| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station 08:58 - Mar 22 with 25708 views | MrSwerve |
FFS, fed up of this now. Said to be suicide bombers screaming Arabic by eye witnesses. |  |
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 13:47 - Mar 26 with 1963 views | dgt73 |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 13:34 - Mar 26 by WarwickHunt |
It was until you used it... |
I know you're a bit simple - but I haven't used that ridiculous term . |  |
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 14:16 - Mar 26 with 1933 views | WarwickHunt |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 13:47 - Mar 26 by dgt73 |
I know you're a bit simple - but I haven't used that ridiculous term . |
PMSL.
Tw@t. |  | | |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 14:59 - Mar 26 with 1901 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 12:27 - Mar 26 by Kerouac |
NEWS REPUBLIC
Prison sentence for Egyptian Christian teens over video mocking Islamic State group highlights rise in blasphemy prosecutions
ASSOCIATED PRESS ASSOCIATED PRESS
FRIDAY, MARCH 25, 2016 7:00 AM GMT
NASSARIYA, Egypt (AP) – In the video, the Egyptian Christian teens laugh playfully as a couple of them kneel down, imitating Muslim prayers, then another slides his hand under one boy's neck, imitating the trademark beheadings of the Islamic State group.
The boys were playing around, satirizing the extremist group, and their school supervisor just happened to be videoing them, their defenders say. The result has been catastrophic: they were sentenced to prison under Egypt's blasphemy laws – they were mocking Muslim prayers, prosecutors said – and have fled into hiding, leaving behind shattered families.
"My son was sentenced to five years for a laugh," Iman Aziz, weeping, said in the teens' home village of Nassariya in southern Egypt. Her son, Muller Atef, was seen in the 32-second video laughing but not joining in the "prayers."
The verdict last month points to an irony in Egypt. Two years ago, the military ousted the Muslim Brotherhood from power, and since then the government has been waging a harsh crackdown on Islamists.
Yet in the past three years, prosecutions on charges of insulting Islam have risen dramatically. From three such cases in 2011, there were 21 cases in the courts in 2015, around half targeting Christians, according to Ishaq Ibrahim, a researcher with the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights.
Nine of the 2015 cases led to convictions and prison sentences, while the rest are still in the courts.
Part of the rise is connected to the spread of social media over recent years, Ibrahim said, with people feeling freer to express controversial opinions online. Many of the cases have originated in comments or videos posted on the Internet that Muslims raised court cases over. One Christian was even sentenced to six years in prison in 2014 for insulting religion after his Muslim neighbors discovered he had "liked" a Facebook page supporting Muslims who convert to Christianity.
But also, prosecutors and judges have aggressively pursued the cases, aiming to show that the state is still "protecting Islam" even as it cracks down on Islamists. It isn't necessary a government policy – "I still don't think this is a systematic campaign, but there is a pattern," Ibrahim said. But it is one factor in the "overall shrinking of freedom of expression and thought" in Egypt, he said.
The cases have fallen predominantly on members of Egypt's Coptic Christian minority, who make up around 10 percent of the country's 90 million people. Christians have been among the strongest supporters of President Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi, who as army chief organized the 2013 ouster of Islamist President Mohammed Morsi and the Brotherhood. When el-Sissi attended Copts' Christmas Mass in Cairo's main cathedral – the first Egyptian president to do so – he was given a rock-star greeting by thousands of cheering worshippers.
But in some ways, little has changed under el-Sissi for Christians, who long complained of discrimination.
Large-scale attacks on churches that flared in revenge for Morsi's ouster have waned. But on a local level, frictions continue to erupt between Christians and Muslims in villages and small towns. Attempts to build or renovate churches, for example, are still often met by protests or violence by local Muslims, said Ibrahim.
In disputes, authorities tend to side with Muslims, said Nader Shukry, a Copts' rights advocate. Christians blamed for actions deemed insulting to Muslims often face eviction from their hometown or swift trials with heavy sentences. But if Christians are victims of actions by Muslims, police officers bring the two sides in to informal reconciliation meetings in which the Christians are pressured into dropping any legal action, Shukry said.
Under el-Sissi, it is "the same game," Shukry said. "The president's talk is something and what is happening on the ground is something else."
Also problematic are the laws against insulting religion. A 1982 law sets a punishment of up to five years in prison and fines for anyone who "exploits religion" or promotes "extremist thought" to "spark sedition, insult or blaspheme the heavenly religions ... or harm the national unity." Any Muslim can raise a complaint over a perceived insult to religion, giving a free hand for lawsuits.
"The worst is that it is vague and has no ceiling," said Maher Naguib, the teens' lawyer. "If you send one case to two judges, judges would differ on defining what is an insult."
Al-Azhar, Sunni Islam's pre-eminent institution, which el-Sissi has empowered to lead his "revolution" against extremist, backs the blasphemy law.
In February, an online activist Mustafa Abdel-Nabi was sentenced to three years in absentia for postings about atheism on his Facebook page. A writer, Fatma Naoot, was sentenced to three years in prison in January over Facebook postings criticizing the slaughter of animals for Muslim holidays. A prominent TV host, Islam Behery, received a one-year prison sentence after calling for passages he said supported terrorism to be removed from books of Islamic religious interpretation.
In the case of the teens, their video didn't even go on line. The teens didn't distribute the video, but Muslim acquaintances happened to see it on their phones a couple of months later.
An uproar spread among the town's Muslims, and angry villagers attacked the families' homes.
To assuage their anger, the parents and the church slaughtered cows and turkeys for a banquet for the villagers. When prosecutors announced charges against the boys, the parents handed them over to the mayor to give to the police, confident it would all be cleared up. Some Muslim neighbors showed solidarity with the parents, testifying to prosecutors that the teens are known as good boys.
In its investigation report, the prosecutor described the video but did not mention the part where they mocked the Islamic State group's beheadings, the part that proves who was the real target of their laughter, the defense argues. The video came shortly after 21 Christian migrant workers from a village near Nassariya were beheaded by IS militants in Libya. The report said the case is "packed with evidence," including the fact that one of the suspects was "smiling."
Naguib said that judges refused to watch the video despite his requests. When one judge finally did, he ordered the teens' release pending trial.
The four teens and their supervisor, who was forced to leave the village with his family, were all convicted. Though all the defendants are under 18, three were sentenced to adult prison for five years and one to a juvenile detention facility for three years. The supervisor received a three year prison sentence.
"They are witch-hunting. There is arrogance, intolerance to others," Naguib said.
When asked why he believes authorities pressed the case so aggressively, he said: "Extremism, an attempt to appease the masses at the expense of the young men."
When the verdicts were announced, the teens fled, fearing their parents would hand them over to police again. One mother, Fadya Shehata Moussa said her son, Bassem Amgad Hanna, lashed at out her as he left, saying he would throw out his mobile phone chip and cut off all contacts with her.
Iman Shaker Hanna, the mother of 16-year-old Albert Hanna, said her whole family erupted in screams at the verdict. Except her, she was too shocked.
"I sat silently for hours... people were telling me to cry but there were no tears," she said. "I asked God: Is it over, is there no hope?" |
There are some that say that this is understandable, after all these are "Islamic" countries. They are of course, but only by conquest. Every country in the Levant and North Africa along with Iraq, Iran and others have a massive Christian pre history well before Islam was even dreamt of.
Look at Kosovo as a far more recent example of what happens to other faiths when Islam rocks up. The Coptic Christans of Egypt have been living in servitude and humiliation under the dominance of Islam since 700-800 AD. But still they carry on, and that in itself is a miracle. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 16:35 - Mar 26 with 1860 views | VetchitBack |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 23:48 - Mar 25 by Humpty |
Well, you've selected a load of quotes from the Koran which don't paint it in a very good light.
I could equally do the same for the Bible. Including the New Testament. |
Yes you could. And I could. And Patricia Routledge could. And the drummer from Coldplay.
But seeing as the Bible is an interpretation of God's wishes whilst the Koran is literal Instruction and seeing as finding Christians now who are justifying horrific violence with biblical inscription is difficult whilst Muslims easy your point is of no relevance other than to show that for some reason you are trying to deflect criticism from an ultra-conservative, misogynist supremacy. |  |
| The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 18:53 - Mar 26 with 1810 views | Kerouac |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 13:16 - Mar 26 by londonlisa2001 |
If you are, then could you possibly take your 'proof' from sources that don't start off with saying stuff like 'Islam's Allah is a different God to the one that pre Islam Arabs used to worship'. Since that is, you know, completely wrong and tends to cast doubt on every other 'fact' that the site then goes on to state.
Also if you could avoid stating nonsense such as 'the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament' then that would also be great, since, again, that is wrong.
Just to give you a hint to start you off, the three religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have exactly the same Abrahamic God - 'Allah' is simply Arabic for 'God'. Same one they are talking about. And both Judaism and Islam recognise Jesus as well as Christianity. The only difference is that Judaism and Islam recognise Jesus as a prophet not the 'Son of God'.
Whatever type of Jesus you are talking about of course, the reality is that he was Jewish and therefore, the Old Testament is exactly the religious teaching he would have adhered to, with all those lovely quotes about stoning people and women and homosexuality that you seem to believe only apply in Islam. You can probably get some lovely quotes if you wish from the Westboro Church loons, who are the Christian equivalent of the 'Islamic scholars' that you love to quote so often. Meanwhile, the rest of the sane world writes them off as crazy morons in much the way that the vast majority of Moslems writes off their loons as crazy morons.
Still, at least we have the variety of you using a different name to post these days, although the signature mix of falsehood, hatred and selective googling of nonsense from other hate filled morons remains intact as does your constant claim to have 'read' both the Koran and the Bible (which seems a bit odd given that you constantly resort to google and also are unable to recognise when the results of your googling throw up stuff that's plain wrong but there we go - perhaps you're just a bit thick)?
As you were. |
Pick the bones out of this Lisa.
This is how loving, peaceful, tolerant "muslims" are treated by some of their fellow muslims.
(It is worth noting that the sect this man belongs too is persecuted in the likes of Pakistan);
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3509367/Muslim-shopkeeper-stabbed-death- |  |
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 21:43 - Mar 26 with 1759 views | Kerouac |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 13:16 - Mar 26 by londonlisa2001 |
If you are, then could you possibly take your 'proof' from sources that don't start off with saying stuff like 'Islam's Allah is a different God to the one that pre Islam Arabs used to worship'. Since that is, you know, completely wrong and tends to cast doubt on every other 'fact' that the site then goes on to state.
Also if you could avoid stating nonsense such as 'the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament' then that would also be great, since, again, that is wrong.
Just to give you a hint to start you off, the three religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have exactly the same Abrahamic God - 'Allah' is simply Arabic for 'God'. Same one they are talking about. And both Judaism and Islam recognise Jesus as well as Christianity. The only difference is that Judaism and Islam recognise Jesus as a prophet not the 'Son of God'.
Whatever type of Jesus you are talking about of course, the reality is that he was Jewish and therefore, the Old Testament is exactly the religious teaching he would have adhered to, with all those lovely quotes about stoning people and women and homosexuality that you seem to believe only apply in Islam. You can probably get some lovely quotes if you wish from the Westboro Church loons, who are the Christian equivalent of the 'Islamic scholars' that you love to quote so often. Meanwhile, the rest of the sane world writes them off as crazy morons in much the way that the vast majority of Moslems writes off their loons as crazy morons.
Still, at least we have the variety of you using a different name to post these days, although the signature mix of falsehood, hatred and selective googling of nonsense from other hate filled morons remains intact as does your constant claim to have 'read' both the Koran and the Bible (which seems a bit odd given that you constantly resort to google and also are unable to recognise when the results of your googling throw up stuff that's plain wrong but there we go - perhaps you're just a bit thick)?
As you were. |
Re: That condescending last paragraph
Some books from my living room shelf I have read;
- Jihad: The trail of political Islam (Gilles Kepel)
- The Clash of fundamentalisms (Tariq Ali)
- The War for Muslim minds (Gilles Kepel)
- 2 translations of the Koran
- A Biography of Muhammad
- A Bible
- A line in the sand (James Barr)
- International Relations since 1945 (Young and Kent)
- Peacemakers (Margaret MacMillan)
- Globalization and it's discontents (Joseph Stiglitz)
- No Logo (Naomi Klein)
- Stalin: The court of the red tsar (Simon Sebag Montefiore)
- Vietnam (Stanley Karnow)
- Legacy of Ashes: The history of the CIA
- Ghost Wars: The secret history of the CIA; Afghanistan, Bin Laden, the Soviet Invasion)
etc.
Note that I posted content that makes a consistent argument. Whereas you stoop to insults and fantasy....by the way, I've only ever posted on here under this name. Who do you suppose is my alter ego?
Put up or shut up. | |
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 23:26 - Mar 26 with 1730 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 00:42 - Mar 26 by Humpty |
I'm very well informed. I live and breath this shit every day of my life. Very devout me.
Anyway, you know you say we don't have to follow the OT anymore? It's been superceded and everything?
Where in the bible does it say that? Or does it just suit Christians to say that? |
Virtually EVERY epistle of Paul or the other letter writers. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 00:00 - Mar 27 with 1710 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 21:43 - Mar 26 by Kerouac |
Re: That condescending last paragraph
Some books from my living room shelf I have read;
- Jihad: The trail of political Islam (Gilles Kepel)
- The Clash of fundamentalisms (Tariq Ali)
- The War for Muslim minds (Gilles Kepel)
- 2 translations of the Koran
- A Biography of Muhammad
- A Bible
- A line in the sand (James Barr)
- International Relations since 1945 (Young and Kent)
- Peacemakers (Margaret MacMillan)
- Globalization and it's discontents (Joseph Stiglitz)
- No Logo (Naomi Klein)
- Stalin: The court of the red tsar (Simon Sebag Montefiore)
- Vietnam (Stanley Karnow)
- Legacy of Ashes: The history of the CIA
- Ghost Wars: The secret history of the CIA; Afghanistan, Bin Laden, the Soviet Invasion)
etc.
Note that I posted content that makes a consistent argument. Whereas you stoop to insults and fantasy....by the way, I've only ever posted on here under this name. Who do you suppose is my alter ego?
Put up or shut up. |
And yet you didn't recognise that the first thing that site you quoted from said was complete fabrication. Or possibly worse, you did know that it was fabrication and still decided to quote from it as it suited your argument and you assumed that no one would notice.
I'm not entirely certain what books like 'No Logo' have to do with Islam or Christianity by the way, interesting though Klein is on the rise of companies such as Nike. |  | | |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 00:27 - Mar 27 with 1695 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 13:16 - Mar 26 by londonlisa2001 |
If you are, then could you possibly take your 'proof' from sources that don't start off with saying stuff like 'Islam's Allah is a different God to the one that pre Islam Arabs used to worship'. Since that is, you know, completely wrong and tends to cast doubt on every other 'fact' that the site then goes on to state.
Also if you could avoid stating nonsense such as 'the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament' then that would also be great, since, again, that is wrong.
Just to give you a hint to start you off, the three religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have exactly the same Abrahamic God - 'Allah' is simply Arabic for 'God'. Same one they are talking about. And both Judaism and Islam recognise Jesus as well as Christianity. The only difference is that Judaism and Islam recognise Jesus as a prophet not the 'Son of God'.
Whatever type of Jesus you are talking about of course, the reality is that he was Jewish and therefore, the Old Testament is exactly the religious teaching he would have adhered to, with all those lovely quotes about stoning people and women and homosexuality that you seem to believe only apply in Islam. You can probably get some lovely quotes if you wish from the Westboro Church loons, who are the Christian equivalent of the 'Islamic scholars' that you love to quote so often. Meanwhile, the rest of the sane world writes them off as crazy morons in much the way that the vast majority of Moslems writes off their loons as crazy morons.
Still, at least we have the variety of you using a different name to post these days, although the signature mix of falsehood, hatred and selective googling of nonsense from other hate filled morons remains intact as does your constant claim to have 'read' both the Koran and the Bible (which seems a bit odd given that you constantly resort to google and also are unable to recognise when the results of your googling throw up stuff that's plain wrong but there we go - perhaps you're just a bit thick)?
As you were. |
The new testament does supersede the old though. Christ in his words came in fulfillment of the law and the prophets. The epistle writers confirm this and being the first preachers with James, Jude Peter and John being close to Jesus this is their interpretation of what he meant.
Christ opened "the door" (though the church via the new Testament), the route to salvation for all non Jews . They had already received their promise from God via Abraham, Moses and the other OT prophets. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 00:30 - Mar 27 with 1688 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 23:26 - Mar 26 by Brynmill_Jack |
Virtually EVERY epistle of Paul or the other letter writers. |
'Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished'.
Matthew 5 - commonly known as the Sermon on the Mount.
You are right in that there is a lot of talk about which laws of the Old Testament should remain in place. However, it is simply convenience that causes some Christians to assume it to be superseded. At most, the New Testament doesn't seek to replace but to explain. After all, if Christians genuinely should ignore the Old Testament, they don't half make a fuss about homosexuality. | | | |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 00:44 - Mar 27 with 1683 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 00:27 - Mar 27 by Brynmill_Jack |
The new testament does supersede the old though. Christ in his words came in fulfillment of the law and the prophets. The epistle writers confirm this and being the first preachers with James, Jude Peter and John being close to Jesus this is their interpretation of what he meant.
Christ opened "the door" (though the church via the new Testament), the route to salvation for all non Jews . They had already received their promise from God via Abraham, Moses and the other OT prophets. |
I've just made a post on this Brynnie so won't repeat that bit.
Few Christian scholars believe it to be superseded but more explained, clarified or added to. Fundamentalists don't believe it to be superseded at all (which is sort of the point as we're only on here talking about fundamentalists on both sides of the Christian / Islam divide).
As I said before, most followers of all faiths pick and choose. I choose to believe none of it, other than possibly the existence of a 'God' of some sort - not the sort in the religious books however. The problem I have is the assumption that Christians are capable of picking and choosing, and yet there are some that assume that Moslems are not. Doesn't ring true with my personal experience.
Additionally, I have a problem with people describing the IS scumbags as deeply religious when they are not. They use religion as a weapon and a control - a way of trying to encourage the idiots that they need to become fodder. The two brothers that were behind Paris owned a bar and yet they are described as 'real Moslems' when even mildly religious Moslems tend not to drink and certainly would not entertain owning a bar.
I hate the credibility that these people are given with talk of religious wars. They are after money, land, power. Same as everyone else has been, and giving it any credibility of religion is an affront to all religion. [Post edited 27 Mar 2016 0:49]
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 02:26 - Mar 27 with 1665 views | Jack_Meoff |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 21:43 - Mar 26 by Kerouac |
Re: That condescending last paragraph
Some books from my living room shelf I have read;
- Jihad: The trail of political Islam (Gilles Kepel)
- The Clash of fundamentalisms (Tariq Ali)
- The War for Muslim minds (Gilles Kepel)
- 2 translations of the Koran
- A Biography of Muhammad
- A Bible
- A line in the sand (James Barr)
- International Relations since 1945 (Young and Kent)
- Peacemakers (Margaret MacMillan)
- Globalization and it's discontents (Joseph Stiglitz)
- No Logo (Naomi Klein)
- Stalin: The court of the red tsar (Simon Sebag Montefiore)
- Vietnam (Stanley Karnow)
- Legacy of Ashes: The history of the CIA
- Ghost Wars: The secret history of the CIA; Afghanistan, Bin Laden, the Soviet Invasion)
etc.
Note that I posted content that makes a consistent argument. Whereas you stoop to insults and fantasy....by the way, I've only ever posted on here under this name. Who do you suppose is my alter ego?
Put up or shut up. |
What does the latter part of your book list have to do with your constant, non stop copy and paste tirade against muslims, along with the occasional pro Israel outing?
I read 'No Logo' decades ago, I'm failing to see what part of your narrative it backs up. [Post edited 27 Mar 2016 2:29]
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| If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever. |
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 02:58 - Mar 27 with 1650 views | Humpty |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 21:43 - Mar 26 by Kerouac |
Re: That condescending last paragraph
Some books from my living room shelf I have read;
- Jihad: The trail of political Islam (Gilles Kepel)
- The Clash of fundamentalisms (Tariq Ali)
- The War for Muslim minds (Gilles Kepel)
- 2 translations of the Koran
- A Biography of Muhammad
- A Bible
- A line in the sand (James Barr)
- International Relations since 1945 (Young and Kent)
- Peacemakers (Margaret MacMillan)
- Globalization and it's discontents (Joseph Stiglitz)
- No Logo (Naomi Klein)
- Stalin: The court of the red tsar (Simon Sebag Montefiore)
- Vietnam (Stanley Karnow)
- Legacy of Ashes: The history of the CIA
- Ghost Wars: The secret history of the CIA; Afghanistan, Bin Laden, the Soviet Invasion)
etc.
Note that I posted content that makes a consistent argument. Whereas you stoop to insults and fantasy....by the way, I've only ever posted on here under this name. Who do you suppose is my alter ego?
Put up or shut up. |
That's a very impressive reading list. You are obviously very clever.
Have you ever read My Pet Goat by Siegfried Engelmann and Elaine C. Bruner? |  | | |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 03:25 - Mar 27 with 1642 views | Humpty |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 12:32 - Mar 26 by Kerouac |
To those who wish to apologise for this disgusting ideology...
I'll be here daily posting the evidence which proves that all of this evil comes from the religion itself and permeates every society where it has been allowed to flourish.
Some will always ignore the evidence but there will always be some who will eventually have their head pulled out of their arses and finally see Islam for what it is. |
God says it's OK to invade other regions and murder every living person in that region apart from female virgins, who he thinks should be taken as sex slaves. That's in the Bible. That's as disgusting as anything in the Koran.
Your view that those teachings have been superceded by the coming of Christ is just that. Your view. Millions of Christians believe the Bible to be the inerrant word of God. ie true as God dictated it to the people who wrote it. Millions of Christians use the Old Testament as a basis for discriminating against homosexuals. They may say, as you do, that the OT should be ignored as it is no longer relevant. They have absolutely no problem with it when it backs up whatever their particular prejudice is. Like gay people.
F*ck off you stupid bigot tw*t.
BTW do you think children who laugh at bald priests should be eaten by bears? Bears that got sent by God to eat them?
Because if you buy a bible tomorrow, that's what the bible says.
Bonkers shit written a very long time ago. Just like the Koran. [Post edited 27 Mar 2016 3:38]
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 08:28 - Mar 27 with 1598 views | Gravy |
"BTW do you think children who laugh at bald priests should be eaten by bears? Bears that got sent by God to eat them? "
That's from The Gospel of Goldilocks isn't it? The Parable of the Priest's Porridge in the Book of Nonce?
Good spot that man.... |  | | |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 13:46 - Mar 27 with 1544 views | Humpty |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 08:28 - Mar 27 by Gravy |
"BTW do you think children who laugh at bald priests should be eaten by bears? Bears that got sent by God to eat them? "
That's from The Gospel of Goldilocks isn't it? The Parable of the Priest's Porridge in the Book of Nonce?
Good spot that man.... |
Unfortunately not. It is from the bible.
2 Kings 2:23
Here's a Christian justifying the murder of 42 children via the bear method.
https://carm.org/why-did-god-kill-42-lads-merely-saying-elisha-was-bald
Never mind. At least they're not as bad as the Muslims eh? [Post edited 27 Mar 2016 13:57]
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 19:50 - Mar 27 with 1501 views | Ebo |
Here's an extract from Hadith no. 010 by Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first Caliph: "...Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place...and do not be cowardly."
Terrorism has no religion. |  |
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 20:03 - Mar 27 with 1491 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 19:50 - Mar 27 by Ebo |
Here's an extract from Hadith no. 010 by Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first Caliph: "...Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place...and do not be cowardly."
Terrorism has no religion. |
Thank f*ck the fruit bearing trees are protected. I was concerned about those. |  |
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 08:02 - Mar 28 with 1437 views | Kerouac |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 02:58 - Mar 27 by Humpty |
That's a very impressive reading list. You are obviously very clever.
Have you ever read My Pet Goat by Siegfried Engelmann and Elaine C. Bruner? |
How is your search for a Jesus quote equivalent to the evil coming from Mohammed's mouth coming along?
...do you do debate, evidence, consistent, rational argument or is it just the childish "aren't I clever" comments from you.
Get back to me with the evidence to back up your assertion won't you....or you could have the good grace to concede the point  | |
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 08:45 - Mar 28 with 1421 views | AnotherJohn |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 00:44 - Mar 27 by londonlisa2001 |
I've just made a post on this Brynnie so won't repeat that bit.
Few Christian scholars believe it to be superseded but more explained, clarified or added to. Fundamentalists don't believe it to be superseded at all (which is sort of the point as we're only on here talking about fundamentalists on both sides of the Christian / Islam divide).
As I said before, most followers of all faiths pick and choose. I choose to believe none of it, other than possibly the existence of a 'God' of some sort - not the sort in the religious books however. The problem I have is the assumption that Christians are capable of picking and choosing, and yet there are some that assume that Moslems are not. Doesn't ring true with my personal experience.
Additionally, I have a problem with people describing the IS scumbags as deeply religious when they are not. They use religion as a weapon and a control - a way of trying to encourage the idiots that they need to become fodder. The two brothers that were behind Paris owned a bar and yet they are described as 'real Moslems' when even mildly religious Moslems tend not to drink and certainly would not entertain owning a bar.
I hate the credibility that these people are given with talk of religious wars. They are after money, land, power. Same as everyone else has been, and giving it any credibility of religion is an affront to all religion. [Post edited 27 Mar 2016 0:49]
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Lots here that I disagree with, although it would take too long (and be too tedious) to go over it point by point.
I think the big question though is: what happened to the prospect of an Islamic reformation? Why did Kemalism and the push for a moderate Islam run out of steam? Why is the secular Turkish state becoming more religious and conservative? Why is there there no equivalent in Islam to 'render unto Caesar...'? Proposing a sharp separation between religion and the state still provokes charges of apostasy in most ME countries.
It is not uncommon for the authorities to re-brand radical groups driven by religion or ideology as criminal . But criminality usually involves a rational pursuit of self interest (mental illness for example is a defence against criminality). It doesn't involve killing unbelievers in (misguided) compliance with a sacred text, or martyrdom in the belief that one will enter Paradise and enjoy one's 72 virgins. [Post edited 28 Mar 2016 9:02]
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 09:00 - Mar 28 with 1413 views | Dr_Winston |
Islam as a religion was founded about 600 years after Christianity. That puts it smack bang at the start of its Spanish Inquisition phase. Christians were all for slaughtering infidels and burning heretics at that point too.
Eventually it'll mature and have its reformation, but it'll be a while yet. Unfortunately for the rest of the World they have better weaponry than Christianity did during its angry teenage years. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 09:36 - Mar 28 with 1390 views | Kerouac |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 00:44 - Mar 27 by londonlisa2001 |
I've just made a post on this Brynnie so won't repeat that bit.
Few Christian scholars believe it to be superseded but more explained, clarified or added to. Fundamentalists don't believe it to be superseded at all (which is sort of the point as we're only on here talking about fundamentalists on both sides of the Christian / Islam divide).
As I said before, most followers of all faiths pick and choose. I choose to believe none of it, other than possibly the existence of a 'God' of some sort - not the sort in the religious books however. The problem I have is the assumption that Christians are capable of picking and choosing, and yet there are some that assume that Moslems are not. Doesn't ring true with my personal experience.
Additionally, I have a problem with people describing the IS scumbags as deeply religious when they are not. They use religion as a weapon and a control - a way of trying to encourage the idiots that they need to become fodder. The two brothers that were behind Paris owned a bar and yet they are described as 'real Moslems' when even mildly religious Moslems tend not to drink and certainly would not entertain owning a bar.
I hate the credibility that these people are given with talk of religious wars. They are after money, land, power. Same as everyone else has been, and giving it any credibility of religion is an affront to all religion. [Post edited 27 Mar 2016 0:49]
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Will reply to all of Lisa's 'Islam isn't the problem, it's individual nutters: Christianity is just as bad...nah, nah, nah-nah-nah!' argument in this post.
Pay attention Humpty as the points made here will destroy your arguments as well.
If you are, then could you possibly take your 'proof' from sources that don't start off with saying stuff like 'Islam's Allah is a different God to the one that pre Islam Arabs used to worship'. Since that is, you know, completely wrong and tends to cast doubt on every other 'fact' that the site then goes on to state.
- But before Islam the Arab tribes were pagans who worshiped many different Gods. Mohammed was influenced in his ideas by Judaism and was living at a time when the radically reformed version of Judaism (Christianity) was spreading. He was heavily influenced by the ideas of Judaism and Islam was in essence a monotheistic religion designed specifically for the Arabs.
I am going to copy and paste now as it is quicker and we are using the internet. I won't apologise for it :)
"The principles of Islam were developed over time and, as was the case with earlier men professing to be prophets, not everyone was willing to accept Muhammad's claim to be God's messenger. Muhammad was attacking the way of life of the more powerful families in the Quraysh tribe, and they were not happy about it. In addition to having to persevere the criticism of his views, he also suffered terribly when his wife and uncle died in the same year.
In 622, Muhammad left Mecca for an oasis then known as Yathrib. This trip became known as the hejira, the flight from persecution in Mecca. The term has also come to mean leaving a pagan community for one that adheres to the laws of Islam. In his new home, which was later renamed Medina, Muhammad became a mediator, arbitrating disputes between tribes.
Interestingly, Medina also had a sizeable Jewish community, which had probably moved there after being expelled from Palestine by the Romans. Muhammad respected the Jews, and his early teachings appeared to borrow from Jewish tradition. The Jews began to distance themselves from Muhammad, however, when he became critical of their not recognizing him as a prophet.
Once it was clear the Jews would not accept him, Muhammad began to minimize or eliminate the Jewish influence on his beliefs. For example, he shifted the direction of prayers from Jerusalem to Mecca, made Friday his special day of prayer, and renounced the Jewish dietary laws (except for the prohibition on eating pork). Originally, he said the Arabs were descendants of Abraham through his son Ishmael, but in the Koran Abraham's connection to the Jews is denied, with Muhammad asserting that Abraham is only the patriarch of Islam, not Judaism as well, because he "surrendered himself to Allah."
One of the immediate consequences of Muhammad's frustration was the expulsion of two Jewish tribes from Medina and the murder of all the members of a third Jewish tribe (except for the women and children, who were sold into slavery). But even worse for the long-term treatment of the Jews were a number of inflammatory statements about Jews that Muhammad made that appear in the Koran – which, over the years, stoked Arab/Islamic anti-Semitism.
Muhammad slowly began to build his power base both by the persuasiveness of his faith and the old-fashioned way: by marrying women from important families to gain political advantage. He came to control the oases and markets, which forced other traders and tribesmen to negotiate with him. When he finally returned to Mecca, it was at the head of an imposing army that forced the residents to capitulate."
.....and finally, have you ever heard of 'The Satanic Verses'?
"Vehement protest against Rushdie's book" began with the title itself. The title refers to a legend of the Prophet Mohammad, when a few verses were supposedly spoken by him as part of the Qur'an, and then withdrawn on the grounds that the devil had sent them to deceive Mohammad into thinking they came from God. These "Satanic Verses" are found in verses eighteen to twenty-two in suraht An-Najim of the Qur'an,[13] and by accounts from Tabari, but is seldom mentioned in the first biography of Mohammad by Ibn Ishaq. The verses also appear in other accounts of the prophet's life. They permitted prayer to three pre-Islamic Meccan goddesses: Al-lÄt, Uzza, and ManÄt–a violation of monotheism."
Also if you could avoid stating nonsense such as 'the New Testament supersedes the Old Testament' then that would also be great, since, again, that is wrong.
- No. The Jews believed a 'Messiah' would be sent from God (they are still waiting), Jesus claimed to be that messiah....the Jews rejected this notion. Therefore if you believe he was the messiah sent by God (a Christian) you believe that his word is final, as it is God's word.
Just to give you a hint to start you off, the three religions of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have exactly the same Abrahamic God - 'Allah' is simply Arabic for 'God'. Same one they are talking about. And both Judaism and Islam recognise Jesus as well as Christianity. The only difference is that Judaism and Islam recognise Jesus as a prophet not the 'Son of God'.
- As there is no evidence whatsoever of God, God is not a single entity but merely an idea. You've admitted yourself that you believe in a God, your OWN VERSION.
Your confusion comes from the fact that Christianity is a successful sect of Judaism and that Mohammed made claims for his version of God which trampled on the Jews and the Christians version....specifically in order that the narrative of his religion would supersede the Jewish and Christian religions and give him the excuse for military conquest in the region.
That is what is really sinister about Islam. It seeks to tell Jews and Christians that they are wrong, that they are heretics and that they must submit to the new religion.
Whatever type of Jesus you are talking about of course, the reality is that he was Jewish and therefore, the Old Testament is exactly the religious teaching he would have adhered to, with all those lovely quotes about stoning people and women and homosexuality that you seem to believe only apply in Islam. You can probably get some lovely quotes if you wish from the Westboro Church loons, who are the Christian equivalent of the 'Islamic scholars' that you love to quote so often. Meanwhile, the rest of the sane world writes them off as crazy morons in much the way that the vast majority of Moslems writes off their loons as crazy morons.
- Yes he was Jewish. He revolted against Judaism though. Taught a different code and as a result we have a new religion called Christianity. Ever heard of the Jesus quote "‘Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone"?
Here's the full story (COPY 'N PASTE AGAIN.....APOLOGIES TO ANY INTELLECTUALS OFFENDED)
They bring in an adulteress, and invite Jesus to pass judgment upon her: should she be stoned, as Moses taught, or not? Jesus first ignores the interruption, and writes on the ground as though he does not hear them. But after the religious leaders continue their challenge, he states that the one who is without sin is the one who should cast the first stone. The religious leaders depart, leaving Jesus and the woman in the midst of the crowd. Jesus then asks the woman if anyone has condemned her. When she answers that no one has condemned her, Jesus says that he, too, does not condemn her, and tells her to go and sin no more.
Re: Your comment on American Christian "loons"
Yes but in the country where Christianity's fundamentalists live and preach it is perfectly fine to be a homosexual isn't it?
Homosexuals can get married there can't they?
Women who commit adultery are not stoned are they?
How about young adults who reject Christianity?
If somebody steals are their hands chopped off?
How about the rights of women?
Does that society welcome people of differing faiths?
Are they allowed to build temples and live peaceful lives?
Now. How does this compare with every country where the dominant faith is Islam?
Can the fact that life in Islamic countries is dominated by the teachings of the fundamentalist nutters be put down to there simply being more nutters that reside in these countries than America or the rest of Christendom?
No. The answer lies in the religion.
When the Christians had their reformation people like Martin Luther were railing against the corruption of the Catholic Church, the unnecessary, un-Christian traditions.
Martin Luther and his ilk said ; 'We can ditch all of this shite and just follow the example of Christ'
This was the breakthrough in Europe. This is why we live in the kind of societies we do. We were freed from that 'ol time religion....and a greater emphasis was put on the teachings of Christ (among the religious minded). A man who was a good example.
The Koran is the literal word of God (if you believe in Islam), within it's pages are a whole lot of bad ideas....read it.
Mohammed was his messenger, the example....he is a fukkin awful example to humanity.
People in the West sometimes hope that Islam can go through something like the Christian reformation and become more peaceful and tolerant.
ISLAM IS GOING THROUGH A REFORMATION RIGHT NOW! It is just not to our tastes.
The Islamic terrorists are railing against the hypocrisy of their societies and are seeking to bring about a society that follows the teachings of Mohammed to the letter.
THAT'S WHY ISLAMIC SCHOLARS ARE REFUSING TO CONDEMN THEM, IF YOU BELIEVE IN ISLAM YOU BELIEVE THERE ARE TERRIBLE CONSEQUENCES IN THE AFTERLIFE FOR BLASPHEMY/APOSTASY. ISIS are following the teachings of Mohammed to the letter.
Saudi Arabia follows 99% of Mohammed's teachings but is compromised in the Islamist's view because of their alliance with the USA.
Everywhere where Islamic populations throw off the shackles of dictators and get a say at the ballot box they vote FOR MORE ISLAM.
Still, at least we have the variety of you using a different name to post these days, although the signature mix of falsehood, hatred and selective googling of nonsense from other hate filled morons remains intact as does your constant claim to have 'read' both the Koran and the Bible (which seems a bit odd given that you constantly resort to google and also are unable to recognise when the results of your googling throw up stuff that's plain wrong but there we go - perhaps you're just a bit thick)?
- You really need to front up and back up your accusations with some detail and some evidence OR APOLOGISE.
I will leave the readers to decide who is "thick" or not. | |
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| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 10:25 - Mar 28 with 1355 views | Watchman |
| Explosions at Brussels airport and a metro station on 09:00 - Mar 28 by Dr_Winston |
Islam as a religion was founded about 600 years after Christianity. That puts it smack bang at the start of its Spanish Inquisition phase. Christians were all for slaughtering infidels and burning heretics at that point too.
Eventually it'll mature and have its reformation, but it'll be a while yet. Unfortunately for the rest of the World they have better weaponry than Christianity did during its angry teenage years. |
well maybe the christians needs to stop selling them the weaponry in the first place mate :D |  |
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- Lisa 