| Attendances dipping 08:54 - Aug 18 with 13082 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Much talk about this pre season.
It appears the average is over 1000 down on last season so far.
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| Attendances dipping on 13:21 - Aug 21 with 1094 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 12:50 - Aug 21 by Jack_Kass |
Annddd what's funny is that everyone in this thread is wrong because the data you are fighting over cannot be verified as accurate, unless you work for the club of course.
If you REALLY want the true figures then file a freedom of information request with the local council/police and hope they don't just turn you back to the club.
Legally all the club has to know is how many individuals are in the building/complex at one time (matchday). They could report the attendance figure at 30 000 every week if they wanted to. [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 12:51]
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They couldn’t because they would then be chased for the tax for that income.
The attendance is tracked and reported as a tax requirement, not just as a fun thing to do.
That’s why they take into consideration ALL ST holders whether they turn up or not. It’s tickets sold not bums on seats.
It’s ticket sales we are interested in. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 13:39 - Aug 21 with 1078 views | Jack_Kass |
I think the executive management team are wise enough (just) to record the actual figures in their accounting process, as opposed to the media number you see.
The club could publish the attendance in the media as 30k every week and it wouldnt make a difference to anything, its a completely arbitrary figure in comparison to what goes in the books.
Ahh, maybe the thread should be titled 'Ticket Sales dipping' then? If that's what you've been focusing on. |  |
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| Attendances dipping on 13:40 - Aug 21 with 1074 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 13:39 - Aug 21 by Jack_Kass |
I think the executive management team are wise enough (just) to record the actual figures in their accounting process, as opposed to the media number you see.
The club could publish the attendance in the media as 30k every week and it wouldnt make a difference to anything, its a completely arbitrary figure in comparison to what goes in the books.
Ahh, maybe the thread should be titled 'Ticket Sales dipping' then? If that's what you've been focusing on. |
Ticket sales/attendance whatever you would like to call it.
Both are down.
The question is why? | |
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| Attendances dipping on 14:06 - Aug 21 with 1053 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 11:58 - Aug 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
It’s your last contribution because you are completely stuck and cannot argue against my factual logic.
That winding you up is probably more a reflection of your inability to admit you are wrong as opposed to me actually winding you up, but I’m sure you know that.
I’m not banging on about anything. I was challenged by another poster to look into other teams as he believed it would reveal the same trend - it didn’t, it showed the opposite.
So again, why are Swansea the only team in the league to have such a dip?
Any excuse will do that we can explore, otherwise I’ll assume you have arrived at the obvious which is the absolute apathy in the fan base due to our manager as highlighted on fans forums declaring they are no longer attending or did not renew as a result. |
Have you found any other teams that have played against two of the opponents in their top five lowest gates last season yet?
I’m not wrong at all. I’m just not twisting stats to stir the pot.
And it’s up to others to judge the fairer way of assessing attendances after three games. I can point out how your method is flawed, you can’t do the same. The further into the season we go, the more accurate yours becomes. We’re still in August.
Tell you what though, transfermarkt has our average attendance at 17,389 last season. With your leeway, it’s 16,889. £100 charity bet, I’ll take it. | | | |
| Attendances dipping on 14:12 - Aug 21 with 1043 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 14:06 - Aug 21 by jack247 |
Have you found any other teams that have played against two of the opponents in their top five lowest gates last season yet?
I’m not wrong at all. I’m just not twisting stats to stir the pot.
And it’s up to others to judge the fairer way of assessing attendances after three games. I can point out how your method is flawed, you can’t do the same. The further into the season we go, the more accurate yours becomes. We’re still in August.
Tell you what though, transfermarkt has our average attendance at 17,389 last season. With your leeway, it’s 16,889. £100 charity bet, I’ll take it. |
What’s being twisted?
I’m comparing a complete average last season to the complete average we have this season. Nothing is being twisted there.
You tried to twist it by adding Huddersfield and Blackburn to it and suggested that the trend would be the same with them - it wasn’t, so you ignored it.
If you tell me each teams bottom 5 attendances last season then I’ll take a look. It’s your theory I guess you should put in the work to research it. I did the work for you on your last theory and when it didn’t turn out the way you wanted - you made a silly remark and ignored it.
£100 it is. Of course the bet doesn’t stand if Russ is sacked mid season, my whole point is that people aren’t going because of him. If he stays then 500 leeway is yours. [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 14:28]
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| Attendances dipping on 14:18 - Aug 21 with 1037 views | Dr_Parnassus |
I’ll also take your Huddersfield bet.
Same terms. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 14:31 - Aug 21 with 1023 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 14:12 - Aug 21 by Dr_Parnassus |
What’s being twisted?
I’m comparing a complete average last season to the complete average we have this season. Nothing is being twisted there.
You tried to twist it by adding Huddersfield and Blackburn to it and suggested that the trend would be the same with them - it wasn’t, so you ignored it.
If you tell me each teams bottom 5 attendances last season then I’ll take a look. It’s your theory I guess you should put in the work to research it. I did the work for you on your last theory and when it didn’t turn out the way you wanted - you made a silly remark and ignored it.
£100 it is. Of course the bet doesn’t stand if Russ is sacked mid season, my whole point is that people aren’t going because of him. If he stays then 500 leeway is yours. [Post edited 21 Aug 2022 14:28]
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You know exactly what is being twisted. So does anyone else reading this thread. You’ve compared three of the games on the lower end of attendances last season to games against teams with much better travelling support. You understand that point, you just choose not to acknowledge it.
It’s very likely that we are the only club who have played two of the teams who brought the least to us last season. As we know, if we take our three games against Blackburn, Milwall and Luton in isolation last season, the average attendance from them is a lot lower than the whole season average.
You added Blackburn, not me.
I’m assuming from your lack of response, you’ve realised the cost of living crisis is not ‘nonsense’?
£100 either until the end of the season or until Russell Martin leaves the club. Whichever comes first. | | | |
| Attendances dipping on 21:54 - Aug 21 with 990 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 14:31 - Aug 21 by jack247 |
You know exactly what is being twisted. So does anyone else reading this thread. You’ve compared three of the games on the lower end of attendances last season to games against teams with much better travelling support. You understand that point, you just choose not to acknowledge it.
It’s very likely that we are the only club who have played two of the teams who brought the least to us last season. As we know, if we take our three games against Blackburn, Milwall and Luton in isolation last season, the average attendance from them is a lot lower than the whole season average.
You added Blackburn, not me.
I’m assuming from your lack of response, you’ve realised the cost of living crisis is not ‘nonsense’?
£100 either until the end of the season or until Russell Martin leaves the club. Whichever comes first. |
Ah you are back to saying what everyone else can see. I’ve missed that.
If I am twisting it then you would be able to tell me why Swansea are the only team in the league to have attendance dipped by 1000+. Most others have increased.
You said others would have the same, singled out two teams, I checked and the opposite was true.
I did respond to your cost of living nonsense. I said of course it exists, but not in the capacity it’s being discussed here where football attendances crash - on the contrary, the opposite has happened. So using it as an excuse as to why Swansea have 1000 less fans at the games certainly is nonsense.
I’m still waiting for you to give me some clubs that have played acceptable teams to your liking, in the most contrived and confirmation bias experiment ever.  | |
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| Attendances dipping on 22:22 - Aug 21 with 977 views | AndyCole |
The Fact is, attendances are falling off because of the shite show dished up by Martinball.
It's a losing brand, we are losing badly esp at home, the fans are dismayed, even the passive supporters are now beyond disinterested. The lack of supporter-engagement at the .Com is off the cliff - it was like a morgue vs Blackburn and has declined markedly since (minor blip vs Miiwowl excepted til the boos at the end) - many fans around us leaving early , booing on exit .
Give me (and all rational winners) entertaining football winning effectively, efficiently and out-smarting the oppo all day. As opposed to meaningless Martinball losing nonsense.
The Deflectionism on this thread has been embarrassing to behold. Cringe and puerile.
Fortunately for the proper fans, the deflectors will always be held to account.
Attendances down, morale off the cliff, like a morgue nowadays under Martinfraudball.
..... which ofc brings us back to the thrust of this thread. | |
| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| Attendances dipping on 03:12 - Aug 22 with 936 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Updated.
1. Blackburn +1611
2. Hull +4524
…………………………
3. (Relegated from Premier League)
4. Sheff Utd +317
5. (Relegated from Premier League)
6. Cardiff City +1516
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7. Millwall +1653
8. Preston +2574
9. Reading -538
10. Blackpool -940
11. (Promoted from League 1)
12. (Promoted from League 1)
13. (Relegated from Premier League)
14. Birmingham +478
15. Swansea -1035
16. Bristol City +5361
17. QPR -704
18. Stoke +63
19. (Promoted from League 1)
20. Middlesbrough +4613
21. Huddersfield +2138
………………………………
22. WBA +187
23. Luton (missing info)
24. Coventry (missing info)
I’ve also been through last seasons data.
The three teams we have played so far combined relate to our 19th highest attendance last season. (15th, 22nd and 20th) which comes out at -1035 on last seasons average and -515 on their exact comparisons to their specific matches last year.
So now I’ll go through the other teams in the league this season who have either faced someone who was 19th or lower last season in their attendance figures and compare them.
- Blackburn played someone 17th in last seasons home attendance figures and beat it by +3,044 this season. (Close enough to mention but not quite at the threshold)
- Hull played someone 21st in last seasons home attendance figures and beat it by +6,221 this season.
- Sheff Utd played someone 23rd in last seasons attendance figures and beat it by +2,393 this season.
- Cardiff did not even closely fit the criteria of playing anyone so low in attendance charts last season.
- Millwall did not even closely fit the criteria of playing anyone so low in attendance charts last season.
- Preston did not even closely fit the criteria of playing anyone so low in attendance charts last season.
- Reading did not even closely fit the criteria of playing anyone so low in attendance charts last season
- Blackpool played someone 23rd in last seasons attendance figures and went under it by -123.
- Bristol City played someone 23rd in last seasons attendance figures and beat it by +451.
- Swansea City are down -515 on their equivalent fixtures.
- QPR played someone 22nd in last seasons attendance figures and beat it by +513
- Stoke did not even closely fit the criteria of playing anyone so low in attendance charts last season.
- Boro did not even closely fit the criteria of playing anyone so low in attendance charts last season.
- Huddersfield did not even closely fit the criteria of playing anyone so low in attendance charts last season.
- WBA played someone 23rd in last seasons attendance figures and beat it by +2,444.
I think that puts that one to bed too. [Post edited 22 Aug 2022 5:08]
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| Attendances dipping on 03:22 - Aug 22 with 932 views | Dr_Parnassus |
If anyone wants the above condensed.
I have followed Jack247’s theory of us playing teams who last season we also had poor attendances for. So I have gone through every team and compared any team with the same or lower threshold from last seasons opposition.
7 teams qualified under those restrictions, 1 was very close to qualifying.
The average increase or decrease in the league between this season and last season vs teams 19th or less in each teams previous attendance standings is…
+ 1719 (I did not include the borderline team which would have made that figure much larger)
Swansea stands at -515.
The table of that criteria is as follows:-
Hull +6221
Blackburn + 3044
WBA + 2444
QPR +513
Bristol City + 451
Blackpool -124
Swansea - 515
(Sheff Utd borderline club +2393)
So we have lost the most in terms of average attendance from last season and this season, we have also lost the most over specific historically poor games compared to last season.
Where else does the experiment turn before the obvious conclusion is reached?
Happy to oblige any new theories. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 18:25 - Aug 23 with 831 views | STID2017 |
| Attendances dipping on 03:22 - Aug 22 by Dr_Parnassus |
If anyone wants the above condensed.
I have followed Jack247’s theory of us playing teams who last season we also had poor attendances for. So I have gone through every team and compared any team with the same or lower threshold from last seasons opposition.
7 teams qualified under those restrictions, 1 was very close to qualifying.
The average increase or decrease in the league between this season and last season vs teams 19th or less in each teams previous attendance standings is…
+ 1719 (I did not include the borderline team which would have made that figure much larger)
Swansea stands at -515.
The table of that criteria is as follows:-
Hull +6221
Blackburn + 3044
WBA + 2444
QPR +513
Bristol City + 451
Blackpool -124
Swansea - 515
(Sheff Utd borderline club +2393)
So we have lost the most in terms of average attendance from last season and this season, we have also lost the most over specific historically poor games compared to last season.
Where else does the experiment turn before the obvious conclusion is reached?
Happy to oblige any new theories. |
Not disagreeing with your theories about attendances.
However with 20 home league games left, if either Martin turns it around and we make a push for promotion or a new manager comes in and manages to rejuvenate things and likewise get us going and making a promotion push, then surely we will see a large increase in attendances ( such as happened at Forest last season ) ?
NB Forest's lowest was just under 24k in the September and their highest was a little over 29k ( I believe in April ). Their average was around 27k.
So such an increase from the announced 16k for our last two home games would certainly be expected if we turn this season around [Post edited 23 Aug 2022 18:33]
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| Attendances dipping on 23:56 - Aug 23 with 784 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 18:25 - Aug 23 by STID2017 |
Not disagreeing with your theories about attendances.
However with 20 home league games left, if either Martin turns it around and we make a push for promotion or a new manager comes in and manages to rejuvenate things and likewise get us going and making a promotion push, then surely we will see a large increase in attendances ( such as happened at Forest last season ) ?
NB Forest's lowest was just under 24k in the September and their highest was a little over 29k ( I believe in April ). Their average was around 27k.
So such an increase from the announced 16k for our last two home games would certainly be expected if we turn this season around [Post edited 23 Aug 2022 18:33]
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Absolutely.
That’s why I put in the caveat that if Martin is sacked the comparison ends, because the fans will probably be excited again then.
IF Martin turns us around then yep they will also come back, but it’s not likely is it. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 13:24 - Aug 24 with 725 views | whiterock |
| Attendances dipping on 23:56 - Aug 23 by Dr_Parnassus |
Absolutely.
That’s why I put in the caveat that if Martin is sacked the comparison ends, because the fans will probably be excited again then.
IF Martin turns us around then yep they will also come back, but it’s not likely is it. |
Also, we'd probably get 25k+ for Cardiff, if we had the space, teams like Sunderland tend to have a full away ends which in turn galvanises the home support, Millwall on a Tuesday night with a train strike is never going to be a full house (hats off the the couple of hundred that did turn up).
Numbers are declining tho, but lets have a look at the end of the season, not three games in. | | | |
| Attendances dipping on 15:19 - Aug 24 with 686 views | onehunglow |
| Attendances dipping on 22:22 - Aug 21 by AndyCole |
The Fact is, attendances are falling off because of the shite show dished up by Martinball.
It's a losing brand, we are losing badly esp at home, the fans are dismayed, even the passive supporters are now beyond disinterested. The lack of supporter-engagement at the .Com is off the cliff - it was like a morgue vs Blackburn and has declined markedly since (minor blip vs Miiwowl excepted til the boos at the end) - many fans around us leaving early , booing on exit .
Give me (and all rational winners) entertaining football winning effectively, efficiently and out-smarting the oppo all day. As opposed to meaningless Martinball losing nonsense.
The Deflectionism on this thread has been embarrassing to behold. Cringe and puerile.
Fortunately for the proper fans, the deflectors will always be held to account.
Attendances down, morale off the cliff, like a morgue nowadays under Martinfraudball.
..... which ofc brings us back to the thrust of this thread. |
But people who were there reported the atmosphere as superb.
It shows they like all of us are like Stepford Wives. Duped . | |
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| Attendances dipping on 09:21 - Sep 4 with 542 views | Dr_Parnassus |
I said I would update this weekly.
Dipped below 16,000 for the first time this season.
Average attendance this season: 16,239
Average attendance last season: 17,389
QPR was our 4th highest home attendance last season. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 09:38 - Sep 4 with 520 views | 73__73 |
| Attendances dipping on 09:21 - Sep 4 by Dr_Parnassus |
I said I would update this weekly.
Dipped below 16,000 for the first time this season.
Average attendance this season: 16,239
Average attendance last season: 17,389
QPR was our 4th highest home attendance last season. |
QPR was last game of the season which historically will have a good crowd.
We ain’t played anymore yet who has brought a decent away crowd. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 09:41 - Sep 4 with 515 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 09:38 - Sep 4 by 73__73 |
QPR was last game of the season which historically will have a good crowd.
We ain’t played anymore yet who has brought a decent away crowd. |
Every game there seems to be some sort of excuse.
The numbers don’t lie. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 09:48 - Sep 4 with 488 views | 73__73 |
| Attendances dipping on 09:41 - Sep 4 by Dr_Parnassus |
Every game there seems to be some sort of excuse.
The numbers don’t lie. |
The numbers don’t tell the truth though at this stage of the season.
Had we played Cardiff, Bristol, West Brom, Birmingham instead of Blackburn, Millwall, Luton , qpr the attendances would probably be up on this time last season.
It an ridiculous argument though, any excuse to bash the manager I suppose | |
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| Attendances dipping on 09:54 - Sep 4 with 479 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 09:48 - Sep 4 by 73__73 |
The numbers don’t tell the truth though at this stage of the season.
Had we played Cardiff, Bristol, West Brom, Birmingham instead of Blackburn, Millwall, Luton , qpr the attendances would probably be up on this time last season.
It an ridiculous argument though, any excuse to bash the manager I suppose |
Nothing ridiculous about it at all, your explanations are ridiculous - the facts aren’t.
Attendances are clearly down and it’s ludicrous to claim otherwise. The bet is there for you to take too…
You won’t be winning this debate sir. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 09:59 - Sep 4 with 473 views | 73__73 |
| Attendances dipping on 09:54 - Sep 4 by Dr_Parnassus |
Nothing ridiculous about it at all, your explanations are ridiculous - the facts aren’t.
Attendances are clearly down and it’s ludicrous to claim otherwise. The bet is there for you to take too…
You won’t be winning this debate sir. |
You are only arguing with yourself sir.
In over 30 years of watching the Swans I’ve seen crowds go up and down.
Do well and they go up, do poorly and they go down.
It’s not rocket science and hardly a new phenomena | |
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| Attendances dipping on 10:05 - Sep 4 with 468 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 09:59 - Sep 4 by 73__73 |
You are only arguing with yourself sir.
In over 30 years of watching the Swans I’ve seen crowds go up and down.
Do well and they go up, do poorly and they go down.
It’s not rocket science and hardly a new phenomena |
Oh so you now agree with me attendances are down.
Why didn’t you just say so instead of pretending otherwise.
As you were then. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 10:43 - Sep 4 with 427 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 10:05 - Sep 4 by Dr_Parnassus |
Oh so you now agree with me attendances are down.
Why didn’t you just say so instead of pretending otherwise.
As you were then. |
I want to add one slight condition to this bet if you’re amenable to it?
Rather than a charity of the other persons choice, the loser donates £100 to Keiths charity.
Other than that, as we were. Average attendances at the end of the season to be within 500 of last seasons, equal to it or higher.
If he does leave before the end of the season, I don’t mind if you want to void it or take the count from that point, but specify either way so I’m clear.
Reasonable enough? | | | |
| Attendances dipping on 10:53 - Sep 4 with 417 views | Badlands |
| Attendances dipping on 10:05 - Sep 4 by Dr_Parnassus |
Oh so you now agree with me attendances are down.
Why didn’t you just say so instead of pretending otherwise.
As you were then. |
Attendance in one game is down on the same period last year.
Total attendance for our first four home games =
22/23 … 64958
21/22 … 64197
As you previously showed you have no understanding basic sums, I will once again spell it out as a simple as possible.
Attendance this season is UP by (64990 - 64197) 761 on last season.
Average attendance
16239
16247 |  |
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| Attendances dipping on 11:09 - Sep 4 with 402 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 10:53 - Sep 4 by Badlands |
Attendance in one game is down on the same period last year.
Total attendance for our first four home games =
22/23 … 64958
21/22 … 64197
As you previously showed you have no understanding basic sums, I will once again spell it out as a simple as possible.
Attendance this season is UP by (64990 - 64197) 761 on last season.
Average attendance
16239
16247 |
You don’t compare by sequence, that’s one of the most ludicrously stupid theories yet.
And you aren’t even correct anyway. You can’t even get your own theories correct let alone grasp actually viable ones.
Last season: 65,681
This season: 64,958
DOWN by 723.
Try again champ. | |
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