If you read some web sites you would think that Saints are about to embark on a dramatic plunge down the leagues as the sqaud falls apart, the bookmakers don't think so though.

Some Saints fans it has to be said are drama queens, the mere hint of a headline in the media about a player about to be sold brings out a rash of supporters claiming that the club is in meltdown.

One such comment I read on the Daily Echo website saw the poster claiming that the alleged interest in Lovren from Liverpool was conclusive proof of what had been suspected all along, that the club was being stripped of its assets ahead of a sale, what had conveniently been ignored was the fact that so far Saints have pumped £20 million back from the transfer fees received so far into buying two new players, surely not the actions of someone asset stripping.

Add to that the fact if you really want to sell football club it needs to be in the Premier League, completely asset stripping would make that difficult and the sell on value of the club would plummet dramatically.

Of course we are suffering what many clubs in our position do, that is the so called big boys being interested in our players after a good season, that sadly is a symptom of success, we have to accept that and move forward, as have been saying all summer its not about what happens its about what you do next.

A good barometer of where others see you is the bookmakers, they don't often catch a cold when it comes to football betting on relegation or winning the Premiership.

Shortly after Mauricio Pochettino left I looked at Saints odds to go down, we were far from favourites for the drop, indeed 12 clubs were seen as more likely to go down.

Of course these were the early prices and there was a lot of time to go before the bookies can form a real view, but with just over three weeks to go before the big kick off it is starting to get a little more accurate.

Strangely though despite losing three players the bookies position hasn't changed much on our chances of being relegated, yes we have dropped a couple of places and are now 11th favourite for the drop, but we are seen as being more likely to be in the top half of the Premier than the bottom half and a long long way off being relegated.

Of course this is football and anything can happen, but perhaps looking at these odds brings home a dose of reality, compare the squad Saints had say two years ago for our first season back in the top flight and we are now far better prepared to tackle a Premier League season in almost every way be it in the quality of our players, the quality of the manager and the depth of the squad.

So there is really no need for supporters to have a feeling of impending doom, we are a club that has lost a few players and probably will lose one or two more, but we have the money to replace them as well as some promising youngsters that much nearer a first team spot than last season, we won't be challenging for the Champions League places but to be blunt we were never going to anyway, it takes more than a few hollow words to build a football club to that level in a short space of time.

What we can look forward to is a season where we should cement our place in the Premier League and perhaps look to win something in the domestic cups and in doing so earn a place in Europe.

Photo: Action Images

SaintinMalta added 10:35 - Jul 21 Nice upbeat piece mate, but it's hard not to see the 'Doom and Gloom'. For the line 'probably losing one or two more', read four by the end of the winter transfer window - Schneiderlein, Lovren, Rodriguez, Chambers. We are what we are, what we've always been - a feeder club, a selling club, for whatever reasons. A stepping stone for aspiring, unloyal, greedy players. Which has been made worse by losing a leader like Cortese (I know that'll receive your wrath), because they sure are leaderless now (is Kruegar still there)? And for sure we'll have 'promising youngsters' to come through - we always do, but they too will be sold off as soon as the 'Big 6' come calling. Markus Liebherr's place in Saints history is assured, but I can't help but think the massive success created by his money, and Cortese's vision, has created a 'Monster' for his daughter Katarina, who doesn't look happy in the spotlight, whilst wanting the club to be more 'self-sustaining' (always a bad phrase to hear when you dream of success like I do)! In fact, I believe that was Cortese's greatest crime - to give us supporters hope. But maybe there is a glimmer of hope, because Koeman has impressed me, professionally going about his business in very difficult circumstances. Sorry mate - rant over. Needed to get it off my chest!! C'mon Saints!!

4

mayfairsaint1 added 10:59 - Jul 21 I appreciate your positive spin Nick but can you understand why some fans are feeling a bit dejected?. If we lose Morgan and Lovren as seems likely then we'll have lost (arguably) our best 5 players. Make that 6 if JRod doesn't commit. Thats tough. I mean really tough. No doubt we'll make some good signings but to integrate them all will take time. Would our best players have left had Pochettino stayed? We'll never know but its interesting that Koeman said he was 'told' that Shaw and Lalana were going to be sold when he first spoke to Les Read. I would suggest that this is what Pochettino was 'told' too. Much as I'd love to see see Pochettino fall flat on on arse you can understand why he jumped ship. His stock was high, he was told that 2 of his best players were going to be be sold and he thought that this is good as its going to get at Southampton. Picking up on your piece Nick, I suppose that if anyone can Koeman can but its such a shame we can't pull up the draw bridge now. I just hope that the club stick out for a minimum of £25 m for Lovren, he will be a big loss . Like him or loathe him, he's absolute class. Anything less than £20 m for Morgan is unacceptable too. If clubs don't match our valuation then they should be held to their contracts. There would be no point in them sulking and not performing because they would harm their chances of moving in the next window.

7

BarnetSaint added 11:05 - Jul 21 Briliant post Malta Agree with all that. It's painful to acknowledge that we are being used merely as a stepping stone to develop players to gain experience before they depart to realise their dreams ( earn big money) elsewhere. We can argue the toss among ourselves and in the absence of any meaningful intent, ambition and statement from the board, we'll go on having this debate. The sheer number of quality players we've lost is unprecedented and shows no sign of abating. Still hoping for some decent inward bound movement.

4

Zambucco added 11:51 - Jul 21 Nick, I'm with you all the way, and all you doom and gloom merchants, there's an even better place to get angry, bout 20 miles down the road and they play in BLue. Yet speak to any of them and they still talk the same talk, it's their team and they will support them through thick and thin. Exactly the same as we do. Yet in 46 years of being a Saints fan has my moaning ever helped us to win and become an overnight success. Malta you state that we are a feeder club always have always been, so where does your hopes of success come from, surely we could never achieve it if we stay a feeder club. My view is we have become a victim of our rapid success, I never saw it coming, but reality is a harsh lesson. I love the fact that the board stay behind closed doors, they have no obligation to divulge business matters with the fans. Cortese was a dreamer playing with other people's money and got caught out, and so did thousand's of his followers. We've just completed one 5 year plan and I like what RK has said about his ambitions of where he wants the club to go, so let's look at the next 5 years. I believe that the board will back him 100% but on a realistic business footing. We will continue to develop the best youngsters we will bring them on, they will help to continue our success, we will sell them for huge profits. With our scouting team we will start plucking players from Europe who again will help us, then sell them for big profits. With this sort of wealth, the players we bring in will become bigger and bigger. we will attract the best players, yes albeit as a stepping stone, but at least we have their services for 1 or 2 seasons, then make more money. It's like a snowball. We will have permanent backroom staff that will always be there to continue the ethos the spirit of the club, to play the Southampton way, no matter who is the coach or manager. For me this is one of the most exciting times in our history, a real chance to build on these already fantastic foundations. Yes I'm a dreamer, but so was Cortese! COYR!

0

slynch added 12:04 - Jul 21 Saints have lost 3 players so far. 2 ex-league3 players have replaced by 2 better players after about 10 minutes work! The third, Shaw was an ex academy player and will soon be replaced by another. Saints have a better team now than when the season ended. If 8mill Luvren goes for 20mill Saints can buy 2 more Luvrens and still have 4 mill left to buy everyone in St Marys 31 pints of Saints Ale each! Spiderman going would be shear profit and J Rod can't walk anyway. All Saints supporters should be beaming!! 2nd by Christmas!

1

TreeHugger added 12:15 - Jul 21 sorry to go off subject but i wanted to highlight something about KD. Reading an article from fonte today, gets another mention regarding the morale within the squad. Lambert also made a reference to him in his goodbye letter and both AL and Shaw mentioned him. Prowse has also mentioned him during an interview. I think KD plays a much bigger role than we think in terms of keeping the squad upbeat and motivated. Given that he gets some stick when he appears between the sticks, i think we should be a bit more supportive when he does have to play. He has clearly taken saints to his heart and is goes above and beyond what is expected. Club captain can often mean little these days but he has done saints really proud. Moving on to the current team, we have lost some big names and you cant deny it will be tough to replace them. However, if we can continue to play good football and finish mid table, we can start to build again and hopefully RK will stick around longer than MP to see it through. if we take a moment to think how bad its been before, we are still in a great position. Quality seems to have come in, we have money to spend and have a great infrastructure to support the squad and continue the development of our youth players. We have Rodriguez, Wanyama, Cork, Fonte, Clyne, Chambers, Gaston, Boruc and the two new guys.....all of which make a solid base.

4

ThereIn76 added 12:24 - Jul 21 Fair comments all but we are only 4 weeks from the new season, Lovren and Spider are on their way out and it's all very quiet on the signings front. We will be much better off if we get the squad sorted before the big kick-off and not wait until the last day of the transfer window.
2

SaintinMalta added 12:24 - Jul 21 @Zam My 'hopes of success' are only achievable through the Cups. Qualifying for Europe through a league placing is no longer achievable (like it was in the early 80's when we regularly filled a high placing), the top 6 positions for the foreseeable future will be (in any order) Man C, Man U, Liv, Ars, Spurs, Chels, as they continue to take our best talent from us - like it or not, we 'feed' these clubs. In my first season 1965/66 Martin Chivers was my hero. The next season he was sold to Spurs for £125k - a record. Not much has changed since then, save one glorious exception - Le Tissier. I care passionately about my team, and I wistfully dream of another wonderful day like May 1st 1976 (the second best day of my life), but while the 'Big 6' keep stockpiling our best players our chances ever diminish. Cortese gave me hope (albeit false in the end), but who knows had Markus lived, we could have added 2/3 more players to the group that finished last season, and a Champions League placing was quite possible. Now I would have really loved to see that in my lifetime - wouldn't you? I don't want to get involved in a tit-for-tat's post mate - I can see you feel for Saints like I do. And I'd much rather be in the position we are now than the Sk**ts down the road - but for a while with Liebherr/Cortese/Poch I reached for the stars.

5

forest_saint added 12:41 - Jul 21 Sounds like Lovren's being allowed to leave on the cheap and if Jay Rod follows him then Liverpools valuation of him will be low too. We seem to have very little bargaining power in the transfer market whether its buying or selling and the players that have left or are engineering moves away show little or no respect for our club or supporters. I have no respect left for Lallana, Lovren, Schniederlin or Osvaldo. Come on its time for the board to put their foot down and stop these players behaving like spoilt little brats. When Cortese was onboard the vision of the club appeared to be to get us to a position where we competed and challenged the "big" clubs. That vision has long gone!

4

schatfield added 13:02 - Jul 21 love the posts by slynch and zambucco. Totally spot on!
-1

SanMarco added 13:29 - Jul 21 Forest Saint says: "When Cortese was onboard the vision of the club appeared to be to get us to a position where we competed and challenged the "big" clubs. That vision has long gone!" Yes but it was all total b*llocks. All of these players who have/are basically forcing the club to sell them would have gone if NC was still here. I am with slynch and zambucco - let's look forward. When I watched us lose 3-0 at Wolves to all but confirm our relegation/bankruptcy a few years ago I never thought things could be so good again so soon. Of course it is disappointing to lose several good players but it is a harsh reminder of the football pecking order - a reminder that NC knew he would have to face and he consequently resigned before having to do so. Let's look forward to the new era and stop creating false gods (or dons) in exile. The new board will sink or swim on who comes in in the next few weeks and I for one am confident it will be good...

-1

TorontoSaint added 13:48 - Jul 21 Last season was the first year I followed the BPL and I picked Saints at random and was treated to a beautiful ride and am now completely addicted to the sport and this team. For good or ill (mostly ill) I read all comments on this site, Daily Echo, etc, and am shocked by how everyone thinks the sky is falling. I am sick of everyone's predictions, thoughts, feelings, hunches, etc....give it a rest! It might be my rookie blinkers but can't everyone see Saints are in better shape than at the end of last season and get excited for this next one!! Stop talking about the guys that left and talk about who is now on board....so far every move a good one for the team and business. Ralph is near and dear to my Canuck heart and I can understand your frustration but he is a sports business genius and needs time. This is my first post so take it easy on me but I can tell you all as a brand brand new 35 year old fan I think our first match against Liverpool will be one of the best games in certainly my very recent memory but likely a lot of yours as well!!

5

BoondockSaint added 14:01 - Jul 21 Even if by some miracle we made Champions League, it's not the same as winning it. Not with our attendence, sponsor deals and my old hobby horse: a salary cap. Trying to move up too fast throwing money you don't have will lead to disaster, just ask Leeds. And it won't have stopped the "Big Six" from throwing big money at our players. They would just have done it sooner. If Laugherpool came in 2nd last year and now wants to pay crazy money to replace their team with a bunch of players that came in 8th-Lets take them for all they've got! Keep the faith.....

0

montecristo added 15:27 - Jul 21 Nick trust you to lose sight of the bigger picture. I think it is more than fair to assume that selling no less than five of our best players for huge money is a sure sign of cashing in. You conveniently leave out the sale of Lovren, more or less a given with Chelsea now showing interest as well, and the likelihood of Schneiderlin leaving for one of the London clubs.And it also looks as if Rodriguez will be on his way too. In other words our team, probably the best in our history has been ripped apart by this woman who has absolutely no interest in football whatsoever. I go back to my original premise, why did her father buy the club in the first place, was it to assume the mantle of mediocrity to which we have been consigned by his daughter through her disinterest? Of course not, he would t waste his time or his money. Does anybody truly believe that Saints will pump back all the cash from sales into players? Honestly? We have been systematically lied to by Les Reed and Krueger, no doubt at Liebherr s behest. I dont think I am being unfair, if you deliberately mislead the fans dont expect their support for your policies. I would love to be a fly on the wall, when the first game takes place at St Marys. Lets put it this way she s not likely to get a round of applause. On a more positive note, it may be that we still have gems in the academy, we may even survive a difficult campaign next season. But this lack of ambition is a major concern, anybody who has a good season is liable to get poached, and that ultimately is not the image you want even to ensure survival. It is this weakness that is debilitating. Look at Everton, its not as if their team is being dismantled is it? The strength of the club comes from the top, their chairman showed his mettle last summer when refusing to trade Baines and selling their bean pole for silly money.. It says it all. There is no future under Liebherr that adds up to anything. She should show some respect for her father s memory and sell the club to someone with a modicum of interest in football, and considerably more ambition than she has shown to date.

0

cheltenhamsaint added 15:39 - Jul 21 A very good thread with some intelligent posts, prompted by Nick's keenly written piece, arguing sensibly both sides of the fans view point. Well done all. But I take my hat off to TorontoSaint. Most of us have a significant connection to the city of Southampton and spurned the pull to support a glory club as lads to follow our local club. "of all the girls, in all the bars, I had to pick you.........." springs to mind. Welcome, TorontoSaint, to this largely frustrating world flecked with the occasion moment of euphoria and/or genius on the pitch. You do know that you cannot change your allegiance now and are stuck with us for life!

1

montecristo added 15:56 - Jul 21 I also need to add the following in view of Nick s comments. There are rules, guidelines so to speak when assessing the value of a large business. One of them ifs that intangible assets are not considered as part of the capital value. In terms of a football club therefore, the value of football players, which is entirely dependent upon what another club is prepared to pay, does not come into the equation when valuing a club. Therefore the club s value will be entirely dependent on whether it has premiership status, which it does at the moment. Also included in the capital value are fixed assets, the stadium training facilities and so on. Hence Miss Liebherr s willingness to invest in the training ground and subsequently a new floodlighting system as these will enhance the value of her capital asset. I do not know whether liebherr intends to retain the club, there were rumblings that she was not prepared to do so earlier in the year. Added to which her life is elsewhere, and due to the amount of time she has to devote to the club as owner leads me to believe that she would be looking to offload. The sale of the players makes perfect sense in that scenario, as she then maximizes her return, the club will still be worth the same without those players on board. That, Nick is the harsh reality of the world inhabited by the likes of Liebherr and Cortese, and to which I am no stranger ,having had such people as clients, not to mention knowledge of economic theory.

-3

BoondockSaint added 15:59 - Jul 21 Yeah, welcome TorontoSaint to the Emotional Rollercoaster you can never get off! It's more fun than being boring and winning all the time-at least that's what we tell ourselves..... If you're a Maple fan as well, you'll know how it goes-I say this as Saints supporter who also follows the NY Rangers!
0

ItchenNorth added 16:06 - Jul 21 Welcome TorontoSaint. We need Gord Dowie and The Hip back in the UK soon !
0

TorontoSaint added 17:34 - Jul 21 Thanks everyone for all well wishes...I am a Maple Leafs fan but have given up which is why I am now watching the BPL. Seems I traded one heart breaker for another....
1

aceofthebase added 19:32 - Jul 21 Montechristo you are a sad one. I could not disagree more with your analysis/rant. Saints have a strong ownership, management and even still a strong team. Changes will happen, they always do but so far we have a better manager and two better players with a promise of more to come.. Get onboard and stop moaning.
3

ChristchurchSaint added 20:06 - Jul 21 Well said Nick, slynch and Zambucco! Yes, ok we are all upset at the idea of our players going and yes we may not replace them with players who will settle in immediately. BUT, we are still in the PL, we are solvent and in a lot better position than several other PL clubs. Please give Roko a bit of slack- bringing in players to fit together is not like shopping in Tesco, hopefully we will see good players in before the season kicks off, but it will take time. AND if the board do shell out the money does this show that they are not asset stripping (MCS)? If we get to August 31st and do not have sufficient players then I will come back on this site and admit I was wrong. However in return, will the doom-mongers come on here and admit they were wrong if things don't look so bad? I don't think so!!

0

TeamCortese added 21:17 - Jul 21 TorontoSaint: as you can see there is still much debate about me despite my long-ago departure ;) I think Southampton has a bright future providing that they do the following: i) Keep Lovren and Schneiderlin. Unlike Lallana and Shaw they are core positions. Can you imagine Man Utd and Liverpool letting go of Ferdinand and Alonso in their prime? It would never have happened unless an obscene amount of money was offered. ii) Buy a new centre-back, pacy-striker, left-back (Targett needs competition) and right-winger. If we do the above then we will definitely have a top 10 finish. The board has 4-weeks till the season starts. It'll be interesting to see the eventual outcome. I suspect both Lovren and Schneiderlin will go before the transfer window.

0

REEDYREEDOREEDZ added 22:11 - Jul 21 To the likes of Zambucco, Nick, slynch, Christchurch saint: your positivity is admirable. The reality is that if we do not spend well in the coming weeks then we could be in a relegation battle next season. We've lost Lallana and Lambert who scored and created most of our goals last season. If we lose J-Rod then that's pretty much all of our goals from last season. When we lose Lovren our defence is left in tatters. He was the lynchpin. And the club have the chance to buy Caulker, who I believe will be an England regular in the future, for a cut price relegation release fee of £8.5m and they are stalling? Why? They should've been first in line like QPR. OK so we've signed Pelle and Tosic so far. While I remain hopeful about these two signings we have to remember that buying from abroad poses risks and its completely hit or miss as to whether a player does well in the Premiership or not. Also, both players have only excelled in the Dutch league where even Steve De Ridder scored 10 goals last season. As for Montecristo: WOW! Amazing. How on earth do you make that one out? THE CLUB IS NOT BEING ASSET STRIPPED!! I can't believe you think that Katharina would do that against her dead father's wishes. And I can't believe you think that the value of the squad isn't taken into consideration when buying a football club. The intangible value of players is held in the balance sheet and amortised/revalued as appropriate. At the end of the season the Saints squad was valued at £162m. Do you really think that a buyer would get all of that value for free? The fact is that when a player tells a club he wants to leave there's not a lot of productive things the club can do. All Saints have done is negotiate the highest price they can possibly get. The proof will be who we buy and how much we pay. We need to invest heavily and I'm 100% certain that the club will make 3 or 4 significant additions to the squad.

2

TorontoSaint added 22:11 - Jul 21 I agree Lovren & Schneiderlin are key but with no apology yet he is poison after saying what he said and $20m is great business. Schneiderlin must stay for me to remain positive about there not being an exodus en masse....make him captain already!!
0

sidsaint added 22:18 - Jul 21 Welcome Toronto Saint to the mad house. Lets wait until the end of the window and see how we stand. Lets not sell any more players until we have replacements committed to come in. At the moment I think Koeman is doing well with his purchases and I hope he is getting the backing he deserves and needs. What concerns me is the silence from the board and the fact that after more years than I care to remember I cannot recall any club which has had a queue of players baying to leave like we have just now. Keep the faith!

2

Blogs 31 bloggers

Burnley Polls