| Another US school shooting on 01:14 - May 27 with 1018 views | Jack123 |
Interesting thread this, does make you think
f the USA ever said guns are no longer legal, how long would it take to get them out of existence.,
I say that bearing in mind, even in the UK guns are not legal, yet criminals can still get them, multiply that by Americas population compared to Britain.. |  |
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| Another US school shooting on 01:15 - May 27 with 1012 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 01:09 - May 27 by Treforys_Jack |
How about tackling the criminals having guns ? or is that far too simplistic. |
By doing what?
Criminals by their very nature aren’t fearful of the law, otherwise they wouldn’t be criminals. Hence why any gun revoking will only affect those that are law abiding citizens owning guns responsibly.
So you don’t solve the problem, and you almost certainly make it worse.
Plus of course you often you don’t know someone is a criminal until they become one.
Salvador Ramos, the man who did the Texas school shooting had no criminal record and no history of mental health. No amount of regulations or background checks would have stopped him buying a gun. |  |
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| Another US school shooting on 01:27 - May 27 with 1006 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 01:14 - May 27 by Jack123 |
Interesting thread this, does make you think
f the USA ever said guns are no longer legal, how long would it take to get them out of existence.,
I say that bearing in mind, even in the UK guns are not legal, yet criminals can still get them, multiply that by Americas population compared to Britain.. |
Exactly. The correct answer is never.
America has said class A drugs are illegal. Yet they are everywhere. There is not too much you can do with regards to stamping something out apart from punishing the tiny amount you do find.
With regards to guns, there is an immediate threat to anyone who wants to give them up, because they know for a fact that those that intend to cause harm certainly won’t be giving them up, law or no law.
Meaning all you have done is taken weapons from families wanting to protect themselves against lunatics and criminals.
Added to the fact that there is a ludicrous “defund the police” movement, which has been actioned in some areas making crime rates and murders rocket… Look how close politically we are to a national defunding of the police, it was being talked about very seriously due to the pressure from the left.
What logical reason would a responsible gun owner want to give up his weapon?
I can’t think of a single one. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 01:37 - May 27 with 1005 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
| Another US school shooting on 00:14 - May 27 by Lohengrin |
Speaking just for myself, I find it curious that so many of you appear so bent out of shape, so invested, in criminal acts committed in a foreign country over 4,000 miles away?  |
I propose the idea of a group of terrified primary school children being locked in a room and systematically and ruthlessly shot until they’re dead stirs the emotions somewhat which leads to a certain level of emotional investment and the desire that something should f*cking be done to stop this sort of thing happening over and over again. |  | | |
| Another US school shooting on 03:38 - May 27 with 971 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Another US school shooting on 01:15 - May 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
By doing what?
Criminals by their very nature aren’t fearful of the law, otherwise they wouldn’t be criminals. Hence why any gun revoking will only affect those that are law abiding citizens owning guns responsibly.
So you don’t solve the problem, and you almost certainly make it worse.
Plus of course you often you don’t know someone is a criminal until they become one.
Salvador Ramos, the man who did the Texas school shooting had no criminal record and no history of mental health. No amount of regulations or background checks would have stopped him buying a gun. |
Unless of course they weren't freely available. Just a thought like............... [Post edited 27 May 2022 3:39]
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| Another US school shooting on 05:30 - May 27 with 955 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 03:38 - May 27 by Treforys_Jack |
Unless of course they weren't freely available. Just a thought like............... [Post edited 27 May 2022 3:39]
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What do you mean?
Are you suggesting we build some kind of time machine? Or just pretend that there isn't 400 million guns already in circulation (80% of which were not bought by being ''freely available'')
What are you suggesting? Be specific.
I am saying if we ban guns, the only people who will give them up are those that aren't causing the concern. Agree or disagree?
I am also saying that there are background checks already in place if you wish to buy a gun from a retailer. I am also saying that this man who shot the kids in Texas would have passed all background checks with no mental health or criminal concerns previously. Agree or disagree?
So if we both agree that a ban on guns won't produce the desired effect and also background checks not really helping in many cases either - then we both seem to be in the same area of thought. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 07:21 - May 27 with 922 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Another US school shooting on 05:30 - May 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
What do you mean?
Are you suggesting we build some kind of time machine? Or just pretend that there isn't 400 million guns already in circulation (80% of which were not bought by being ''freely available'')
What are you suggesting? Be specific.
I am saying if we ban guns, the only people who will give them up are those that aren't causing the concern. Agree or disagree?
I am also saying that there are background checks already in place if you wish to buy a gun from a retailer. I am also saying that this man who shot the kids in Texas would have passed all background checks with no mental health or criminal concerns previously. Agree or disagree?
So if we both agree that a ban on guns won't produce the desired effect and also background checks not really helping in many cases either - then we both seem to be in the same area of thought. |
So nothing ever gets done and unbelievable tragedies will continue. At least try and disarm the country, you are forever saying how safe America is yet apparently everyone needs a gun. That's a bit of an oxymoron surely. You can't be saying it's safe because everyone has a gun surely to god | | | |
| Another US school shooting on 07:22 - May 27 with 920 views | shingle |
| Another US school shooting on 00:30 - May 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
Because you said you get angry at those people who say they have guns to protect themselves against the bad guys.
Why would posting a link of what the bad guys do?
It’s why the good guys have them that we are talking about, and they have them because of all the links you could post about what the bad guys do with them.
Think. |
Yes I said I get angry and frustrated when they say the good guys with guns stop the bad guys with guns maybe in some cases they do but in most cases they do not, there are far more links to innocents being shot,and killed with no good guys with a gun being available to save them than people being saved with the good guy with a gun so again why did you just put up links for the good guys with guns, now I do not want you to start staying up all night and losing losing sleep again over this, I am just curious why you did not put up links for both that,s all. | | | |
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| Another US school shooting on 07:23 - May 27 with 920 views | BryanSwan |
| Another US school shooting on 01:37 - May 27 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
I propose the idea of a group of terrified primary school children being locked in a room and systematically and ruthlessly shot until they’re dead stirs the emotions somewhat which leads to a certain level of emotional investment and the desire that something should f*cking be done to stop this sort of thing happening over and over again. |
The good guy with the gun mustve been on lunch.
Cannot fathom some of the excuses being made on here for why guns are mans best friend. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 07:52 - May 27 with 909 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 07:23 - May 27 by BryanSwan |
The good guy with the gun mustve been on lunch.
Cannot fathom some of the excuses being made on here for why guns are mans best friend. |
Kids aren’t allowed guns. Who do you expect would have one in that situation?
There is no excuses, they are reasons.
You don’t seem to be grasping that THERE IS 400 million guns in America. Not will be, not could be, not should be…. There are.
Once that is taken into consideration and we know people with bad intentions won’t hand them back regardless of legislation, then that changes everything doesn’t it.
I’m amazed you can’t see that. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 07:55 - May 27 with 906 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 07:22 - May 27 by shingle |
Yes I said I get angry and frustrated when they say the good guys with guns stop the bad guys with guns maybe in some cases they do but in most cases they do not, there are far more links to innocents being shot,and killed with no good guys with a gun being available to save them than people being saved with the good guy with a gun so again why did you just put up links for the good guys with guns, now I do not want you to start staying up all night and losing losing sleep again over this, I am just curious why you did not put up links for both that,s all. |
So that’s good then isn’t it?
If you are happily stating that good guys with guns sometimes stop the bad guys with guns… then surely that’s better than the good guys with guns never being able to stop them?
Which is what you seem to be proposing. Your position seems to be a little confused.
I have explained why I haven’t put any links up for that. It was not the discussion and serves no relevant purpose to the point I am making.
Any links you, I or anyone else can put up to show what the bad guys with guns do, only strengthens my point that we don’t want to be disarming responsible gun owners, so that they at least have a chance to protect themselves and their families.
I’m confused as to why you think that would back your view that we should disarm them….
Unless you unbelievably think that criminals will be queuing up to hand back their guns because the Government says so.... Do you?
I suggested that you “think” before posting after your last effort. It doesn’t appear you have taken that advice.
Lots of people appear to be making a stand here - but their proposals seem quite wishy washy and confused.
Tell me what you are proposing and tell me what you believe the result of that proposal will likely be. I have done the same in reverse and explained why banning guns will have a detrimental effect and went into detail as to why.
Feel free to do the same.
Be specific. [Post edited 27 May 2022 8:30]
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| Another US school shooting on 08:49 - May 27 with 887 views | BryanSwan |
| Another US school shooting on 07:52 - May 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
Kids aren’t allowed guns. Who do you expect would have one in that situation?
There is no excuses, they are reasons.
You don’t seem to be grasping that THERE IS 400 million guns in America. Not will be, not could be, not should be…. There are.
Once that is taken into consideration and we know people with bad intentions won’t hand them back regardless of legislation, then that changes everything doesn’t it.
I’m amazed you can’t see that. |
No no, i grasp the situation pretty well.
What i cannot fathom is how people can argue for a sysyem where any man, woman, child, dog can have easy access to weapons capable of killing multiple people.
Maybe i should be allowed to keep missiles, im responsible and would never use them.
Deluded. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 08:53 - May 27 with 882 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 08:49 - May 27 by BryanSwan |
No no, i grasp the situation pretty well.
What i cannot fathom is how people can argue for a sysyem where any man, woman, child, dog can have easy access to weapons capable of killing multiple people.
Maybe i should be allowed to keep missiles, im responsible and would never use them.
Deluded. |
Then why are you unwilling to tell me what you are proposing?
No man, woman, child or dog has easy access to a gun. If you buy from a gun retailer then you have to go through background checks. Just a fact.
So again, what is your proposition?
How are you going to rid America of 400m guns and how are you going to ensure that the criminals and mentally challenged people comply, as opposed to just the law abiding citizens.
So far we have heard ''put a ban on guns'' which as explained only makes the problem worse. Criminals will obviously keep them, the ones that don't cause the issues will hand them in... you are left with the same problem you had before except nobody can protect their family anymore or stop people carrying out these crimes.
It is more likely that homicide victims go up, not down.
So what is it you are suggesting? [Post edited 27 May 2022 8:55]
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| Another US school shooting on 09:09 - May 27 with 881 views | BryanSwan |
| Another US school shooting on 08:53 - May 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
Then why are you unwilling to tell me what you are proposing?
No man, woman, child or dog has easy access to a gun. If you buy from a gun retailer then you have to go through background checks. Just a fact.
So again, what is your proposition?
How are you going to rid America of 400m guns and how are you going to ensure that the criminals and mentally challenged people comply, as opposed to just the law abiding citizens.
So far we have heard ''put a ban on guns'' which as explained only makes the problem worse. Criminals will obviously keep them, the ones that don't cause the issues will hand them in... you are left with the same problem you had before except nobody can protect their family anymore or stop people carrying out these crimes.
It is more likely that homicide victims go up, not down.
So what is it you are suggesting? [Post edited 27 May 2022 8:55]
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Damn if there are background checks that must really help preventing gun crime..... Is the check, are you over 18, like ID for booze?
Rather than spouting ridiculous hypothetical situations on why less guns = more crime. Just admit you love gunny guns. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 09:12 - May 27 with 876 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 09:09 - May 27 by BryanSwan |
Damn if there are background checks that must really help preventing gun crime..... Is the check, are you over 18, like ID for booze?
Rather than spouting ridiculous hypothetical situations on why less guns = more crime. Just admit you love gunny guns. |
Why are you so against telling me what you are proposing?
What background checks would you like to see in place? How do you think they will affect the 400m guns in possession now.
Stop being so coy, it's not really the subject to be silly over.
Let's hear your views. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 09:17 - May 27 with 876 views | onehunglow |
| Another US school shooting on 08:49 - May 27 by BryanSwan |
No no, i grasp the situation pretty well.
What i cannot fathom is how people can argue for a sysyem where any man, woman, child, dog can have easy access to weapons capable of killing multiple people.
Maybe i should be allowed to keep missiles, im responsible and would never use them.
Deluded. |
This post should be highlighted and printed out in every American media outlet as it really is what is happening.
That which Dr P has posted on here is worth pending time reading,with respect, as it glides over the most basic issue -which is,TOO MANY AMERICANS HAVE GUNS AND TREASURE THEM.
it is that simple
Dump your guns
You do not need one in downtown Craphole ,Alabama .You can get by without them in Cheyenne ,Wyoming too. We came across two wild bears when we were in deepest Quebec and quietly make out way back to the car.
Yma o hyd | |
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| Another US school shooting on 09:18 - May 27 with 874 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Also its all hypothetical isn't it? Any proposition of a ban on guns is hypothetical as it doesn't yet exist.
But for any proposition there has to be a discussion on what we think the outcome would be.
I think the common sense and logical conclusion would be that if the Government ban guns, the only group of people that would comply are those that own them responsibly and comply with the law.
That would mean you are disarming normal people and keeping criminals and the bad intentioned armed. This means the problem doesn't go away but is exacerbated.
So why is that desirable? Disarming the people that cause no issues, taking their ability to stop these people away knowing that the group of people that cause the problems keep their guns.
If there is less people that can stop these criminals, then that would only mean the victims would increase. We have seen many examples of people stopping armed criminals with their guns, that would no longer be the case.
Which bit do you disagree with, and more importantly - why? | |
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| Another US school shooting on 09:21 - May 27 with 873 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 09:17 - May 27 by onehunglow |
This post should be highlighted and printed out in every American media outlet as it really is what is happening.
That which Dr P has posted on here is worth pending time reading,with respect, as it glides over the most basic issue -which is,TOO MANY AMERICANS HAVE GUNS AND TREASURE THEM.
it is that simple
Dump your guns
You do not need one in downtown Craphole ,Alabama .You can get by without them in Cheyenne ,Wyoming too. We came across two wild bears when we were in deepest Quebec and quietly make out way back to the car.
Yma o hyd |
- Owning a gun and treasuring it won't kill anyone.
- Owning a gun and being criminally minded may well do though.
So passing a law to make guns illegal will only take guns away from the first group. It doesn't solve anything.
Your view of course would have been perfectly valid 200 years ago. Sadly with 400 million already in circulation, the damage is already done. It needs far smarter thinking than ''get rid of them'' - because it's essentially impossible. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 09:42 - May 27 with 868 views | Lorax |
| Another US school shooting on 07:23 - May 27 by BryanSwan |
The good guy with the gun mustve been on lunch.
Cannot fathom some of the excuses being made on here for why guns are mans best friend. |
Well apparently, the good guys with the guns, in this case the POLICE, were on site and waited 40 minutes, maybe as much as an hour. They apparently waited for a tactical response team.
I don't know how many of the dead kids were still alive when the police first got there but anyway, the good guys with the guns turned up and what they did was stand back and wait, they even (allegedly) stopped parents who wanted to try and storm in to save their kids. Now I know parents storming in is a bad idea and would have meant more deaths again but if the police had acted, would they have saved lives?
Good guy with a gun is totally meaningless unless the good guy acts.
Murders by gun USA 2019 - 10, 537
Murders by gun USA 2020 - 13,620
In the USA 79% of murders involve a gun, in Australia it's 13%, in the UK it's 4%.
Apparently there is a crazy notion that more guns equals less gun crime, well read this,
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/25/us-active-shooter-incidents-incr
Taken from that link,
California does have lower rates of overall gun homicide and suicide than many states with more permissive gun laws.
More guns equals more gun crime according to the USAs own figures. | | | |
| Another US school shooting on 09:46 - May 27 with 861 views | onehunglow |
| Another US school shooting on 09:21 - May 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
- Owning a gun and treasuring it won't kill anyone.
- Owning a gun and being criminally minded may well do though.
So passing a law to make guns illegal will only take guns away from the first group. It doesn't solve anything.
Your view of course would have been perfectly valid 200 years ago. Sadly with 400 million already in circulation, the damage is already done. It needs far smarter thinking than ''get rid of them'' - because it's essentially impossible. |
It can.
The mentality to love a lethal weapon,specifically made for the purpose is what is the most fundamental factor of all.
Love of guns | |
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| Another US school shooting on 09:49 - May 27 with 860 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 09:42 - May 27 by Lorax |
Well apparently, the good guys with the guns, in this case the POLICE, were on site and waited 40 minutes, maybe as much as an hour. They apparently waited for a tactical response team.
I don't know how many of the dead kids were still alive when the police first got there but anyway, the good guys with the guns turned up and what they did was stand back and wait, they even (allegedly) stopped parents who wanted to try and storm in to save their kids. Now I know parents storming in is a bad idea and would have meant more deaths again but if the police had acted, would they have saved lives?
Good guy with a gun is totally meaningless unless the good guy acts.
Murders by gun USA 2019 - 10, 537
Murders by gun USA 2020 - 13,620
In the USA 79% of murders involve a gun, in Australia it's 13%, in the UK it's 4%.
Apparently there is a crazy notion that more guns equals less gun crime, well read this,
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/25/us-active-shooter-incidents-incr
Taken from that link,
California does have lower rates of overall gun homicide and suicide than many states with more permissive gun laws.
More guns equals more gun crime according to the USAs own figures. |
Why would you want the good guys to storm in and try and prevent it when you also seem to advocate disarming them?
You either would prefer them to try and stop it or not. If not, why not?
Again any legislation will not affect those who wish to use those guns for bad intentions, you would only be disarming people that can potentially stop these lunatics.
Which of course happens quite often. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 10:08 - May 27 with 856 views | Lorax |
| Another US school shooting on 09:49 - May 27 by Dr_Parnassus |
Why would you want the good guys to storm in and try and prevent it when you also seem to advocate disarming them?
You either would prefer them to try and stop it or not. If not, why not?
Again any legislation will not affect those who wish to use those guns for bad intentions, you would only be disarming people that can potentially stop these lunatics.
Which of course happens quite often. |
I took you off ignore to see the obvious silly retort.
The good guys with the guns were there, that is regardless of my desire to see guns removed. What you have just said is so utterly stupid as to deserve being laughed at.
I would have preferred them to stop it but I would much prefer that these things didn't happen in the first place.
You say I would only be disarming people that could potentially stop these lunatics well those people were there, we call them the "POLICE" and they didn't stop this lunatic, they stood around and waited while children were murdered.
Again, your comments are utterly laughable and I struggle to think you even believe what you have just posted. Maybe you can tune in to the NRA's next big meeting so your friend, Donald Trump, can share his views which no doubt you will agree with.
Now you are going back on ignore so don't bother answering because I won't read it, I'm not getting caught in that swamp. | | | |
| Another US school shooting on 10:16 - May 27 with 848 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 10:08 - May 27 by Lorax |
I took you off ignore to see the obvious silly retort.
The good guys with the guns were there, that is regardless of my desire to see guns removed. What you have just said is so utterly stupid as to deserve being laughed at.
I would have preferred them to stop it but I would much prefer that these things didn't happen in the first place.
You say I would only be disarming people that could potentially stop these lunatics well those people were there, we call them the "POLICE" and they didn't stop this lunatic, they stood around and waited while children were murdered.
Again, your comments are utterly laughable and I struggle to think you even believe what you have just posted. Maybe you can tune in to the NRA's next big meeting so your friend, Donald Trump, can share his views which no doubt you will agree with.
Now you are going back on ignore so don't bother answering because I won't read it, I'm not getting caught in that swamp. |
What is silly about it? It is not a retort it is a response, the kind that always seems to stump you which is why you pretend to ignore me.
Thankfully that won't stop me from responding to your nonsense.
Preferring things didn't happen in the first place is irrelevant. That's like saying you would prefer Ukraine not to have weapons because you would prefer Russia didn't attack them in the first place.
Are you saying the police stood around because they were lazy or something? They clearly did not know what the threat was, it could have been a hostage situation in which storming in could have resulted in far more deaths.
The fact is you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about but happy to slag people off and blame innocents for senseless murders.
Get a pair of balls and discuss your position and stop cowardly hiding behind the ignore button to save you from having to explain your idiocy. | |
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| Another US school shooting on 12:07 - May 27 with 819 views | CountyJim |
The idiot who did these shootings apparently obtained guns legally looks like these background checks are brilliant then 👀
That's going to keep kids safe background checks |  | | |
| Another US school shooting on 12:21 - May 27 with 812 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Another US school shooting on 12:07 - May 27 by CountyJim |
The idiot who did these shootings apparently obtained guns legally looks like these background checks are brilliant then 👀
That's going to keep kids safe background checks |
They can only check so much, that's the point I am making.
If someone is of legal age, has a license, doesn't have a criminal record and no history of mental illness... what background checks do we want?
People need to be realistic. There is a reason why not a single person is brave enough to come forward with a solution that they are championing.
There isn't one. Far easier to lash out at others stating so. | |
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