contracts to mitigate revenue losses to a small extent.
Off the pitch I can envisage a smaller back room / office/ sales staff. Sadly this would mean job losses but as in any business if you’re haemorrhaging cash there really is no other option.
As for the stadium I can’t see a cash strapped council putting anything into a move unless the ground was a multi purpose venue & even then it’s highly unlikely so assuming we will stay where we are & depending on the hornets situation I would approach them with a view to streamlining both clubs ticket sales through 1 single ticket office & have 1 club shop selling both teams merchandise.
Plenty of football clubs are on the brink, more are sure to go under.
If the club can manage within its means even at mid table national league level for a few seasons then at least we may have something to build on for the future. |  | | |
| Funding of Investors on 12:51 - Jan 26 with 1429 views | judd |
| Funding of Investors on 10:52 - Jan 26 by Rodingdale |
Thanks for reading Judd - you posed me some questions:
Working 50 hours a week - we have a website which should be kept fresh with news updates - if board members are working a 50 hour week, let us know what they are deploying their efforts on. I am very sympathetic to the efforts the directors have made and personal commitment - but there are lots of off the field things wrong - from in the bar, to the commercial department, advertising season tickets in January! lack of follow up for enquiries for new business - a lot listed in these message threads. Tell us there’s a plan, we can’t see it? A five min chat with a comma person and a quick statement could be put up.
Badly run football club - off the field (I know how to run a business not a football team) - it would appear that we are running at a loss - yes? The boards solution seems to be big bang investment. That might be right but imagine the difference it would make if we off the field activities were ALL 5% or 10% more profitable? How would I run it? Do we have a Monday management team meeting, with a customer feedback report being presented - content being a review of customer feedback from all media, including this messageboard (which we are told repeatedly is monitored by the club but is it monitored from a defensive or a receptive engaged perspective?. Emergent issues can be discussed, solutions sought and actions for improvement agreed and delegated with timeframes for resolution. Do we have annual plans for each area - documented, performance monitored against targets? Are there consequences for repeated failure - are there rewards for meeting / exceeding targets. As a business we seem to be hard to do business with - the culture as noted on another thread has to change to a performance culture with set objectives driving continual improvement. It doesn’t feel like this is what happens, if it does, why do we have the same problems recurring - we still don’t appear to have a CRM system? How can you run a company with a few thousand customers some of whom pick and choose - if you can’t keep them informed of your offer?
Army of volunteers - I’m sure there is some regulation, but where there is a will there is a way, we are not in a position to turn away engaged customers, fans, if we do how on earth are we going to be able to attract the apathetic / big game only fans - we need ‘can do’ - not ‘oh it’s too complicated, keep our heads down and they’ll go away’ - which is what if feels like.
Media abuse - Clearly not acceptable; and offensive intimidating content should be reported to the Police/ as appropriate. I support the board fully in pursuing perpetrators and spending club money to do so. That said the sad reality is - it happens. In my professional life abuse even death threats are not uncommon - I’m afraid, I’ve been subjected to them. It is disconcerting for sure, which is why any market facing business particularly one like a league football club, needs robust policies supported by commas professionals who can monitor all media sources. At a benign level - this can be a valuable source of feedback from which should be used to inform a weekly commas grid. Where offensive material appears this can be directed in real-time to the appropriate authorities. In my experience it feels a lot better to know that abuse has been dealt with by others before I’ve even read it. I’m afraid being on social media has risks and monitored accounts would be the way to go to avoid the impact of exposure on board members. RAFC has a duty to protect is employees and effective media management is part of that duty it’s an aspect of health and safety.
Someone noted I think on the Hartlepool match thread - that we have one of the smallest digital footprints, we need to drown out the negative stuff with a clear, planned narrative. But the problem is if there is one, I don’t know what it is anymore. |
Appreciate this detail — thanks.
Bars — think we can see the attempts at improvements in terms of service, pricing & offers etc. Definitely seems a lot busier on match days. Communication top notch.
Website & club social media — yes, not sure why it is lacking behind at times, maybe Leighanne is a bigger loss than thought.
Commercial dept — I understand the offers from the retail consultant are under review. It has always been an area that attracts criticism from kit quality to stock availability. I have seen some complaints of emails not being answered, which is unfortunate and happens, but from my own personal perspective, all my dealings with the commercial team have been positive on the 4 occasions we have taken up hospitality and the 5th one we are planning.
We are loss making and always have been except for exceptional items throughout our history. The current board no longer support that model, having been exposed to it for c. 18 months. I would imagine the huge increases in costs in the past few months have swallowed up any savings made and put a declining slant on financial performance. I understand that there is a reporting structure in place now for relevant business disciplines and that the club now uses monthly management accounts. This has been reported on. Agree re: CRM, even a simple spread sheet based one would be useful. However, I do get regular emails and follow social media content, but it is not me that needs to be sold to — it is prospective supporters we need. Cannot comment on the reward/failure element, but I would imagine it is in place.
The army of volunteers is being followed up by the Trust. It is great that a good number of engaged people want to help for free and it would be a shame if procrastination costs us the goodwill on offer.
Definitely room for improvement, on the pitch an absolute priority. Your comment about being hard to do business with is a worry. But again, I have never had a problem spending money at the club except in the Dale bar on Boxing Day — staffing issues subsequently explained.
I would hope fans are all on the same page. There will always be some level of disagreement but the level of unity achieved in fighting off the wrong ‘uns should serve as a great example of what can be achieved at Rochdale.
Illegitimi non carborundum | |
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| Funding of Investors on 13:40 - Jan 26 with 1310 views | James1980 |
If one of the issues about getting volunteers on board is things like DBS checks (I believe that is the term currently) do the trust have funds that could be donated towards the cost? | |
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