| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action 16:13 - Jul 21 with 28779 views | Vetchfielder |
I’ve reviewed the Consultation Papers that arrived today and they are well presented and clear. Personally I could have added a couple more lines to the Pro’s section for legal action but it is specifically it is the aspect of legal fees in the Consultation Papers has left me with major gripes.
The first thing is that we don’t seem to have got a quotation or even an estimate of the legal costs of going ahead with legal action. If we did get a quotation or estimate then it has not been included in the documentation. Has the Trust Board asked for an estimate, was one provided and what are the details ?
What about a "No-Win / No-Fee" type of legal engagement— mentioned by Dai Little in the first Trust meeting yet I can see no mention of this in the documentation?
Regarding the magnitude of legal costs, the words we are given are:
(a) In the Options Matrix, Impact on Trust Funds section: “Likely substantial reduction, possibly wiped out completely, or worse”.
(b) In the Cons section of Option 2: “Legal action is costly and unpredictable. There is a real chance the Trust could lose, in which case the existing funds of over £800,000 could be wiped out or even lead to the Trust being in debt. If legal costs were to exceed the current Trust funds, which is a likely scenario, it is unclear at this time how the Trust would be able to fund these costs — which may impact the Trust’s ability to proceed beyond that point”.
Regarding (a), no detail is provided as to exactly what “worse” means in practical terms and how we would deal with it.
Also, there is a big contradiction between funds “possibly” wiped out in (a) and a “likely” scenario of debt in (b) which means it’s probable. So I don’t know whether the Trust Board thinks it’s just possible or that it's probable and exactly on what that judgement is based.
For me, the really disappointing words here in (b) are “it is unclear at this time how the Trust would be able to fund these costs”. The Trust Board has known about the potential for legal action for many many months so has had more than ample time to take advice, have a clear view, have a plan and identify a proposed approach if the funds aren’t sufficient for legal action.
On the basis of these Papers, I feel that not enough effort has gone into establishing what litigation really means in £ terms of legal costs and how the Trust could/would fund it, possibly because we have been distracted by what the Trust Board consider an acceptable offer. |  |
| Proud to have been one of the 231 |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 19:28 - Jul 28 with 2087 views | MattG |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 19:16 - Jul 28 by Shaky |
. . .and just to spell out the bleeding obvious, the problem with the voting mechanism as set out is this.
Many people are seemingly taking the view that it is all too complicated so they just go with the recommendation of the Trust on the accepting the deal.
If that goes against the wishes of the board, those same people are likely to go with what they assume is the position of the Trust board; no change in the shareholding as was the bull-horned strategy for so long.
And if that happens you are fcuking screwed. Or more correctly you and the rest of Team Phil will have royally screwed up. |
As I mentioned earlier, I don't agree with the assumption that everyone who votes for the deal will automatically vote for no change as their second choice. |  | | |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 19:37 - Jul 28 with 2063 views | Shaky |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 19:28 - Jul 28 by MattG |
As I mentioned earlier, I don't agree with the assumption that everyone who votes for the deal will automatically vote for no change as their second choice. |
I am not making that assumption, Matt.
But I do believe that self-evidently the vast majority of those voting for the deal will also vote in favour of the status quo.
FWIW, I should also say I don't really belive in the conspiracy theory.
Cock-up is usually far more likely, and I am sorry to say I have seen little evidence that you guys have thought this through properly. |  |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 19:49 - Jul 28 with 2046 views | MattG |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 19:37 - Jul 28 by Shaky |
I am not making that assumption, Matt.
But I do believe that self-evidently the vast majority of those voting for the deal will also vote in favour of the status quo.
FWIW, I should also say I don't really belive in the conspiracy theory.
Cock-up is usually far more likely, and I am sorry to say I have seen little evidence that you guys have thought this through properly. |
I really don't see voting for the deal and then for the status quo as being any more of a natural progression than voting for the deal and then for legal action. | | | |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:01 - Jul 28 with 2027 views | Joe_bradshaw |
I voted for the deal and then for litigation should I be on the losing side because those that voted for litigation deserve their litigation should they be in the majority.
I also think that do nothing is the worst option of the three. |  |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:04 - Jul 28 with 2019 views | vetchonian |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 17:43 - Jul 28 by JENKINSOUT |
indeed it has but you wont let it go - even get your wingmen to do the work for you
do you realise its possible to vote yes to question one and also yes to litigation? |
I'm actually trying to argue the unbiased case to Nookie trying to explain that it is not weighted as many are trying to imply |  |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:06 - Jul 28 with 2003 views | Landore_Jack |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:01 - Jul 28 by Joe_bradshaw |
I voted for the deal and then for litigation should I be on the losing side because those that voted for litigation deserve their litigation should they be in the majority.
I also think that do nothing is the worst option of the three. |
Same here. |  |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:12 - Jul 28 with 1976 views | E20Jack |
The Americans and the old board will be rubbing their hands together with glee when (not if) this deal gets announced. Utterly sickening result all round and there will be a lot of focus on those that pushed this deal through when sh*t hits the fan. |  |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:19 - Jul 28 with 1948 views | JENKINSOUT |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:12 - Jul 28 by E20Jack |
The Americans and the old board will be rubbing their hands together with glee when (not if) this deal gets announced. Utterly sickening result all round and there will be a lot of focus on those that pushed this deal through when sh*t hits the fan. |
indeed these people are evil B*stards who take shite all the time from total c*nts like yourself hiding behind a keyboard without the balls to stand up and even try and make a difference. if there should be focus on anyone its the keyboard c*nts who do what you have done tirelessly for weeks and your ilk. c*nt | |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:24 - Jul 28 with 1935 views | E20Jack |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:19 - Jul 28 by JENKINSOUT |
indeed these people are evil B*stards who take shite all the time from total c*nts like yourself hiding behind a keyboard without the balls to stand up and even try and make a difference. if there should be focus on anyone its the keyboard c*nts who do what you have done tirelessly for weeks and your ilk. c*nt |
...said Huw Jenkins' alias | |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:32 - Jul 28 with 1904 views | vetchonian |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:24 - Jul 28 by E20Jack |
...said Huw Jenkins' alias |
So if you feel so passionate why haven't you stood for election to the Trust board and start to change things? | |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:36 - Jul 28 with 1900 views | E20Jack |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:32 - Jul 28 by vetchonian |
So if you feel so passionate why haven't you stood for election to the Trust board and start to change things? |
The same reason why I haven't run for Mayor of London, applied for the Swansea City managerial post or Prime Minister of the United Kingdom yet still harbour strong opinions on the running of all three (have you applied for any of those by the way?). | |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:41 - Jul 28 with 1881 views | vetchonian |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:36 - Jul 28 by E20Jack |
The same reason why I haven't run for Mayor of London, applied for the Swansea City managerial post or Prime Minister of the United Kingdom yet still harbour strong opinions on the running of all three (have you applied for any of those by the way?). |
What a crap response I asked a simple question you have so much to say about the trust but like most haven't the conviction to put up. | |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:47 - Jul 28 with 1860 views | E20Jack |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:41 - Jul 28 by vetchonian |
What a crap response I asked a simple question you have so much to say about the trust but like most haven't the conviction to put up. |
It is a perfect response. 99.9999999% of this country has not ran for election of any kind in any constituency yet have opinions and the right to express them as well as vote. You have joined this website to discuss Swansea opinions, do you agree with everything the management do? (I can search your post history remember) Did you like the appointment of Bradley? If not, why didn't you apply for the job instead?
It is such a weak argument that is trotted out every time. The simple fact is people are busy. I have a hectic work schedule in London (but have offered my services a few times to the Trust when I felt their PR was and continues to be woeful). The Trust should be run by local people or people with a lot of spare time to dedicate to it... I possess neither the time nor locality. But to suggest that invalidates my opinion and observations as a result is quite frankly a load of tosh. | |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:48 - Jul 28 with 1857 views | felixstowe_jack |
Don't think he is qualified for any of the jobs in his list. | |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:50 - Jul 28 with 1845 views | E20Jack |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:48 - Jul 28 by felixstowe_jack |
Don't think he is qualified for any of the jobs in his list. |
Then I assume he is seeking the qualifications as we speak to become sufficiently qualified to make the change. right?
...of course not. | |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 21:14 - Jul 28 with 1791 views | vetchonian |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 20:47 - Jul 28 by E20Jack |
It is a perfect response. 99.9999999% of this country has not ran for election of any kind in any constituency yet have opinions and the right to express them as well as vote. You have joined this website to discuss Swansea opinions, do you agree with everything the management do? (I can search your post history remember) Did you like the appointment of Bradley? If not, why didn't you apply for the job instead?
It is such a weak argument that is trotted out every time. The simple fact is people are busy. I have a hectic work schedule in London (but have offered my services a few times to the Trust when I felt their PR was and continues to be woeful). The Trust should be run by local people or people with a lot of spare time to dedicate to it... I possess neither the time nor locality. But to suggest that invalidates my opinion and observations as a result is quite frankly a load of tosh. |
There is a difference between expressing an opinion v personal attacks | |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 21:19 - Jul 28 with 1782 views | Flashberryjack |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 21:14 - Jul 28 by vetchonian |
There is a difference between expressing an opinion v personal attacks |
I'm no longer a trust member, and I've commented about litigation, I make no apologies for that. |  |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 21:46 - Jul 28 with 1741 views | E20Jack |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 21:14 - Jul 28 by vetchonian |
There is a difference between expressing an opinion v personal attacks |
Where was the personal attack? | |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 21:52 - Jul 28 with 1729 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
divide and conquer |  |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 11:41 - Jul 29 with 1646 views | Meraki |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 15:00 - Jul 28 by vetchonian |
I think yoyu will find I am |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 14:10 - Jul 29 with 1590 views | harryhpalmer |
Still no voting papers, and no response back from any of the three email addresses I have sent my mail pointing that out.
I know the Trust is done on a volunteer basis, but with the importance of this vote - the most important I feel since its inception, surely someone should be checking the mailboxes set up for the vote on a daily basis and answering, even if it's just an acknowledgement.
When does this vote have to be in by? Getting concerned I am not going to get my constitutional right, and, if that happens, then the Trust will be history for me from this point onwards. | |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 14:18 - Jul 29 with 1582 views | E20Jack |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 14:10 - Jul 29 by harryhpalmer |
Still no voting papers, and no response back from any of the three email addresses I have sent my mail pointing that out.
I know the Trust is done on a volunteer basis, but with the importance of this vote - the most important I feel since its inception, surely someone should be checking the mailboxes set up for the vote on a daily basis and answering, even if it's just an acknowledgement.
When does this vote have to be in by? Getting concerned I am not going to get my constitutional right, and, if that happens, then the Trust will be history for me from this point onwards. |
Tell them you want to vote to take the deal. You will get it hand delivered within the hour I'd have thought. | |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 14:28 - Jul 29 with 1571 views | waynekerr55 |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 16:36 - Jul 28 by waynekerr55 |
Could anyone explain why we would want to maintain the status quo as we are? Do shares attract a 'hope value' as freehold titles acquired by means of an acquisition order? |
Anyone know the answer to this? |  |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 14:41 - Jul 29 with 1557 views | monmouth |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 14:28 - Jul 29 by waynekerr55 |
Anyone know the answer to this? |
Yes. The same reason people vote for Labour in Wales, the Tories in England, and the SNP in Scotland.
They don't fully understand the situation, or have an outdated perception of the reality. Or they do understand, and just like to do dull things for a laugh. Or they've had a bump on the head. Or they are numerically obsessed dudes that think that more shares are better even when they aren't. Probably take double the dose of all medicines as if one tablet is good, two must be better, right?
Or they have no critical facilities of their own. Oh no, sorry, that would mean voting for the deal. 
Yep, I think that just about covers it |  |
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| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 16:19 - Jul 29 with 1497 views | Uxbridge |
| Consultation Papers - Cost of Legal Action on 14:10 - Jul 29 by harryhpalmer |
Still no voting papers, and no response back from any of the three email addresses I have sent my mail pointing that out.
I know the Trust is done on a volunteer basis, but with the importance of this vote - the most important I feel since its inception, surely someone should be checking the mailboxes set up for the vote on a daily basis and answering, even if it's just an acknowledgement.
When does this vote have to be in by? Getting concerned I am not going to get my constitutional right, and, if that happens, then the Trust will be history for me from this point onwards. |
From the Trust email you should have had
Whilst the Trust's website, which was kindly designed and is supported by Majestic Media, will not be directly affected, the contact links to the Trust via the website and other direct links via email, including the consultation and scrutineer swanstrust addresses being used for the current consultation exercise may not be available at some point during the upgrade period which will last between 7pm on Friday July 28th and 10pm on Sunday July 30th.
If you don't have a response by Monday drop me a Pm with your email address. If you've used the consultation one, I've not seen an email at least. You have til 15th August anyway. |  |
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