| Chris Ramsey gone on 00:18 - Jan 11 with 3385 views | kensalriser |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 00:07 - Jan 11 by numptydumpty |
Not sure what QPR could do
The manager was suspended, then prosecuted and sacked
Ramsey saying racism happens in League two and lower sadly, he was trying to say to the player sometimes we cant control what other people do and say !!!!
He was trying to say that these things unfortunately do happen, he wasnt saying it was right but was saying forget about it and move on, is exactly the right way to deal with such things
Litigation after this is Woke ism gone mad. It wasnt even a QPR employee. [Post edited 11 Jan 0:08]
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Your persistent use of the term woke is getting really tired. |  |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 00:30 - Jan 11 with 3335 views | SydneyRs |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 00:18 - Jan 11 by kensalriser |
Your persistent use of the term woke is getting really tired. |
Everyone's use of that word (or wokerati) is getting really tired. Just a cut and paste get out clause for some instead of making any reasoned arguments. Also actively used by news sites to deliberately provoke the usual suspects.
Is "woke" this year's "marxist"? [Post edited 11 Jan 0:31]
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 00:39 - Jan 11 with 3313 views | SydneyRs |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 15:40 - Jan 10 by Northernr |
There'll be a new CEO shortly following Hoos moving upstairs. I think that's why it's so quiet atm, they'll speak when this guy is here and he'll be doing the speaking.
The DOF thing has gone painfully quiet, possible because they're effectively going to have this one new guy basically doing both jobs.
We've got an academy manager - Alex Carroll.
Why do we then need a technical director/head of coaching as well? This is part of the problem, too many people earning too much money we don't have and not producing results, that's the reason Ramsey has gone in the first place surely? If we don't replace him I doubt we'd notice too much. |
What if the new CEO is a woman, just to annoy Joey Barton  | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 00:39 - Jan 11 with 3316 views | Match82 |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 08:18 - Jan 10 by daveB |
Marcus Bean played 75 times for us in that era and we had quite a few who played the to cover injuries or be given a chance to make it like Stefan Bailey (22), Danny Murphy (24), Richard Pacquette (41), Dennis Oli (31) and then later Ray Jones (35). Also had Ollie burgess (14), Mark Perry (75) and the not so great Karl Ready (246) before that
None of them went on to be great players but they did come through to the first team
That's not to say the academy was working or was great, it wasn't and it isn't now but it's become a bit of a myth that no players ever come through, it's said all the time about the last 10 years but we've had loads in the first team from Furlong to Niko, Lumley to Dieng, Grego Cox to Armstrong.
We seem to spend a lot of time worrying about if they are really developed by us or not but the real key is giving young players opportunities whether they joined at 8 years old or 18. Whether they take that opportunity or not is then upto the player |
Karl Ready was over 30 years ago!
I guess my definition of "come through to the first team" is different, but I don't think it's unreasonable to define that as a first team regular for multiple seasons OR sold for a decent chunk of change after playing some first team games.
Only Marcus Bean from your list played more than a seasons worth of games in the first team and he played less than two!
Look close to home at Fulham and their list of graduates over the past decade or so.
https://www.fulhamfc.com/club/academy/academy-graduates
I actually agree with you that the last 10 years have been still under par but were light-years ahead of where we were the 10 years prior to that |  | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 10:04 - Jan 11 with 2860 views | daveB |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 00:39 - Jan 11 by Match82 |
Karl Ready was over 30 years ago!
I guess my definition of "come through to the first team" is different, but I don't think it's unreasonable to define that as a first team regular for multiple seasons OR sold for a decent chunk of change after playing some first team games.
Only Marcus Bean from your list played more than a seasons worth of games in the first team and he played less than two!
Look close to home at Fulham and their list of graduates over the past decade or so.
https://www.fulhamfc.com/club/academy/academy-graduates
I actually agree with you that the last 10 years have been still under par but were light-years ahead of where we were the 10 years prior to that |
How many of those Fulham ones played a regular for multiple seasons though? You can't have that as a condition for QPR but not for Fulham.
Bean played for us from 2002 until he left in 2006, I wasn't saying the youth set up was good back then just that it's a bit of a myth that no one every breaks through, it might only be for a season or 2 but we do bring them through and since we made the call to do that more often under les/Ramsey it's happened a lot more.
Ultimately we need to decide what we want from an academy, for me it's about giving young people an opportunity whether it's as an 8 year old or an 18 year old we'll offer good coaching, good development of your skills and if you are good enough you'll get first team football. I feel it's a tad unfair that the club is heavily criticised for not bringing anyone through when they clearly do.
The problems at QPR are far more to do with money wasted on senior players than anything we do in the academy, you could close the whole thing down to save a few quid but it wouldn't make us any better in the long term |  | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 10:18 - Jan 11 with 2785 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 19:47 - Jan 10 by Northernr |
The reason we're particularly unattractive at the moment, in my view, is because once you've agreed the fee, paid off whatever the owners want, accepted the historic fine, the training ground etc, whatever it's cost you... and you've now got the keys....
You've got the worst team in the league, and no FFP headroom to do anything about it. It wouldn't matter if you were Bill Gates, that would still be the case.
I presume if you did want to spend your money on an enormously loss making football club, for fun, or because it's in London, or whatever, you'd be doing so because you want to spend some money on the team. You can't do that here.
Next season, if we stay up, a little bit more headroom, so more attractive then, and if we don't stay up then we'd be cheaper to buy and with more headroom, so more attractive then again.
You'd e legitimately insane to buy it at this point. You'd effectively be paying £50m for a season ticket to watch the same sht we're currently watching. |
Yes, the timing point you make does make sense, I guess. However, we also don't know what the owners would be looking for on exit re writing off (or not) debt/training ground investment etc. Everybody's insane to want to own a sub-Prem football club in the current climate anyway. (And that's before we get onto fanatics, who are insane/irrational by definition, as they should be.) |  |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 10:21 - Jan 11 with 2787 views | francisbowles |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 10:04 - Jan 11 by daveB |
How many of those Fulham ones played a regular for multiple seasons though? You can't have that as a condition for QPR but not for Fulham.
Bean played for us from 2002 until he left in 2006, I wasn't saying the youth set up was good back then just that it's a bit of a myth that no one every breaks through, it might only be for a season or 2 but we do bring them through and since we made the call to do that more often under les/Ramsey it's happened a lot more.
Ultimately we need to decide what we want from an academy, for me it's about giving young people an opportunity whether it's as an 8 year old or an 18 year old we'll offer good coaching, good development of your skills and if you are good enough you'll get first team football. I feel it's a tad unfair that the club is heavily criticised for not bringing anyone through when they clearly do.
The problems at QPR are far more to do with money wasted on senior players than anything we do in the academy, you could close the whole thing down to save a few quid but it wouldn't make us any better in the long term |
I don't think it would help with FFP either as I believe the spend is exempt. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 11:15 - Jan 11 with 2675 views | LazyFan |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 00:30 - Jan 11 by SydneyRs |
Everyone's use of that word (or wokerati) is getting really tired. Just a cut and paste get out clause for some instead of making any reasoned arguments. Also actively used by news sites to deliberately provoke the usual suspects.
Is "woke" this year's "marxist"? [Post edited 11 Jan 0:31]
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Woke to me is when the crybaby, Whinging Right go all snowflake on us.
Maybe they should pull themselves up by the bootstraps, stop eating that Liz Truss inflation-busting avocados on sourdough bread toast and actually support the working class in strikes against rich bosses.
But of course, they only support the working class person when they are not striking and trying stoke em up to complain about a few people who like to wear dresses and makeup (except at Xmas when panto is okay). |  |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 11:49 - Jan 11 with 2526 views | lassel |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 10:04 - Jan 11 by daveB |
How many of those Fulham ones played a regular for multiple seasons though? You can't have that as a condition for QPR but not for Fulham.
Bean played for us from 2002 until he left in 2006, I wasn't saying the youth set up was good back then just that it's a bit of a myth that no one every breaks through, it might only be for a season or 2 but we do bring them through and since we made the call to do that more often under les/Ramsey it's happened a lot more.
Ultimately we need to decide what we want from an academy, for me it's about giving young people an opportunity whether it's as an 8 year old or an 18 year old we'll offer good coaching, good development of your skills and if you are good enough you'll get first team football. I feel it's a tad unfair that the club is heavily criticised for not bringing anyone through when they clearly do.
The problems at QPR are far more to do with money wasted on senior players than anything we do in the academy, you could close the whole thing down to save a few quid but it wouldn't make us any better in the long term |
The issue for me is that as discussed on her before, you really need at least 50 games before you can make any sort of judgment on a young player, and for several years now qpr have not been in a situation where you could afford to give young players a chance and see what they have about them.
And let’s be honest, this is not a fan base that is patient enough to give young players a chance. Our old friend Hamalainen never reached 50 appearances before being deemed the boo boy of choice, given a funny nickname and packed off to play Europa League instead. There is no way the likes of Pedder, Talla, Bala are going to be given a run of games to see if they’re good enough - albeit it’s highly likely they’re not. Even Armstrong and Kolli would likely be off on loan somewhere now if we weren’t in such a dire state.
Long gone are the days of mid table mediocrity under Warburton where he could give Chair, Dieng, Eze game time and risk them making the wrong decisions or dropping a clanger. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 12:12 - Jan 11 with 2421 views | gazza1 |
Are any of these so called game youngsters actually good enough to play up to 40 games a season for a Championship side.........I do not think so personally.
These lads need to shine in the Development/Junior Academy before they get to play 1st team matches.....we are a professional team ffs, not a team playing in Gunnerbury Park!!! | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 12:22 - Jan 11 with 2365 views | NorthantsHoop |
It's all a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy our problem is the attractiveness of QPR as a club to both developing youngsters and more experienced players. Throw into the mix the competition from other London clubs higher in the food chain and a club like ours that has failed for whole host of reasons to get a hold in the Premier League when it was there for the taking. We are probably seen as a bit of a basket case and very dysfunctional both player wise and financially to getting young players through the system and although we may now offer better training facilities to up and coming players, but how do you compete with our close and wider neighbours in London who are now well established Premier outfits awash with cash and profile. The selling point probably is if we can find youngsters without them being nicked by the premier lot is we can be a step on a higher journey as for example Sterling and Eze, but our failing is we are now slipping far behind being competitive in the Championship and the players we are recruiting don't resonate with a club looking up rather than down. Until we fashion a proper strategy of what our club needs to look like this won't I believe change. [Post edited 11 Jan 12:23]
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 12:47 - Jan 11 with 2264 views | PhilmyRs |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 11:49 - Jan 11 by lassel |
The issue for me is that as discussed on her before, you really need at least 50 games before you can make any sort of judgment on a young player, and for several years now qpr have not been in a situation where you could afford to give young players a chance and see what they have about them.
And let’s be honest, this is not a fan base that is patient enough to give young players a chance. Our old friend Hamalainen never reached 50 appearances before being deemed the boo boy of choice, given a funny nickname and packed off to play Europa League instead. There is no way the likes of Pedder, Talla, Bala are going to be given a run of games to see if they’re good enough - albeit it’s highly likely they’re not. Even Armstrong and Kolli would likely be off on loan somewhere now if we weren’t in such a dire state.
Long gone are the days of mid table mediocrity under Warburton where he could give Chair, Dieng, Eze game time and risk them making the wrong decisions or dropping a clanger. |
It’s an interesting debate. The 50 appearance point is fair, but surely, the key for us, and how we get these players the relevant experience to then assess them, is via the loan market? As you say, Armstrong would be out on loan if we weren't in such a crisis.
How well does the youngster play in regular, competitive football? Eze, Chair, further back, Jack Robinson, Seny, all proved themselves out on loan – yes Eze was an exceptional talent, but all players were clearly good enough, and came back following their loan much more suited to first team football. At the moment, and recent years, we’ve sent players out on loan and they’ve either gone to really low level teams (SDM), or been a failure and not developed as we hoped – e.g. Bettache. We do have some decent younger players now that have potential – Armstrong, Larkeche, EDB, Kohli – but definitely in the case of Armstrong, and probably Larkeche, they should be out playing first team football on loan ahead of being integrated into the first team next season if they acquit themselves well. As mentioned, we have a hostile crowd, and we’re trying to develop these players in the wrong environment.
Getting decent loans for our younger players and getting the most from the loan market for our own players, has been one of many failures in recent years which has impacted on player development. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 13:03 - Jan 11 with 2189 views | davman |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 00:07 - Jan 11 by numptydumpty |
Not sure what QPR could do
The manager was suspended, then prosecuted and sacked
Ramsey saying racism happens in League two and lower sadly, he was trying to say to the player sometimes we cant control what other people do and say !!!!
He was trying to say that these things unfortunately do happen, he wasnt saying it was right but was saying forget about it and move on, is exactly the right way to deal with such things
Litigation after this is Woke ism gone mad. It wasnt even a QPR employee. [Post edited 11 Jan 0:08]
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Totally agree. If he got racist abuse at Crawley, sue the arse off them. This "duty of care" culture is right until it is taken to extremes like this. So if he gets abuse from the terraces at Crawley, his employee can get prosecuted for not controlling each and every individual in the world?
The argument will be that we should have reacted instantly and recalled him irrespective of whatever financial penalty even without proof of his claims, but how much of a slippery slope is that?
Not exactly a safeguarding issue is it? Yep, nasty and unnecessary, but hardly a safety issue...
So, typically the club that fulfils quotas over the years and prides itself on maintaining non racist practices, is accused of this. Just so typical. |  |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 13:23 - Jan 11 with 2083 views | kensalriser |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 13:03 - Jan 11 by davman |
Totally agree. If he got racist abuse at Crawley, sue the arse off them. This "duty of care" culture is right until it is taken to extremes like this. So if he gets abuse from the terraces at Crawley, his employee can get prosecuted for not controlling each and every individual in the world?
The argument will be that we should have reacted instantly and recalled him irrespective of whatever financial penalty even without proof of his claims, but how much of a slippery slope is that?
Not exactly a safeguarding issue is it? Yep, nasty and unnecessary, but hardly a safety issue...
So, typically the club that fulfils quotas over the years and prides itself on maintaining non racist practices, is accused of this. Just so typical. |
The contention is that Ramsey was informed about the abuse (which was from the manager, not the terraces) and his reaction was that Bansal-McNulty should put up with it because that stuff happens in L2, instead of perhaps making a formal complaint to Crawley and terminating the loan. If that's true, the complaint sounds legitimate to me. | |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 13:23 - Jan 11 with 2079 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 13:03 - Jan 11 by davman |
Totally agree. If he got racist abuse at Crawley, sue the arse off them. This "duty of care" culture is right until it is taken to extremes like this. So if he gets abuse from the terraces at Crawley, his employee can get prosecuted for not controlling each and every individual in the world?
The argument will be that we should have reacted instantly and recalled him irrespective of whatever financial penalty even without proof of his claims, but how much of a slippery slope is that?
Not exactly a safeguarding issue is it? Yep, nasty and unnecessary, but hardly a safety issue...
So, typically the club that fulfils quotas over the years and prides itself on maintaining non racist practices, is accused of this. Just so typical. |
I’m not full on with the details, but I don’t think that’s what happened to be fair. |  | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 13:42 - Jan 11 with 1981 views | connell10 |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 13:23 - Jan 11 by kensalriser |
The contention is that Ramsey was informed about the abuse (which was from the manager, not the terraces) and his reaction was that Bansal-McNulty should put up with it because that stuff happens in L2, instead of perhaps making a formal complaint to Crawley and terminating the loan. If that's true, the complaint sounds legitimate to me. |
That's the world according to Bansal-McNulty, I'd like to hear Chris Ramseys side before I start to point fingers. |  |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 13:43 - Jan 11 with 1963 views | LazyFan |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 13:23 - Jan 11 by kensalriser |
The contention is that Ramsey was informed about the abuse (which was from the manager, not the terraces) and his reaction was that Bansal-McNulty should put up with it because that stuff happens in L2, instead of perhaps making a formal complaint to Crawley and terminating the loan. If that's true, the complaint sounds legitimate to me. |
Agreed.
Also, now a player can say, "why should I go out on loan, you won't support me there if it starts becoming a sh*tshow and ruining me as a person, you will just throw me to the wolves so, I won't go". And now we have players not willing to go out on loan because we won't support them as evidenced in the is case.
No, we should have supported the players, even if they are troublesome, not because of the few bad ones but because of the good players who when they need it do need the support. We need to show that we are there for players regardless of them, because we are a professional club who do things correctly even if many others, including some players do not.
We should not become a whinging right old load of snowflakes like them, we should be better than that. If this means we take a few hits then those are lessons to be learned. From what I can see Ramsey has paid for it with his job and if that is the case, then this is the correct approach but it should not have happened in the first place. | |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 13:52 - Jan 11 with 1900 views | SheffieldHoop |
I mean, I think Ramsey is correct to try and de-escalate that particular situation. I also think he's likely in a better position to judge these things than many on here.
But, the powers that be have decided, de-escalation was the wrong approach. Sad. |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 13:53 - Jan 11 with 1913 views | hubble |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 00:18 - Jan 11 by kensalriser |
Your persistent use of the term woke is getting really tired. |
"I'm offended by your persistent use of the term woke"
Peak woke!
;-) |  |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:25 - Jan 11 with 1827 views | GroveR |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 17:52 - Jan 10 by Antti_Heinola |
Come on. Let's not get too hindsighty. He was picked up by Walsall after he left Fulham. There were not queues of people trying to sign a player whose best goalscoring came while playing for Bognor. When he was released he'd just scored 5 goals in a season for Swindon. Signing from Walsall, when he'd got 18 from 55, ok. But a bit harsh to go back further than that. Playing in the Prem now, so it's skewed, and he's clearly better than Dykes, but he gets about 1 in 4 overall, Dykes is about 1 in 4.5. |
So Walsall saw something we missed - fine, that happens.
Being one of a dozen clubs in London and being outside the Premier league was never going to help even before EPPP, but it grippeth my shìt when you see kids from Harlesden, Hammersmith, Ealing and so on coming through academies like Reading or Norwich. |  | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:28 - Jan 11 with 1815 views | Northernr |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:25 - Jan 11 by GroveR |
So Walsall saw something we missed - fine, that happens.
Being one of a dozen clubs in London and being outside the Premier league was never going to help even before EPPP, but it grippeth my shìt when you see kids from Harlesden, Hammersmith, Ealing and so on coming through academies like Reading or Norwich. |
Philogene, who played against us recently for Hull and looks a real talent, was born in Hammersmith and was playing secondary school football in Uxbridge until he was 15 when he was picked up by local outfit Aston Villa. |  | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:47 - Jan 11 with 1736 views | GroveR |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:28 - Jan 11 by Northernr |
Philogene, who played against us recently for Hull and looks a real talent, was born in Hammersmith and was playing secondary school football in Uxbridge until he was 15 when he was picked up by local outfit Aston Villa. |
Might be me but I thought Philogene was playing for one of those private selective academy setups (not club-affiliated) you pay to join with the draw being premier league clubs get to look at you. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:49 - Jan 11 with 1717 views | Northernr |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:47 - Jan 11 by GroveR |
Might be me but I thought Philogene was playing for one of those private selective academy setups (not club-affiliated) you pay to join with the draw being premier league clubs get to look at you. |
Must be something because it seems bizarre a talent like that is kicking around in Uxbridge until his mid-teens then suddenly gets picked up by Villa. And very frustrating for us. | | | |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:55 - Jan 11 with 1686 views | aston_hoop |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:49 - Jan 11 by Northernr |
Must be something because it seems bizarre a talent like that is kicking around in Uxbridge until his mid-teens then suddenly gets picked up by Villa. And very frustrating for us. |
Was at Brentford until their academy folded |  |
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| Chris Ramsey gone on 15:21 - Jan 11 with 1596 views | MrSheen |
| Chris Ramsey gone on 14:49 - Jan 11 by Northernr |
Must be something because it seems bizarre a talent like that is kicking around in Uxbridge until his mid-teens then suddenly gets picked up by Villa. And very frustrating for us. |
Ademola Lookman was playing in a Sunday School league in South London until his mid-teens. His mum insisted he get his GSCEs before getting into the clutches of a professional club. Within 18 months of joining Charlton’s academy, he made his league debut. Different strokes… |  | | |
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