| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... 19:56 - Aug 6 with 6464 views | Kerouac |
...when we have possession our shape looks like this;
------------------------------ Fisher ------------------------------
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------------------------------ Wood ------------------------------
-------- Naughton -------------------------- Darling ----------
-------------- Ntcham ---- Fulton ------ Grimes -------------
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Latibeaudiere ----- Obafemi ---- Piroe -------- Manning
- With the emphasis on possession one of Fulton or Grimes inevitably has to drop into the backline to help the defenders keep the ball.
- The other shows himself, dropping short to make a ball into midfield possible.
- Ntcham usually pulls wider, trying to find some space but usually he gets marked or the defender on the ball rejects playing a risky cross field ball to him which might get intercepted and instead goes for the safe options of Grimes or Fulton.
- Grimes too be fair, whenever he gets enough space to turn and bring forward, plays with his head up looking for a good pass...but usually there aren't any good passes on BECAUSE NOBODY IS IN THE SPACE BETWEEN THE LINES...IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLAY CRISP, FORWARD, PASSES THAT TAKE DEFENDERS OUT OF THE GAME IF NOBODY IS MAKING THE RUNS INTO THE SPACE TO RECEIVE THEM.
So, why do we have this problem?
We have this problem because our clown of a 'manager' insists that our "wing-backs" ...
(who are actually centre-backs playing as wingers at this stage...he got shot of Bidwell, played Manning at Centre-back for a season, and refuses to give the likes of Joseph or Garrick a shot at playing wide right...he also brought in an extra centre-half, when we already have Bennett, Latibeaudiere, Cooper, instead of prioritising a right wing-back)
...play high up in the attacking line, as wingers.
There is always a line of 4...this is not an accident, it is regimented, so why?
Martin believes that by having that line of 4 high up the pitch, it forces the opposition to have 4 flat defenders marking them.
The clown believes that this creates space in midfield for our players and their possession game.
In reality of course, all this tactic does is hamstring the likes of Grimes (who has nobody playing between the lines to play to) and ensures that we play keep ball between the centre-backs and the midfield, out to the "wing-back" who is tracking back from his high position to offer the pass...only when we look in trouble...and of course plays it back to a defender again...as he has a full-back up his arse, not allowing him to turn.
The only way this system could make any sense whatsoever is if the midfield and the defence were given licence to play long balls over the top every now and again...so our high front 4 could scrap for it, get a cross in, win a corner, even score god damnit(!)...but it is very clear that they are not given permission to do that (they never play those long balls behind the full-back or into the channel, ever!) because they are being instructed to keep ball until the opposition gets tired.
The only players I saw making a run in-between the lines today was Fulton...who has the brains to see that this is necessary (God love him, understands more about the game than his clown of a manager) and Patterson, when he came off the bench....and when they made the runs, if the ball didn't come (because a centre-back was on the ball and didn't fancy himself to pick that pass out) these players also ended up in the front line, of now 5 players.
With 4/5 players high in a line (all marked) the opposition need only leave 1 defensive midfielder to marshall a ton of empty space, and everyone else gets to sit in (closing passing lanes) and pressing...eventually our 3 centre-backs and 2 midfielders cough up the ball...this is inevitable, it is not individual players' fault...at this point the opposition counter attack us at pace.
When Wood/Darling/Naughton/Grimes had the ball, facing a chasm of space...and ordered not to play long balls...the only option they have to create anything is too drive at the opposition at pace, beat a man, drag another defender to them and then give...but the players are clearly terrified of doing this because they know that the moment they lose the ball they are allowing the opposition in against our 3 defenders (with the wing-backs playing so high)...this is where the goals against come from and good players, like Grimes, get castigated by idiot, know nothing, fans who hold them accountable instead of the clown we call our manager.
Martin is not averse to talking about individuals' 'mistakes' in post match interviews either...as we all have to keep pretending that the problem is that he hasn't got good enough players instead of his stupid, brain dead, deluded tactics.
Russell Martin, if you're reading, learn something and make changes or prepare for your coaching career to come to an end. You are fast becoming a joke across the football league. |  |
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| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 11:02 - Aug 7 with 1973 views | Brynmill_Jack |
He has no system at all. It’s just fancy speak for fear based possession football that produces nothing. |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 12:03 - Aug 7 with 1923 views | Algorfajack |
| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 21:16 - Aug 6 by KeithHaynes |
After two games. |
It's not 'just' two games though is it Keith, it has been all last season as well. |  |
| Prediction league winner 2016-2017 aka llanedeyrnjack |
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| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 12:48 - Aug 7 with 1889 views | Catullus |
| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 22:32 - Aug 6 by jasper_T |
Can't agree with "nothing wrong with what Martin is aiming for" at all. There's a reason so many opposition managers say "Swansea give you chances other teams don't". It's not a square pegs issue, it's systemic. We deliberately keep hold of the ball without stretching the game or moving the opposition about, creating few chances or tiring out opposition players. We push defenders into areas where they can't defend when we turn it over (no team in the world doesn't give away possession now and then). It's a mess of contradictory ideas that individually might sound clever, but we've had plenty of evidence now that it's not going to work.
To Martin's credit he tried in preseason to come up with something better, but Charlton ripped his 4-3-3 a new one after a few lukewarm outings against lesser opposition and he's reverted to what he knows (League One mediocrity?).
Darling looks a soft touch defensively from the two competitive games so far. Sorinola clearly not good enough. Fisher had a good game against Rotherham but... |
This, I think, is the best summing up of where we are. The worst thing abut it is (although Jasper only hints at it) is that martin tried new formations but they were even worse which tells me that he really doesn't have a clue.
He is still learning whereas he seems to think his way is the only way. He has to accept that what he is trying to do is a busted flush and, given that we have no attacking wide players of any note, go to a formation that our squad can actually manage, that is to say we need to put players in their best positions. No more square pegs in round holes.
I don't think I have all the answers and indeed, I could easily be totally clueless but I gave Martin a fair crack, in my opinion. I had doubts by the end of ast season and yes, even after just two games things seem to be even worse.
Personally I'd be going 4-3-1-2 with the midfield 3 of (because we have little choice Grimes, Fulton and Allen (when fit) with Paterson in behind our 2 strikers (and I'd tell Paterson to up his game because Congreve is coming on if he's quiet even if only 10 mins in) and I'd have Manning and Naughton at full back with Cabango and Darling at CB. And YES, I'd give the defence a simple instruction, unless there is an obvious pass on, look longerna dour fron t 3 need to make runs. |  |
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| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 14:15 - Aug 7 with 1840 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 08:36 - Aug 7 by PawelAbbott |
We haven't got any full backs and we haven't got any wingers.
We would have a back 4 of centre backs with 2 defensive midfielders ahead of them |
Exactly my point.
We just needed to recruit to the proven modern system that served us so well.
God only knows how the pieces of the jigsaw picked were ever going to fit together as a cohesive unit.
Its like a lucky dip style of recruitment.
🤦â€â™‚ï¸ ….. and the Academy must be as confused as the rest of us. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 14:24 - Aug 7 with 1841 views | jasper_T |
| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 09:33 - Aug 7 by dobjack2 |
I can't believe that the plan is to deliberately keep hold of the ball without stretching the game or moving the opposition about, creating few chances and not tiring out opposition players. That would be madness.
I agree that is what happens on the pitch when we are so slow that we allow teams to continually reset, don't have people moving off the ball or players don't have the ability/confidence/options to make a progressive pass. It becomes possession for the sake of possession rather than having a purpose or plan.
It's only two games, but this time with the benefit of a preseason. I don't think that he can play what he wants to play with the players he has or can afford. One thing that did concern me when he came here was the number of bookings that his central midfielders at MK Dons we're picking up, presumably stopping counters.
As you correctly point out he tried 4-3-3 and it didn't work against Charlton. Does he keep on with plan A but hope for new faces and that we can play it better?
The crunch will come after the window closes. I always wondered whether Cooper wanted to play the way we did or was pragmatic based on trying to get the best out of what he had. |
It's deliberate that we keep hold of the ball. It's deliberate that we overload/congest the central midfield area. It's deliberate that we advance the wingbacks as much as possible to force opposition wide players back. These are aspects of his tactical approach he has specifically talked about, and are clear to anyone watching us play.
So if you ask Martin if the objective is "creating few chances and not tiring out opposition players" of course he'll say no, that would be madness, but the combined effect of all the things he does say we're attempting is exactly that. Our wide players are out of the game and even when we played a back 4 the fullbacks were stepping into the central third, making us very narrow on the ball and easy to set up a block against. | | | |
| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 14:47 - Aug 7 with 1826 views | dobjack2 |
| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 14:24 - Aug 7 by jasper_T |
It's deliberate that we keep hold of the ball. It's deliberate that we overload/congest the central midfield area. It's deliberate that we advance the wingbacks as much as possible to force opposition wide players back. These are aspects of his tactical approach he has specifically talked about, and are clear to anyone watching us play.
So if you ask Martin if the objective is "creating few chances and not tiring out opposition players" of course he'll say no, that would be madness, but the combined effect of all the things he does say we're attempting is exactly that. Our wide players are out of the game and even when we played a back 4 the fullbacks were stepping into the central third, making us very narrow on the ball and easy to set up a block against. |
Don't disagree with you. To get anything out of such a system surely the ball needs to be moved more quickly out wide with runners then giving options. However for that to happen our wide players need to be in the game.
Otherwise as you say it is straightforward for teams to set up a block and look to counter quickly when we lose possession. | | | |
| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 17:06 - Aug 7 with 1769 views | Catullus |
| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 14:47 - Aug 7 by dobjack2 |
Don't disagree with you. To get anything out of such a system surely the ball needs to be moved more quickly out wide with runners then giving options. However for that to happen our wide players need to be in the game.
Otherwise as you say it is straightforward for teams to set up a block and look to counter quickly when we lose possession. |
It needs to be moved more quickly everywhere and we need more players to make the runs, not just the wide players. Oba and Piroe need more movement.
To be fair Piroe was moving yesterday and we were trying to get the ball to him but it was so slow the oppo just so easiy marked him out. | |
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| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 22:40 - Aug 7 with 1715 views | PawelAbbott |
We have a team that, with the right manager, should be competing for the top 6. There is a decent side there. We aren't losing games We are giving them away.
How many games is he to be given? 2 is too soon, but 10 is too many. By the time we bring someone in then a top 6 finish is a tough ask.
If we are on 1 point after 5. Then he has to go | | | |
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| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 09:29 - Aug 8 with 1647 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 22:40 - Aug 7 by PawelAbbott |
We have a team that, with the right manager, should be competing for the top 6. There is a decent side there. We aren't losing games We are giving them away.
How many games is he to be given? 2 is too soon, but 10 is too many. By the time we bring someone in then a top 6 finish is a tough ask.
If we are on 1 point after 5. Then he has to go |
It looked to me that the players had just had enough. You're right, with our players you'd definitely say they were capable of top 6. Go 4-4-2 and use Joseph on the left and get one of the other youngsters on the right. | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 10:22 - Aug 8 with 1633 views | onehunglow |
| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 09:29 - Aug 8 by Brynmill_Jack |
It looked to me that the players had just had enough. You're right, with our players you'd definitely say they were capable of top 6. Go 4-4-2 and use Joseph on the left and get one of the other youngsters on the right. |
Joseph is quick and physical as is Garrick.that both are marginalised says it all.
I’m expecting whole sale changes for Blackpool | |
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| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 12:45 - Aug 8 with 1595 views | Badlands |
Last night I was talking with a Bacau supporter about teams that put 11 players behind the ball and how difficult it is to break down. He reckons he watched them play one game where the opposition parked the bus to such an extent that his side had a mini 5 a'side in their own half. I'lll take his word for it.
But, if teams do camp 11 players in their own half and ignoring the jeering should we be holding a training session in our own half to drag the opposition forward? One problem we face is that sending 7 outfield players forward just crowds an already crowded area. Be patient but entertaining while embarrassing the opposition. |  |
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| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 17:36 - Aug 8 with 1540 views | Catullus |
| Why Russell Martin's "System" is inherently flawed... on 12:45 - Aug 8 by Badlands |
Last night I was talking with a Bacau supporter about teams that put 11 players behind the ball and how difficult it is to break down. He reckons he watched them play one game where the opposition parked the bus to such an extent that his side had a mini 5 a'side in their own half. I'lll take his word for it.
But, if teams do camp 11 players in their own half and ignoring the jeering should we be holding a training session in our own half to drag the opposition forward? One problem we face is that sending 7 outfield players forward just crowds an already crowded area. Be patient but entertaining while embarrassing the opposition. |
Good managers can find a way. But when the plan they use isnt working, good managers make changes.
Martin couldn't find his way to Rossi's from the West stand. He'd insist on going via the M25 and keep on going around until he saw Rossi's. | |
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