| If you voted Leave....... 11:18 - Jul 9 with 24760 views | westwalesed |
…….and there was a 2nd Referendum, as the "Peoples Vote" brigade (oh the irony) want to have, how would you vote?
Hypothetically if the question was:
a) Accept the Current Deal (assuming it doesn't get watered down further) or
b) Leave the EU with No Deal in place.
I'm appealing to people here, don't let this be hijacked, no insults and petty points. Just a statement of how you voted originally would vote now, and why?
So to kick off:
I voted Leave.
I would vote to leave without a deal.
I would do so because I believe that the only way of the UK getting the deal it wants is to negotiate from a position of full Sovereign Independence.
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| If you voted Leave....... on 07:51 - Jul 10 with 1544 views | wobbly |
| If you voted Leave....... on 23:45 - Jul 9 by longlostjack |
The litmus test on that one will be Italy ! I can’t see the Euro surviving in it’s current status in the long term tbh. That doesn’t mean that EU is unsustainable ! |
Ironically, it is their membership of the Euro that has kept Italy going as long as it has. It benefits from massively cheaper borrowing as a consequence of membership, allowing it to run the deficit it does for longer.
Imagine what would have happened to Italy outside of the Euro... |  | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 07:53 - Jul 10 with 1542 views | wobbly |
| If you voted Leave....... on 23:31 - Jul 9 by Lord_Bony |
Well it can't go on indefinitely that's for sure. The ECB has to do something radical at some point.
The problem being will the north of Europe bear the brunt of it as their southern neighbours seem incapable of contributing anything towards the debt. |
ECB is too busy fighting the good fight with the trust board. Leave him out of this. | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 08:11 - Jul 10 with 1506 views | WarwickHunt |
| If you voted Leave....... on 07:20 - Jul 10 by valleyboy |
The Ekectrol Commission is without a doubt pro EU
As you said
Why have they failed to investigate the Pritti Patel file????? |
Ekectrol?
Is that how they spell it in Geranany? |  | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 08:13 - Jul 10 with 1493 views | WarwickHunt |
| If you voted Leave....... on 07:53 - Jul 10 by wobbly |
ECB is too busy fighting the good fight with the trust board. Leave him out of this. |
He’s also got this 100 ball nonsense to implement. | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 08:41 - Jul 10 with 1443 views | MrSwansea |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:25 - Jul 9 by omarjack |
"I'm appealing to people here, don't let this be hijacked, no insults and petty points."
LOL man..this is the internet. Take away those things and we'll be left with kitten memes playing with yarn.
Anyway I voted Remain and will vote again because I have an IQ that is significantly higher than the Borderline Deficiency Limit. [Post edited 9 Jul 2018 11:29]
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I voted remain but this is the kind of attitude that has attributed to the droves of working class people feeling a separate part of society. A society that offers them nothing and what they can only supply is only their labour. A prole if you will. | |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 09:54 - Jul 10 with 1407 views | swan65split |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:44 - Jul 9 by Ace_Jack |
Yes at all costs. A no-deal Brexit is an unthinkable disaster for this country. |
Initially we were conned into joining, we voted to stay in later....that to me proved a disaster, and not what was promised.
we own nothing , its all gone abroad, and now threatening to take it abroad if we leave the EU.
The disaster has occurred. |  | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 10:15 - Jul 10 with 1391 views | Ebo |
| If you voted Leave....... on 07:12 - Jul 10 by valleyboy |
Stay in the EU?????
After the way you have seen the EU wanting to punish the U.K.??????
To be ruled by unelected Eurocrats
Knowing it’s Geranany that’s pulling the strings
Can’t believe some people are that dull |
Jesus wept... |  |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 10:18 - Jul 10 with 1391 views | felixstowe_jack |
You are assuming that the EU would let the UK reverse article 50 which the UK has given notice to the EU that the UK is leaving in March 2019. Judging by the hardline adopted by the EU I think they would make us leave in March 2019 then apply to join the EU making the UK join the Euro and giving up it's rebate as conditions of joining. | |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 10:28 - Jul 10 with 1382 views | WarwickHunt |
| If you voted Leave....... on 10:18 - Jul 10 by felixstowe_jack |
You are assuming that the EU would let the UK reverse article 50 which the UK has given notice to the EU that the UK is leaving in March 2019. Judging by the hardline adopted by the EU I think they would make us leave in March 2019 then apply to join the EU making the UK join the Euro and giving up it's rebate as conditions of joining. |
Wrong - and that’s from Tusk and the person who drafted it.
ps it’s its not it’s. | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 10:30 - Jul 10 with 1381 views | Nookiejack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 22:30 - Jul 9 by hobo |
I think the majority of those people have realised their mistake by now. Remain would win overwhelmingly if there's a re-vote. |
Not according to the latest survey from the National Centre for social research.
‘The public is divided into two evenly sized groups who have coalesced around opposing views of the UK’s future relationship with the EU. Politicians face an uphill struggle to deliver a post-referendum settlement that will unite the country.’
http://www.bsa.natcen.ac.uk/media/39285/bsa35_key-findings.pdf
Refelects this thread I suppose. | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 10:43 - Jul 10 with 1363 views | Shaky |
| If you voted Leave....... on 01:06 - Jul 10 by Nookiejack |
Yes terrifying times indeed if you think about what a United States of Europe means - governed by an unelected EU Commission. |
Tell us what it means then? Spell it out!
Otherwise this is just hysterical fear-mongering. |  |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 10:51 - Jul 10 with 1348 views | Batterseajack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 09:54 - Jul 10 by swan65split |
Initially we were conned into joining, we voted to stay in later....that to me proved a disaster, and not what was promised.
we own nothing , its all gone abroad, and now threatening to take it abroad if we leave the EU.
The disaster has occurred. |
Has the last 30 years really been a disaster for you? Globalisation would still happen outside of the EU you know.
There was a Kiwi chap talking on R4 this morning about potential British / New Zealand trade after Brexit. Great for NZ and us consumers, unlimited cheap NZ lamb - but what would that mean for the Welsh farmer? | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 10:54 - Jul 10 with 1347 views | Kerouac |
Brexit: The Next Campaign By a Former Civil Servant
1 day agoby Briefings For Brexit 665 Views
Written by Briefings For Brexit
"By its weakness and lack of courage, the government is about to transform Brexit into a permanent feature of the British political landscape. Instead of forging a new relationship with Europe, we now face decades of rancorous dispute and souring relations.
Was it ever thus? Probably.
At any rate, we are now poised to give new life to the old adage that the British fight well and negotiate poorly.
If the decisions taken at Chequers last Friday are allowed to stand, immense damage will have been done to British democracy. The result of the referendum of June 2016 was a majority decision to leave the European Union. What we are now offered verges on Brexit-in-name-only (BINO?). We will take law from Europe on vast swathes of our commerce. Our ability to strike trade deals will be circumscribed. European courts will continue to subvert British law. In Whitehall, tongues are already wagging about a major climb-down on immigration come autumn. To say that we are about to make ourselves a vassal state is not mere rhetoric — it is a simple matter of definition.
As Gisela Stuart writes in the Telegraph (6 July 2018), it is hard to imagine a comparable state of affairs if things had gone the other way in 2016.
None of this is particularly surprising. The EU has been the blight of European democracy for the better part of a quarter of a century. Within the last decade it has suspended democracy in Greece and Ireland. Even the composition of Italian cabinets is subject to EU consent. Southern Europe has been trapped in fiscal bondage to sustain the ever-more dystopic dreams of the Eurocracy.
Most of this proceeded with the connivance of national governments. ‘Is this what the men of 1916 died for?’ The Irish Times wondered as it inspected the terms of the bailout of 2010 — to no avail. Irish Taoisigh have spent the last generation chastising their electorates for voting down EU treaty after EU treaty; moralised and told the ‘ignorant’ public to try again — under material threat, when necessary.
There is nothing new about the rhetoric we have heard in the last couple of years: the accusations of ignorance, the doom-laden prophecies of viagraic Jeremiahs, the panic and the wailing. Not even when an addled ex-Prime Minister, winner of the largest popular vote in history, condemned the voice of the people as a kind of tyranny; not even when a Chancellor threatened his electors with a Carthaginian budget if they would not eat their Brussels, as they were told. The most alarming this is, they seem to mean it.
Brexit gave hope for the reinvigoration of democracy, that ailing light of the West, in the United Kingdom; but if it had a purpose beyond these shores, it was in the repudiation of this whispering tyranny, in the living expression of freedom and courage over submission and fear. Long ago, a French philosopher lamented: ‘in Europe, the last sigh of liberty will be heaved by an Englishman’.
As the prospect of a new trade relationship with the US slips away, we may do well to commune with the history that our two countries share. A little more than a century and a half ago, Abraham Lincoln said that ‘government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth’.
The struggle must go on.
About a hundred years ago, some Irish politicians were trying to separate their country from the United Kingdom. The Anglo-Irish Treaty did not resolve the issue, and the divisions it caused still shape the politics of the Republic today. But that treaty was not the end of the matter. Treaties, after all, can be revised. Of course, constrained by size, Ireland’s quest for independence has never found its mark.
Our situation is much more hopeful. To say that Britain is a great country is not to seek refuge in nostalgia. We are connected by history and by language to robust, liberal, and likeminded democracies in every quarter of the globe. We are one of the largest economies in the World and London is the only world-city in Eurasia. Our culture reaches every continent. We are the second military power in the West and our security services are second to none.
Such a country will not be able to abide a state of dependence for very long.
We are surely edging closer to the hour when the hulk of Theresa May’s premiership is hauled off to the breakers’ yard. That moment is unlikely to inspire any Temeraire-like depictions — Tracey Emin’s ice-cream parlour sign in St Pancras is probably the closest we’ll get.
Future British governments will have to unravel these chains. The tensions that they will inevitably foster both within the United Kingdom and between Britain and Europe will give form to British politics for as long as they remain in place. And the longer they remain in place as Britain strives to reinvent itself, the tighter the chains will seem.
It is our job — the job of all those who believe that the United Kingdom should be free to govern itself — to make sure that the next Prime Minister is committed to overturning the likely settlement between the EU and the UK, unilaterally, if need be. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, an insidious presence at the heart of government, must be removed as a matter of urgency. His implacable hostility to the verdict of the people, his refusal to make any contingency plans for a no-deal scenario, brought us to this impasse.
In the longer term, we must work to strengthen links with all the major political parties, with a view to the next General Election, and to support those MPs who have upheld the result of the referendum in the House of Commons. And pro-Brexit organisations must continue to hold up their message, to dispel pro-EU propaganda, and, above all, to win over new supporters.
By its weakness and lack of courage, the government is about to transform Brexit into a permanent feature of the British political landscape. Many of us hoped for better things. But Downing Street’s death-spasm has put paid to even the most modest dreams. Instead of forging a new relationship with Europe, we now face decades of rancorous disputes and souring relations. For instead of certainty and security, we meet the thrall of capricious bodies in faraway places. There is no surer recipe for confrontation.
Some will see the collapse at Chequers on Friday as a victory; a stepping-stone to overturning the referendum entirely. This remains unlikely.
So in a perverse way, Brexit now seems more inevitable — but the road longer, and the journey more bitter. It did not have to be this way, but the oligarchy defends in depth. What judgement history will pass on Brexit itself is still undisclosed; the judgement it will pass on our leaders in 2018 is rather more predictable.
The cause is still a worthy one — for all the reasons we have expressed in the last two years, and all the way back to Maastricht. It is worthier still in light of July 6th and Mrs May’s Declaration of Dependence." |  |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 11:00 - Jul 10 with 1337 views | Nookiejack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 10:43 - Jul 10 by Shaky |
Tell us what it means then? Spell it out!
Otherwise this is just hysterical fear-mongering. |
Here’s a review of Guy Verhofstadt’s book Europe’a Last Chance
https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Europe_s_Last_Chance.html?id=4SnXCwAAQBAJ
‘Verhofstadt, former prime minister of Belgium, issues a call to action in this thoughtful and well-argued policy primer. Verhofstadt states that Europe is in crisis and “stretched beyond measure” due to various problems: Brexit, an influx of refugees, ISIS, Russia’s aggression, and more. He offers a new vision intended to unite Europe and dispel old nationalisms, which, he states, pose even more danger than these new issues. Europe needs to pull together much as the United States did after discarding the “terribly ineffective” Articles of Confederation in favor of the U.S. Constitution. He see Europe’s only remedy as being the American federal model, stating that a united Europe can better head off terrorism and survive economic downturns. In five sections, respectively entitled “At the Brink,” “Delusion,” “Decay,” “Panic,” and “Rebirth,” Verhofstadt anatomizes Europe’s fractured state. Ultimately, he remains hopeful for a truly united continent that can protect its citizens, remain a valuable American ally, and face future challenges. Impassioned and logically sound, this clearly presented treatise presents an appealing way forward from a troubled present. (Jan.) | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:04 - Jul 10 with 1325 views | WarwickHunt |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:00 - Jul 10 by Nookiejack |
Here’s a review of Guy Verhofstadt’s book Europe’a Last Chance
https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Europe_s_Last_Chance.html?id=4SnXCwAAQBAJ
‘Verhofstadt, former prime minister of Belgium, issues a call to action in this thoughtful and well-argued policy primer. Verhofstadt states that Europe is in crisis and “stretched beyond measure” due to various problems: Brexit, an influx of refugees, ISIS, Russia’s aggression, and more. He offers a new vision intended to unite Europe and dispel old nationalisms, which, he states, pose even more danger than these new issues. Europe needs to pull together much as the United States did after discarding the “terribly ineffective” Articles of Confederation in favor of the U.S. Constitution. He see Europe’s only remedy as being the American federal model, stating that a united Europe can better head off terrorism and survive economic downturns. In five sections, respectively entitled “At the Brink,” “Delusion,” “Decay,” “Panic,” and “Rebirth,” Verhofstadt anatomizes Europe’s fractured state. Ultimately, he remains hopeful for a truly united continent that can protect its citizens, remain a valuable American ally, and face future challenges. Impassioned and logically sound, this clearly presented treatise presents an appealing way forward from a troubled present. (Jan.) |
Have another go. | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:05 - Jul 10 with 1324 views | Nookiejack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:00 - Jul 10 by Nookiejack |
Here’s a review of Guy Verhofstadt’s book Europe’a Last Chance
https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Europe_s_Last_Chance.html?id=4SnXCwAAQBAJ
‘Verhofstadt, former prime minister of Belgium, issues a call to action in this thoughtful and well-argued policy primer. Verhofstadt states that Europe is in crisis and “stretched beyond measure” due to various problems: Brexit, an influx of refugees, ISIS, Russia’s aggression, and more. He offers a new vision intended to unite Europe and dispel old nationalisms, which, he states, pose even more danger than these new issues. Europe needs to pull together much as the United States did after discarding the “terribly ineffective” Articles of Confederation in favor of the U.S. Constitution. He see Europe’s only remedy as being the American federal model, stating that a united Europe can better head off terrorism and survive economic downturns. In five sections, respectively entitled “At the Brink,” “Delusion,” “Decay,” “Panic,” and “Rebirth,” Verhofstadt anatomizes Europe’s fractured state. Ultimately, he remains hopeful for a truly united continent that can protect its citizens, remain a valuable American ally, and face future challenges. Impassioned and logically sound, this clearly presented treatise presents an appealing way forward from a troubled present. (Jan.) |
Here’s a piece about Macron’s vision for a United States of Europe
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/europe/2018/02/europe-after-storm-how-emmanue | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:06 - Jul 10 with 1322 views | Kerouac |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:00 - Jul 10 by Nookiejack |
Here’s a review of Guy Verhofstadt’s book Europe’a Last Chance
https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Europe_s_Last_Chance.html?id=4SnXCwAAQBAJ
‘Verhofstadt, former prime minister of Belgium, issues a call to action in this thoughtful and well-argued policy primer. Verhofstadt states that Europe is in crisis and “stretched beyond measure” due to various problems: Brexit, an influx of refugees, ISIS, Russia’s aggression, and more. He offers a new vision intended to unite Europe and dispel old nationalisms, which, he states, pose even more danger than these new issues. Europe needs to pull together much as the United States did after discarding the “terribly ineffective” Articles of Confederation in favor of the U.S. Constitution. He see Europe’s only remedy as being the American federal model, stating that a united Europe can better head off terrorism and survive economic downturns. In five sections, respectively entitled “At the Brink,” “Delusion,” “Decay,” “Panic,” and “Rebirth,” Verhofstadt anatomizes Europe’s fractured state. Ultimately, he remains hopeful for a truly united continent that can protect its citizens, remain a valuable American ally, and face future challenges. Impassioned and logically sound, this clearly presented treatise presents an appealing way forward from a troubled present. (Jan.) |
He is right of course, this is the only way forward for the EU now...certainly the states that adopted the Euro.
The problem is that nobody in Europe actually wants it and any move in that direction creates even more problems than they have already got on their plate.
It is an unholy f*cking mess. | |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 11:08 - Jul 10 with 1320 views | peenemunde |
| If you voted Leave....... on 08:11 - Jul 10 by WarwickHunt |
Ekectrol?
Is that how they spell it in Geranany? |
Your whole argument is based upon people who press the wrong key or are using predictive txt.
Do you work in an office, do you smoke and are you a bit over weight ?.
Were you bullied at any time in your life ?. |  | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:16 - Jul 10 with 1311 views | Nookiejack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:06 - Jul 10 by Kerouac |
He is right of course, this is the only way forward for the EU now...certainly the states that adopted the Euro.
The problem is that nobody in Europe actually wants it and any move in that direction creates even more problems than they have already got on their plate.
It is an unholy f*cking mess. |
Yes and people in this thread have argued that Leavers are split into hard and soft Brexiters.
What about Remainers - how many of them want a United States of Europe - as is the vision of 2 of Europe’s leaders Macron and Verhofatadt.
The Remainers keep saying the Brexiteers have low IQs but have they thought through a United States of Europe Model - is that what they want? | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:17 - Jul 10 with 1305 views | Ebo |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:08 - Jul 10 by peenemunde |
Your whole argument is based upon people who press the wrong key or are using predictive txt.
Do you work in an office, do you smoke and are you a bit over weight ?.
Were you bullied at any time in your life ?. |
Phil is none of those 3, he is merely stating that before starting a debate,ensure you have the necessary grammar and factual knowledge to back up what you want to say. Otherwise it makes you look a steaming pile of dog shit.
Capisce? | |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 11:17 - Jul 10 with 1303 views | Batterseajack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:16 - Jul 10 by Nookiejack |
Yes and people in this thread have argued that Leavers are split into hard and soft Brexiters.
What about Remainers - how many of them want a United States of Europe - as is the vision of 2 of Europe’s leaders Macron and Verhofatadt.
The Remainers keep saying the Brexiteers have low IQs but have they thought through a United States of Europe Model - is that what they want? |
LOL - getting very desperate on the leave side. | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:21 - Jul 10 with 1295 views | Nookiejack |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:16 - Jul 10 by Nookiejack |
Yes and people in this thread have argued that Leavers are split into hard and soft Brexiters.
What about Remainers - how many of them want a United States of Europe - as is the vision of 2 of Europe’s leaders Macron and Verhofatadt.
The Remainers keep saying the Brexiteers have low IQs but have they thought through a United States of Europe Model - is that what they want? |
ie Common Parliament, common currency, common taxation system, common defence force, common border control force? | | | |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:23 - Jul 10 with 1293 views | Kerouac |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:17 - Jul 10 by Batterseajack |
LOL - getting very desperate on the leave side. |
Completely f*cking deluded on the 'Remainer' side. | |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 11:31 - Jul 10 with 1277 views | Shaky |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:21 - Jul 10 by Nookiejack |
ie Common Parliament, common currency, common taxation system, common defence force, common border control force? |
Well that is certainly one vision of the future of Europe, although many generally pro-EU countries would disagree.
But even so what is it specifically you find terrifying about common taxation? Or anything else? | |
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| If you voted Leave....... on 11:32 - Jul 10 with 1277 views | peenemunde |
| If you voted Leave....... on 11:17 - Jul 10 by Ebo |
Phil is none of those 3, he is merely stating that before starting a debate,ensure you have the necessary grammar and factual knowledge to back up what you want to say. Otherwise it makes you look a steaming pile of dog shit.
Capisce? |
It’s not an English exam.....He along with the likes of you have lost the argument a long time ago and then have to resort pulling people up on their grammar.
And surely if you are such a stickler for grammar, shouldn’t it be Phil is none of those three and not Phil is none of those 3......? | | | |
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