| Hilly sacked on 12:51 - Dec 30 with 1698 views | D_Alien |
| Hilly sacked on 12:29 - Dec 30 by RAFCBLUE |
Tempted to go and have a fiver on JC @ 40/1 on the next Barnsley manager market, just to watch the odds shorten and the panic instill in a Yorkshire club punching above its weight but still holding delusions of grandeur.
In fact, if three or four Rochdale fans made independent bets you'd probably see the "Sky Sports understands" stuff even though there is more chance of a Qatari billionaire buying bury than JC leaving the club in the transfer window!
We did well out of all the players you mention - and Hill understood the brief of develop and sell on - a crucial part of any managers role at this club. We've moved on as now has he. I hold him in the highest regard for what he achieved here, but we'll never have him back as manager. |
I'm not sure he did understand the brief of develop and sell on.
Is that why he was touting himself to other clubs around the time of the Glenn Murray sale - the very first high profile develop and sell on?
I've nothing but admiration and gratitude for what he achieved at Dale, but lets not kid ourselves he did it for our benefit, but rather to further his own career and land the managerial post that would enable him to buy his horses and paddock (his quote) for when he retired. Nothing wrong with that btw, but lets see things as they were!! [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Hilly sacked on 13:20 - Dec 30 with 1654 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Hilly sacked on 12:51 - Dec 30 by D_Alien |
I'm not sure he did understand the brief of develop and sell on.
Is that why he was touting himself to other clubs around the time of the Glenn Murray sale - the very first high profile develop and sell on?
I've nothing but admiration and gratitude for what he achieved at Dale, but lets not kid ourselves he did it for our benefit, but rather to further his own career and land the managerial post that would enable him to buy his horses and paddock (his quote) for when he retired. Nothing wrong with that btw, but lets see things as they were!! [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Can see that perspective, but I think his playing days had dictated to him a) what a short career football can be and b) how quickly the world can change in a short space of time.
He always saw Rochdale as the first step on a journey - in his mind to bigger things than Rochdale, so wasn't shy in pushing himself, his soundbytes or his ideas at anyone and everyone. Barnsley wasn't his first choice, if the rumours are to be believed, but offered him a change to test himself in the 2nd tier of English football as a manager.
In terms of develop and sell on, we benefitted from acquiring, using and disposing of Glenn Murray, Adam Le Fondre, Scott Wiseman, Chris O'Grady, Craig Dawson, David Flitcroft, Matthew Done and himself who we received a fee for.
Bag of the fag packet estimate is that there is £1.5-£2.5m of initial fees in there with performance sell ons which will have generated money since attributable to his stewardship. |  |
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| Hilly sacked on 14:18 - Dec 30 with 1566 views | pioneer |
| Hilly sacked on 10:43 - Dec 30 by ColDale |
well if its about how he orchestrated the move, let's give Craig Dawson the same treatment for putting in a transfer request, let's criticise Grant Holt for the his last month at the club etc.
Look its football, and unfortunately thing don't always work out in an idealistic way. We had 5 brilliant years under Hilly and to allow that final week to affect that memory seems incredulous.
It's not worked out for him at Barnsley, but whilst it brings more pressure on Coleman to succeed, the current evidence is that he is doing that, and long may that continue. |
I think their departures were markedly different - Hill did a 180 degree over a weekend. No one denied his right to move on and up but having said he wasn't going we woke up to find he was gone. |  | | |
| Hilly sacked on 15:27 - Dec 30 with 1510 views | fitzochris |
| Hilly sacked on 10:20 - Dec 30 by ColDale |
there seems to be this belief,mainly cited on this messageboard, that Keith Hill is some horrible person. It is repeatedly mentioned that he's a great manager but not a nice person.
Those players who have worked with him seem to have nothing but praise for him both as a manager and a person. It's their judgement I trust. |
Sorry, where did I say he was a horrible person? My comment was in reference to how he left us which, I know for a fact, was not in a fashion Dunphy, or us for that matter, deserved. |  |
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| Hilly sacked on 16:08 - Dec 30 with 1451 views | SuddenLad |
| Hilly sacked on 15:27 - Dec 30 by fitzochris |
Sorry, where did I say he was a horrible person? My comment was in reference to how he left us which, I know for a fact, was not in a fashion Dunphy, or us for that matter, deserved. |
Previously, he had 'engineered' himself into the Tranmere managers' job - as confirmed by Les Parry in a radio interview on TalkSport.
Hill and the Tranmere staff (including Parry) were told that Hill had been appointed, and he was due to be paraded in front of the cameras on the following Monday morning. He had a 'change of heart' over the weekend and so stayed at Spotland.
Whatever he is like as a private individual is irrelevant - it's his commitment to his paymasters that is in question.
When he was employed at Spotland it is now apparent that he was looking for a move at every opportunity. Hardly a sign of 'long-term commitment' or a basis to announce a 'seven year plan'. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Hilly sacked on 16:27 - Dec 30 with 1422 views | sweetcorn |
I personally try to remember Hilly's time at the club for on field matters, those 5 years were the finest i've had in my short dale supporting career and will quite possibly never be topped. The fact that our team on its day could beat anyone was something to be proud of and will personally feel indebted to Hill for that for the rest of my time supporting rochdale.
However that time has been and gone now. I personally wouldn't touch Hill with a barge pole now. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Leader of the little gang of immature cretins. |
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| Hilly sacked on 16:32 - Dec 30 with 1405 views | fitzochris |
| Hilly sacked on 16:08 - Dec 30 by SuddenLad |
Previously, he had 'engineered' himself into the Tranmere managers' job - as confirmed by Les Parry in a radio interview on TalkSport.
Hill and the Tranmere staff (including Parry) were told that Hill had been appointed, and he was due to be paraded in front of the cameras on the following Monday morning. He had a 'change of heart' over the weekend and so stayed at Spotland.
Whatever he is like as a private individual is irrelevant - it's his commitment to his paymasters that is in question.
When he was employed at Spotland it is now apparent that he was looking for a move at every opportunity. Hardly a sign of 'long-term commitment' or a basis to announce a 'seven year plan'. |
I agree with all that, but my initial post was intended to laud Hilly's attributes as a manager. I only inserted the 'despite what he is like as a person' clause so not to gloss over the above.
I don't want to get into the Keith Hill ate my hamster after busting open a charity box with a lolly stick stolen from a baby debate. That side of it was ridiculous. I don't think he is a horrible person, I just don't like the way he left us. It's an old wound that I really can't be bothered reopening.
Like those who say JC is hard to warm to, it's irrelevant really. As far as we're concerned, it's only about how they get the team playing on the pitch. | |
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| Hilly sacked on 17:04 - Dec 30 with 1360 views | dalenumber2 |
| Hilly sacked on 16:32 - Dec 30 by fitzochris |
I agree with all that, but my initial post was intended to laud Hilly's attributes as a manager. I only inserted the 'despite what he is like as a person' clause so not to gloss over the above.
I don't want to get into the Keith Hill ate my hamster after busting open a charity box with a lolly stick stolen from a baby debate. That side of it was ridiculous. I don't think he is a horrible person, I just don't like the way he left us. It's an old wound that I really can't be bothered reopening.
Like those who say JC is hard to warm to, it's irrelevant really. As far as we're concerned, it's only about how they get the team playing on the pitch. |
Exactly. Hill did not always endear himself to the fans and he got up a lot of noses with his rants. JC has also had his moments. However it has to be more to do with the results on the pitch as you say. |  | | |
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| Hilly sacked on 19:26 - Dec 30 with 1261 views | Birchy915 |
| Hilly sacked on 23:50 - Dec 29 by DorkingDale |
It's history FFS. Onward. |
I love stirring the pot XD |  |
| I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them. |
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| Hilly sacked on 20:08 - Dec 30 with 1212 views | KenBoon |
I thought Hilly's rants were brilliant. His taunting of Rotherham and Notts County especially.
As for manager's loyalties to clubs. What's the average length of a managers stay nowadays? 2 Years? Given the turnover of Managers, I think if you stand still there's a good chance you fall behind, because most chairmen will give you sod all loyalty if things turn to shit. |  | | |
| Hilly sacked on 20:15 - Dec 30 with 1201 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Hilly sacked on 20:08 - Dec 30 by KenBoon |
I thought Hilly's rants were brilliant. His taunting of Rotherham and Notts County especially.
As for manager's loyalties to clubs. What's the average length of a managers stay nowadays? 2 Years? Given the turnover of Managers, I think if you stand still there's a good chance you fall behind, because most chairmen will give you sod all loyalty if things turn to shit. |
http://www.leaguemanagers.com/managers/longest-current.html
With Hill being sacked at Barnsley, John Coleman is up to 48th longest serving football league manager. He took charge of us on 24th January meaning in just over 11 months, 44 other clubs have changed manager.
Frightening when you think about it. | |
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| Hilly sacked on 20:20 - Dec 30 with 1188 views | phomem |
| Hilly sacked on 20:15 - Dec 30 by RAFCBLUE |
http://www.leaguemanagers.com/managers/longest-current.html
With Hill being sacked at Barnsley, John Coleman is up to 48th longest serving football league manager. He took charge of us on 24th January meaning in just over 11 months, 44 other clubs have changed manager.
Frightening when you think about it. |
Only 24 have done 2 seasons! |  | | |
| Hilly sacked on 20:50 - Dec 30 with 1157 views | SuddenLad |
| Hilly sacked on 16:32 - Dec 30 by fitzochris |
I agree with all that, but my initial post was intended to laud Hilly's attributes as a manager. I only inserted the 'despite what he is like as a person' clause so not to gloss over the above.
I don't want to get into the Keith Hill ate my hamster after busting open a charity box with a lolly stick stolen from a baby debate. That side of it was ridiculous. I don't think he is a horrible person, I just don't like the way he left us. It's an old wound that I really can't be bothered reopening.
Like those who say JC is hard to warm to, it's irrelevant really. As far as we're concerned, it's only about how they get the team playing on the pitch. |
I have no argument with Keith Hill as a manager per se. He showed how it can be done on a tight budget with few resources and I will always remember the great days he brought to the supporters at Spotland.
His problem was, that like many players, he started to believe in his own publicity. He thought he had the attributes to succeed elsewhere AND at a higher level.
His problem was (a) timing and (b) poor choice of destination.
Another season at Spotland would probably have benefited all parties and in all likelihood he would have left us with the blessing of the majority and in the right manner, for the right reasons.
Unfortunately he chose to employ devious tactics, which was an insult to the club and supporters and some people will never forgive him for that.
As you rightly point out, despite all the smoke screens and supposition all that really matters is the result and performance at the final whistle. It doesn't matter who is manager as long as they produce the goods.
Keith Hill will no doubt be successful elsewhere, but he will have to go back down the snake before he can climb the ladders again. The ego has landed. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Hilly sacked on 21:03 - Dec 30 with 1133 views | SaxonDale |
| Hilly sacked on 20:50 - Dec 30 by SuddenLad |
I have no argument with Keith Hill as a manager per se. He showed how it can be done on a tight budget with few resources and I will always remember the great days he brought to the supporters at Spotland.
His problem was, that like many players, he started to believe in his own publicity. He thought he had the attributes to succeed elsewhere AND at a higher level.
His problem was (a) timing and (b) poor choice of destination.
Another season at Spotland would probably have benefited all parties and in all likelihood he would have left us with the blessing of the majority and in the right manner, for the right reasons.
Unfortunately he chose to employ devious tactics, which was an insult to the club and supporters and some people will never forgive him for that.
As you rightly point out, despite all the smoke screens and supposition all that really matters is the result and performance at the final whistle. It doesn't matter who is manager as long as they produce the goods.
Keith Hill will no doubt be successful elsewhere, but he will have to go back down the snake before he can climb the ladders again. The ego has landed. |
How can you be sure that another season at Spotland 'would have benefited all parties? Rochdale had just lost their best centre half and always looked likely to lose their best striker. I think Hill would have had a very tough job in replicating the success he had enjoyed in his first season in League 1 thus his stock would have fallen. |  | | |
| Hilly sacked on 21:05 - Dec 30 with 1128 views | TVOS1907 |
| Hilly sacked on 21:03 - Dec 30 by SaxonDale |
How can you be sure that another season at Spotland 'would have benefited all parties? Rochdale had just lost their best centre half and always looked likely to lose their best striker. I think Hill would have had a very tough job in replicating the success he had enjoyed in his first season in League 1 thus his stock would have fallen. |
It was strongly rumoured that Hill had already lined up Jim McNulty to replace Dawson and he subsequently joined him at Barnsley. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Hilly sacked on 21:09 - Dec 30 with 1119 views | isitme |
| Hilly sacked on 21:05 - Dec 30 by TVOS1907 |
It was strongly rumoured that Hill had already lined up Jim McNulty to replace Dawson and he subsequently joined him at Barnsley. |
Davies and Perkins were also rumoured to be signing if Hill had stayed and Daniels on a season long loan. |  | | |
| Hilly sacked on 21:14 - Dec 30 with 1107 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hilly sacked on 21:09 - Dec 30 by isitme |
Davies and Perkins were also rumoured to be signing if Hill had stayed and Daniels on a season long loan. |
Would that be Paul Daniels because he would be the only one with even half a chance of saving them from the dreaded drop. |  | | |
| Hilly sacked on 21:19 - Dec 30 with 1093 views | crazyhorse |
| Hilly sacked on 21:14 - Dec 30 by TalkingSutty |
Would that be Paul Daniels because he would be the only one with even half a chance of saving them from the dreaded drop. |
I think hes referring to Daniels Joining Dale, if Hill had stayed. |  | | |
| Hilly sacked on 21:22 - Dec 30 with 1082 views | TalkingSutty |
| Hilly sacked on 21:19 - Dec 30 by crazyhorse |
I think hes referring to Daniels Joining Dale, if Hill had stayed. |
Ha ha, thats what happens when you mix Brandy with Port...hic  | | | |
| Hilly sacked on 21:26 - Dec 30 with 1069 views | SuddenLad |
| Hilly sacked on 21:05 - Dec 30 by TVOS1907 |
It was strongly rumoured that Hill had already lined up Jim McNulty to replace Dawson and he subsequently joined him at Barnsley. |
Correct and ex-Giggle Laner Stephen Dawson (now at Oakwell) was also in the frame to join us with Luke Daniels replacing Fon (which is why he was released).
Jonah was on the point of leaving for Bradford after only being offered a 1-year deal and Dawson was the intended replacement.
It was only Eyre who kept Jonah at Spotland after being convinced by our Chairman that he was worth a 2-year deal. All other deals failed to materialise because Hillcroft went.
Had we retained the management duo (along with the back-room staff) and recruited the names mentioned, along with keeping O'Grady, we would have been well set to retain League One status.
Only an opinion of course !! We shall never know.
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| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Hilly sacked on 21:41 - Dec 30 with 1048 views | TVOS1907 |
| Hilly sacked on 21:14 - Dec 30 by TalkingSutty |
Would that be Paul Daniels because he would be the only one with even half a chance of saving them from the dreaded drop. |
More like "not a lot" of a chance! | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Hilly sacked on 21:43 - Dec 30 with 1036 views | ColDale |
| Hilly sacked on 21:26 - Dec 30 by SuddenLad |
Correct and ex-Giggle Laner Stephen Dawson (now at Oakwell) was also in the frame to join us with Luke Daniels replacing Fon (which is why he was released).
Jonah was on the point of leaving for Bradford after only being offered a 1-year deal and Dawson was the intended replacement.
It was only Eyre who kept Jonah at Spotland after being convinced by our Chairman that he was worth a 2-year deal. All other deals failed to materialise because Hillcroft went.
Had we retained the management duo (along with the back-room staff) and recruited the names mentioned, along with keeping O'Grady, we would have been well set to retain League One status.
Only an opinion of course !! We shall never know.
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they did the same one year trick with Nathan Stanton |  | | |
| Hilly sacked on 21:58 - Dec 30 with 1010 views | PDIDDY |
Dawson was not joining dale believe me, ha fkin ha |  |
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| Hilly sacked on 22:02 - Dec 30 with 994 views | TVOS1907 |
| Hilly sacked on 21:58 - Dec 30 by PDIDDY |
Dawson was not joining dale believe me, ha fkin ha |
I don't.
About anything. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Hilly sacked on 22:03 - Dec 30 with 987 views | MrsDale4life |
| Hilly sacked on 16:27 - Dec 30 by sweetcorn |
I personally try to remember Hilly's time at the club for on field matters, those 5 years were the finest i've had in my short dale supporting career and will quite possibly never be topped. The fact that our team on its day could beat anyone was something to be proud of and will personally feel indebted to Hill for that for the rest of my time supporting rochdale.
However that time has been and gone now. I personally wouldn't touch Hill with a barge pole now. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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I think that Hilly getting sacked was on the cards when he started to lose game after game to be honest and the writing was on the wall. I'm not really suprised he had been sacked from Barnsley. Having said that i think he is a good manager cos what he did at the Dale was fantastic . Personally i didn't like Keith Hill i found him a bit arrogant and ignorant at time . Flickers on the other hand i have a lot of time for . He knows how to talk to people and always had time for the fans . I hope he does well at Oakwell and think honestly make a good manager wherever he ends up whether it be Barnsley or somewhere else . As for John Coleman he is doing a good job at the Dale and will do very well. I will stand behind him all the way. If suggests to me we should bring Hilly back the answer would be No Chance . I'd rather have John Coleman [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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