| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning 00:27 - Oct 6 with 6609 views | AndyCole |
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Effective and Efficient Football = Winning. It's our business, to Win.
Effective = Doing the Right Things
Efficient = Doing The Right Things Well
Our US investors will be constantly monitoring our business model performance to gauge how we are doing against our competitors.
This year - we don't do the Right Things, to Win. Our manager seems unable to focus on doing the Right Things to Win a football match.
Last 2 years we were Highly Effective and Efficient, hence our massive relative achievements. Up there, nigh on Best In Class in this league.
This year we have spent unprecedented amounts. And yet we continue to be languishing with not very clever, highly ineffective, bottom quartile efficient. Hence we are hovering perilously just above the drop zone, by a thread. It ain't no coincidence.
This really ain't difficult.
Any organisation that wants to succeed, be up there as the Best In Class, needs to be the most Effective and the most Efficient.
Martine needs some help, he lacks focus. Lacks focus on winning. Lacks the ability to recognise Highly effective and Efficient football. Something the US Owners will be well versed in - Best In Class Investment.
(PS - global Advisory firms make billions from the advice above - let's hope Martin (and some of our twper followers) pay heed from this free advice - (though I know how far it will wash over the heads of the many)).
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| Pro free speech and alternative opinions -
Anti gang-bullying and poor modding thereof -
Will always make a stand against those who consistently choose to turn a blind eye |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 09:43 - Oct 6 with 3088 views | Thornburyswan |
Your points are valid but simplistic - for me RM is clearly working to a medium/long term vision for the club & must have been given the owners support to do that, he is willing to accept short term disappointments (in terms of results or winning if you prefer) provided the players keep working to the longer term vision. A much riskier strategy than the one you portray above but also one that could deliver significant progression IF it works.
The interesting bit is how much rope initially the fans & ultimately the owners give him on the way to this vision - definitely would not work at a lot of clubs. | | | |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 14:04 - Oct 6 with 3018 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
Mr Levien speaks this language and so does Mr Kaplan. He has $350 billion of other people's money managed in his funds to prove it. Enough money to cover the UK balance of payments deficit for several years.
Mr Silverstein another successful business man is more than familiar with Corporate governance, legal requirements and management best practice I would imagine.
Mr Silverstein flew over a couple of times and in coordination with Kaplan, Levien and Winter and perhaps assessed that Mr Cooper was not worth the salary he was demanding. Perhaps he assessed his management was not best practice not aligned to club principles and the clubs playing and back up resources were not fully utilised.
Kaplan is a turnaround specialist.. The last two season have been pragmatic 'patch up' seasons. Easing out the last remaining Premier league on legacy contracts and use elite loans while developing young prospects like Dhanda, Cabango, Cullen and the Cooper boys.
Th final push for promotion fizzled out with fatigued players and a lack of edge. At least 2 international forward players left after playing 15 minutes each and a promising loan play pretty much ignored. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 14:19 - Oct 6 with 3014 views | Chief |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 14:04 - Oct 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Mr Levien speaks this language and so does Mr Kaplan. He has $350 billion of other people's money managed in his funds to prove it. Enough money to cover the UK balance of payments deficit for several years.
Mr Silverstein another successful business man is more than familiar with Corporate governance, legal requirements and management best practice I would imagine.
Mr Silverstein flew over a couple of times and in coordination with Kaplan, Levien and Winter and perhaps assessed that Mr Cooper was not worth the salary he was demanding. Perhaps he assessed his management was not best practice not aligned to club principles and the clubs playing and back up resources were not fully utilised.
Kaplan is a turnaround specialist.. The last two season have been pragmatic 'patch up' seasons. Easing out the last remaining Premier league on legacy contracts and use elite loans while developing young prospects like Dhanda, Cabango, Cullen and the Cooper boys.
Th final push for promotion fizzled out with fatigued players and a lack of edge. At least 2 international forward players left after playing 15 minutes each and a promising loan play pretty much ignored. |
***RANDOM AMERICAN PROPAGANDA POST ON RANDOM THREAD*** |  |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 14:26 - Oct 6 with 3006 views | Chief |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 14:04 - Oct 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Mr Levien speaks this language and so does Mr Kaplan. He has $350 billion of other people's money managed in his funds to prove it. Enough money to cover the UK balance of payments deficit for several years.
Mr Silverstein another successful business man is more than familiar with Corporate governance, legal requirements and management best practice I would imagine.
Mr Silverstein flew over a couple of times and in coordination with Kaplan, Levien and Winter and perhaps assessed that Mr Cooper was not worth the salary he was demanding. Perhaps he assessed his management was not best practice not aligned to club principles and the clubs playing and back up resources were not fully utilised.
Kaplan is a turnaround specialist.. The last two season have been pragmatic 'patch up' seasons. Easing out the last remaining Premier league on legacy contracts and use elite loans while developing young prospects like Dhanda, Cabango, Cullen and the Cooper boys.
Th final push for promotion fizzled out with fatigued players and a lack of edge. At least 2 international forward players left after playing 15 minutes each and a promising loan play pretty much ignored. |
I'm sorry, which 2 international forward players showed promise while on loan?
Morris maybe but he got injured after a month. As did Arriola (although there was nothing promising about him), but you seem to have omitted those facts as it doesn't suit your narrative. | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 15:30 - Oct 6 with 2983 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 14:26 - Oct 6 by Chief |
I'm sorry, which 2 international forward players showed promise while on loan?
Morris maybe but he got injured after a month. As did Arriola (although there was nothing promising about him), but you seem to have omitted those facts as it doesn't suit your narrative. |
Up to your old tricks again I see. Misquote and ask questions based on the misquote. Then repeat and ask more questions. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 15:57 - Oct 6 with 2973 views | Badlands |
Is there no room in your appreciation of football for entertainment?
The reason Cooper and Monk were despised by so many fans, despite being 'effective and efficient' was their 1 - 0, 1 - 1 and 0 - 0 s were ar$e numbingly boring.
'This year we have spent unprecedented amounts.'!!! We have spent within our means as we did under Potter and Cooper. However, we did spend unprecedented amounts trying to buy 'efficient and effective' to stay in the PL ... it failed.
You also seem to think you are the level of 'global Advisory firms' who 'make billions from the advice above'. Why TF are you on here and not smiling the Caribbean?
ps Global advisory firms also see the benefit of building the brand in order to become 'efficient and effective'. Martin and management teams are stripping back almost 5 years of cul-de-sac systems.
Placing yourself intellectually above other fans and calling us 'twp' really does show you up for what you are. |  |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:13 - Oct 6 with 2962 views | Chief |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 15:30 - Oct 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Up to your old tricks again I see. Misquote and ask questions based on the misquote. Then repeat and ask more questions. |
I'm still waiting for you to back up yesterdays claim of misquoting.
I assume you're also incapable of showing this one too judging by your waffling stalling response with no actual content related to the topic itself? [Post edited 6 Oct 2021 16:13]
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:19 - Oct 6 with 2947 views | vetchonian |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 15:57 - Oct 6 by Badlands |
Is there no room in your appreciation of football for entertainment?
The reason Cooper and Monk were despised by so many fans, despite being 'effective and efficient' was their 1 - 0, 1 - 1 and 0 - 0 s were ar$e numbingly boring.
'This year we have spent unprecedented amounts.'!!! We have spent within our means as we did under Potter and Cooper. However, we did spend unprecedented amounts trying to buy 'efficient and effective' to stay in the PL ... it failed.
You also seem to think you are the level of 'global Advisory firms' who 'make billions from the advice above'. Why TF are you on here and not smiling the Caribbean?
ps Global advisory firms also see the benefit of building the brand in order to become 'efficient and effective'. Martin and management teams are stripping back almost 5 years of cul-de-sac systems.
Placing yourself intellectually above other fans and calling us 'twp' really does show you up for what you are. |
Im glad you mentioned entertsinment thus far we have won 2 games what were the scores?
1-0 I have also witnessed 3 nil nil draws at home the last 2 which were numbingly boring
PLease lets not confuse an increase in possesion and passing the ball aimlessly around without purpose as an improvent in our performances or entertainment value
People talk of givng MArtin time to "turn around " the 2 seasons of Cooper ball well he has succesfuly increased our possesion stats as we currently top that table an increase over that of Cooper BUT our attempts on goal, goals scored and points achieved has reduced.
My view is that Martin is obsessed with possesion as his stats at MKdons show. Yes I want to be entertained and see my team win just passing the ball aroundf is not etertaining, my concern is too many people are losing sight of waht football is what is the point of 70% possesion in a game if we come away with a 0-0 draw as we did Saturday that is the 4th 0-0 we have had already despite having a high ercetnage of possesion.Whilst the second half at Luton offered some entertainment can you honestly say these other matches have been filled with thrills?
SO Martins record is not much better than Cooper or Monk as he has managed only 2 wins and those were at 1-0 and by the team adapting a more pragmatic approach whilst under Marttinball we have mostly lost or had goaless draws.......thats entertainment! [Post edited 6 Oct 2021 16:27]
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 17:44 - Oct 6 with 2889 views | onehunglow |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:19 - Oct 6 by vetchonian |
Im glad you mentioned entertsinment thus far we have won 2 games what were the scores?
1-0 I have also witnessed 3 nil nil draws at home the last 2 which were numbingly boring
PLease lets not confuse an increase in possesion and passing the ball aimlessly around without purpose as an improvent in our performances or entertainment value
People talk of givng MArtin time to "turn around " the 2 seasons of Cooper ball well he has succesfuly increased our possesion stats as we currently top that table an increase over that of Cooper BUT our attempts on goal, goals scored and points achieved has reduced.
My view is that Martin is obsessed with possesion as his stats at MKdons show. Yes I want to be entertained and see my team win just passing the ball aroundf is not etertaining, my concern is too many people are losing sight of waht football is what is the point of 70% possesion in a game if we come away with a 0-0 draw as we did Saturday that is the 4th 0-0 we have had already despite having a high ercetnage of possesion.Whilst the second half at Luton offered some entertainment can you honestly say these other matches have been filled with thrills?
SO Martins record is not much better than Cooper or Monk as he has managed only 2 wins and those were at 1-0 and by the team adapting a more pragmatic approach whilst under Marttinball we have mostly lost or had goaless draws.......thats entertainment! [Post edited 6 Oct 2021 16:27]
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A. Men.
No sign to me of this new horizon of glorious football and success too.
We are beyond boring and comfort ourselves with the HOPE it gets better.
HOPE is all it is,there is no foundation at all for this . | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 18:43 - Oct 6 with 2894 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 16:19 - Oct 6 by vetchonian |
Im glad you mentioned entertsinment thus far we have won 2 games what were the scores?
1-0 I have also witnessed 3 nil nil draws at home the last 2 which were numbingly boring
PLease lets not confuse an increase in possesion and passing the ball aimlessly around without purpose as an improvent in our performances or entertainment value
People talk of givng MArtin time to "turn around " the 2 seasons of Cooper ball well he has succesfuly increased our possesion stats as we currently top that table an increase over that of Cooper BUT our attempts on goal, goals scored and points achieved has reduced.
My view is that Martin is obsessed with possesion as his stats at MKdons show. Yes I want to be entertained and see my team win just passing the ball aroundf is not etertaining, my concern is too many people are losing sight of waht football is what is the point of 70% possesion in a game if we come away with a 0-0 draw as we did Saturday that is the 4th 0-0 we have had already despite having a high ercetnage of possesion.Whilst the second half at Luton offered some entertainment can you honestly say these other matches have been filled with thrills?
SO Martins record is not much better than Cooper or Monk as he has managed only 2 wins and those were at 1-0 and by the team adapting a more pragmatic approach whilst under Marttinball we have mostly lost or had goaless draws.......thats entertainment! [Post edited 6 Oct 2021 16:27]
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Compared to Cooperball , yep afraid so, that's what's so damning. |  | | |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 20:04 - Oct 6 with 2869 views | Catullus |
What kind of fan continuously attacks the current management and tells lies to do so whilst praising the previous management?
We haven't spent unprecedented amounts, unprecendented was what we spent on Bony, twice, the second time being a 12 million fee and 100k per week. We haven't spent that much on all 9 of our new signings combined.
Nigh on best in class you say, well no. Best in class got automatic promotion, we came second in the second best in class competition. We were second by a very long way too, not even a shot on target.
Our business is to win, yes, agreed. But that is the business of every sports team. If we had been the most effective and efficient under Cooper we would be in the EPL now so ultimately, Cooper failed to live up to your hyperbolic description. Getting promoted to the EPL was a massive relative achievement, failing to win promotion is something we have done many, many times.
You seem to value your own opinion very highly, why haven't any global corporations snapped you up...hmmm, tough one! Maybe you should try politics, there's always more room there for people who misrepresent the facts. | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 21:27 - Oct 6 with 2853 views | vetchonian |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 18:43 - Oct 6 by Treforys_Jack |
Compared to Cooperball , yep afraid so, that's what's so damning. |
Really?
You obviously were not at the Millwall and Hull games......
Lets face it Cooper was disliked due to his roots....He is Keith Coopers son he who is a self confessed scummer fan and he is from the Scum region.....he is a dour personality......we watched the majority of his football on line without crowds no atmosphere.....if we had to endure some of the footnball of this season under the same conditions we would not be eulogising as some are.
Take time out to watch again the highlights of last season and compare with this seasons not a huge difference......it just seems better because
A there are crowds and atmosphere
B we hold onto the ball for longer periods but in reality our attempts on goal are no grrater in fact less.
Its all about opinions and we can all have those but realisitcally is it better?
It will be interesting to see how the season pans out I hope Martin gets it right
My concern ....people and MArtin talk of needing time to get it right yet already we have more possession than under our previous manager we top the table for that as did Martin in his previous job....BUT despite all this possession we have only 2 wins to show for it and 4 no score draws 3 of which were at home and a 3 -3 thriller.....Martin had a win percentage 0f 39% we currently have an 18% win rate I dont think Martin focuses on wins but more on possession...looking at the possesion table we are top with Sheffield Utd secon the next slots re taken up by the temas who are in the top 6 of the league table and the top side are not the next highest in the possession stats so that shows that having lots of possession necessarily means results but hey ho 77% of the fans on here believe so they must be right | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 23:36 - Oct 6 with 2824 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 21:27 - Oct 6 by vetchonian |
Really?
You obviously were not at the Millwall and Hull games......
Lets face it Cooper was disliked due to his roots....He is Keith Coopers son he who is a self confessed scummer fan and he is from the Scum region.....he is a dour personality......we watched the majority of his football on line without crowds no atmosphere.....if we had to endure some of the footnball of this season under the same conditions we would not be eulogising as some are.
Take time out to watch again the highlights of last season and compare with this seasons not a huge difference......it just seems better because
A there are crowds and atmosphere
B we hold onto the ball for longer periods but in reality our attempts on goal are no grrater in fact less.
Its all about opinions and we can all have those but realisitcally is it better?
It will be interesting to see how the season pans out I hope Martin gets it right
My concern ....people and MArtin talk of needing time to get it right yet already we have more possession than under our previous manager we top the table for that as did Martin in his previous job....BUT despite all this possession we have only 2 wins to show for it and 4 no score draws 3 of which were at home and a 3 -3 thriller.....Martin had a win percentage 0f 39% we currently have an 18% win rate I dont think Martin focuses on wins but more on possession...looking at the possesion table we are top with Sheffield Utd secon the next slots re taken up by the temas who are in the top 6 of the league table and the top side are not the next highest in the possession stats so that shows that having lots of possession necessarily means results but hey ho 77% of the fans on here believe so they must be right |
This is effectively a re run of the 'delaudrupificaction process' initiated by Garry Monk. Swansea had under the latter days of the great Dane had too much pointless possession and were not getting the ball quickly enough to Bony. They were losing physical battles.
Monk got this issue sorted and went more direct. Consequently Bony had a magnificent 2014 (or was it 2015? ) where he was the Premier leagues top scorer. When Bony left Eder was not up to it and Gomis was a different type of forward who liked to run onto and with the ball.
This argument is groundhog day. Monks first big win game was home to Cardiff 3-0. Dr P, Vetonian and OHL are promoters of 'Monkism'. The received wisdom was that this started the decline of Swansea city. I am not so sure. Monk lost £28m Bony and got Eder and Tabanou. I thought he forced out Laudrup's player but then re signed Hernandez for Leeds where he was worshipped. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 01:22 - Oct 7 with 2811 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 21:27 - Oct 6 by vetchonian |
Really?
You obviously were not at the Millwall and Hull games......
Lets face it Cooper was disliked due to his roots....He is Keith Coopers son he who is a self confessed scummer fan and he is from the Scum region.....he is a dour personality......we watched the majority of his football on line without crowds no atmosphere.....if we had to endure some of the footnball of this season under the same conditions we would not be eulogising as some are.
Take time out to watch again the highlights of last season and compare with this seasons not a huge difference......it just seems better because
A there are crowds and atmosphere
B we hold onto the ball for longer periods but in reality our attempts on goal are no grrater in fact less.
Its all about opinions and we can all have those but realisitcally is it better?
It will be interesting to see how the season pans out I hope Martin gets it right
My concern ....people and MArtin talk of needing time to get it right yet already we have more possession than under our previous manager we top the table for that as did Martin in his previous job....BUT despite all this possession we have only 2 wins to show for it and 4 no score draws 3 of which were at home and a 3 -3 thriller.....Martin had a win percentage 0f 39% we currently have an 18% win rate I dont think Martin focuses on wins but more on possession...looking at the possesion table we are top with Sheffield Utd secon the next slots re taken up by the temas who are in the top 6 of the league table and the top side are not the next highest in the possession stats so that shows that having lots of possession necessarily means results but hey ho 77% of the fans on here believe so they must be right |
Yes really !!
Please don't tell me how I think and I take it personally that you accuse me of disliking Cooper because of his roots. Can you find a single post of mine where I have said I dislike Cooper personally, I'll save you the time, you won't be able to, as there aren't any to find. I wouldn't care if Annis was the manager of Swansea, if he had a plan to improve the enjoyment of the product.
I can see merit in some of RM's decisions and philosophy, however there is a long long way to go, I see green shoots of returning to the style we had when we were a lot of fans second team. Like I said, its still a long way off, I applaud the owners for having the vision to appoint RM but if he doesn't do the business, he will have to be replaced and I hope they have the same vision with any future appointment.
I was at the Millwall and Hull games and they weren't the best, however I can at least see what RM is trying to do, he's really not helping himself with some of his soundbytes after games and some of his selection decisions, picking Korey Smith for example and his handling of Whittaker.
This is a medium to long term project and there needs to be visible green shoots, which I believe there are. You however may have a different opinion and that is fine. My issue was with SC the manager, definitely not SC the man. | | | |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 10:11 - Oct 7 with 2741 views | onehunglow |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 01:22 - Oct 7 by Treforys_Jack |
Yes really !!
Please don't tell me how I think and I take it personally that you accuse me of disliking Cooper because of his roots. Can you find a single post of mine where I have said I dislike Cooper personally, I'll save you the time, you won't be able to, as there aren't any to find. I wouldn't care if Annis was the manager of Swansea, if he had a plan to improve the enjoyment of the product.
I can see merit in some of RM's decisions and philosophy, however there is a long long way to go, I see green shoots of returning to the style we had when we were a lot of fans second team. Like I said, its still a long way off, I applaud the owners for having the vision to appoint RM but if he doesn't do the business, he will have to be replaced and I hope they have the same vision with any future appointment.
I was at the Millwall and Hull games and they weren't the best, however I can at least see what RM is trying to do, he's really not helping himself with some of his soundbytes after games and some of his selection decisions, picking Korey Smith for example and his handling of Whittaker.
This is a medium to long term project and there needs to be visible green shoots, which I believe there are. You however may have a different opinion and that is fine. My issue was with SC the manager, definitely not SC the man. |
Well,Cooper the man seemed to be rather sullen ,downbeat and ,to use that cursed word-negative.
Martin is the opposite character but thus far has improved the side by better performances apparently which have led to us being near the bootom of the league with not that many wins under our belt. We are told though that Martin WILL see us return to glory and that EVENTUALLY we will be flying close to the Sun.
Cooper screwed up 2 play offs;Russ wont get us anywhere near them.
Hobsons | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 11:04 - Oct 7 with 2735 views | vetchonian |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 01:22 - Oct 7 by Treforys_Jack |
Yes really !!
Please don't tell me how I think and I take it personally that you accuse me of disliking Cooper because of his roots. Can you find a single post of mine where I have said I dislike Cooper personally, I'll save you the time, you won't be able to, as there aren't any to find. I wouldn't care if Annis was the manager of Swansea, if he had a plan to improve the enjoyment of the product.
I can see merit in some of RM's decisions and philosophy, however there is a long long way to go, I see green shoots of returning to the style we had when we were a lot of fans second team. Like I said, its still a long way off, I applaud the owners for having the vision to appoint RM but if he doesn't do the business, he will have to be replaced and I hope they have the same vision with any future appointment.
I was at the Millwall and Hull games and they weren't the best, however I can at least see what RM is trying to do, he's really not helping himself with some of his soundbytes after games and some of his selection decisions, picking Korey Smith for example and his handling of Whittaker.
This is a medium to long term project and there needs to be visible green shoots, which I believe there are. You however may have a different opinion and that is fine. My issue was with SC the manager, definitely not SC the man. |
Fair reply and I wasnt aiming the comments regarding how people disliked Cooper due to his roots specifically at you....it was a generalistic comment but there is a section of our fan base whose dislike was not purely down to his football but it gave them extra ammo to hide behind
We are all entitled to our opinions and I do respect yours, I guess I get over enthusiastic at times when I read al ot of the stuff on here which is not factual ...
It is interesting that the talk we are now a medium to long term project yet we seem to have discounted the likes of Oli Cooper, Dan Williams, Joesph and Whittaker with talk of them being shipped out or already on loan and then Martin making the statements about players queuing up to join us in the next window how will this make those youngsters feel. Surely wew ould be better if itis a medium to ongterm project builodong a squad form the young talent we already have....take some defeats whihc we are any way whilst building a team? | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 12:48 - Oct 7 with 2702 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 23:36 - Oct 6 by ReslovenSwan1 |
This is effectively a re run of the 'delaudrupificaction process' initiated by Garry Monk. Swansea had under the latter days of the great Dane had too much pointless possession and were not getting the ball quickly enough to Bony. They were losing physical battles.
Monk got this issue sorted and went more direct. Consequently Bony had a magnificent 2014 (or was it 2015? ) where he was the Premier leagues top scorer. When Bony left Eder was not up to it and Gomis was a different type of forward who liked to run onto and with the ball.
This argument is groundhog day. Monks first big win game was home to Cardiff 3-0. Dr P, Vetonian and OHL are promoters of 'Monkism'. The received wisdom was that this started the decline of Swansea city. I am not so sure. Monk lost £28m Bony and got Eder and Tabanou. I thought he forced out Laudrup's player but then re signed Hernandez for Leeds where he was worshipped. |
Where have I promoted “monkism”. You do enjoy bringing me up in your posts, it never ends well for you.
I am against sacrificing attacking intent for pointless possession, how is that in any way shape or form “monkism”?
We have had 26% less shots than last season. Given up more shots than last season.
I’m all for passing, possession football providing that it is implemented in such a way where it suits the side and as a result we are more potent. Like we were under Martinez and Rodgers.
This is a million miles away from that, isn’t it. Three 0-0 draws in 11, 34% of games we have had 2 shots on target or less.
Why should I be delighted with that?
Thanks in advance. |  |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 12:59 - Oct 7 with 2694 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 11:04 - Oct 7 by vetchonian |
Fair reply and I wasnt aiming the comments regarding how people disliked Cooper due to his roots specifically at you....it was a generalistic comment but there is a section of our fan base whose dislike was not purely down to his football but it gave them extra ammo to hide behind
We are all entitled to our opinions and I do respect yours, I guess I get over enthusiastic at times when I read al ot of the stuff on here which is not factual ...
It is interesting that the talk we are now a medium to long term project yet we seem to have discounted the likes of Oli Cooper, Dan Williams, Joesph and Whittaker with talk of them being shipped out or already on loan and then Martin making the statements about players queuing up to join us in the next window how will this make those youngsters feel. Surely wew ould be better if itis a medium to ongterm project builodong a squad form the young talent we already have....take some defeats whihc we are any way whilst building a team? |
Put it this way.
If Cooper said in pre season that he wanted to change the style and these 11 games and the youth omission we have seen so far this season is exactly the same course of events that would have happened under him…. He would have been absolutely slaughtered.
Suddenly these “exciting games” that people are all of a sudden pretending to see, would be seen as un-inventive”, “negative” and “turgid”.
These games people are playing for whatever reasons they have are incredibly tiresome. It’s putting me off posting at the moment to be honest, it’s like Groundhog Day.
Saturday - we play badly and everyone seems to recognise it.
Sunday - it starts to filter that it wasn’t that bad and we were probably unlucky as everyone tries to convince each other based of possession stats.
Monday to Wednesday - people argue that we actually played excellently and “time” will show it despite others showing why we are playing incredibly ineffectively.
Thursday to Friday - we have convinced ourselves we are a Rodgers team in waiting and someone is about to get a hammering.
Saturday - we fail to register a handful of chances again and people realise this isn’t good at all.
Sunday - people convince themselves it wasn’t that bad and the cycle starts again… | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 13:04 - Oct 7 with 2694 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 12:48 - Oct 7 by Dr_Parnassus |
Where have I promoted “monkism”. You do enjoy bringing me up in your posts, it never ends well for you.
I am against sacrificing attacking intent for pointless possession, how is that in any way shape or form “monkism”?
We have had 26% less shots than last season. Given up more shots than last season.
I’m all for passing, possession football providing that it is implemented in such a way where it suits the side and as a result we are more potent. Like we were under Martinez and Rodgers.
This is a million miles away from that, isn’t it. Three 0-0 draws in 11, 34% of games we have had 2 shots on target or less.
Why should I be delighted with that?
Thanks in advance. |
It ends as it ends. If you want to archive my posts for future use good on you. You are still promoting the idea Brighton played a bunch of kids v Swansea. The kids included 22 year old's with 10 international caps or more. You are using statistics to support your narrative and its misleading for the majority that do not understand 'standard deviation' and such concepts.
Swansea with Ayew would have beaten Derby in a canter. Bidwell puts in a peach of a cross and Cullen closes his eyes and hopes for the best. Fine margins. Cullen should be playing for Torquay to get a few bumps and briuses. Sink or swim.
Do some statistics and work out how many points Swansea would have got without Ayew last season. African player of the year a few years back.
You posts appear to me to support "Monkism". He took Swansea to their highest ever league position. He is also available if the club see it fit to take your numbers and run with them.
Monk like Tate saw all the great Swansea managed except Flynn. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 13:29 - Oct 7 with 2681 views | vetchonian |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 13:04 - Oct 7 by ReslovenSwan1 |
It ends as it ends. If you want to archive my posts for future use good on you. You are still promoting the idea Brighton played a bunch of kids v Swansea. The kids included 22 year old's with 10 international caps or more. You are using statistics to support your narrative and its misleading for the majority that do not understand 'standard deviation' and such concepts.
Swansea with Ayew would have beaten Derby in a canter. Bidwell puts in a peach of a cross and Cullen closes his eyes and hopes for the best. Fine margins. Cullen should be playing for Torquay to get a few bumps and briuses. Sink or swim.
Do some statistics and work out how many points Swansea would have got without Ayew last season. African player of the year a few years back.
You posts appear to me to support "Monkism". He took Swansea to their highest ever league position. He is also available if the club see it fit to take your numbers and run with them.
Monk like Tate saw all the great Swansea managed except Flynn. |
Again people bring up Ayew as the be all and end all....the same could be said of Michu for Laudrup? Cooper as a manager used hthe resources he had availble to him maybe if Ayew had not been here there would have been another solution...but Lowe scored more goals from open play not bad for a player switched to a striker form a winger he doubled his goal tally from the season before!!!...SO it was nto all down to Ayew !
Ayew scored a total of 17 goals 5 of which were penalties, Lowe scored 14 goals 1 penalty so Lowe had a better return from open play....Ayew went deu to his unsustainable cost what happened to the other top scorer?
WE might have won at Derby had Whittaker been given more of a chance? WE nearly lost at Derby as Korey SMith chose to pass backwards from inside the Derby half rather than turinig and going forwards in an attemot to keep posssession, he passed it short the ball picked up by a Derby player who fortuneately took a waek shot which HAmer half saved....this crap about Ayew being Coopers strength has to stop.....or has Ayew now appeared at Forest who under Cooper have scored 7 goals in 3 games so far whilst we have managed just 9 in 11 games
The time for comparing Martin to Cooper is over its time to start measuring Martin against Martin....the stats dont lie we are a less attacking threat than we were...whilst this sesaon the MKDons fan talk of how they are more attacking...the ball tends to get used better ....they still top the possesion table and have godd passing stats but they have a lot more shots .... | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 13:54 - Oct 7 with 2668 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 13:04 - Oct 7 by ReslovenSwan1 |
It ends as it ends. If you want to archive my posts for future use good on you. You are still promoting the idea Brighton played a bunch of kids v Swansea. The kids included 22 year old's with 10 international caps or more. You are using statistics to support your narrative and its misleading for the majority that do not understand 'standard deviation' and such concepts.
Swansea with Ayew would have beaten Derby in a canter. Bidwell puts in a peach of a cross and Cullen closes his eyes and hopes for the best. Fine margins. Cullen should be playing for Torquay to get a few bumps and briuses. Sink or swim.
Do some statistics and work out how many points Swansea would have got without Ayew last season. African player of the year a few years back.
You posts appear to me to support "Monkism". He took Swansea to their highest ever league position. He is also available if the club see it fit to take your numbers and run with them.
Monk like Tate saw all the great Swansea managed except Flynn. |
Indeed, it never ends well for you, as I said. Why you keep chancing your arm and bringing me into your nonsense, I don’t know.
I am not promoting anything, I’m stating a fact. They did play a bunch of kids. You happen to think those particular kids are good… potter doesn’t think half of them are good enough to even get into their match boots in league games, and doesn’t think the majority of the other half deserve very many minutes at all, none in many cases.
There is nothing misleading there, the vast majority of the starting eleven we played don’t play any significant part on the pitch in the regular season. They are reserve players. Burn is the only one that is a regular starter, the rest are kids (apart from the older keeper Steele, who is also a back up keeper). Their right back is earmarked for more starts in the future though, but that’s still to come.
Not sure what that has to do with anything I just posted though. It seems you are deflecting from the nonsense you just spouted?
Swansea would have beaten Derby with or without Ayew had we set up correctly and played effectively, like we did without Ayew last season - or didn’t you know that? We managed perfectly well without Ayew under Cooper. I think we lost once in 7 games and had a similar return points wise to what we were getting with him in the side, we were consistent.
I have done the stats to douse such nonsense before, several times, you clearly didn’t pay attention.
If my posts “appear” to promote “Monkism” then you will be able to show us all then won’t you. My posts promote common sense, they don’t need to appear to promote anything.
Stop while you are considerably behind, your crap won’t get anywhere with me - as you well know. [Post edited 7 Oct 2021 14:09]
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 14:02 - Oct 7 with 2655 views | Dr_Parnassus |
Last season Ayew was not in the squad for 3 matches, ironically including Derby Away (which we won).
2 wins and 1 loss. 6 points from 9.
Another two games he played less than 30 mins and we drew both, losing none.
The year before he was not in the squad for 2 games. We won one and drew one.
So in total, including games where he played less than a third of the game:-
W: 3
D: 3
L: 1
12 points from a possible 21.
1.71 points per game - 78 points per season form, which ironically is the average points gained over the two Cooper seasons combined, with or without him. Entirely consistent. | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 14:28 - Oct 7 with 2635 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 14:02 - Oct 7 by Dr_Parnassus |
Last season Ayew was not in the squad for 3 matches, ironically including Derby Away (which we won).
2 wins and 1 loss. 6 points from 9.
Another two games he played less than 30 mins and we drew both, losing none.
The year before he was not in the squad for 2 games. We won one and drew one.
So in total, including games where he played less than a third of the game:-
W: 3
D: 3
L: 1
12 points from a possible 21.
1.71 points per game - 78 points per season form, which ironically is the average points gained over the two Cooper seasons combined, with or without him. Entirely consistent. |
Yes what you say is true statistically. This suggests perhaps Cullen should have played in his place the statistics prove it, or was it Goykeres?. Nonsense of course.
Sadly statistics are not enough to go on. I do not know one manager with a degree in statistics. Most posters on here know this.
Generally Ayew was rested for League cup and FA cup games mostly against lower league opposition or opposition resting players. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 14:30 - Oct 7 with 2629 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 14:28 - Oct 7 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Yes what you say is true statistically. This suggests perhaps Cullen should have played in his place the statistics prove it, or was it Goykeres?. Nonsense of course.
Sadly statistics are not enough to go on. I do not know one manager with a degree in statistics. Most posters on here know this.
Generally Ayew was rested for League cup and FA cup games mostly against lower league opposition or opposition resting players. |
So you ask me to do the stats, one which even included our Derby away win without him… it doesn’t go your way so it now all of a sudden not something we can go on.
All of those were league games, I didn’t count any cup games for that reason.
You are talking nonsense yet again I’m afraid, most posters on here know this. | |
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| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 14:45 - Oct 7 with 2619 views | vetchonian |
| Effective and Efficient Football = Winning on 14:28 - Oct 7 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Yes what you say is true statistically. This suggests perhaps Cullen should have played in his place the statistics prove it, or was it Goykeres?. Nonsense of course.
Sadly statistics are not enough to go on. I do not know one manager with a degree in statistics. Most posters on here know this.
Generally Ayew was rested for League cup and FA cup games mostly against lower league opposition or opposition resting players. |
But the managers usually have a team of statisticians working for them who compile the various stats and them analyse and present them to the manager...the game is driven by it these days....possesion , pass completion, area covered,attempted shots, shots on target,shots received, and so it goes on...like managers in all professions the modern football manager uses these to formulate his plans, etc...gone are the days of the gut instinct....as the game has become more scientific...
I really love people who adapt the narrative to suit their arguement...mind you given you spend so much time with your head up HJs backside I can understand why it is often hard for you to see sense
I do apologise for getting personal its not usually my style but eh love in you appear to have for the leader of the sellouts is quite amusing [Post edited 7 Oct 2021 15:12]
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