| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders 06:12 - May 20 with 25091 views | davman |
Jeez, the football world is f-d up again. There are laws in place for encroaching on the field of play and what happened this week explains exactly why.
Sharp had no time to react to the high vis fat cannonball attacker, who has rightly been convicted and no doubt Viera and McBurnie will get some form of punishment. But Viera and McB's "victims" will get off Scott free even though they are law breakers by just being there. Getting on the pitch is one thing, but if you act like a massive weapon when you are on there, you should have every legal order thrown at you.
Loads of people think it's just an innocent laugh pitch invading, but I'd imagine that, with the percentage of idiots that live amongst us, it is probably really frightening for both sets of players and staff. After all, no pitch invasion, no provocation and no punishment for Viera and Mr. Completescotsname.
I hope they chuck the book at Forest and Everton and threaten them with a behind closed doors game for letting that happen. Disgraceful. |  |
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| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 10:09 - May 20 with 2706 views | BostonR |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 09:58 - May 20 by daveB |
problem with that is away fans haven't been the problem in the games this week, been all the home fans going on |
What you see is all these home fan morons making a sprint towards the away fans to goad them. As I said earlier, our country is one angry basket case at the moment. |  | | |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 10:19 - May 20 with 2650 views | PeterHucker |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 10:01 - May 20 by Northernr |
No I think he means, hypothetically, QPR fans could get tickets to a chelsea game, run on the pitch, and fck them over for a behind closed doors game. At least that's how I read it. |
That’s a cracking idea, which game are we doing it? |  | | |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 10:23 - May 20 with 2622 views | E17hoop |
As a complete aside, the speed the guy who attacked Sharp was dealt with just proves the system can speed up if it is politically expedient to do so. Shame it can't work that quickly for the victims of sexual assault and other less public personal injury crimes. |  |
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| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 10:26 - May 20 with 2593 views | loftboy |
I’ve e still not forgotten or forgiven the numpties that ran on from the school end after the Leeds game 2011 who prevented the Lao of honour from reaching us in th west paddocks. |  |
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| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 10:27 - May 20 with 2582 views | Northernr |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 10:23 - May 20 by E17hoop |
As a complete aside, the speed the guy who attacked Sharp was dealt with just proves the system can speed up if it is politically expedient to do so. Shame it can't work that quickly for the victims of sexual assault and other less public personal injury crimes. |
I actually thought that should have been referred up to Crown for a stiffer sentence. |  | | |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 10:35 - May 20 with 2541 views | daveB |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 10:01 - May 20 by Northernr |
No I think he means, hypothetically, QPR fans could get tickets to a chelsea game, run on the pitch, and fck them over for a behind closed doors game. At least that's how I read it. |
Oh right, yeah that would be funny but you'd think unlikely to happen |  | | |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 10:53 - May 20 with 2460 views | davman |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 08:32 - May 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
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... and aside from the tweeting to Clinton Baptiste that this was him and the other light hearted "go on, Doris" messages, this is absolutely unacceptable and abhorrent in my eyes. She should get a massive (life time?) ban for that. It is exactly the same when our fan picked up Jude's flag to poke the lino. Stupid. | |
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| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 11:38 - May 20 with 2286 views | LythamR |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 10:27 - May 20 by Northernr |
I actually thought that should have been referred up to Crown for a stiffer sentence. |
absolutely. if you only get 24 weeks for that its hardly going to act as a deterrent for those just wanting to have a bit of a dance around.
it would have been very easy for Sharp to have suffered very serious damage or even death if he had been caught at a slightly different angle. I would have tried to see him done for attempted murder, even if they couldnt make it stick it would send a signal.
The recent pitch invasions remind me a bit of the mass beer throwing during the World Cup / Euros. first time probably mostly spontaneous Joy but after that it was pre meditated copy catting round half the local pubs in the country with people itching to throw a pint just because. |  | | |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 11:41 - May 20 with 2267 views | The_Beast1976 |
Anyone who runs on to the pitch = mandatory fine of £250k with an order that your employer pay it directly from your weekly/monthly pay at a level which puts you below the poverty line (which will put many of them below the poverty line for the rest of their lives). Fcuk em. |  | | |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 11:46 - May 20 with 2267 views | NorthantsHoop |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 11:38 - May 20 by LythamR |
absolutely. if you only get 24 weeks for that its hardly going to act as a deterrent for those just wanting to have a bit of a dance around.
it would have been very easy for Sharp to have suffered very serious damage or even death if he had been caught at a slightly different angle. I would have tried to see him done for attempted murder, even if they couldnt make it stick it would send a signal.
The recent pitch invasions remind me a bit of the mass beer throwing during the World Cup / Euros. first time probably mostly spontaneous Joy but after that it was pre meditated copy catting round half the local pubs in the country with people itching to throw a pint just because. |
I know it is probably a bit dramatic, but with digital tickets etc, is there anyway to introduce facial recognition related to memberships and all tickets purchased.Cameras set up to monitor field of play and invasions could then be retrospectively looked at and appropriate bans and fines could be issued en masse to those not caught doing it at the game, might be a deterent. Probably all too expensive and time consuming. |  | | |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 11:50 - May 20 with 2238 views | Northernr |
Another good example of the different demographics in our support and which bit of the internet they reside in though.
Seems that this board is in almost universal agreement that these pitch invasions are somewhere in the vicinity of needless, dangerous, irritating, performative and need to be stopped, with some pretty harsh and draconian suggestions for how.
See how that goes for you with QPR fans on Twitter.
Few years ago we had Birmingham last home game and H&F Council, with whom relations are not good as we know, had written to the club saying if they didn't do more to stop the "traditional end of season pitch invasion" then they would consider revoking licences on alcohol, making us play with a reduced capacity at future games etc. Lee Hoos asked David Fraser and myself if we could hammer this point in our pre-match content, which I was happy to do 1) because there was already a bit about the match preview on it and 2) because it does my head in as well. I'm still bitter the Championship trophy never made it around to our bit of the ground because people who'd already seen it then felt able to invade the pitch and deny the rest of us. Twitter reaction was basically "fck off", that it's tradition, that it's just kids having fun, that the club could afford the fine etc etc. | | | |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 11:53 - May 20 with 2212 views | Mick_S |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 08:32 - May 20 by BazzaInTheLoft |
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The kid is a little charmer, isn’t he? |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 11:59 - May 20 with 2186 views | timeforheroes |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 11:46 - May 20 by NorthantsHoop |
I know it is probably a bit dramatic, but with digital tickets etc, is there anyway to introduce facial recognition related to memberships and all tickets purchased.Cameras set up to monitor field of play and invasions could then be retrospectively looked at and appropriate bans and fines could be issued en masse to those not caught doing it at the game, might be a deterent. Probably all too expensive and time consuming. |
Sounds like Thatcher's ID card. I'm very wary of the use of minority and fringe behaviour to clamp down on civil liberties and think this should be avoided at all costs.
Wary of turning this into a political thread so will tread carefully but- what changed in the past 10 years which makes these actions so much more commonplace? Why are social bonds weaker and people considering this kind of behaviour more acceptable? Is it COVID? Social media? Exponential growth in income inequality which over a large sample size has been shown to accompany civil unrest and increases in violence? https://news.stanford.edu/2017/01/24/stanford-historian-uncovers-grim-correlatio |  | | |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 12:10 - May 20 with 2150 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 11:46 - May 20 by NorthantsHoop |
I know it is probably a bit dramatic, but with digital tickets etc, is there anyway to introduce facial recognition related to memberships and all tickets purchased.Cameras set up to monitor field of play and invasions could then be retrospectively looked at and appropriate bans and fines could be issued en masse to those not caught doing it at the game, might be a deterent. Probably all too expensive and time consuming. |
Don’t give them any ideas!
It’s not surprising that all parts of society are now sinking to the levels set by those in charge is it. Politicians, financial institutions, the legal sector, authorities, etc, etc, etc are hardly setting a good example are they? I don’t think allowing them even greater control over us is very good idea personally. |  |
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| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 12:13 - May 20 with 2132 views | LythamR |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 11:53 - May 20 by Mick_S |
The kid is a little charmer, isn’t he? |
yes an almost certain contributor to future crime statistics and hardly surprising given the education he is being given by those around him | | | |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 12:16 - May 20 with 2120 views | Northernr |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 11:59 - May 20 by timeforheroes |
Sounds like Thatcher's ID card. I'm very wary of the use of minority and fringe behaviour to clamp down on civil liberties and think this should be avoided at all costs.
Wary of turning this into a political thread so will tread carefully but- what changed in the past 10 years which makes these actions so much more commonplace? Why are social bonds weaker and people considering this kind of behaviour more acceptable? Is it COVID? Social media? Exponential growth in income inequality which over a large sample size has been shown to accompany civil unrest and increases in violence? https://news.stanford.edu/2017/01/24/stanford-historian-uncovers-grim-correlatio |
There were always pitch invasions, the difference now for me is this attitude that it's a chance to get at the opposition players and fans, rather than celebrate. My thoughts from travelling around the country with QPR and Hull FC are...
- the country is angry, and divided. Much more than it was ten years ago. Everything is black and white, there's no grey area or compromise. Brexit, obviously, has exacerbated this. Whichever side of that argument you were on I'd be amazed if you disagree with me here. Politics moving away from the centre and more into very much more right v left. Nobody is willing to listen to anybody else's POV and take it on board. It's an angry, bitter, hostile, aggressive place to live. The team you're playing against isn't just the team you're playing against, they're an enemy, to be targeted and humiliated and threatened. As I said on another thread, you go to away games now and there are blocks of fans specifically as close to the away end as they can get, to spend the whole game goading you, threatening you, making outside and cut throat gestures at you, rather than watching the fcking game. I see it in small sided football as well. We moved from one Monday Night 5s league in Finsbury Park because of the violence and threats to another and it's made little difference - every other week you've got twts openly saying they're going to try and break your leg, or find you afterwards and "cut you" because... you're playing on the other team.
- everybody having a video camera on their phone is a pain in the ars. It encourages ever increasingly ridiculous, extreme behaviour, for the retweets and Insta likes and mega bantz. None of these pitch invasions are spontaneous moments of celebration - it's just performative rubbish. Forest the other night, three seconds after the full time whistle, twts mobbing steve cooper not to celebrate, but to get a blurry selfie of themselves with him. Wow, we might be back in the Premier League for the first time in 25 years, I'll celebrate after I've got this pic for the Gram.
- Post lockdown I think there's a proper "fck you" selfish attitude to the place. We collectively as a country did as we were told, sat in our homes for two years, and it's now turning out that this was possibly OTT, possibly unnecessary, possibly could have been done differently, and the people who forced it on us ignored the rules themselves regardless. So I think a lot of people have come out of it with an attitude of 'fck you, I'll do what I want now'. I've made two journeys into town this week and two back home for work/football - on two of those four journeys there has been somebody on the train playing music out loud (loud) on a bluetooth speaker. Does everybody else in the train want to listen to that? No. Do they care? Also no. Does anybody say anything? Do you want to risk a stabbing? I have some sympathy with the attitude TBF - not to the extent of running on a football pitch to thump Patrick Viera, or making the Northern Line listen to my MeatLoaf albums, but certainly my tolerance for anybody in authority - be it my boss, a football steward, a politician - telling me what I can and can't do is very greatly reduced now. And I count myself as quite sensible and level headed - if people who aren't like that feel the same, they you got a problem.
- The economy is obviously not good and getting worse. When people are having a tough time, they get bitter, and angry, and violent about it. Previous periods of extreme violence at football in this country have coincided with periods of economic strife generally.
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| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 12:18 - May 20 with 2085 views | stainrods_elbow |
I agree with Fat Frank Lampard. Let the fans have their moment, as long as everyone behaves themselves. Governments and football authorities can make stupid, reactionary, authoritarian moves like criminalising people for stepping onto a patch of football soil, but fans will always spill onto the pitch during euphoric moments, and it's part of footballing lore.
Posters here talking about putting up nets, fences and God know what else to pen us all in should have a word with themselves. Do they really want to go back to the dark, ugly days of the 1970s and have they learned nothing from Hillsborough, which occurred precisely because of fans being caged like animals? In this country, what's a lot more scary to me than a tiny handful of nutjobs butting football managers and slapping players is those who so identify with the oppression and dehumanisation of the peaceful football-supporting majority in the name of 'safety' they can't wait to see us all back under the yoke of our governors. And why should clubs, players and their supporters be punished with points deductions because of the unseemly misbehaviour of the odd oik? No one would make the Royal Opera House perform Verdi behind closed doors if someone threw a punch in the stalls.
That said, the isolated incidents with Viera and Sharp were nasty, I guess scary to some (and probably to them) and, of course, shouldn't happen in an ideal world. but football is dirty, tribal passion, not played and watched by angels in the clouds. However, those people can and have been identified, will doubtless be subject to draconian football bans, quite possibly imprisoned, and that should be enough for anybody. I'm not responsible for those hotheads, however, and for action to be taken against me or my club as a punitive compensation would be no different from a school detaining all its pupils because someone took a crap in the principal's office, i.e. juvenile, unjust, disproportionate and ridiculous.
In the other direction, for what it's worth, Cantona's transgression of the 'white line' between 'us' and 'them' was pure footballing theatre, and anyone who wasn't deeply entertained by it is a purer soul than me, while back in the day Brian Clough got lauded for slapping a fan after a game with the Rs and ended up meeting him for a kiss in front of the cameras! We had human perspective then, a healthier sense of performativity, and a more sane sense of proportion, whereas now everything is pored over and amplified by pundits, do-gooders, virtue-signallers and the hypermediation of Twa-tter. Personally, however, I enjoyed watching the Evertonians' celebrations, and I'd have been on the pitch myself at the end if it had been us. [Post edited 20 May 2022 12:54]
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| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 12:57 - May 20 with 1958 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 12:16 - May 20 by Northernr |
There were always pitch invasions, the difference now for me is this attitude that it's a chance to get at the opposition players and fans, rather than celebrate. My thoughts from travelling around the country with QPR and Hull FC are...
- the country is angry, and divided. Much more than it was ten years ago. Everything is black and white, there's no grey area or compromise. Brexit, obviously, has exacerbated this. Whichever side of that argument you were on I'd be amazed if you disagree with me here. Politics moving away from the centre and more into very much more right v left. Nobody is willing to listen to anybody else's POV and take it on board. It's an angry, bitter, hostile, aggressive place to live. The team you're playing against isn't just the team you're playing against, they're an enemy, to be targeted and humiliated and threatened. As I said on another thread, you go to away games now and there are blocks of fans specifically as close to the away end as they can get, to spend the whole game goading you, threatening you, making outside and cut throat gestures at you, rather than watching the fcking game. I see it in small sided football as well. We moved from one Monday Night 5s league in Finsbury Park because of the violence and threats to another and it's made little difference - every other week you've got twts openly saying they're going to try and break your leg, or find you afterwards and "cut you" because... you're playing on the other team.
- everybody having a video camera on their phone is a pain in the ars. It encourages ever increasingly ridiculous, extreme behaviour, for the retweets and Insta likes and mega bantz. None of these pitch invasions are spontaneous moments of celebration - it's just performative rubbish. Forest the other night, three seconds after the full time whistle, twts mobbing steve cooper not to celebrate, but to get a blurry selfie of themselves with him. Wow, we might be back in the Premier League for the first time in 25 years, I'll celebrate after I've got this pic for the Gram.
- Post lockdown I think there's a proper "fck you" selfish attitude to the place. We collectively as a country did as we were told, sat in our homes for two years, and it's now turning out that this was possibly OTT, possibly unnecessary, possibly could have been done differently, and the people who forced it on us ignored the rules themselves regardless. So I think a lot of people have come out of it with an attitude of 'fck you, I'll do what I want now'. I've made two journeys into town this week and two back home for work/football - on two of those four journeys there has been somebody on the train playing music out loud (loud) on a bluetooth speaker. Does everybody else in the train want to listen to that? No. Do they care? Also no. Does anybody say anything? Do you want to risk a stabbing? I have some sympathy with the attitude TBF - not to the extent of running on a football pitch to thump Patrick Viera, or making the Northern Line listen to my MeatLoaf albums, but certainly my tolerance for anybody in authority - be it my boss, a football steward, a politician - telling me what I can and can't do is very greatly reduced now. And I count myself as quite sensible and level headed - if people who aren't like that feel the same, they you got a problem.
- The economy is obviously not good and getting worse. When people are having a tough time, they get bitter, and angry, and violent about it. Previous periods of extreme violence at football in this country have coincided with periods of economic strife generally.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Spot on. Every word. |  |
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| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 13:03 - May 20 with 1935 views | slmrstid |
Interesting line about the economic strife bit. I do actually agree, and I wonder if the fact the difference between "haves" and "have nots" is also now so blatant it actually exacerbates the issue.
I mean just think of the fact you can now follow QPR players on social media, who share aspects of their private lives, and even for second division footballers you can see they are vastly more wealthy than most of us ever will be, adds to the attitudes of the people charging onto the pitch and seeing the opposing footballers as fair game because they have things they never will.
I mean thats just me speculating but... |  | | |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 13:06 - May 20 with 1928 views | Northernr |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 13:03 - May 20 by slmrstid |
Interesting line about the economic strife bit. I do actually agree, and I wonder if the fact the difference between "haves" and "have nots" is also now so blatant it actually exacerbates the issue.
I mean just think of the fact you can now follow QPR players on social media, who share aspects of their private lives, and even for second division footballers you can see they are vastly more wealthy than most of us ever will be, adds to the attitudes of the people charging onto the pitch and seeing the opposing footballers as fair game because they have things they never will.
I mean thats just me speculating but... |
Yeh as I posted I started thinking about that. I think certainly at the top end of the game there's an attitude that they're fair game, and can take it, in return for their £100k+ a week. | | | |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 13:07 - May 20 with 1927 views | Match82 |
We've got enough cameras now. $1000 fine and a season long ban for anyone going on the pitch. Use that fine to pay for the costs of investigating/enforcing who the perpetrators are. For each individual who can't be identified, charge the hosting club the money.
That will get the clubs committed to making sure the technology is there to capture offenders and you'd hope then make sure the offenders think twice. Always going to be some idiots who do it anyway but if you stop 95% then it makes following through on enforcing it for the other 5% that much easier. |  | | |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 13:13 - May 20 with 1882 views | ngbqpr |
I'm very involved in kids / youth football.
Someone at our local FA told me at Xmas they'd had more disciplinary incidents to deal with (parents, coaches, players - the lot) in the first half of this season than in the three seasons prior to covid put together. |  |
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| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 13:14 - May 20 with 1877 views | Northernr |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 13:13 - May 20 by ngbqpr |
I'm very involved in kids / youth football.
Someone at our local FA told me at Xmas they'd had more disciplinary incidents to deal with (parents, coaches, players - the lot) in the first half of this season than in the three seasons prior to covid put together. |
Is anybody here surprised at that?
You see it everywhere. | | | |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 13:23 - May 20 with 1824 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Viera, McBurnie, Sharp Pitch Invaders on 12:18 - May 20 by stainrods_elbow |
I agree with Fat Frank Lampard. Let the fans have their moment, as long as everyone behaves themselves. Governments and football authorities can make stupid, reactionary, authoritarian moves like criminalising people for stepping onto a patch of football soil, but fans will always spill onto the pitch during euphoric moments, and it's part of footballing lore.
Posters here talking about putting up nets, fences and God know what else to pen us all in should have a word with themselves. Do they really want to go back to the dark, ugly days of the 1970s and have they learned nothing from Hillsborough, which occurred precisely because of fans being caged like animals? In this country, what's a lot more scary to me than a tiny handful of nutjobs butting football managers and slapping players is those who so identify with the oppression and dehumanisation of the peaceful football-supporting majority in the name of 'safety' they can't wait to see us all back under the yoke of our governors. And why should clubs, players and their supporters be punished with points deductions because of the unseemly misbehaviour of the odd oik? No one would make the Royal Opera House perform Verdi behind closed doors if someone threw a punch in the stalls.
That said, the isolated incidents with Viera and Sharp were nasty, I guess scary to some (and probably to them) and, of course, shouldn't happen in an ideal world. but football is dirty, tribal passion, not played and watched by angels in the clouds. However, those people can and have been identified, will doubtless be subject to draconian football bans, quite possibly imprisoned, and that should be enough for anybody. I'm not responsible for those hotheads, however, and for action to be taken against me or my club as a punitive compensation would be no different from a school detaining all its pupils because someone took a crap in the principal's office, i.e. juvenile, unjust, disproportionate and ridiculous.
In the other direction, for what it's worth, Cantona's transgression of the 'white line' between 'us' and 'them' was pure footballing theatre, and anyone who wasn't deeply entertained by it is a purer soul than me, while back in the day Brian Clough got lauded for slapping a fan after a game with the Rs and ended up meeting him for a kiss in front of the cameras! We had human perspective then, a healthier sense of performativity, and a more sane sense of proportion, whereas now everything is pored over and amplified by pundits, do-gooders, virtue-signallers and the hypermediation of Twa-tter. Personally, however, I enjoyed watching the Evertonians' celebrations, and I'd have been on the pitch myself at the end if it had been us. [Post edited 20 May 2022 12:54]
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Bang on the money. The offenders have been dealt with, severely. It's sent out a clear message to anyone remotely thinking of doing the same.
Sadly there will always be a minority of morons that don't get it. That's no reason to punish the majority. Every weekend there are punch-ups at drinking holes up-and-down the country. A few idiots drink and drive. Some slap their partners around. Should we close bars and pubs forever? Of course not because the majority of people are decent folk who can enjoy a drink without resorting to mindless behaviour.
We have one life; it's short and, at times, challenging. Let's not take the fun out of it with needlessly draconian measures. |  | | |
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