| Attendances dipping 08:54 - Aug 18 with 13079 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Much talk about this pre season.
It appears the average is over 1000 down on last season so far.
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| Attendances dipping on 06:56 - Aug 20 with 708 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 05:02 - Aug 20 by 73__73 |
There is no evidence that less Swans fans are at the ground. Had we played Bristol and Birmingham both who would bring around 2,000 instead of Blackburn and Millwall both who had a poor following, the average attendance would be higher than last seasons average. |
Common sense will suggest there is less Swansea fans in the stadium. Last season we had sold out our ST’s. We have just had a poster above tell us he just changed his seats with two sat together.
When you have to do mental gymnastics to muddy the water, it’s when you realise you are probably wrong. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 07:48 - Aug 20 with 689 views | jack247 |
Swansea v Milwall 2022/23 - 16068. 2021/22 - 16007
Swansea v Blackburn 2022/23 - 16632. 2021/23 - 16933
Up by 61 against Milwall
Down by 301 against Blackburn
Against those two teams combined, we were down by an average of 120. Neither of these fixtures last season were played when people are likely to be on holiday.
We’re also up compared to our opening two fixtures last season.
Yes, you can compare those two attendances, both with poor away support, against the whole of last season, including Cardiff, Bristol City, Forest etc if you want to make it look like less people are choosing to attend.
In the early throes of a cost of living crisis, I’d have expected attendances everywhere outside the big PL clubs to be significantly down. So far, at least, they aren’t. |  | | |
| Attendances dipping on 08:00 - Aug 20 with 668 views | Whiterockin |
| Attendances dipping on 07:48 - Aug 20 by jack247 |
Swansea v Milwall 2022/23 - 16068. 2021/22 - 16007
Swansea v Blackburn 2022/23 - 16632. 2021/23 - 16933
Up by 61 against Milwall
Down by 301 against Blackburn
Against those two teams combined, we were down by an average of 120. Neither of these fixtures last season were played when people are likely to be on holiday.
We’re also up compared to our opening two fixtures last season.
Yes, you can compare those two attendances, both with poor away support, against the whole of last season, including Cardiff, Bristol City, Forest etc if you want to make it look like less people are choosing to attend.
In the early throes of a cost of living crisis, I’d have expected attendances everywhere outside the big PL clubs to be significantly down. So far, at least, they aren’t. |
Everyone except for one can clearly see after 2 games our attendances are not down. It's far to early to judge how the season will pan out so at this stage its a completely pointless exercise unless you have an agenda. |  | | |
| Attendances dipping on 08:18 - Aug 20 with 633 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 08:00 - Aug 20 by Whiterockin |
Everyone except for one can clearly see after 2 games our attendances are not down. It's far to early to judge how the season will pan out so at this stage its a completely pointless exercise unless you have an agenda. |
Even 247 said our attendances were down, he just disagreed on the amount. 
You have to be trolling at this point. Surely.
It’s not pointless at all and a completely valid point to be making. Again, ST’s sold out last year, this year they have not.
We are also 1000+ down on last seasons average and down by hundreds when combining the exact games last season compared to the exact ones this season.
I understand you don’t want it to be true, but not wanting something to be true is not a valid argument against fact.
I will happily bet (charity or otherwise) that this trend will continue to the end of the season and end up less, would anyone bet against that?…. of course not.
Says it all about the excuses and mental gymnastics people are making. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 08:19 - Aug 20 with 632 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 07:48 - Aug 20 by jack247 |
Swansea v Milwall 2022/23 - 16068. 2021/22 - 16007
Swansea v Blackburn 2022/23 - 16632. 2021/23 - 16933
Up by 61 against Milwall
Down by 301 against Blackburn
Against those two teams combined, we were down by an average of 120. Neither of these fixtures last season were played when people are likely to be on holiday.
We’re also up compared to our opening two fixtures last season.
Yes, you can compare those two attendances, both with poor away support, against the whole of last season, including Cardiff, Bristol City, Forest etc if you want to make it look like less people are choosing to attend.
In the early throes of a cost of living crisis, I’d have expected attendances everywhere outside the big PL clubs to be significantly down. So far, at least, they aren’t. |
So you think we are down 240 on last season. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 08:39 - Aug 20 with 613 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 08:19 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
So you think we are down 240 on last season. |
I don’t think that, it’s fact.
What I do think is that 240 over two games, when we weren’t in the summer holidays and the cost of everything wasn’t spiralling when we played the same opposition is less than I’d expect.
Do you think our attendances over the first two games are higher than our first two games last season? | | | |
| Attendances dipping on 08:52 - Aug 20 with 601 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 08:39 - Aug 20 by jack247 |
I don’t think that, it’s fact.
What I do think is that 240 over two games, when we weren’t in the summer holidays and the cost of everything wasn’t spiralling when we played the same opposition is less than I’d expect.
Do you think our attendances over the first two games are higher than our first two games last season? |
Then we are both factually sure attendances are down. I’m happy with my 1000 average figure, you are happy in the hundreds.
Exactly how much is probably splitting hairs, the point is attendances are down.
Surely due to the cost of living crisis that people are going on about, it being holidays means there is more likely to be people at home with a little bit of disposable income considering many won’t be going away on expensive holidays or be at work? Not to mention those holidaying in Swansea wanting to see a game.
I never subscribe to holidays being an excuse for lower attendances. The holidays tend to create bigger attendances not lower ones, even in expensive times. Take Xmas for example, despite rising costs and people often being on holiday - attendances soar.
Either way you look at it, attendances are down and there isn’t a single person on here would bet the opposite even if I have them the rest of the season.
There is a reason for that. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 09:13 - Aug 20 with 591 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 08:52 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
Then we are both factually sure attendances are down. I’m happy with my 1000 average figure, you are happy in the hundreds.
Exactly how much is probably splitting hairs, the point is attendances are down.
Surely due to the cost of living crisis that people are going on about, it being holidays means there is more likely to be people at home with a little bit of disposable income considering many won’t be going away on expensive holidays or be at work? Not to mention those holidaying in Swansea wanting to see a game.
I never subscribe to holidays being an excuse for lower attendances. The holidays tend to create bigger attendances not lower ones, even in expensive times. Take Xmas for example, despite rising costs and people often being on holiday - attendances soar.
Either way you look at it, attendances are down and there isn’t a single person on here would bet the opposite even if I have them the rest of the season.
There is a reason for that. |
Yes and economy is the reason people won’t take that bet.
I’m willing to bet average attendances will be lower throughout the entire football league this season than last. No reason why Swansea City would be immune from that.
The cost of living crisis means that some will have to choose between a family holiday and season tickets for mum, dad and two kids, whereas previously they could afford both. Some will go abroad, some will choose football.
Well based on our first two home fixtures, obviously both in the summer, last season, attendances are indisputably up. People don’t tend to go to Corfu at Christmas.
My figure isn’t even in the hundreds, it’s 120 average. Less than 1% of the attendance figure. | | | |
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| Attendances dipping on 09:24 - Aug 20 with 581 views | magicdaps10 |
You can only really fairly compare like for like.
Arguably and we know the reasons, last seasons attendances were higher than the seasons before, we all know the reason but ultimately its fact.
I think the discussion about attendances 2 games has no real substances as it stands, compared to the 2 games last seasons has a more solid argument but again I don't think it's something that can really be used in context in regards to Martin.
Personally, those who can't go because of finances then they get my sympathy and understanding. Those who don't go to support their club because if the manager can stay away as far as I am concerned.
I always feel that if a managers time is up, best thing is to go and give the support to the team because it would indicate its a time that they need it, also when you pay, I feel you have the right to air your frustration just as much as showing your joy at a game. |  |
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| Attendances dipping on 09:26 - Aug 20 with 579 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 09:13 - Aug 20 by jack247 |
Yes and economy is the reason people won’t take that bet.
I’m willing to bet average attendances will be lower throughout the entire football league this season than last. No reason why Swansea City would be immune from that.
The cost of living crisis means that some will have to choose between a family holiday and season tickets for mum, dad and two kids, whereas previously they could afford both. Some will go abroad, some will choose football.
Well based on our first two home fixtures, obviously both in the summer, last season, attendances are indisputably up. People don’t tend to go to Corfu at Christmas.
My figure isn’t even in the hundreds, it’s 120 average. Less than 1% of the attendance figure. |
The economy in what sense?
We had people arguing that attendances weren’t down, the economy has nothing to do with it if people don’t think attendances are down.
Would you be willing to bet that our average attendances will be down at a greater degree than someone like Blackburn who are looking like they are going to have a good season?
It’s funny how attendances creep up with good football and success regardless of the economy. But again nobody would bet that either because they know I’m right.
Your average isn’t in the hundreds - but your amount is. Mine is over 1000 and fully believe it will stay in and around 1000+ throughout the season. Happy to take bets on the opposite for anyone who disagrees.
Anyone? Of course not. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 09:45 - Aug 20 with 558 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 09:26 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
The economy in what sense?
We had people arguing that attendances weren’t down, the economy has nothing to do with it if people don’t think attendances are down.
Would you be willing to bet that our average attendances will be down at a greater degree than someone like Blackburn who are looking like they are going to have a good season?
It’s funny how attendances creep up with good football and success regardless of the economy. But again nobody would bet that either because they know I’m right.
Your average isn’t in the hundreds - but your amount is. Mine is over 1000 and fully believe it will stay in and around 1000+ throughout the season. Happy to take bets on the opposite for anyone who disagrees.
Anyone? Of course not. |
The economy as in cost of existing. Fuel for transport, to heat homes in winter, food. It won’t affect everyone, but people on tight budgets will have choices to make.
If the point you’re making is that a team doing well is going to have more floating support than when it is struggling, then nobody is going to dispute that. Not everyone is a hardcore fan. Some of the people having to make choices will be more inclined to choose football if they think we are going to win.
What most people are disputing is the assertion that has happened, after two games, which have seen higher attendances than the first two last season.
I thought you were talking averages? If not, 240 down over 2 games in the summer holidays. No different to 120 average, still considerably less than 1% of the attendance figure.
Are we saying Blackburn specifically, or a team that exceeds expectations?
If you want a stick to beat Russell Martin with, there are plenty. This isn’t one at the moment. | | | |
| Attendances dipping on 10:08 - Aug 20 with 540 views | GixerJack |
| Attendances dipping on 04:54 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
Isn’t that the opposite of what’s happening?
I’m stating the obvious fact and because it’s not palatable, others are trying to find nuances in the fact.
Here, I’m the one saying the grass is green. |
Aye, but what shade of green? |  | | |
| Attendances dipping on 10:12 - Aug 20 with 536 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 09:45 - Aug 20 by jack247 |
The economy as in cost of existing. Fuel for transport, to heat homes in winter, food. It won’t affect everyone, but people on tight budgets will have choices to make.
If the point you’re making is that a team doing well is going to have more floating support than when it is struggling, then nobody is going to dispute that. Not everyone is a hardcore fan. Some of the people having to make choices will be more inclined to choose football if they think we are going to win.
What most people are disputing is the assertion that has happened, after two games, which have seen higher attendances than the first two last season.
I thought you were talking averages? If not, 240 down over 2 games in the summer holidays. No different to 120 average, still considerably less than 1% of the attendance figure.
Are we saying Blackburn specifically, or a team that exceeds expectations?
If you want a stick to beat Russell Martin with, there are plenty. This isn’t one at the moment. |
But that wasn’t the point some were making. Some were denying attendances were down, of which the economy doesn’t come into it.
As I said, if the football was worth watching and was actually successful then our attendances would be up regardless of the economy. If we were promoted last season then we would have sold 16,000 ST’s and people would be clamouring for the remaining.
“the first two last season” isn’t a valid mathematical comparison, it’s a selective one. I am using full data sets from last season and this season and will continue to do so.
Either way you look at it from a mathematical point of view, attendances are down. Why they are down can be disputed but history tells us the better we do the more people we have through the gate regardless of economy.
You say people don’t dispute this, but they do. Much of this thread is people disagreeing with these simple facts.
As for Blackburn, they are the only ones off the top of my head that are likely to have a better season this season than last, but I’m open to suggestion. [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 10:13]
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| Attendances dipping on 10:23 - Aug 20 with 524 views | Badlands |
16,317
Is the attendance for our third home game last season
Hull … 11th September.
That's fewer than for Blackburn last year and more than for Millwall.
While attendances are down on pre-pandemic levels so far this season they are up on last.
If I am wrong please show me the figures. |  |
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| Attendances dipping on 10:35 - Aug 20 with 507 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 10:23 - Aug 20 by Badlands |
16,317
Is the attendance for our third home game last season
Hull … 11th September.
That's fewer than for Blackburn last year and more than for Millwall.
While attendances are down on pre-pandemic levels so far this season they are up on last.
If I am wrong please show me the figures. |
That’s just selective comparison though, it’s mathematically pointless.
You take full data sets so thought and bias is removed, otherwise it’s confirmation bias.
Full average last season vs full average this season, it really isn’t that difficult.
The full data set this season is two games, after today it will be three. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 10:41 - Aug 20 with 500 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 10:12 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
But that wasn’t the point some were making. Some were denying attendances were down, of which the economy doesn’t come into it.
As I said, if the football was worth watching and was actually successful then our attendances would be up regardless of the economy. If we were promoted last season then we would have sold 16,000 ST’s and people would be clamouring for the remaining.
“the first two last season” isn’t a valid mathematical comparison, it’s a selective one. I am using full data sets from last season and this season and will continue to do so.
Either way you look at it from a mathematical point of view, attendances are down. Why they are down can be disputed but history tells us the better we do the more people we have through the gate regardless of economy.
You say people don’t dispute this, but they do. Much of this thread is people disagreeing with these simple facts.
As for Blackburn, they are the only ones off the top of my head that are likely to have a better season this season than last, but I’m open to suggestion. [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 10:13]
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The attendances are down by 240 across 2 games attended by nearly 33,000 people, during holidays. That’s minuscule.
The first two last season is more valid than deliberately skewing figures to include teams with big travelling support. We’ve got Cardiff and Sunderland at home in October. I’m willing to bet that will be one of our highest average attendance months, regardless of how we are playing.
You can’t compare exactly, but the most accurate in my view would be against the same teams last season. Up in one, down on the other, down by a tiny amount overall. Certainly not worth getting excited about.
I was going to suggest Championship average, but Norwich and Sunderland will probably do a lot more for attendances than the teams they replaced.
There’s no point me betting against a team who does better than expected being less impacted by people having to choose between football and other luxuries. I agree with you on that point.
Where we disagree is that I do think overall attendances across the EFL (and PL actually will be impacted). I don’t think we’ve seen any significant reduction in attendance in Swansea in the first couple of games (in fact we’re slightly up compared to sane time last year). I do expect to see less people at games in the winter months. Across the board, not just here. | | | |
| Attendances dipping on 10:49 - Aug 20 with 491 views | GixerJack |
| Attendances dipping on 10:23 - Aug 20 by Badlands |
16,317
Is the attendance for our third home game last season
Hull … 11th September.
That's fewer than for Blackburn last year and more than for Millwall.
While attendances are down on pre-pandemic levels so far this season they are up on last.
If I am wrong please show me the figures. |
Isn’t this a non topic because attendances have always fluctuated? There are lots of different reasons for it. Attendance is down from PL days, is anyone really surprised? Attendance is down compared to pre-pandemic, again is anyone surprised? I would imagine that attendance is down at the majority of events for lots of different reasons | | | |
| Attendances dipping on 10:55 - Aug 20 with 486 views | STID2017 |
| Attendances dipping on 10:49 - Aug 20 by GixerJack |
Isn’t this a non topic because attendances have always fluctuated? There are lots of different reasons for it. Attendance is down from PL days, is anyone really surprised? Attendance is down compared to pre-pandemic, again is anyone surprised? I would imagine that attendance is down at the majority of events for lots of different reasons |
I know people who cannot attend every game anymore because their family circumstances have changed even though they have a season ticket.
As you say a myriad of reasons, not all football related.
Unless we are pushing for the top cant see too many coming forward to fill the gaps |  |
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| Attendances dipping on 11:10 - Aug 20 with 475 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 10:41 - Aug 20 by jack247 |
The attendances are down by 240 across 2 games attended by nearly 33,000 people, during holidays. That’s minuscule.
The first two last season is more valid than deliberately skewing figures to include teams with big travelling support. We’ve got Cardiff and Sunderland at home in October. I’m willing to bet that will be one of our highest average attendance months, regardless of how we are playing.
You can’t compare exactly, but the most accurate in my view would be against the same teams last season. Up in one, down on the other, down by a tiny amount overall. Certainly not worth getting excited about.
I was going to suggest Championship average, but Norwich and Sunderland will probably do a lot more for attendances than the teams they replaced.
There’s no point me betting against a team who does better than expected being less impacted by people having to choose between football and other luxuries. I agree with you on that point.
Where we disagree is that I do think overall attendances across the EFL (and PL actually will be impacted). I don’t think we’ve seen any significant reduction in attendance in Swansea in the first couple of games (in fact we’re slightly up compared to sane time last year). I do expect to see less people at games in the winter months. Across the board, not just here. |
Or over a thousand on average compared to last season.
Nothing is being skewed be that deliberately or otherwise. It’s a full data set devoid of thought or selection, it’s a complete set.
Last season and this season are data sets. Once you start picking and choosing then you are simply doing to do achieve a result you want rather than the result reality tells us.
As I said, if we were doing better then attendances would be higher and the economy suddenly wouldn’t be an issue again. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 11:12 - Aug 20 with 472 views | Whiterockin |
| Attendances dipping on 11:10 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
Or over a thousand on average compared to last season.
Nothing is being skewed be that deliberately or otherwise. It’s a full data set devoid of thought or selection, it’s a complete set.
Last season and this season are data sets. Once you start picking and choosing then you are simply doing to do achieve a result you want rather than the result reality tells us.
As I said, if we were doing better then attendances would be higher and the economy suddenly wouldn’t be an issue again. |
Wrong thread [Post edited 20 Aug 2022 11:13]
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| Attendances dipping on 11:17 - Aug 20 with 465 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 11:10 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
Or over a thousand on average compared to last season.
Nothing is being skewed be that deliberately or otherwise. It’s a full data set devoid of thought or selection, it’s a complete set.
Last season and this season are data sets. Once you start picking and choosing then you are simply doing to do achieve a result you want rather than the result reality tells us.
As I said, if we were doing better then attendances would be higher and the economy suddenly wouldn’t be an issue again. |
Last seasons Milwall and Blackburn home games both had around 1000 less than the whole seasons average.
Last seasons opening two fixtures had over 1000 less than the whole seasons average. | | | |
| Attendances dipping on 11:23 - Aug 20 with 460 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 11:17 - Aug 20 by jack247 |
Last seasons Milwall and Blackburn home games both had around 1000 less than the whole seasons average.
Last seasons opening two fixtures had over 1000 less than the whole seasons average. |
Meaning what? | |
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| Attendances dipping on 11:25 - Aug 20 with 456 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 11:23 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
Meaning what? |
Meaning there’s nothing to see here.
If you compare using any metric that doesn’t involve sides with larger travelling support that haven’t visited us yet this season, there’s no tangible difference. | | | |
| Attendances dipping on 11:29 - Aug 20 with 452 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Attendances dipping on 11:25 - Aug 20 by jack247 |
Meaning there’s nothing to see here.
If you compare using any metric that doesn’t involve sides with larger travelling support that haven’t visited us yet this season, there’s no tangible difference. |
Ah right, yeah your point doesn’t mean that.
I can only keep going back to complete data sets. It’s very significant.
The suggestions made regarding comparing 2 games vs 2 games is mathematically flawed and certainly goes no way to disproving the weight of evidence brought forward by complete data sets.
As it’s stands we are 1000+ down on average from last season, something I’m pretty sure will continue.
If there is nothing to see here then the bet is there that there will be no such dip. But I’m sure nobody will be taking it. | |
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| Attendances dipping on 11:41 - Aug 20 with 436 views | jack247 |
| Attendances dipping on 11:29 - Aug 20 by Dr_Parnassus |
Ah right, yeah your point doesn’t mean that.
I can only keep going back to complete data sets. It’s very significant.
The suggestions made regarding comparing 2 games vs 2 games is mathematically flawed and certainly goes no way to disproving the weight of evidence brought forward by complete data sets.
As it’s stands we are 1000+ down on average from last season, something I’m pretty sure will continue.
If there is nothing to see here then the bet is there that there will be no such dip. But I’m sure nobody will be taking it. |
Comparing 2 games with the equivalent 2 games, be that it terms in of opposition or stage of the season is a lot less flawed than comparing 2 games with 23.
We have done that, we have also compared both from last season to the seasons average.
You would not be making this point had we started against Norwich and Sunderland.
In 21 home games time, you may well have a point. At the moment, it just comes across as an attempt to discredit the manager. | | | |
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