| QPR, Redknapp, The Future 19:03 - Dec 10 with 8325 views | Antti_Heinola |
So, another mini rant after my one about Niko the other week which caused some mild debate, where I found most people agreed with me.
I've been thinking a lot about this season and it feels very weird. There's been a lot of comment about the good strong start, the strong defence, the change in attitude, which then morphed into concerns about negative play and the basically dead atmosphere at LR each week.
And I'm worried. I'm obviously pleased with where we are, but I can't say I'm delighted. I certainly don't have that giddy feeling I had with Olly's promotion squad in 2003/4 or Warnock's excellent team of 3 years ago. This partly because I think we're so detached from the players because they're virtually all new, partly a bit of my love for the club died a bit with last season's shambles, and partly, as Clive said so eloquently in his match report from Saturday, that I'm frankly bored at most games. Pleased with results, but bored at the games. A strange feeling.
A personal opinion is that we will almost definitely win promotion. That's not arrogance, it's just that we're not far off halfway through the season and I have yet to see a single team that scares me or should scare Redknapp or the squad. But it fills me with no excitement. I have no great wish to be in the Prem and on top of that I don't really feel like it would be the great achievement it was 3 years ago, where we went from relegation candidates to champions within a year. We can talk about how Redknapp has turned the club around, but personally I think most half-decent managers given the resources he had would be performing in a similar way.
This campaign reminds me of Birmingham under McLeish in this league a few years back - dull, but better than most other teams. I was thinking today how I'll feel should we get promoted and I honestly can't imagine going crazy like I did at that Oldham game, or when we beat Shearer's Blackburn 1-0 in 1992 and I started thinking we were title contenders, or when Adel stole us a point in a 2-2 draw at Cardiff. Because at the moment I feel a bit numb at games. I would think this was just me, but the atmosphere at games tells me I'm not alone.
Of course, I'm grateful to Beard and Fernandes. I think they've turned things around and are making good decisions and are here for the long haul and I do trust them. I don't blame them too much for what happened 18 months ago with Hughes. They picked an experienced manager, trusted him, and he failed, badly. They listened to a 'football person' - what else were they supposed to do? And of course I'm pleased we're second in the league and have only lost 2 games. But... but...
As I've said before on here, winning isn't everything to me in football. I go for a release, for fun, for entertainment. I'm desperate to win, believe me, but I want to see decent football first and foremost.
I'm not a fan of Redknapp the person, but I do think he's a decent, if overrated, manager. But I am struggling to understand why he has so far failed to get more out of this squad. Bournemouth, to me, papered over the cracks. It wasn't significantly better than any other performance and not even too dissimilar to the Blackburn performance, which has been panned in most quarters.
I know we have had injuries (all clubs have injuries), but we also have, I believem by far the best squad in this division. Why has he still not found a way to make this lot play some exciting, attacking football? The midfield is still in a state of flux. He's struggling to include AJ, even though clearly he and Austin have a good understanding. Why, with all the advantages he's been given, are we still saying 'he needs time', 'they need time to gel'. No one gave Hughes that courtesy. And Warnock had the team playing attacking football in a shorter timespan. Warnock developed a system, put the players in to suit it, stuck with it. Players got injured, but other players came in and replaced them and did the job. Why is Redknapp still struggling with this?
All of this is tied up in our transfer policy, which to my mind has not significantly changed since the debacle of summer 2012. We're still signing old players. We're still mainly looking at big name players. We're still looking short term. None of these players, except Karl Henry (£1m?) are bad signings in isolation, but together they are making a storm that wqe will have to weather again next summer because of a lack of forward planning. Why are we signing Yossi? Why don't we wait a month and buy a younger player who might grow into the team and be useful were we to go up next season. Build the team like that? Again, I like Yossi and think he's a good player, but the thinking is short term.
For those that argue 'if he's the difference and we go up, who cares?' I say, firstly, we're top without him, so why do we need him? And secondly, look at the bigger picture. He's 33, and only played 40 odd games in 4 years. How is this a sensible signing? How is this different to Bosingwa? Or Park? Again, he may well be good for us for a few months, but then we'll have to replace him anyway. It's all short term and the way we're going we'll have exactly the same problems in the prem that we had last time - no continuity, no team spirit, a brand new team.
I know I sound ungrateful and boring, but this is how I feel. Are others worried too? Or is this just me? |  |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 19:29 - Dec 10 with 5562 views | CroydonCaptJack |
I am very happy but thanks for your thoughts. |  | | |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 19:37 - Dec 10 with 5531 views | MedwayR |
I can understand how you're feeling Antti, as I've said to mates several times this season I'm used to us being crap but I'm not used to us being boring, we're very settled on & off the pitch at the moment for possibly the first time in decades!!!
With the squad, management & resources available to us I expect us to go up, I'd like it to be more entertaining but at the end of the day the result is more important at the moment. I think in all honesty everyone at the club probably feels the same, get this season done & get back to the premier league and then the club can really push, this season is almost like a chore in a way but necessary in order to get back where we need to be to progress on & off the pitch. I believe good times are ahead & it could be a very interesting summer, but we need to secure promotion first. |  |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 19:45 - Dec 10 with 5506 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Great post, and I agree with practically evrything you're feeling.
I would add that we are no closer to establishing a long-term scouting system, team building in the medium or long term, a youth development programme, a discernible ethos or a discernible club playing style.
On the plus side, I believe in the owners' commitment to a new training facility and a youth academy, these are by far the best developments in the last few decades. Also the new stadium is needed though I'm holding judgement on this until I see size, design and corporate-fab ratio.
And yes, it's great to see us winning, but I fear for our long-term identity when we employ so many short-term shortcuts to what the owners deem to be success.
None of this makes me miserable, angry or sad. But just a bit...cold. |  |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 19:46 - Dec 10 with 5501 views | QPRDave |
Moan moan moan....ungrateful f*cker |  | | |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 19:46 - Dec 10 with 5498 views | Lblock |
You've not seen a team that "scares you" -- fine but I have - us!
Thats harsh and flippant and if I'm being honest Burnley impressed me immensely up there earlier this season.
I also think we've yet to see Forest, Leicester or Blackpool up close and personal plus I think Derby and others will be a different proposition on their own patch.
What our team lacks is pace and goals from centre mid.
Pace at CB will be needed -- Ned the answer there so check.
Pace wide is essential -- can Toilet and both Phillips lads step up? Not too sure there.
Pace in the middle not vital but for all the admirable qualities of the lads we have playing there none of them have that.
Pace up front will kill loads of teams as Charlie has demonstrated a couple of times this season already. What we do need is another pace man to play with him (AJ to an extent) or, just as importantly, to come on from the bench.
Goals from the middle is a worry which has already been done to death!
Barton may chip in with 6 or 7 this season but this not really his forte.
Carroll may be the answer here if playing in a more advance role and not picking back up from CB's - jury out there though.
Henry would probably pass the ball backwards if he was a yard out with an open goal in front of him so no dice there.
Niko would've been most peoples choice to bag goals in the "Adel role" but he seems to be a 60 minute man and very in and out.
Yosser I reckon will be much the same.
Tommy H binned out for "experience" and Derry has hung up his boots.
I dont think promotion is a foregone by any shadow and for me I agree that a couple of young'ish pacey players would help enthuse and allow us to kick on in January... or maybe Jermaine Defo!!! |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 19:57 - Dec 10 with 5464 views | TheBlob |
"'tis the season to be jolly
tra la la la la la la la la.....
Schteve McLaren's closed his brolly.....
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 19:59 - Dec 10 with 5463 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 19:57 - Dec 10 by TheBlob |
"'tis the season to be jolly
tra la la la la la la la la.....
Schteve McLaren's closed his brolly.....
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 20:05 - Dec 10 with 5437 views | ted_hendrix |
a) I find most of the football we produce on the pitch just slightly under entertaining.
b) Being into the second week of December and joint top of the league is fantastic, I'd say enjoy it, why not?
c) We wont be signing anymore long term players until our future is decided at the end of the season, why would we?
d) Yes its been said many times but think back to the days when the lights were switched off at the training ground.
e) I don't give a flying one about what teams we haven't played yet and how good they might be, let them worry about us.
f) I believe that we have a squad that should get promoted without the use of the play-offs, there will be hic-ups along the way of course.
g) See b). |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 20:07 - Dec 10 with 5426 views | DevonWhite |
Antti, you've eloquently summed up exactly how I feel, to an almost disconcerting degree. |  | | |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 20:37 - Dec 10 with 5335 views | HollowayRanger |
i dont think we are anything like certs for promotion we havent shown much quality at all and yes strong in defence but very light weight in attack which always means we are at risk
we have been pretty lucky with injuries
lose any of austin barton hill and dunne and id be very worried
got 4 massive games coming up could easily lose 2 or 3 of them ,id be very very happy with 7 points from them |  |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 20:59 - Dec 10 with 5277 views | Harbour |
yes awful isnt it joint top of the league lost two games unbeaten at home .... bring back hughless and the good old days like last season.....anyone remember 2 good performances last year?
still it could be some much better i expect Wigan and Reading fans are having a great time this season in comparison...
not too mention the likes of Bolton Blackburn and Birmingham who failed to get automatic promotion
If we fail to get promoted this season HR will go and then we will be in trouble as I expect TF will not stomach many seasons in the championship then we we really will have something to moan about!
expect I am in the minority as I am enjoying this season even the odd boring win/draw
U rss | | | |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 21:04 - Dec 10 with 5269 views | N12Hoop |
8 points from the next 5 games will put us in exactly the same position we were at in our promotion year at the same point. Just without the enjoyment. And with the knowledge that if we go up it isn't going to be fun looking at 0-0s as victories and just hoping not to be humiliated on a regular basis. Therein is our problem. That last time we got promoted it was exciting not knowing what awaited. This time most of us aren't looking forward to it because we know what awaits and the prospect of another complete team build is not one to relish. |  |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 21:13 - Dec 10 with 5258 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 21:04 - Dec 10 by N12Hoop |
8 points from the next 5 games will put us in exactly the same position we were at in our promotion year at the same point. Just without the enjoyment. And with the knowledge that if we go up it isn't going to be fun looking at 0-0s as victories and just hoping not to be humiliated on a regular basis. Therein is our problem. That last time we got promoted it was exciting not knowing what awaited. This time most of us aren't looking forward to it because we know what awaits and the prospect of another complete team build is not one to relish. |
That's a fair point, N12, maybe we have Premier League Fatigue! | |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 21:15 - Dec 10 with 5254 views | Rolfsson_Sweden |
If we wouldn't have gotten the players that we do, we would all probably be writing just another thread about the working rate of Jamie Mackie. How many seasons Shaun Derry has left, etc etc.
At some point, if a club wants to take a big step, they have to change what's the most important thing looking at the results, which is the squad. Of course(!) they won't love the club like its their everything from day one, that would just be a lie. Just imagine the pressure that's on there guys. Clint Hill is the captain of a team that's above favorites to win promotion. Joey Barton har grown to become a man that we all love, and who thought that just 365 days from now. Danny Simpson, Richard Dunne and Assou-Ekotto are three pure professionals, they play at a level that none of us have seen in QPR for decades. We have a loal deal for Spurs most promising player, and the year before that we transformed Andros Townsend to one of the best wingers in the game. Then there's Niko, Hoilett, Phillips, Gary O'Neal. Players that can plan in at least half the starting elevens in the Premier Leauge. Charlie Austin, i'm sure we all know everything about him and sure he's a good player.
Redknapp is basically the first manager that pretty much agrees with everything that we all at home think, not to drop too many chichés. He knows that even though Jamie Mackie and for example Anton Ferdinand seem to love that club and all that, they're just not good enough to get the club where they want to be.
What I' m trying to say is that we have without a doubt the best team in the league, and I'm sure that our players know that as well. They see this season as a warm up to where the real work begins, which is in the Premier League. Until then, we'll have to accept that we have a team that's playing with pressure on their shoulders and where every victory is just another day at work, since they are the best and they know it. Of course they love the club and are doing everything in their powers to win promotion, otherwise they would have been somewhere else. We're talking about big names in the sport, and not just some retired random thats coming to earn money - like last year, or two years ago.
I rather have a Niko Kranjcar playing good football, a Richard Dunne that clears every ball and a Charlie Austin.
We're doing extremely good so far this season, being the favorites going into every game we've been playing so far. I'm sure these guys soon, not if but when, we're scoring more goals and maybe are few point ahead of our competitors, will show some Jamie Mackie like acts.
But for now, I'm happy with the "boring" QPR, if that's what it takes to get ut up there...
Sorry for the novel, guys. | | | |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 21:29 - Dec 10 with 5214 views | pompeyhoop |
Fantastic post |  |
| Anton Ferdinand was not a very good footballer... |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 21:31 - Dec 10 with 5207 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 21:15 - Dec 10 by Rolfsson_Sweden |
If we wouldn't have gotten the players that we do, we would all probably be writing just another thread about the working rate of Jamie Mackie. How many seasons Shaun Derry has left, etc etc.
At some point, if a club wants to take a big step, they have to change what's the most important thing looking at the results, which is the squad. Of course(!) they won't love the club like its their everything from day one, that would just be a lie. Just imagine the pressure that's on there guys. Clint Hill is the captain of a team that's above favorites to win promotion. Joey Barton har grown to become a man that we all love, and who thought that just 365 days from now. Danny Simpson, Richard Dunne and Assou-Ekotto are three pure professionals, they play at a level that none of us have seen in QPR for decades. We have a loal deal for Spurs most promising player, and the year before that we transformed Andros Townsend to one of the best wingers in the game. Then there's Niko, Hoilett, Phillips, Gary O'Neal. Players that can plan in at least half the starting elevens in the Premier Leauge. Charlie Austin, i'm sure we all know everything about him and sure he's a good player.
Redknapp is basically the first manager that pretty much agrees with everything that we all at home think, not to drop too many chichés. He knows that even though Jamie Mackie and for example Anton Ferdinand seem to love that club and all that, they're just not good enough to get the club where they want to be.
What I' m trying to say is that we have without a doubt the best team in the league, and I'm sure that our players know that as well. They see this season as a warm up to where the real work begins, which is in the Premier League. Until then, we'll have to accept that we have a team that's playing with pressure on their shoulders and where every victory is just another day at work, since they are the best and they know it. Of course they love the club and are doing everything in their powers to win promotion, otherwise they would have been somewhere else. We're talking about big names in the sport, and not just some retired random thats coming to earn money - like last year, or two years ago.
I rather have a Niko Kranjcar playing good football, a Richard Dunne that clears every ball and a Charlie Austin.
We're doing extremely good so far this season, being the favorites going into every game we've been playing so far. I'm sure these guys soon, not if but when, we're scoring more goals and maybe are few point ahead of our competitors, will show some Jamie Mackie like acts.
But for now, I'm happy with the "boring" QPR, if that's what it takes to get ut up there...
Sorry for the novel, guys. |
Very good post. Very well put. Sometimes I look at it that way, too. Other times I worry. The life of a football fan! | |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 21:38 - Dec 10 with 5195 views | enfieldargh |
as was pointed out, pace in midfield is lacking.
Just watched the 1st half of Man Ure V Shaktar. (Couldnt be bothered with the 2nd half).
But MU were playing slow deliberate passes along the back, forward then back then misplaced passes where it mattered and on ocassions when they did break through they fluffed their lines(was like watching us)
Shaktar on the other hand had a spell of face paced passing which openned up the manure defence but sadly they couldnt finish.
I would love to see our passing tempo upped a gear, balls played out to the flanks quicker, then pushing upfield with an end pass into danger areas. Get defenders runnig backwards |  |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 22:49 - Dec 10 with 5006 views | daveB |
I can see where you are coming from but this was never going to feel as exciting as previous promotion years, those were unique shocks this one most were expecting it from day one and lets face it if we fail to go up heads will roll.
One thing I will say in Redknapps defence though is he started the summer with a very weak and unbalanced squad and has quite skilfully has got rid of plenty and brought together a far stronger squad than I expected. Of course the other way to go would have been go young and build for 3/4 years time but who is to say that would have worked or those players would be happy to wait 3/4 years with us as we slowly build a team.
The financial implications mean Redknapp needed to get together an experienced squad and quickly. He's also added some decent younger players like Austin, Simpson and Phillips and used the loan market pretty well.
It's all far from perfect but the turnaround in one transfer window from a squad who would have struggled to stay up imo to one who should win promotion has been every bit as impressive as what Warnock did in 2010 and although Warnocks team was more attacking (mainly due to Taarabt) I think this current squad would stand a better chance of staying up in the prem and helping the club lay the foundations for future stronger more exciting teams.
At the end of the day what do we want from QPR? Many say they don't want to go up and would rather win every week in this league (as if thats somehow guaranteed every season) , others say winning every week in this league is boring whilst losing every week in this league is also horrible. I think we're a very confused fanbase. [Post edited 10 Dec 2013 22:54]
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 09:21 - Dec 11 with 4744 views | PinnerPaul |
AH - Pretty good post from the "negative" side of things and can see where you're coming from.
There are still some, Holloway - cough, cough, - who are massively underplaying this squad's quality and over playing others - all the other teams have put in some shocking performances - far worse in IMHO than being beat by an in form team and 1 lack lustre performance from us.
I think if we had started badly and then hauled ourselves up to where we are now the excitement would have been greater.
When you win 3-2 with a lat minute goal, the crowd goes mad, win 3-2 after being 3-0 up and the response is much more muted.
We have the best squad, even the oppo managers expect us to win most games and as Robert Green said earlier we have to accept that for ALL teams a point at LR is regarded as a great result - hence how most play.
As others have said to moan and gripe at where we are now seems perverse to me. | | | |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 09:26 - Dec 11 with 4735 views | SomersetHoops |
The most interesting thing about QPR is not the play its the interface between Harry and the rest of the board. It seems Harry doesn't always get his way and when that happens he makes sure everybody knows. A 'fly on the wall' video of the discussions between Redknapp, Beard and Fernandes and discussions between Redknapp, Bond and Jordan would be far more entertaining than the football we've been watching recently. I'm seriously beginning to think that the limited effort the team are putting into providing a watchable game doesn't really match my effort to get there to watch it and am wondering unless it improves whether I can be bothered. |  |
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 09:58 - Dec 11 with 4698 views | hoof_hearted |
I see it as Harry building a squad that can form the basis of a team to survive in the premier league and then take it from there. The aim is to get promoted and to be stable for a while, not to entertain at all costs.
Newcastle are the model to follow for us. We don't have their size of club but we have bigger wallets and we're in London. We know we can clubs like that to top players because we've done it already.
There is no point getting promoted playing 100 miles an hour, up and at 'em football with players that just aren't good enough for the premier league because then you end up panic buying the leftovers in August struggling from day one, remember?
I think Harry is preparing the ground for a non-spectacular prolonged stay in the premier league. We can hope for as much success as Fulham, Stoke, Charlton had (past tense in all cases!).
So we're heading for a long, (probably) boring statistically successful period. If we're lucky. |  | | |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 10:31 - Dec 11 with 4642 views | LazyFan |
Hi,
I think people forget how we used to ship goals and had no fight. Some games only Nelson was trying and his kness were gone.
Rednapp has come in and addressed the quality problems we had in certain positions. He's changed the fullbacks, added a central defender, changed the wingers, added more mids and tried to buy two strikers but only got the one. We won't count the goalie change as we know thats political.
In doing so, we do not look like we are going to ship goals now. Teams feel lucky to come away with a point from Loftus Road. They also set themselevs up like that.
The patient was in critical condition and there was no extra money for easy quick unproven medicene. So, Harry has done his transfer magic, got Jordon and Mclaren to handle the tactics. The result is the Patient is off the operating table, out of bed and moving about freely. But has not quite got in full stride. There is still plenty of physio and retraining to be done before the killer athelete is back.
Thus this preiod is a boring time of consilidation and slow progress. Harry will change it as he likes attacking football. But the mess is very large and it will take him a long time to sort it out. This is why he needs more time than Warnock and Hughs.
The fact is, have we seen progress? YES we have. Is there still more to do? YES there is.
We going in the correct direction, but it will be slow due to the mess we found ourselevs in. If we get promoted and Wigan and Reading don't, imagine the pain they will suffer next year. I am pleased with the progress, lets see where we are after all these tough games come Xmas day. [Post edited 11 Dec 2013 10:33]
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| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 10:52 - Dec 11 with 4601 views | loftus77 |
Interesting thread this.
My problem with Rangers this season is that, despite the results, I still not convinced we are "all that", to coin a term.
For me , the crucial question is - do we possess this "second /third gear" that everyone talks about??. Bournemouth apart, I have seen no evidence of it so far. If we have a second gear, its play-offs at the very worst for us. If we haven't , its play-offs at best.
I don't think any team sets out to play 'boring football' as such - from what I've seen, plenty of teams (Donny, Brighton, Millwall, Hudd) have simpy had the quality and desire to compete with us - and we have not had the nous/quality/desire to find the second gear that's necessary to cement ourselves in the top two.
As many have said, the next 4 games will reveal so much... | | | |
| QPR, Redknapp, The Future on 11:03 - Dec 11 with 4570 views | ngbqpr |
Great thread. Read Antti's opening gambit, thinking I agree with all this...then read Ted's riposte and thought I agree with this too, ditto Rolfsson. Then as Brian Mc, daveB have said - we're all a bit confused.
For the first time in ages this season I didn't renew the ST - I can honestly say it wasn't relegation (I had an ST in League One), it was more family & financial reasons - but also partly the huge disconnect I felt last season from the club (like most of us). As Clive & others have said on here before, you very quickly get out of the habit of Sat afternoon being all about the match and I have to say I haven't really missed it. However that may be because in our current position I'm getting the best of both worlds - we're getting the results which is great, but football / entertainment wise I know I'm not missing much. I am set to see a lot more games live in the second half of the season and do have a bit of a tingle of excitement back about that.
I went to Donny, where a few of us had a debate about whether or not we really wanted to go straight back up. For me it's a resounding 'yes' - partly because I fear the meltdown if we don't, but mostly because isn't that what sport's about - progressing not treading water. |  |
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