| CLUB STATEMENT on 16:45 - Dec 30 with 8015 views | Thacks_Rabbits |
Why don’t they employ someone to directly canvas this, surely that’s what the commercial manager should be doing. Shares, free advertising, you own something (albeit something that is worth nout really) packages all over could be utilised. Give the option of shares instead of cash on the weekly draw prize with a free voucher for the shop if taken. There are tons of things that could be done.
That reads like a begging letter and frankly it’s badly written, negative and demotivating.
And before someone says it, yes, the club or trust or anyone else is welcome to drop me a dm! |  |
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 16:48 - Dec 30 with 7988 views | Newbury_Dale |
A sales pitch of a statement without saying a single positive thing about the football club. |  | | |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 16:55 - Dec 30 with 7946 views | rkershaw |
Outside in'vest'men...??...like Messrs Michael / Nesbitt?? [Post edited 30 Dec 2022 17:01]
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 17:13 - Dec 30 with 7809 views | 442Dale |
The points about the share uptake being low are slightly baffling, what was the expectancy? It was obvious that without a specific reason to buy, which all fans knew about last year with the situation as it was, that there was little general interest.
What was wrong with making this clear at the club and Trust AGM’s that without a significant uptake it would lead to the possibility of the following occurring:
“ “It has become essential that we look for outside investment. Anybody putting in this level of investment may want to take a controlling stake in the club at some stage in the future and the board are open to exploring how to facilitate this, providing the investor guarantees the future sustainability of the club. Significant due diligence will be undertaken as part of this process, both internally, and via all relevant EFL processes.” |  |
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 17:23 - Dec 30 with 7696 views | judd |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 17:13 - Dec 30 by 442Dale |
The points about the share uptake being low are slightly baffling, what was the expectancy? It was obvious that without a specific reason to buy, which all fans knew about last year with the situation as it was, that there was little general interest.
What was wrong with making this clear at the club and Trust AGM’s that without a significant uptake it would lead to the possibility of the following occurring:
“ “It has become essential that we look for outside investment. Anybody putting in this level of investment may want to take a controlling stake in the club at some stage in the future and the board are open to exploring how to facilitate this, providing the investor guarantees the future sustainability of the club. Significant due diligence will be undertaken as part of this process, both internally, and via all relevant EFL processes.” |
The club has for many, many years, sort outside investment - more recently we had Altman & Emry.
The last board wanted to remove shareholder rights to have a say on who directors sold the club to, at the same time as failing to carry out due diligence on preferred bidders.
I think the new board are continuing this search but with a more professional approach. |  |
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 17:25 - Dec 30 with 7679 views | fourfourtwo |
Surely now is the time for the Trust to call another EGM?
We are a fan owned club and we get what appears to be a random begging letter dumped online the day before New Years Eve.
Surely the BOD had an idea of the operating losses we would be facilitating 6 months ago and it’s not just come of a surprise all of a sudden?
Or has this desperation come about as a result of the on-field situation and we’ve now fully realised we’re deep in the relegation mire? | | | |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 17:33 - Dec 30 with 7623 views | James1980 |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 17:13 - Dec 30 by 442Dale |
The points about the share uptake being low are slightly baffling, what was the expectancy? It was obvious that without a specific reason to buy, which all fans knew about last year with the situation as it was, that there was little general interest.
What was wrong with making this clear at the club and Trust AGM’s that without a significant uptake it would lead to the possibility of the following occurring:
“ “It has become essential that we look for outside investment. Anybody putting in this level of investment may want to take a controlling stake in the club at some stage in the future and the board are open to exploring how to facilitate this, providing the investor guarantees the future sustainability of the club. Significant due diligence will be undertaken as part of this process, both internally, and via all relevant EFL processes.” |
Don't know how this would apply with gambling regs but how about buy 100 shares no more no less get entered into a draw for a 10 year season ticket. | |
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 17:41 - Dec 30 with 7566 views | 442Dale |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 17:23 - Dec 30 by judd |
The club has for many, many years, sort outside investment - more recently we had Altman & Emry.
The last board wanted to remove shareholder rights to have a say on who directors sold the club to, at the same time as failing to carry out due diligence on preferred bidders.
I think the new board are continuing this search but with a more professional approach. |
Of course. It’s more around why this wasn’t made explicit that’s where we could be heading.
Did we think that a fan owned, fan led club would include being “open to exploring” somebody having a “controlling stake in the club”
Not about whether it’s the right or wrong thing, more establishing where we are and why. For example, it’s been mentioned about how at the Trust AGM they asked for ideas around what to do eg. Fundraising etc.
If we’d been told then this could be happening, the Trust could have launched a big campaign to buy more shares at that time. Again, this may not have been a route to take but surely it could have been one to discuss and see what interest there was amongst Trust members. [Post edited 30 Dec 2022 17:42]
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 17:41 - Dec 30 with 7563 views | 49thseason |
This latest statement shouldn't be seen as a negative in my opinion. Clearly there needs to be a large financial input into the club, it has always been fanciful that we could operate as a fan-owned club with a couple of thousand supporters in a very poor town. The problem with the Bottomley search was that it was done in an almost a secret fashion and without prior notice and relevant information being presented properly to fans and shareholders, there was less interest in who than in how much.
The Directors are in a difficult situation, they have undertaken to buy a considerable number of shares to avoid a costly court case and paid a premium of about 16% above the last share offer. Understandably they didn't want to dilute the value of their shares (or anyone else's) and therefore the new issue was priced at £2.32. a price that has not attracted much attention or interest, but equally has hardly been advertised. So failing to get further income from the share issue, bringing in a major investor looks like the obvious route forwards. certainly better than ultimately going to the wall and leaving everyone with nice share certificates and no club.
In an open, transparent process, we can at least be reassured that the charlatans and idiots will be quickly rooted out and perhaps a genuine investor can be brought on board, someone who understands the sort of club we are and what we want to be and sees merit in what we try to do.
I hope the net is cast far and wide, I understand that the Japanese are keen to invest in football, maybe an advert in the Tokyo financial press would be worthwhile, certainly they should be looking at the US and perhaps even places like South Korea. Manchester Airport is only half an hour away from the ground.....The other possibility of course, is that they already have someone in mind and conversations have already started.
In any case, with 15 points on the board and half way through the season, something has to change quickly, and investment is the really only option, Lots of it would be fantastic if it involved a new stadium and a complete overhaul of things like training facilities and matchday experience in terms of parking, neighbours and the options for other income streams, but if not, someone who is happy to see a reversal in fortunes and can set us on an upwards trajectory would be equally welcome. Either way I wish them well in their search. [Post edited 30 Dec 2022 17:44]
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 17:44 - Dec 30 with 7518 views | Brierls |
None of the above is news to the majority of fans, surely? Losing money over the course of a year, without player sales and/or a good cup run, is the way it’s been at Dale for years. We’ve always sought investment.
I don’t think it’s ever been broadcast in that manner. We’ve always asked for transparency, it turns out transparency can be pretty brutal.
I can’t help but think the current situation on the pitch has driven the public approach. It’s obvious to everyone that major changes are needed in January, as it stands only minor changes are possible. The optimist in me says we’re already discussing with potential investors and this is a public appeal to get it over the line in order to make changes in January to give us a better chance of retaining league status. We’re a better investment as a league club. |  | | |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 17:52 - Dec 30 with 7465 views | 442Dale |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 17:41 - Dec 30 by 49thseason |
This latest statement shouldn't be seen as a negative in my opinion. Clearly there needs to be a large financial input into the club, it has always been fanciful that we could operate as a fan-owned club with a couple of thousand supporters in a very poor town. The problem with the Bottomley search was that it was done in an almost a secret fashion and without prior notice and relevant information being presented properly to fans and shareholders, there was less interest in who than in how much.
The Directors are in a difficult situation, they have undertaken to buy a considerable number of shares to avoid a costly court case and paid a premium of about 16% above the last share offer. Understandably they didn't want to dilute the value of their shares (or anyone else's) and therefore the new issue was priced at £2.32. a price that has not attracted much attention or interest, but equally has hardly been advertised. So failing to get further income from the share issue, bringing in a major investor looks like the obvious route forwards. certainly better than ultimately going to the wall and leaving everyone with nice share certificates and no club.
In an open, transparent process, we can at least be reassured that the charlatans and idiots will be quickly rooted out and perhaps a genuine investor can be brought on board, someone who understands the sort of club we are and what we want to be and sees merit in what we try to do.
I hope the net is cast far and wide, I understand that the Japanese are keen to invest in football, maybe an advert in the Tokyo financial press would be worthwhile, certainly they should be looking at the US and perhaps even places like South Korea. Manchester Airport is only half an hour away from the ground.....The other possibility of course, is that they already have someone in mind and conversations have already started.
In any case, with 15 points on the board and half way through the season, something has to change quickly, and investment is the really only option, Lots of it would be fantastic if it involved a new stadium and a complete overhaul of things like training facilities and matchday experience in terms of parking, neighbours and the options for other income streams, but if not, someone who is happy to see a reversal in fortunes and can set us on an upwards trajectory would be equally welcome. Either way I wish them well in their search. [Post edited 30 Dec 2022 17:44]
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The points made in your third paragraph about the process are a definite positive. There’s little doubt it’s good to have a board in place who will ensure that we get the right investor if that’s now the direction the club may have to travel. | |
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 17:52 - Dec 30 with 7443 views | D_Alien |
I'd absolutely welcome investment from someone who knows how to run a commercial operation. Having an objective stance which involves a professional relationship with our Commercial team without fear or favour would be a great start |  |
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:03 - Dec 30 with 7377 views | 49thseason |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 17:52 - Dec 30 by D_Alien |
I'd absolutely welcome investment from someone who knows how to run a commercial operation. Having an objective stance which involves a professional relationship with our Commercial team without fear or favour would be a great start |
The problem is how to marry a slick commercial operation with a football operation that seems to be laden with unworkable coaching ideas, one-sided contracts, and an insatiable appetite for taking money and spending it, often under false pretences.
Running a business is hard enough but when all the expertise involved in running the football team is in the hands of the hired help, who has no investment in the club other than a relatively huge salary which is unconnected to the results on the pitch, there is clearly a problem.
That very very few ex-players become owners of clubs tells its own story, they know full well its impossible to make players actually play at an agreed standard. effectively the players have all the cards and little downside. the club owners have all the downside and relatively few of the cards. | | | |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:07 - Dec 30 with 7353 views | Albert_Whitehurst |
The club email hints at a distinct lack of commercial astuteness from the board on how to run a football club. It isn’t their background and/or there isn’t any real experience there, that much is plain to see. The numbers don’t add up, press the panic button.
For those Dale fans, long in the tooth, it’s well known the numbers have never really added up and survival has been achieved with personal investment from board members alongside tapping their network for an additional board member to buy their way in.
To receive a blanket ‘call for investment’ would suggest the current board also have no connections of note that might want to put money in, very worrying.
On a footballing note, I fear that the January window for players therefore will not be our savior. |  | | |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:10 - Dec 30 with 7315 views | D_Alien |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:03 - Dec 30 by 49thseason |
The problem is how to marry a slick commercial operation with a football operation that seems to be laden with unworkable coaching ideas, one-sided contracts, and an insatiable appetite for taking money and spending it, often under false pretences.
Running a business is hard enough but when all the expertise involved in running the football team is in the hands of the hired help, who has no investment in the club other than a relatively huge salary which is unconnected to the results on the pitch, there is clearly a problem.
That very very few ex-players become owners of clubs tells its own story, they know full well its impossible to make players actually play at an agreed standard. effectively the players have all the cards and little downside. the club owners have all the downside and relatively few of the cards. |
No 'marriage' is required
If a "hired help" doesn't perform over a period of time, the hiring becomes a firing, as with Stockdale
What i was referring to was oversight of the club's Commercial operation, which should stand or fall by the same principles, but may not be required to do so | |
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:15 - Dec 30 with 7297 views | SalwaDale |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:07 - Dec 30 by Albert_Whitehurst |
The club email hints at a distinct lack of commercial astuteness from the board on how to run a football club. It isn’t their background and/or there isn’t any real experience there, that much is plain to see. The numbers don’t add up, press the panic button.
For those Dale fans, long in the tooth, it’s well known the numbers have never really added up and survival has been achieved with personal investment from board members alongside tapping their network for an additional board member to buy their way in.
To receive a blanket ‘call for investment’ would suggest the current board also have no connections of note that might want to put money in, very worrying.
On a footballing note, I fear that the January window for players therefore will not be our savior. |
I think this pretty much sums up the state of things. The board undoubtedly saved us from disaster but their desire to cut all ties with everything that was linked to the previous regime has not helped at all. |  |
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:22 - Dec 30 with 7248 views | TomRAFC |
There's a difficult line to walk between showing huge appreciation to the current board for what they've done to save the club, and feeling able to offer fair criticism. It's hard to express both sentiments at once and come across as even-handed as intended. After their hardwork and personal sacrifice, I'm sure some of the daft criticism across social media/occasionally on here must stick in the board's throat somewhat. As per usual, it comes from those who feel big and clever when they are being boorish.
There's a difference between outside investment and offering a controlling stake, although there's an obvious point about who would want to invest without some level of control. Having bought shares to keep the club fan owned, and voted in favour of a share release after a letter from the chairman that expressly stated it was not intended "to provoke any kind of takeover of our club", I'm very disappointed in the letter.
Anyone who has attended any of the fans forums/AGM/EGM events in recent times may share my opinion that Chris Harrison coming on as a non-executive director is the best signing we've made in a long time. We need a similar masterstroke with regards to a Colin Garlick type character behind the scenes. Someone good with contracts and the day to day running of a football club. George Delves may be a lovely man, so much so that Stockdale thanked him in his post-sacking reflections on linkedin, but his performance alongside the ever expanding commercial team is not bearing fruit. The board are finding out, as many have before, that running a business and running a football can be two very different experiences.
Hopefully some players, especially if there are any with wages outside of a sustainable budget, can be gotten off the books and replaced with some players who can do the dirty work and keep us up.
The financial side of things feels more precarious than it has in a long time. | |
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:23 - Dec 30 with 7235 views | judd |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:15 - Dec 30 by SalwaDale |
I think this pretty much sums up the state of things. The board undoubtedly saved us from disaster but their desire to cut all ties with everything that was linked to the previous regime has not helped at all. |
Which ties? | |
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:26 - Dec 30 with 7208 views | sandylaner |
There is a really good interview on Kieran Maguires price of football pod with Huw Jenkins about how he took over Swansea when they were rock bottom. In the interview he says he would line to get involved with a club again someone like that might be perfect for us. | | | |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:33 - Dec 30 with 7121 views | fourfourtwo |
I would seriously hope someone at the club has, or is planning on, picking up the phone to Chris Dunphy.
No matter what has happened in the recent past, no matter what mistakes were made (usually with good intentions), the man has unbelievable experience to step in and help guide this limp ship. | | | |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:33 - Dec 30 with 7114 views | SalwaDale |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:23 - Dec 30 by judd |
Which ties? |
Perhaps badly worded but so many of these saltaff that were here then have now gone. We've fallen out big style with Hornets (wherever the blame lies there) and IKON sports (think my spelling correct there), previous matchball/mathcday sponsors etc have found it difficult to talk to people at the club about gettin more boxes.
Whether all this was intentional or just poor commercial management isn't something I know the answer to. Without doubt this board saved us from Morton House and that can never be forgotten. My own personal dealing with the club this year has shown those I dealt with to be very nice people. Sadly we do seem to have been missing commercial accumen and somebody to run things day by day though. Hopefully we get the investment we need and a few tweaks can leave this current board as a successful one. | |
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:35 - Dec 30 with 7099 views | rkershaw |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 16:55 - Dec 30 by rkershaw |
Outside in'vest'men...??...like Messrs Michael / Nesbitt?? [Post edited 30 Dec 2022 17:01]
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Ok.....not Mr Michael perhaps.....but a female singer born in the the borough and an alleged supporter.....reportedly worth 12.5M....currently with a recording label begininning and ending with the letter A worth 2000,000,000....sometimes it's not what you know but who you know!! ;) [Post edited 30 Dec 2022 18:47]
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:39 - Dec 30 with 7054 views | 442Dale |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:33 - Dec 30 by fourfourtwo |
I would seriously hope someone at the club has, or is planning on, picking up the phone to Chris Dunphy.
No matter what has happened in the recent past, no matter what mistakes were made (usually with good intentions), the man has unbelievable experience to step in and help guide this limp ship. |
Really hope he’s seen today’s news and thought about getting involved again. Even adding some much needed football experience to the board is enough reason. | |
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| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:45 - Dec 30 with 7007 views | fourfourtwo |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:39 - Dec 30 by 442Dale |
Really hope he’s seen today’s news and thought about getting involved again. Even adding some much needed football experience to the board is enough reason. |
Agreed.
If anybody who uses this message board has a direct line of contact to Mr Dunphy please can you pick up the phone and urge him to step back into the fold.
There is nobody more qualified to help. | | | |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 19:10 - Dec 30 with 6884 views | NorthernDale |
| CLUB STATEMENT on 18:33 - Dec 30 by fourfourtwo |
I would seriously hope someone at the club has, or is planning on, picking up the phone to Chris Dunphy.
No matter what has happened in the recent past, no matter what mistakes were made (usually with good intentions), the man has unbelievable experience to step in and help guide this limp ship. |
I would also invite Chris Dunphy back and our financial position looks dodgy, but as I have said before, our board are honest and in truth a bit too honest, i would be interested in seeing the financial state of clubs and imagine it would be the same, if not worse then the Dale. I know some clubs like crowing about the quality of the squads, but many are only surviving due to the generosity of the owners, but what happens when the owners have had enough or is forced to walk away from their clubs for other reasons I suspect that very few clubs in the EFL making a profit year in, year out and I imagine most are in debt. Sooner or later the EFL need to wake up to the financial state of the EFL clubs, it may result in a wage cap or even a division two north and south to reduce costs, but ignoring it is not the answer, at least the board are facing up to the financial reality that is impacting upon football.
However back to the Dale, I feel the club should seek to look at issuing a new share option, in the new year, when people may have the money to buy shares, rather then the period leading up to Christmas, when most people have additional costs to deal with. I hold Bottomley partly responsible, he cost the club close on a £ 1 million by involving the shysters in buying shares, which resulted in the board buying the shares back, plus the legal costs.
In the short-term, I feel the board should a seek loan from the council, using the ground as an asset to help us through the difficult period. It may also force the board to look at economies in terms of the players budget over the coming years, which draw criticisms from some, but may be necessary to keep the club in existence. | | | |
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