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Michael Sheen delivered an amazing piece of oratory yesterday on the importance of the NHS. He is one of the most powerful speakers I've ever seen, I barely noticed I was stood in the mud in the driving sleet.
If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys?
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Michael Sheen on the NHS on 18:23 - Mar 4 with 1858 views
Michael Sheen on the NHS on 18:23 - Mar 4 by exiledclaseboy
So to sum up, in Bluey land, everything that's wrong with the world is the fault of Labour or "the left".
the problem is though Clasey, that both 'sides' are similarly intransigent in views of exactly what causes the problems, whereas in practice, some of the difficulties transcend party politics and are much more deep rooted.
The NHS is a good example - the parties have to sit down together and try to work out a solution to an ever increasing demand for a service from a population that grows older and expects to live longer, in a world where more things can be 'cured' or 'treated' at least, in a population where self inflicted problems caused by horrible rates of obesity and inactivity are growing ever more prevalent and where some people are simply idiotic in their abuse of the system.
Put on top of that party political stuff (free prescriptions in Wales for example - why on earth is that a good use of money - people are being prescribed ibuprofen for God's sake rather than spend 15p in Tesco for a packet when they've got a cold and why on earth should people with a good income not pay for prescriptions - it leaves less money available for those in genuine need).
The whole system (including social care and mental health provision) needs a complete overhaul to redirect the provision to where it is needed most, but it's such a political football that no one will put their hands up and say - this is not what the system was designed to do and we need to decide as a country what we expect to be provided for free and what we expect to have to pay for.
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Michael Sheen on the NHS on 18:48 - Mar 4 with 1839 views
The Nordic model is top of the tree by a distance, German Rhenish Capitalism is treading water and Anglo Saxon Capitalism has imploded.
The Nordic model has the worlds highest tax burden [near enough] yet they are towards the top or at the very top for all sorts of measures such as GDP per capita, health index's, happiness rankings, life expectancy, freedom etc etc. Every measure they kick our arses [and the Americans and everyone else].
The bottom line is they tax relatively heavily and as a result have a better standard of living, we don't tax as much and nowhere near enough in this country and as a result we don't have as good a standard of living [of course the rich are very very rich].
[Post edited 4 Mar 2015 19:12]
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Michael Sheen on the NHS on 18:40 - Mar 4 by londonlisa2001
the problem is though Clasey, that both 'sides' are similarly intransigent in views of exactly what causes the problems, whereas in practice, some of the difficulties transcend party politics and are much more deep rooted.
The NHS is a good example - the parties have to sit down together and try to work out a solution to an ever increasing demand for a service from a population that grows older and expects to live longer, in a world where more things can be 'cured' or 'treated' at least, in a population where self inflicted problems caused by horrible rates of obesity and inactivity are growing ever more prevalent and where some people are simply idiotic in their abuse of the system.
Put on top of that party political stuff (free prescriptions in Wales for example - why on earth is that a good use of money - people are being prescribed ibuprofen for God's sake rather than spend 15p in Tesco for a packet when they've got a cold and why on earth should people with a good income not pay for prescriptions - it leaves less money available for those in genuine need).
The whole system (including social care and mental health provision) needs a complete overhaul to redirect the provision to where it is needed most, but it's such a political football that no one will put their hands up and say - this is not what the system was designed to do and we need to decide as a country what we expect to be provided for free and what we expect to have to pay for.
Good post.
"I have a dream" that the NHS is no longer used as a political football and that a consensus across political parties is agreed and acted on. I know that's fanciful to say the least but I can still dream.
Would the electorate vote for a party that would fund the NHS "properly"?
Would the electorate vote for a party that was honest about putting up taxes in order to fund the NHS "properly"?
We want the penny and the bun and it's time we all grew up and accepted some truths about funding the NHS.
Planet Swans Prediction League Winner Season 2013-14. Runner up 2014_15.
Michael Sheen on the NHS on 18:49 - Mar 4 by Joe_bradshaw
Good post.
"I have a dream" that the NHS is no longer used as a political football and that a consensus across political parties is agreed and acted on. I know that's fanciful to say the least but I can still dream.
Would the electorate vote for a party that would fund the NHS "properly"?
Would the electorate vote for a party that was honest about putting up taxes in order to fund the NHS "properly"?
We want the penny and the bun and it's time we all grew up and accepted some truths about funding the NHS.
Joe if you try and answer your questions you might come up with answers you might not like or find surprising, this is where an England/Wales thing comes into play !!!, Wales/Scotland being prepared to pay an extra penny in the pound more in tax if it went straight to the NHS or even an extra 3p or 5p in the pound even ? is one thing.
But the English Joe, home of uber capitalism would they ???
They vote different to us [Thatcher being a point in case], they are culturally different, they seem to accept survival of the fittest and dog eat dog and we in wales seem more socialist culturally and caring sharing that is what some observe anyway.
Questions are being asked in certain circles Joe, can any Socialist think that there is a future in the Union and us being ruled from Westminster ?
Its a numbers game and there is more of them than us, so the only way we can get a fairer society is not through being ruled from London, I don't like it but that is the way it is, same problems the world over, incomers come in and have different ideas to the locals and those incomers might well be the majority and there we have it, bingo.
[Post edited 4 Mar 2015 19:10]
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Michael Sheen on the NHS on 18:40 - Mar 4 by londonlisa2001
the problem is though Clasey, that both 'sides' are similarly intransigent in views of exactly what causes the problems, whereas in practice, some of the difficulties transcend party politics and are much more deep rooted.
The NHS is a good example - the parties have to sit down together and try to work out a solution to an ever increasing demand for a service from a population that grows older and expects to live longer, in a world where more things can be 'cured' or 'treated' at least, in a population where self inflicted problems caused by horrible rates of obesity and inactivity are growing ever more prevalent and where some people are simply idiotic in their abuse of the system.
Put on top of that party political stuff (free prescriptions in Wales for example - why on earth is that a good use of money - people are being prescribed ibuprofen for God's sake rather than spend 15p in Tesco for a packet when they've got a cold and why on earth should people with a good income not pay for prescriptions - it leaves less money available for those in genuine need).
The whole system (including social care and mental health provision) needs a complete overhaul to redirect the provision to where it is needed most, but it's such a political football that no one will put their hands up and say - this is not what the system was designed to do and we need to decide as a country what we expect to be provided for free and what we expect to have to pay for.
I've not much argument with any of that but it's as far removed from Bluey's one-eyed view of the world as it's possible to get. I'm no fan of the modern Labour Party, but you won't get the kind of consensus politics you've described until as a very first step we move away from first past the post which perpetuates it. And that would be only the start.
Michael Sheen on the NHS on 19:37 - Mar 4 by exiledclaseboy
I've not much argument with any of that but it's as far removed from Bluey's one-eyed view of the world as it's possible to get. I'm no fan of the modern Labour Party, but you won't get the kind of consensus politics you've described until as a very first step we move away from first past the post which perpetuates it. And that would be only the start.
One eyed view? Oh dear... it's ironic that kind of barb tends to get thrown around without a hint of irony.
Michael Sheen on the NHS on 19:42 - Mar 4 by blueytheblue
One eyed view? Oh dear... it's ironic that kind of barb tends to get thrown around without a hint of irony.
I'm not sure that irony is on your list of attributes to be honest old son. If you can show me where I've shown slavish adherence to a political party or indeed any one particular philosophy I'd be surprised. I'll wait b
Michael Sheen on the NHS on 19:37 - Mar 4 by exiledclaseboy
I've not much argument with any of that but it's as far removed from Bluey's one-eyed view of the world as it's possible to get. I'm no fan of the modern Labour Party, but you won't get the kind of consensus politics you've described until as a very first step we move away from first past the post which perpetuates it. And that would be only the start.
well I don't disagree with the move away from first past the post.
However, and it is a big however, the thing that worries me about any sort of proportional representation is that almost by definition, the 'loony' parties would have a far bigger say than they ever deserve (UKIP for example).
Now, I'm aware that happens because too many of the population don't regard them as loony, but that's the worry for me. Enough people vote for utter nutters for them to have a real say and to hold the balance of power in any coalition. It's like the SNP having any sort of 'balance of power' position after May - terrifying as they genuinely will think that 'stuffing the people who live in England' is reasonable.
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Michael Sheen on the NHS on 22:54 - Mar 4 with 1732 views
Michael Sheen on the NHS on 22:51 - Mar 4 by londonlisa2001
well I don't disagree with the move away from first past the post.
However, and it is a big however, the thing that worries me about any sort of proportional representation is that almost by definition, the 'loony' parties would have a far bigger say than they ever deserve (UKIP for example).
Now, I'm aware that happens because too many of the population don't regard them as loony, but that's the worry for me. Enough people vote for utter nutters for them to have a real say and to hold the balance of power in any coalition. It's like the SNP having any sort of 'balance of power' position after May - terrifying as they genuinely will think that 'stuffing the people who live in England' is reasonable.
If people vote for them then how on earth can you say they get a bigger share than they deserve? That's incredibly condescending. Surely the amount of votes is the only valid method to decide who deserves what say.
Ergo, so what you're saying is we that can't have proportional representation because it reflects what the people want to vote for. Sums up everything wrong with the whole system really.
Michael Sheen on the NHS on 23:04 - Mar 4 by C_jack
If people vote for them then how on earth can you say they get a bigger share than they deserve? That's incredibly condescending. Surely the amount of votes is the only valid method to decide who deserves what say.
Ergo, so what you're saying is we that can't have proportional representation because it reflects what the people want to vote for. Sums up everything wrong with the whole system really.
Perhaps it was badly explained, but what I was trying to say is that if you have a proportional system, the balance of power will by definition reside in a 'small party'.
In other words, a non proportional degree of power will reside in a party that only a relatively small number have voted for. So it doesn't actually represent what the majority have voted for - the majority almost become irrelevant and the power always resides in whichever one of the fringe parties has done better, or can negotiate better with the 'big' guys.
I don't think that is condescending, just a statement of what my worry is with a proportional system.
However, as you say, the system in itself would seem fairer on the face of it, hence why I find it quite difficult since i don't believe that it would work in practice unless there was some adjustment, which takes us away from the 'vote of the people' once again.
Edited to say - that's why I didn't say a bigger 'share' than they deserve, I said a bigger 'say' than they deserve - I think those are two very different things.
[Post edited 4 Mar 2015 23:12]
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Michael Sheen on the NHS on 23:30 - Mar 4 with 1700 views
Michael Sheen on the NHS on 22:51 - Mar 4 by londonlisa2001
well I don't disagree with the move away from first past the post.
However, and it is a big however, the thing that worries me about any sort of proportional representation is that almost by definition, the 'loony' parties would have a far bigger say than they ever deserve (UKIP for example).
Now, I'm aware that happens because too many of the population don't regard them as loony, but that's the worry for me. Enough people vote for utter nutters for them to have a real say and to hold the balance of power in any coalition. It's like the SNP having any sort of 'balance of power' position after May - terrifying as they genuinely will think that 'stuffing the people who live in England' is reasonable.
FPTP won by a landslide.
The SNP are a middle of the road party, you are acting like a typical British Nationalist that is doing their same old trick of scaremongering .
What is best for an independent Scotland (and Wales), is not always best for Britain, their policies are tailored for their countries if they are in a UK coalition they will act in a UK sense with their own country in mind.
The classic is the 'bomb', an independent Scotland or Wales could not afford the bomb but Britain can.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Michael Sheen on the NHS on 23:30 - Mar 4 by trampie
FPTP won by a landslide.
The SNP are a middle of the road party, you are acting like a typical British Nationalist that is doing their same old trick of scaremongering .
What is best for an independent Scotland (and Wales), is not always best for Britain, their policies are tailored for their countries if they are in a UK coalition they will act in a UK sense with their own country in mind.
The classic is the 'bomb', an independent Scotland or Wales could not afford the bomb but Britain can.
The SNP have already stated that they are prepared to vote on matters that are entirely England related - the NHS in England for example.
They have absolutely no mandate to do so. It is utterly wrong if they choose to do so and is a complete disregard of any political will of the people of the UK who are voting for a UK parliament.
And by the way - there is not one single party that is so anti Wales as the SNP. They are totally disinterested - Wales may as well not exist as far as both Salmond and Sturgeon are concerned. They see the entire UK as being Scotland vs England and are more than happy to stuff Wales if it means more for Scotland. It's a shame in your 'anti Englishness' that you can't see it.
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Michael Sheen on the NHS on 07:17 - Mar 5 with 1653 views
They will vote on English matters that directly or indirectly affect Scotland, because certain policies that on the face of it that only affect England could cause people to flood over the border (in either directions) or could cause an issue for Scottish businesses etc
Im well aware of the Scots (and English), I remember two World cups - Joe Jordan at Anfield and the game at Ninian where Stein died, I also remember what Scotland and England did to the 'Home' nations championship, just when they thought Wales was set to dominate ? So no illusions from me, that is why we are better having as much say as possible over our own destiny as outsiders cant be trusted to do what is best for Wales per se at the expense of themselves (whether they be English or Scottish). You seem to be implying that it is ok for one lot of outsiders to have a say in running Wales but not another lot, how does that work ?, I see them as all the same in that they have their own angles and agenda's, but you seem to favour one lot over another which seems very odd.
Continually being banned by Planet Swans for Porthcawl and then being reinstated.
Should anyone be taking political advice from someone who voluntarily appeared in three separate Twilight movies?
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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Michael Sheen on the NHS on 08:13 - Mar 5 with 1637 views
Michael Sheen on the NHS on 22:54 - Mar 4 by londonlisa2001
that is simply not true.
The Tory party don't disagree with the NHS.
Of course they do.
Oliver Letwin infamously said that the NHS will no longer exist after 5 years of a Tory government and if they get back in that will absolutely be the case thanks to the Health & Social Care Act.
They disagree with it so much they gave a moron who believes that homeopathy should be available on the NHS the Minister for Health gig just to ensure they really f*ck it up.
This Tory government wants the market to control all public services and has used the cover of austerity to introduce it by stealth.
If man evolved from monkeys why do we still have monkeys?
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