| Sarah Everad 17:01 - Sep 30 with 16312 views | Sirjohnalot |
A whole life sentence is extremely rare, only used in exceptional circumstances outside sexual killers of children, targeted police, multiple murderers etc.
What this animal did was so horrific the Judge ruled he will never be released, he will die in prison. It was the only possible sentence the Judge could impose, even though the press reports are horrific they did not report on all that he did. Evil psychopaths like can never be reformed.
Evil beyond belief, whilst there may be some debate about what should happen to Katie Price, I cannot imagine, for one second what on earth his barrister could have said on his behalf.
It's really important, as I've read online, people criticising his Counsel, that he was represented, to ensure that Justice is done, to ensure the law is applied correctly. If you are instructed, you are ethicially obliged to take it on, unless you think it is beyond your capabilities, or you know one of the parties so that you cannot be impartial etc.
It is likely that it will be appealed, you would not be carrying out your job properly if you didn't , such is the exceptional sentence, but I cannot see any Court overruling it.
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| Sarah Everad on 16:14 - Oct 2 with 1274 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sarah Everad on 16:00 - Oct 2 by londonlisa2001 |
I am taking about immediate changes to the police that would make women feel safer with them.
It doesn’t instantly need to also cover issues regarding men as well.
Yes, domestic violence is underreported women against men, you are right. Different issue though.
We are talking about sexual violence and the wider culture of harassment, sexualisation, sexual threats etc. Which all are, in the vast, vast majority of cases, men against women. The fact there are different crimes affecting different groups of people doesn’t alter that, nor do they all need to be discussed at once. |
Why doesn’t it need to cover the safety of men too? I really am struggling to understand that point. It’s the same action, sacking of officers with a violent past, whether it be against a woman or a man shouldn’t matter.
Men are 20 times more likely to be the victims of violence from the police. That’s staggering. So when your suggested action to protect women is sacking officers with violent history towards women, why on earth wouldn’t we broaden that range to incorporate men and safeguard the majority of victims of violence, sexual and otherwise all combined, men are still more likely to be the victims, by a country mile.
I can’t think of a single sensible reason why we wouldn’t.
Men are so uncared for by society, that in order for any change to help them, it takes tragic stories like this to shine a light on this violence. Without it, men will continue to be attacked and killed and nobody care, unless the man happens to be black and the media can make a race story out of it.
There absolutely needs to be things done to make women feel safer, you won’t get me disagreeing. But the same action to help that will also help men, who are by far and away the biggest victims of police violence if the standard for sacking officers is also held to the same account regardless of sex.
No need to separate in this instance. The world is far too divided as it is, absolutely no reason at all that we can’t protect everyone. |  |
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| Sarah Everad on 17:03 - Oct 2 with 1254 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Sarah Everad on 16:14 - Oct 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Why doesn’t it need to cover the safety of men too? I really am struggling to understand that point. It’s the same action, sacking of officers with a violent past, whether it be against a woman or a man shouldn’t matter.
Men are 20 times more likely to be the victims of violence from the police. That’s staggering. So when your suggested action to protect women is sacking officers with violent history towards women, why on earth wouldn’t we broaden that range to incorporate men and safeguard the majority of victims of violence, sexual and otherwise all combined, men are still more likely to be the victims, by a country mile.
I can’t think of a single sensible reason why we wouldn’t.
Men are so uncared for by society, that in order for any change to help them, it takes tragic stories like this to shine a light on this violence. Without it, men will continue to be attacked and killed and nobody care, unless the man happens to be black and the media can make a race story out of it.
There absolutely needs to be things done to make women feel safer, you won’t get me disagreeing. But the same action to help that will also help men, who are by far and away the biggest victims of police violence if the standard for sacking officers is also held to the same account regardless of sex.
No need to separate in this instance. The world is far too divided as it is, absolutely no reason at all that we can’t protect everyone. |
Sexual violence against women doesn’t affect men. It is a different type of crime.
That’s why I didn’t mention it.
I was not attempting to list everything possible that could be done to improve the police. That was obvious.
We are not talking about violence from the police. We are talking about sexual violence, and other sexual crimes. You seem unable to countenance a discussion which doesn’t put men front and centre. When talking sexual violence and sexual harassment and a culture of that being acceptable within the police, men are not the victims which is why I didn’t mention it.
Now we are going round in circles and adding nothing. So you can now say it’s wrong again as no one cares about men and we can stop. |  | | |
| Sarah Everad on 17:08 - Oct 2 with 1247 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sarah Everad on 17:03 - Oct 2 by londonlisa2001 |
Sexual violence against women doesn’t affect men. It is a different type of crime.
That’s why I didn’t mention it.
I was not attempting to list everything possible that could be done to improve the police. That was obvious.
We are not talking about violence from the police. We are talking about sexual violence, and other sexual crimes. You seem unable to countenance a discussion which doesn’t put men front and centre. When talking sexual violence and sexual harassment and a culture of that being acceptable within the police, men are not the victims which is why I didn’t mention it.
Now we are going round in circles and adding nothing. So you can now say it’s wrong again as no one cares about men and we can stop. |
I know, but your method to combat that was to sack all officers with a history of violence toward women (you didn’t state sexual).
My point is that if we are doing mass overhauls such as this, then we need to look at the broader picture and not narrow it down to just sacking officers with violent history against women. Broaden it to sack officers with a history of violence toward “people”.
This violence against either sex is a massive part of the culture you are referring to that breeds the mentality that some of them are above the law. So it makes little sense at all when weeding out officers that have an overly violent streak to only select those that are violent to a certain portion of society.
I’m sure you know my point is perfectly valid. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 18:29 - Oct 2 with 1224 views | KeithHaynes |
| Sarah Everad on 17:03 - Oct 2 by londonlisa2001 |
Sexual violence against women doesn’t affect men. It is a different type of crime.
That’s why I didn’t mention it.
I was not attempting to list everything possible that could be done to improve the police. That was obvious.
We are not talking about violence from the police. We are talking about sexual violence, and other sexual crimes. You seem unable to countenance a discussion which doesn’t put men front and centre. When talking sexual violence and sexual harassment and a culture of that being acceptable within the police, men are not the victims which is why I didn’t mention it.
Now we are going round in circles and adding nothing. So you can now say it’s wrong again as no one cares about men and we can stop. |
Sexual abuse against women does affect men directly.
Especially when in later life they have extreme serious and complex mental break downs as a result of seeing their mothers etc ... on the receiving end of rape and beatings when they were children.
More thought needs to be given. |  |
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| Sarah Everad on 18:31 - Oct 2 with 1220 views | KeithHaynes |
| Sarah Everad on 11:53 - Oct 2 by onehunglow |
Peter Sutcliffe murdered 13 women but i dont hate all lorry driver
Harold Shipman killed 250 but I still trust doctors
Dennis Nielsen murdered 12 men but I dont have an issue with Employment officers |
Don’t mention Neilson, I do believe he was a failed copper. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 18:41 - Oct 2 with 1204 views | majorraglan |
| Sarah Everad on 07:19 - Oct 2 by trampie |
Morning chief, not in my home town 40 years ago, off duty crashed at the lights blocking the road informed uniform when they turned up he was a serving police officer and had been drinking and he kept his job, although after the event he said it was touch and go when waiting for their verdict his perfect record, remorse etc saved the day and treating every case on its merit rightly so (a good policeman that apparently had done good and went on to do good after that) I would say, but have others less deserving got away with it ?
I take it you seen the article about police found guilty of sexual misconducts still keeping their jobs.
Did you see the recent documentary series on the Cardiff 3/5, how did the police not go to jail ?, remember Hillsborough how did the police not go to jail, it was not just one person altering statements was it ? [Post edited 2 Oct 2021 7:45]
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The incident you're talking about is 40 years old, all those involved would have long left the police service. The world has moved on considerably since then, just check out the stuff on TV. | | | |
| Sarah Everad on 18:42 - Oct 2 with 1199 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Sarah Everad on 18:29 - Oct 2 by KeithHaynes |
Sexual abuse against women does affect men directly.
Especially when in later life they have extreme serious and complex mental break downs as a result of seeing their mothers etc ... on the receiving end of rape and beatings when they were children.
More thought needs to be given. |
That’s an indirect effect rather than direct. (An indirect effect that also affects women in the same way, of course).
A bit like saying suicide amongst men, which is far worse than it is amongst women, has an indirect effect on women as they will be family members, friends and loved ones.
That’s not denigrating it even slightly by the way, it’s just different.
Women face a threat of sexual violence that is far, far less frequent for men. It does happen, but it’s a crime that is exceptionally lop sided.
I’ve said before that I do not know a single woman who hasn’t been subject to this sort of stuff. And actually from quite a young age in many cases. Some of it, most of it, is what could be termed lower level, but it still has a huge impact on life. | | | |
| Sarah Everad on 18:49 - Oct 2 with 1190 views | majorraglan |
| Sarah Everad on 11:03 - Oct 2 by trampie |
The police never helped the people of that township (was it Mayhill or Townhill) in Swansea when there was a riot the other day, they were nowhere to be seen and they were called and the people needed them. |
Totally agree with about the riot business, there should be an enquiry and we should be told what happened and went wrong. I suspect the police didn’t go in because they didn’t have the numbers on duty to deal with the problem, sending the officers I would have sen the entire mob turn on the cops and they’d have had a good shoeing. In the worst case scenario there could have been another Broadwater Farm incident. | | | |
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| Sarah Everad on 18:56 - Oct 2 with 1171 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sarah Everad on 18:42 - Oct 2 by londonlisa2001 |
That’s an indirect effect rather than direct. (An indirect effect that also affects women in the same way, of course).
A bit like saying suicide amongst men, which is far worse than it is amongst women, has an indirect effect on women as they will be family members, friends and loved ones.
That’s not denigrating it even slightly by the way, it’s just different.
Women face a threat of sexual violence that is far, far less frequent for men. It does happen, but it’s a crime that is exceptionally lop sided.
I’ve said before that I do not know a single woman who hasn’t been subject to this sort of stuff. And actually from quite a young age in many cases. Some of it, most of it, is what could be termed lower level, but it still has a huge impact on life. |
Not sure that’s true is it?
The figures are foggy but they say more men are raped than women in America, not sure what the statistics are for the U.K.
That of course includes prison inmates, but they are just as human and you or I. It’s often seen as a joke though, “don’t drop the soap”.
Zero attention is paid to it at all by society, it’s broadly seen as amusing.
It’s horrific and leads to huge bouts of male suicide. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 18:59 - Oct 2 with 1173 views | majorraglan |
| Sarah Everad on 12:53 - Oct 2 by angryjack |
Stop trying justify it,more and more vermin I call them are being exposed but get away with things because brushed under carpet ,the scumbag was indecently exposing himself earlier but because he was a copper brushed under carpet you scratch my back I scratch yours ..never trust a copper...scum |
Let’s wait for the facts to come out and the outcome of the investigation.
If I was a betting man I’d wager it wasn’t a cover up, more a case of the matter was recorded by an operator over the phone and not actually allocated for investigation, or if it had been recorded it wasn’t high on the list of priorities at that time. | | | |
| Sarah Everad on 19:10 - Oct 2 with 1159 views | KeithHaynes |
| Sarah Everad on 18:42 - Oct 2 by londonlisa2001 |
That’s an indirect effect rather than direct. (An indirect effect that also affects women in the same way, of course).
A bit like saying suicide amongst men, which is far worse than it is amongst women, has an indirect effect on women as they will be family members, friends and loved ones.
That’s not denigrating it even slightly by the way, it’s just different.
Women face a threat of sexual violence that is far, far less frequent for men. It does happen, but it’s a crime that is exceptionally lop sided.
I’ve said before that I do not know a single woman who hasn’t been subject to this sort of stuff. And actually from quite a young age in many cases. Some of it, most of it, is what could be termed lower level, but it still has a huge impact on life. |
I’ve known many women and to a lesser degree men who have had horrendous times throughout their lives. As an advocate for safeguarding in the south west for the Sexual Offences Referral Centre in Gloucester, we encouraged reporting of abuse even if it wasn’t followed up, all involved talked about absolutely disgusting reports of abuse.
The non reports that the victim didn’t want to statement as a complaint were as valuable as the ones which the police investigated and got to court.
We do sing from the same hymn sheet. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 19:15 - Oct 2 with 1155 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Sarah Everad on 18:56 - Oct 2 by Dr_Parnassus |
Not sure that’s true is it?
The figures are foggy but they say more men are raped than women in America, not sure what the statistics are for the U.K.
That of course includes prison inmates, but they are just as human and you or I. It’s often seen as a joke though, “don’t drop the soap”.
Zero attention is paid to it at all by society, it’s broadly seen as amusing.
It’s horrific and leads to huge bouts of male suicide. |
Rape statistics are c. 90% female to 10% male in the US.
Here (a England and Wales) it’s just over 7 times more likely to be a woman rather than a man that’s a victim of rape, attempted rape and sexual assault where there is penetration by an object.
Most rapes here of course are unreported. It’s likely that many men don’t report rape due to embarrassment, but equally many women don’t due to fear of having their private lives dragged through the mud. | | | |
| Sarah Everad on 19:18 - Oct 2 with 1146 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Sarah Everad on 19:10 - Oct 2 by KeithHaynes |
I’ve known many women and to a lesser degree men who have had horrendous times throughout their lives. As an advocate for safeguarding in the south west for the Sexual Offences Referral Centre in Gloucester, we encouraged reporting of abuse even if it wasn’t followed up, all involved talked about absolutely disgusting reports of abuse.
The non reports that the victim didn’t want to statement as a complaint were as valuable as the ones which the police investigated and got to court.
We do sing from the same hymn sheet. |
Yes, I’m sure we do, which is why I was surprised at you believing I had an agenda.
Anyway. That’s not the important bit. The important bit is trying to deal with this issue. In society. | | | |
| Sarah Everad on 19:22 - Oct 2 with 1140 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Sarah Everad on 19:15 - Oct 2 by londonlisa2001 |
Rape statistics are c. 90% female to 10% male in the US.
Here (a England and Wales) it’s just over 7 times more likely to be a woman rather than a man that’s a victim of rape, attempted rape and sexual assault where there is penetration by an object.
Most rapes here of course are unreported. It’s likely that many men don’t report rape due to embarrassment, but equally many women don’t due to fear of having their private lives dragged through the mud. |
Does your source include prisons?
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2449454/amp/Mor | |
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| Sarah Everad on 19:34 - Oct 2 with 1127 views | trampie |
| Sarah Everad on 18:41 - Oct 2 by majorraglan |
The incident you're talking about is 40 years old, all those involved would have long left the police service. The world has moved on considerably since then, just check out the stuff on TV. |
I can give you more recent examples. [Post edited 2 Oct 2021 22:03]
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| Sarah Everad on 19:48 - Oct 2 with 1105 views | majorraglan |
| Sarah Everad on 19:34 - Oct 2 by trampie |
I can give you more recent examples. [Post edited 2 Oct 2021 22:03]
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If you’ve got concerns they should be reported to the relevant Police Force’s Professional Standards Department, it’s the only way to deal with wrong doing. | | | |
| Sarah Everad on 19:58 - Oct 2 with 1095 views | trampie |
| Sarah Everad on 19:48 - Oct 2 by majorraglan |
If you’ve got concerns they should be reported to the relevant Police Force’s Professional Standards Department, it’s the only way to deal with wrong doing. |
It's not my fight. [Post edited 2 Oct 2021 22:01]
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| Sarah Everad on 21:55 - Oct 2 with 1055 views | trampie |
Put in Met police in Twitter search and these are the first three tweets that came up. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 15:55 - Oct 3 with 956 views | KeithHaynes |
| Sarah Everad on 21:55 - Oct 2 by trampie |
Put in Met police in Twitter search and these are the first three tweets that came up. |
More context needed there mate. If anything comes out of it then it requires sorting.
Thankfully it’s a small amount of people and most were not police officers ?
I like this though from an another thread, but sadly it isn’t newsworthy.
Judges comments on Wayne Couzens investigation and compilation of evidence.
This has been the most impressive police investigation that I have encountered in the 30 years I have been sitting as a part-time and full-time judge. The speed with which the evidence leading to the arrest of the defendant was secured is highly notable, as has been the painstaking reconstruction of these events using electronic material along with more old-fashioned methods of policing. It cannot be suggested in my view that the Metropolitan Police, even for a moment, attempted to close ranks to protect one of their own. Instead, remorselessly, efficiently and impartially the investigating officers followed all the available leads, resulting in an overwhelming case against the accused. Meriting particular mention are Detective Chief Inspector Catherine Goodwin, Detective Kim Martin and Acting Detective Inspector Lee Tullett. Mr Tullett has been a key figure in the investigation and the preparation of this case, going well beyond what could properly be expected of any police officer, and his role deserves high commendation.
This post has been edited by an administrator | |
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| Sarah Everad on 16:28 - Oct 3 with 937 views | trampie |
| Sarah Everad on 15:55 - Oct 3 by KeithHaynes |
More context needed there mate. If anything comes out of it then it requires sorting.
Thankfully it’s a small amount of people and most were not police officers ?
I like this though from an another thread, but sadly it isn’t newsworthy.
Judges comments on Wayne Couzens investigation and compilation of evidence.
This has been the most impressive police investigation that I have encountered in the 30 years I have been sitting as a part-time and full-time judge. The speed with which the evidence leading to the arrest of the defendant was secured is highly notable, as has been the painstaking reconstruction of these events using electronic material along with more old-fashioned methods of policing. It cannot be suggested in my view that the Metropolitan Police, even for a moment, attempted to close ranks to protect one of their own. Instead, remorselessly, efficiently and impartially the investigating officers followed all the available leads, resulting in an overwhelming case against the accused. Meriting particular mention are Detective Chief Inspector Catherine Goodwin, Detective Kim Martin and Acting Detective Inspector Lee Tullett. Mr Tullett has been a key figure in the investigation and the preparation of this case, going well beyond what could properly be expected of any police officer, and his role deserves high commendation.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Butty im surprised you fallen for that, off course a judge is going to say that, they are part of the establishment like the police and the government.
Don't you recognise that the police often close ranks (other professions do it as well) to protect the institution and themselves as individuals ?, the reason why people talk about it is because they recognise it as a thing the police do, they have a reputation for such behaviour, what the judge says is damning, very damning in my eyes and I tell you why I think that, it's because he mentions closing ranks, why ?, it gives the impression that he recognises they close ranks on occasion, otherwise why mention it, they might well be not guilty of that this time but it was a horrific murder of a young woman, even if apparently colleagues gave him good character references even after he admitted guilt..
If people within the force and government don't recognise closing ranks as an issue then they become part of the problem and will never cure it. | |
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| Sarah Everad on 18:08 - Oct 3 with 906 views | controversial_jack |
| Sarah Everad on 19:10 - Oct 2 by KeithHaynes |
I’ve known many women and to a lesser degree men who have had horrendous times throughout their lives. As an advocate for safeguarding in the south west for the Sexual Offences Referral Centre in Gloucester, we encouraged reporting of abuse even if it wasn’t followed up, all involved talked about absolutely disgusting reports of abuse.
The non reports that the victim didn’t want to statement as a complaint were as valuable as the ones which the police investigated and got to court.
We do sing from the same hymn sheet. |
This very day, my daughter has been the subject of domestic abuse. She wasn't assaulted - or the ex wouldn't be in a healthy state right now, but damage to her house as he tried to get in. The police responded and were very professional and sympathetic. She and her kids are currently staying with us until they find and lock him up.
The police have said, they do their job in locking him up and charging them, but are constantly let down by the courts.
So, whoever said i will need the police one day have been proven correct . It's not the first time either. | | | |
| Sarah Everad on 18:37 - Oct 3 with 890 views | trampie |
| Sarah Everad on 18:08 - Oct 3 by controversial_jack |
This very day, my daughter has been the subject of domestic abuse. She wasn't assaulted - or the ex wouldn't be in a healthy state right now, but damage to her house as he tried to get in. The police responded and were very professional and sympathetic. She and her kids are currently staying with us until they find and lock him up.
The police have said, they do their job in locking him up and charging them, but are constantly let down by the courts.
So, whoever said i will need the police one day have been proven correct . It's not the first time either. |
Sorry to hear that. [Post edited 3 Oct 2021 19:25]
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| Sarah Everad on 18:44 - Oct 3 with 882 views | Gwyn737 |
| Sarah Everad on 18:08 - Oct 3 by controversial_jack |
This very day, my daughter has been the subject of domestic abuse. She wasn't assaulted - or the ex wouldn't be in a healthy state right now, but damage to her house as he tried to get in. The police responded and were very professional and sympathetic. She and her kids are currently staying with us until they find and lock him up.
The police have said, they do their job in locking him up and charging them, but are constantly let down by the courts.
So, whoever said i will need the police one day have been proven correct . It's not the first time either. |
Sorry to hear this.
It must be incredibly frustrating for the police regarding the courts. We have had successive Home Secretaries sounding off on tougher sentences whilst systematically underfunding the judicial system.
Courts sit empty with cases taking years to get to trial. | | | |
| Sarah Everad on 19:06 - Oct 3 with 868 views | trampie |
| Sarah Everad on 18:44 - Oct 3 by Gwyn737 |
Sorry to hear this.
It must be incredibly frustrating for the police regarding the courts. We have had successive Home Secretaries sounding off on tougher sentences whilst systematically underfunding the judicial system.
Courts sit empty with cases taking years to get to trial. |
They are trying to change the rules and sentiment is the sense I've been getting over recent years not sure if they are going In the right direction mind. [Post edited 3 Oct 2021 19:28]
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