| Shocking if true on 09:43 - Mar 5 with 1189 views | Northernr |
| Shocking if true on 09:41 - Mar 5 by TW_R |
Eh? Isn't this a conversation about ethics and whether journalists would ever write anything that wasn't true? |
Yes and he's pointing out that to tar all journalists with the hacking thing and making up quotes is daft. If a plane crashes today because of a pilot error are all airline pilots automatically incompetent? I'm a journalist and I've never hacked anybody's phone or made up a quote. There are some willfully simplistic posts on this thread. |  | |  |
| Shocking if true on 09:45 - Mar 5 with 1183 views | TW_R |
| Shocking if true on 23:01 - Mar 4 by NW5Hoop |
Sorry: your wife refused to comment before the deadline, and the report said she refused to comment? I realise you might have preferred it phrased differently, but it's not untrue, is it?
Anyway. Enough debating media ethics. I'm lucky enough to work for a paper where these things aren't an issue for me.
You Rs.
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No - my wife said she would comment. She didn't refuse at all. The fact that the journalist wanted to publish the story that night is irrelevant. For some reason you seem to believe that because a newspaper has deadlines, this, in effect, is license to print things that aren't true. Why didn't he just wait until the next day, do the interview with my wife and then publish the story. He deliberately weighted a story to sensationlise it, not to actually report on it factually. |  | | |
| Shocking if true on 09:49 - Mar 5 with 1174 views | Northernr |
| Shocking if true on 09:45 - Mar 5 by TW_R |
No - my wife said she would comment. She didn't refuse at all. The fact that the journalist wanted to publish the story that night is irrelevant. For some reason you seem to believe that because a newspaper has deadlines, this, in effect, is license to print things that aren't true. Why didn't he just wait until the next day, do the interview with my wife and then publish the story. He deliberately weighted a story to sensationlise it, not to actually report on it factually. |
Because if you wait a day the story is old news, and probably everywhere else. He should have written "were not available for comment at press time" rather than "refused to comment" but if we just sat and waited until everybody was willing to comment before publishing stories people would very quickly realise that if they don't comment then stories they don't want to be published won't be. | | | |
| Shocking if true on 09:54 - Mar 5 with 1159 views | TW_R |
| Shocking if true on 09:43 - Mar 5 by Northernr |
Yes and he's pointing out that to tar all journalists with the hacking thing and making up quotes is daft. If a plane crashes today because of a pilot error are all airline pilots automatically incompetent? I'm a journalist and I've never hacked anybody's phone or made up a quote. There are some willfully simplistic posts on this thread. |
I agree and I don't think anyone is saying that? And I don't think anyone is trying to cast aspertions on your goodself and NW5. But the argument was very much around whether a journalist would make up quotes. The fact is there are plenty of examples where stories are written without basis of fact.
I'm not sure if your last sentence is directed specifically at me, but surely it's just as simplistic to say no journalist would ever make up quotes in a story? | | | |
| Shocking if true on 10:03 - Mar 5 with 1142 views | TW_R |
| Shocking if true on 09:49 - Mar 5 by Northernr |
Because if you wait a day the story is old news, and probably everywhere else. He should have written "were not available for comment at press time" rather than "refused to comment" but if we just sat and waited until everybody was willing to comment before publishing stories people would very quickly realise that if they don't comment then stories they don't want to be published won't be. |
I could understand that if it was some front page game changer that just had to go to press, but when it's just a story to fill out a bit of page space it's being driven by deadlines set at editorial level, because the space has to be filled, not because there's a chance the story will be old news. | | | |
| Shocking if true on 10:05 - Mar 5 with 1134 views | Northernr |
| Shocking if true on 10:03 - Mar 5 by TW_R |
I could understand that if it was some front page game changer that just had to go to press, but when it's just a story to fill out a bit of page space it's being driven by deadlines set at editorial level, because the space has to be filled, not because there's a chance the story will be old news. |
Well the space does have to be filled. It's not easy to just find another 500 word piece fit for publication at the drop of a hat because somebody can't comment at that moment. Like I say, he should not have said 'refused to comment' but the idea that ten minutes before a deadline you can just turn around and say "oh actually we need something else for p32 now because they can't comment just at the moment" isn't practical. | | | |
| Shocking if true on 10:11 - Mar 5 with 1121 views | hoopstilidie |
| Shocking if true on 09:43 - Mar 5 by Northernr |
Yes and he's pointing out that to tar all journalists with the hacking thing and making up quotes is daft. If a plane crashes today because of a pilot error are all airline pilots automatically incompetent? I'm a journalist and I've never hacked anybody's phone or made up a quote. There are some willfully simplistic posts on this thread. |
There's some willfully blinkered bias on this thread and that's a fact.
Nobody is saying all journalists do it, but there are journalists on here assuring us that none do it.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Shocking if true on 10:14 - Mar 5 with 1119 views | TW_R |
| Shocking if true on 10:05 - Mar 5 by Northernr |
Well the space does have to be filled. It's not easy to just find another 500 word piece fit for publication at the drop of a hat because somebody can't comment at that moment. Like I say, he should not have said 'refused to comment' but the idea that ten minutes before a deadline you can just turn around and say "oh actually we need something else for p32 now because they can't comment just at the moment" isn't practical. |
I understand that, but it can also be used as a deliberate ploy to either get a quote out of someone by pressurising them into it, or being able to weight a story deliberately by saying someone "refused to comment" even though they were given next to no time to do so. It could've been just bad planning by said journalist, but either way the story is not accurate and is published anyway.
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| Shocking if true on 10:17 - Mar 5 with 1114 views | Northernr |
| Shocking if true on 10:14 - Mar 5 by TW_R |
I understand that, but it can also be used as a deliberate ploy to either get a quote out of someone by pressurising them into it, or being able to weight a story deliberately by saying someone "refused to comment" even though they were given next to no time to do so. It could've been just bad planning by said journalist, but either way the story is not accurate and is published anyway.
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It's almost certainly bad planning by the journalist - we're often working on five or six stories at once and end up calling people far too late for comments. It could well have been a deliberate ploy as well. It's wrong to say somebody 'refused to comment' if they simply couldn't comment when you needed them to for the reasons you say. | | | |
| Shocking if true on 10:47 - Mar 5 with 1084 views | hopphoops |
stepping back a moment, don't we all accept that most tabloid football stories apart from match reports are basically made up? |  |
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| Shocking if true on 10:49 - Mar 5 with 1081 views | daveB |
| Shocking if true on 19:13 - Mar 4 by ingeminate |
Thing is if Derry got battered he prob did it with other players and since then he now seems to have been dropped.
That's basically the story no? Some of the lads drank too much, affected their fitness against Man U, Harry says they had one night out, but he's a man who likes a lot of latitude with his definitions, mate of mine works at the MIrror and he says that for this story to be run there would have to have def been quotes directly from players in his opinion.
Or is the Derry thing unconfirmed? I have read it a few times but not really sure where it comes from?
Either way lots of conflicting but valid points raised on this thread, Esp on the perception front, if the quotes are from any of our new contingent from abroad they might simply be shocked by how much the home grown get through on a balmy day by the pool. |
I think Dery was dropped due to his performance at Swansea rather than any drinking that happened |  | | |
| Shocking if true on 11:33 - Mar 5 with 1041 views | NW5Hoop |
| Shocking if true on 10:11 - Mar 5 by hoopstilidie |
There's some willfully blinkered bias on this thread and that's a fact.
Nobody is saying all journalists do it, but there are journalists on here assuring us that none do it.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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No there aren't. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying a load of people have made their minds up about the Lipton story, and I think they are wrong to have done so. |  | | |
| Shocking if true on 11:42 - Mar 5 with 1025 views | Metallica_Hoop |
Some people will always belive what they hear, I do so myself sometimes without thinking where the news came from. It's human nature unless you're a Paxman type.
So did the Germans:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mincemeat [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Shocking if true on 11:44 - Mar 5 with 1019 views | NW5Hoop |
| Shocking if true on 10:47 - Mar 5 by hopphoops |
stepping back a moment, don't we all accept that most tabloid football stories apart from match reports are basically made up? |
Transfer speculation journalism is usually crap, yes. It's a stupid closed world where agents, clubs and writers are all in collusion, and all get something out of the transaction. Now, it's not "made up" in the sense that it's all complete fiction - someone close to a player will have said "he wants to go to Club X" - but it's understood by all that it's part of a dance, to deliver an outcome that may be completely different from the original story. Same in politics, with kite-flying exercises "Minister Y is expected to announce all cats will be neutered" - those ones are to test reaction to some harebrained scheme. If the public says no, said scheme will be rapidly disowned by said minister.
But with transfer stories, if no one read them, the papers wouldn't print them. With web stats now, we know exactly how many people read things. With revenues declining all the time, the pressure to deliver hits is greater than ever, so papers fall back on tried-and-tested reader bait. If you want to break this cycle, stop reading transfer gossip. Bet you don't, though. ;) | | | |
| Shocking if true on 11:45 - Mar 5 with 1014 views | TW_R |
| Shocking if true on 11:42 - Mar 5 by Metallica_Hoop |
Some people will always belive what they hear, I do so myself sometimes without thinking where the news came from. It's human nature unless you're a Paxman type.
So did the Germans:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mincemeat [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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The other thing they didn't know was that the operation was actually made of horse meat, not beef. We really pulled the wool over their eyes on this one! | | | |
| Shocking if true on 11:50 - Mar 5 with 989 views | Metallica_Hoop |
| Shocking if true on 11:45 - Mar 5 by TW_R |
The other thing they didn't know was that the operation was actually made of horse meat, not beef. We really pulled the wool over their eyes on this one! |
 Ersatz Beef | |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Shocking if true on 11:52 - Mar 5 with 980 views | Juzzie |
| Shocking if true on 10:47 - Mar 5 by hopphoops |
stepping back a moment, don't we all accept that most tabloid football stories apart from match reports are basically made up? |
Sadly not. There are plenty of people, millions probably, who are simply willing to believe everything they read.
I still get people telling me QPR are crazy to pay Samba £100k a week, because the papers say so, despite the club officially refuting it a number of times.
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| Shocking if true on 11:54 - Mar 5 with 974 views | NW5Hoop |
| Shocking if true on 11:52 - Mar 5 by Juzzie |
Sadly not. There are plenty of people, millions probably, who are simply willing to believe everything they read.
I still get people telling me QPR are crazy to pay Samba £100k a week, because the papers say so, despite the club officially refuting it a number of times.
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To be honest, I'd trust a football club even less than you lot trust newspapers.
Remember: "Samba is not paid £100,000 a week" could mean he is paid £99,999 a week, and the club wouldn't be lying. | | | |
| Shocking if true on 12:14 - Mar 5 with 942 views | hoopstilidie |
| Shocking if true on 11:54 - Mar 5 by NW5Hoop |
To be honest, I'd trust a football club even less than you lot trust newspapers.
Remember: "Samba is not paid £100,000 a week" could mean he is paid £99,999 a week, and the club wouldn't be lying. |
Aside from the fact even his own agent stated he took a "significant" cut from the £100K he was on to come to QPR.
You know, facts, quotes, from named people.
That sort of thing. | |
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| Shocking if true on 12:18 - Mar 5 with 937 views | NW5Hoop |
| Shocking if true on 12:14 - Mar 5 by hoopstilidie |
Aside from the fact even his own agent stated he took a "significant" cut from the £100K he was on to come to QPR.
You know, facts, quotes, from named people.
That sort of thing. |
Look, there's nothing I can say to you that will change your mind about journalists, so I'm not going to bother. I'm going to go and make up some stories instead.
Whoops. Gave the game away. | | | |
| Shocking if true on 12:21 - Mar 5 with 925 views | hoopstilidie |
| Shocking if true on 12:18 - Mar 5 by NW5Hoop |
Look, there's nothing I can say to you that will change your mind about journalists, so I'm not going to bother. I'm going to go and make up some stories instead.
Whoops. Gave the game away. |
Yeah like I said, not all, some.
With proof.
Go and flounce, doesn't change anything. | |
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| Shocking if true on 12:34 - Mar 5 with 905 views | daveB |
| Shocking if true on 11:54 - Mar 5 by NW5Hoop |
To be honest, I'd trust a football club even less than you lot trust newspapers.
Remember: "Samba is not paid £100,000 a week" could mean he is paid £99,999 a week, and the club wouldn't be lying. |
Or it could mean that he's not paid 100k a week and it's more like 80k a week, easy to claim the club is lying but the press and media as a whole have no facts to back up the claim they made on that.
I just find it odd that we've got fans who were out there and back up Redknapps story but you still won't admit the journo may have sexed the story up a bit which for me takes away from the true bits in the article.
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| Shocking if true on 12:45 - Mar 5 with 886 views | WestbourneR |
TW_R and hoopstilidie backing each other up? Well I never.
Can't stand the anti-journalist anti-media agenda that is so popular among people who've never worked in the industry. It seems to be commonly held idea that people who join 'the media' they instantly become immoral, manipulative monsters with two heads and a pact with the devil. |  |
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| Shocking if true on 13:14 - Mar 5 with 1255 views | hoopstilidie |
| Shocking if true on 12:45 - Mar 5 by WestbourneR |
TW_R and hoopstilidie backing each other up? Well I never.
Can't stand the anti-journalist anti-media agenda that is so popular among people who've never worked in the industry. It seems to be commonly held idea that people who join 'the media' they instantly become immoral, manipulative monsters with two heads and a pact with the devil. |
Oh do shut up you tart. | |
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| Shocking if true on 13:26 - Mar 5 with 1230 views | WestbourneR |
| Shocking if true on 13:14 - Mar 5 by hoopstilidie |
Oh do shut up you tart. |
Oooooooo (extra tarty) please don't 'ban' me from having an opinion with your mean words.
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