| patrick vieira to palace 12:09 - Jun 29 with 11316 views | KeithHaynes |
Very shortly. |  |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 10:34 - Jun 30 with 700 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| patrick vieira to palace on 10:29 - Jun 30 by Badlands |
WTF are you on about.
Unless you have a crystal ball a move to a PM club is a step up.
There is no knowing if Fulham will bounce back (and for how long) or if they will do a Wigsn! |
I have explained that perfectly well.
Fulham have regularly bounced back to the Premier League from relegation, that’s what the bigger clubs tend to do (which is why we are struggling to). Wigan have never done it, nor were they ever expected to for obvious reasons.
A bigger team, favourites for the Championship title with a history of Premier League high finishes and longevity - is a better job than a smaller team destined for relegation any season now from the league above. It is simply that.
You do not need a crystal ball to make an informed decision.
When Newcastle were in the Championship in 2017, I’d be taking that job all day long over the Stoke job in the Premier League. I’d have been right then too.
When West Ham were in the Championship in 2011, I’d be taking that job over the Bolton job...
Decisions most sane people would make - Funny that. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 10:43]
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| patrick vieira to palace on 10:44 - Jun 30 with 668 views | onehunglow |
| patrick vieira to palace on 10:34 - Jun 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
I have explained that perfectly well.
Fulham have regularly bounced back to the Premier League from relegation, that’s what the bigger clubs tend to do (which is why we are struggling to). Wigan have never done it, nor were they ever expected to for obvious reasons.
A bigger team, favourites for the Championship title with a history of Premier League high finishes and longevity - is a better job than a smaller team destined for relegation any season now from the league above. It is simply that.
You do not need a crystal ball to make an informed decision.
When Newcastle were in the Championship in 2017, I’d be taking that job all day long over the Stoke job in the Premier League. I’d have been right then too.
When West Ham were in the Championship in 2011, I’d be taking that job over the Bolton job...
Decisions most sane people would make - Funny that. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 10:43]
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Sunderland ..
Pompey
Big clubs too
Not bounced back |  |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 10:46 - Jun 30 with 671 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| patrick vieira to palace on 10:44 - Jun 30 by onehunglow |
Sunderland ..
Pompey
Big clubs too
Not bounced back |
Both currently due to crippling financial issues.
Although Sunderland have a rich history of bouncing back. | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 10:51 - Jun 30 with 660 views | ItchySphincter |
| patrick vieira to palace on 10:23 - Jun 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
Completely disagree.
Which is why I offered the bet that Fulham will be in a better position over a 4 year contract than Brighton will be. As of yet nobody wants to take that bet, presumably because the chances are that I am right. It’s a bet open to all.
You don’t view managerial roles through a scope of 1 season (unless you are being offered a 1 year contract). There is very little chance Swansea will be promoted any time soon, Fulham are favourites for the title.
Over the course of a 4 year contract Fulham will be higher than both Swansea and Brighton, likely to be a league higher than both in my opinion... ergo = it’s a step up. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 10:26]
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Your opinion, your gut is telling you that. In reality football is viewed with far more short term-ism, not by fans but by those who earn a living from it in the here and now. Is Wigan a bigger club than Cardiff? I’d say no but when Wigan were higher up the leagues and came calling for Graham Kavanagh he was like a rat up a drain pipe, couldn’t get on the helicopter quick enough, and it was perceived as a step up at the time. A move from Swansea to Fulham at this time is not a progressive step, it’s very much sideways. A move to Brighton from Swansea at this time would be viewed as a step up. It’s all interchangeable because the clubs in question are all of very similar stature. |  |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 10:57 - Jun 30 with 654 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| patrick vieira to palace on 10:51 - Jun 30 by ItchySphincter |
Your opinion, your gut is telling you that. In reality football is viewed with far more short term-ism, not by fans but by those who earn a living from it in the here and now. Is Wigan a bigger club than Cardiff? I’d say no but when Wigan were higher up the leagues and came calling for Graham Kavanagh he was like a rat up a drain pipe, couldn’t get on the helicopter quick enough, and it was perceived as a step up at the time. A move from Swansea to Fulham at this time is not a progressive step, it’s very much sideways. A move to Brighton from Swansea at this time would be viewed as a step up. It’s all interchangeable because the clubs in question are all of very similar stature. |
No, I rarely go on gut, that’s my point. My views are based on facts.
If Brighton had more top flight seasons, higher average attendances and higher traditional lifetime placing in the football league then I would be saying they were the bigger club, gut feeling doesn’t come into it.
Kavanagh went for money, you can offer more in the Premier League. Managerial moves and player moves are different, players get judged on their individual performance as opposed to the team performance, managers get judged on their record of team performance. So moving to a bad club destined for relegation can be disastrous for a manager, not the case for a player.
Fulham is a much bigger club than Swansea and Brighton, I have showed why that is the case. Your gut disagrees, that’s fine. But the bet is there for you too... | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 11:09 - Jun 30 with 629 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| patrick vieira to palace on 10:29 - Jun 30 by Badlands |
WTF are you on about.
Unless you have a crystal ball a move to a PM club is a step up.
There is no knowing if Fulham will bounce back (and for how long) or if they will do a Wigsn! |
Finally. |  | | |
| patrick vieira to palace on 11:12 - Jun 30 with 622 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| patrick vieira to palace on 11:09 - Jun 30 by 34dfgdf54 |
Finally. |
Yes finally one of the mob turn up to peddle the same nonsense, you must be pleased? It’s got you excited enough to break your vow of silence 
Sadly for you the facts remain and the bet is still left there untaken.... by anyone.
Funny that. | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 11:12 - Jun 30 with 620 views | ItchySphincter |
| patrick vieira to palace on 10:57 - Jun 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
No, I rarely go on gut, that’s my point. My views are based on facts.
If Brighton had more top flight seasons, higher average attendances and higher traditional lifetime placing in the football league then I would be saying they were the bigger club, gut feeling doesn’t come into it.
Kavanagh went for money, you can offer more in the Premier League. Managerial moves and player moves are different, players get judged on their individual performance as opposed to the team performance, managers get judged on their record of team performance. So moving to a bad club destined for relegation can be disastrous for a manager, not the case for a player.
Fulham is a much bigger club than Swansea and Brighton, I have showed why that is the case. Your gut disagrees, that’s fine. But the bet is there for you too... |
Not interested in your bet thanks. I perceive this to be an interesting discussion, not a competition, but I guess that is subjective too. Like I said it’s perception. Not many would perceive a managerial move from Swansea to a relegated Fulham in the same division as a step up, regardless of where your gut tells you Fulham will be in three to four years. It could be that Fulham is the right move for him and he gets them there, it’s a best guess and it is equally likely that he treads water there, or that if he does move on we luck out with another Martinez/Sousa/Rodgers and either get there too or get there ahead of them. Good decision making is only good in the event of a good outcome and there is certainly no guarantee of a Cooper led Fulham doing any better than us, solely based on historical league placings. Same would apply to Brighton in the same league. | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 11:13 - Jun 30 with 615 views | onehunglow |
| patrick vieira to palace on 10:46 - Jun 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
Both currently due to crippling financial issues.
Although Sunderland have a rich history of bouncing back. |
Well history isn't working for them and hasn't for some time now.
Sunderland attracts support from all over Co Durham
Why does that not apply to Swansea in the numbers that apply to Sunderland.
There is a choice up there but they stay loyal. | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 11:18 - Jun 30 with 608 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| patrick vieira to palace on 11:13 - Jun 30 by onehunglow |
Well history isn't working for them and hasn't for some time now.
Sunderland attracts support from all over Co Durham
Why does that not apply to Swansea in the numbers that apply to Sunderland.
There is a choice up there but they stay loyal. |
Sunderland and Portsmouths financial predicament was clear to all upon relegation, they had to rely on more than historical trend to help them. Any move to them upon relegation would have been a ridiculous one for any manager with any ambition.
But once they sort their finances they will naturally rise to the top again. There is a reason the likes of Bielsa went to Leeds in the Championship instead of a number of top jobs he could have got. Same can be said for Benitez when he decided to stay in the Championship when he could have got a Premier League job after managing Real Madrid a year or so prior.
Fulham are the favourites for the title for a reason. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 11:29]
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| patrick vieira to palace on 11:23 - Jun 30 with 598 views | onehunglow |
| patrick vieira to palace on 11:18 - Jun 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
Sunderland and Portsmouths financial predicament was clear to all upon relegation, they had to rely on more than historical trend to help them. Any move to them upon relegation would have been a ridiculous one for any manager with any ambition.
But once they sort their finances they will naturally rise to the top again. There is a reason the likes of Bielsa went to Leeds in the Championship instead of a number of top jobs he could have got. Same can be said for Benitez when he decided to stay in the Championship when he could have got a Premier League job after managing Real Madrid a year or so prior.
Fulham are the favourites for the title for a reason. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 11:29]
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That's a good riposte and I like that. Didn't really agree with it all but you avoid abuse which does you credit. I attack views not individuals unless they defame or chuck abuse my way.They will always get it back x3. They do not learn.
Sunderland still have huge isues. I have a soft spot for them,as I do for Newcastle but that is mainly because of north-east people. It s the only part of the Uk I would choose to live outside this blessed area of ours. Simply great people and beautiful as hell. | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 11:23 - Jun 30 with 603 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| patrick vieira to palace on 11:12 - Jun 30 by ItchySphincter |
Not interested in your bet thanks. I perceive this to be an interesting discussion, not a competition, but I guess that is subjective too. Like I said it’s perception. Not many would perceive a managerial move from Swansea to a relegated Fulham in the same division as a step up, regardless of where your gut tells you Fulham will be in three to four years. It could be that Fulham is the right move for him and he gets them there, it’s a best guess and it is equally likely that he treads water there, or that if he does move on we luck out with another Martinez/Sousa/Rodgers and either get there too or get there ahead of them. Good decision making is only good in the event of a good outcome and there is certainly no guarantee of a Cooper led Fulham doing any better than us, solely based on historical league placings. Same would apply to Brighton in the same league. |
Doesn’t have to be a competition, we can have an interesting discussion where a nice cause can benefit from it too. It can be a reason to follow and track the progress of the discussion to its completion, which is the real interesting part. Without the financial incentive I’m sure it will fizzle out and be forgotten.
I disagree, I think most would see a move from Swansea to Fulham now as a step up. One looks like finishing mid table, the other is a bigger club expected to be a Premier League club next year. It’s very clearly a step up.
Of course there is no guarantees, but the balance of probability suggests it is the better move. Just like Man City winning the league isn’t guaranteed, they may have a club virus and get relegated, the owner leaves and they storm down the leagues... but I’d still be taking that job over the Southampton one. | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 11:28 - Jun 30 with 601 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| patrick vieira to palace on 11:23 - Jun 30 by onehunglow |
That's a good riposte and I like that. Didn't really agree with it all but you avoid abuse which does you credit. I attack views not individuals unless they defame or chuck abuse my way.They will always get it back x3. They do not learn.
Sunderland still have huge isues. I have a soft spot for them,as I do for Newcastle but that is mainly because of north-east people. It s the only part of the Uk I would choose to live outside this blessed area of ours. Simply great people and beautiful as hell. |
Agree I would love to see Sunderland do well again, they seem a proper club.
They will though, it’s inevitable. Same as Leeds, the big clubs will always sort themselves from the pack in the end, which is why you can take a 100 year snap shot to look at the clubs history and the bigger ones will always be up in the top leagues more often than not - huge money investor clubs aside.
Big clubs can sustain themselves over time, more fans, more money, better players, better managers = better results. There will always be blips along the way and over achieving moments along the way (a period Brighton are likely in now), but eventually the natural order gets restored.
We found that out recently. | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 11:41 - Jun 30 with 597 views | ItchySphincter |
| patrick vieira to palace on 11:23 - Jun 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
Doesn’t have to be a competition, we can have an interesting discussion where a nice cause can benefit from it too. It can be a reason to follow and track the progress of the discussion to its completion, which is the real interesting part. Without the financial incentive I’m sure it will fizzle out and be forgotten.
I disagree, I think most would see a move from Swansea to Fulham now as a step up. One looks like finishing mid table, the other is a bigger club expected to be a Premier League club next year. It’s very clearly a step up.
Of course there is no guarantees, but the balance of probability suggests it is the better move. Just like Man City winning the league isn’t guaranteed, they may have a club virus and get relegated, the owner leaves and they storm down the leagues... but I’d still be taking that job over the Southampton one. |
You may well be right but before I veer to far from the point I was originally drawn to, depending on subjectivity and what metric you use, Fulham, Brighton and Swansea are generally perceived as similar size clubs. Is all I was saying really. I may be a little out of touch at the mo but I’m struggling to see a Cooper led Fulham as a particularly attractive proportion for promotion to the Premier League. I’m not saying Fulham haven’t got the potential but a Cooper Fulham? Not feeling it. They’d stand a better chance with a Howe, Lampard or even Refldnapp. | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 11:47 - Jun 30 with 588 views | KeithHaynes |
| patrick vieira to palace on 11:13 - Jun 30 by onehunglow |
Well history isn't working for them and hasn't for some time now.
Sunderland attracts support from all over Co Durham
Why does that not apply to Swansea in the numbers that apply to Sunderland.
There is a choice up there but they stay loyal. |
Swansea and west wales is much of the swans support. From experience there are hundreds if not thousands elsewhere.Even in the bottom league we were taking 50-60 to games from Gloucester | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 11:48 - Jun 30 with 586 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| patrick vieira to palace on 11:41 - Jun 30 by ItchySphincter |
You may well be right but before I veer to far from the point I was originally drawn to, depending on subjectivity and what metric you use, Fulham, Brighton and Swansea are generally perceived as similar size clubs. Is all I was saying really. I may be a little out of touch at the mo but I’m struggling to see a Cooper led Fulham as a particularly attractive proportion for promotion to the Premier League. I’m not saying Fulham haven’t got the potential but a Cooper Fulham? Not feeling it. They’d stand a better chance with a Howe, Lampard or even Refldnapp. |
Perceived by who? I don’t think Fulham are perceived to be of a similar size to Swansea or Brighton at all, I think they are quite obviously bigger. Both in fact and perception.
A Cooper Swansea finished 4th and 6th after a Potter Swansea led by McBurnie, James, Fer, VdH, Rodon et al got nowhere near so I’m sure a Cooper Fulham will do even better again.
There is a reason they are wanting him despite the fact they will obviously have to pay a premium. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 11:49]
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| patrick vieira to palace on 11:59 - Jun 30 with 577 views | ItchySphincter |
| patrick vieira to palace on 11:48 - Jun 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
Perceived by who? I don’t think Fulham are perceived to be of a similar size to Swansea or Brighton at all, I think they are quite obviously bigger. Both in fact and perception.
A Cooper Swansea finished 4th and 6th after a Potter Swansea led by McBurnie, James, Fer, VdH, Rodon et al got nowhere near so I’m sure a Cooper Fulham will do even better again.
There is a reason they are wanting him despite the fact they will obviously have to pay a premium. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 11:49]
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There are many defining factors. Swansea were reasonably well stabilised by Potter following relegation and we had no idea what he could have done in years two or three. Cooper didn’t have to deal with the full fallout of relegation, he also had access to the likes of Ayew and a Baston, which iirc Potter didn’t as the club were trying to shift them at the time. I see your reasoning but can’t reconcile it with Parker wanting to move from Fulham following relegation to a club similar in stature to Swansea and Fulham. Your logic makes that move incoherent, unless you see Bournemouth as a better promotion proposition, but didn’t you say Fulham were rightly favourites? | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 12:07 - Jun 30 with 565 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| patrick vieira to palace on 11:59 - Jun 30 by ItchySphincter |
There are many defining factors. Swansea were reasonably well stabilised by Potter following relegation and we had no idea what he could have done in years two or three. Cooper didn’t have to deal with the full fallout of relegation, he also had access to the likes of Ayew and a Baston, which iirc Potter didn’t as the club were trying to shift them at the time. I see your reasoning but can’t reconcile it with Parker wanting to move from Fulham following relegation to a club similar in stature to Swansea and Fulham. Your logic makes that move incoherent, unless you see Bournemouth as a better promotion proposition, but didn’t you say Fulham were rightly favourites? |
You think access to Baston is a positive? Lest year he scored 5 goals in 35 games in the Spanish second division.
Access to Ayew was obviously a big plus, but anyone would swap him in a heart beat for Daniel James, Leroy Fer, VdH, McBurnie etc it’s not the toughest job in the world to not a get a team like that relegated from the Championship.
Parker wanted to leave because there was a fairly decent club that was interested in him and he was on the verge, at a club where he wasn’t very well liked. I don’t believe he moved because Bournemouth was a bigger club, I think he moved because he still wanted a job. | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 12:07 - Jun 30 with 564 views | ItchySphincter |
….and again, forgot to add - Copper fits the current profile of desirable football manager. You’ve only got to have half an eye on the Euros to see the current style of pragmatism over style to be the current trend. Cooper will deliver this without any problems and may achieve success and the trend of not losing being the primary objective makes Cooper an attractive option. What is noticeable is that games in the Euros, playoffs, whatever, are still won by moments of pace and individuality, something Cooper is unable to deliver, regardless of what potential of of the club he is at has. | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 12:10 - Jun 30 with 560 views | ItchySphincter |
| patrick vieira to palace on 12:07 - Jun 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
You think access to Baston is a positive? Lest year he scored 5 goals in 35 games in the Spanish second division.
Access to Ayew was obviously a big plus, but anyone would swap him in a heart beat for Daniel James, Leroy Fer, VdH, McBurnie etc it’s not the toughest job in the world to not a get a team like that relegated from the Championship.
Parker wanted to leave because there was a fairly decent club that was interested in him and he was on the verge, at a club where he wasn’t very well liked. I don’t believe he moved because Bournemouth was a bigger club, I think he moved because he still wanted a job. |
I don’t disagree with any of that, and it demonstrates why different options make be considered better options at any given time. | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 12:11 - Jun 30 with 560 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| patrick vieira to palace on 12:07 - Jun 30 by ItchySphincter |
….and again, forgot to add - Copper fits the current profile of desirable football manager. You’ve only got to have half an eye on the Euros to see the current style of pragmatism over style to be the current trend. Cooper will deliver this without any problems and may achieve success and the trend of not losing being the primary objective makes Cooper an attractive option. What is noticeable is that games in the Euros, playoffs, whatever, are still won by moments of pace and individuality, something Cooper is unable to deliver, regardless of what potential of of the club he is at has. |
Of course, success will always be more desirable than anything else for club owners.
Cooper delivers results. | |
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| patrick vieira to palace on 12:13 - Jun 30 with 557 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| patrick vieira to palace on 12:10 - Jun 30 by ItchySphincter |
I don’t disagree with any of that, and it demonstrates why different options make be considered better options at any given time. |
Edit - I thought you said you disagree as opposed to saying you agree.
Not sure what we are debating then tbh. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 12:15]
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| patrick vieira to palace on 12:19 - Jun 30 with 549 views | Fireboy2 |
I'm certain this topic will get to 8 pages by the end of play today and will get to my prediction of 12 - 14 by tomorrow. |  | | |
| patrick vieira to palace on 12:27 - Jun 30 with 542 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| patrick vieira to palace on 11:48 - Jun 30 by Dr_Parnassus |
Perceived by who? I don’t think Fulham are perceived to be of a similar size to Swansea or Brighton at all, I think they are quite obviously bigger. Both in fact and perception.
A Cooper Swansea finished 4th and 6th after a Potter Swansea led by McBurnie, James, Fer, VdH, Rodon et al got nowhere near so I’m sure a Cooper Fulham will do even better again.
There is a reason they are wanting him despite the fact they will obviously have to pay a premium. [Post edited 30 Jun 2021 11:49]
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<< A Cooper Swansea finished 4th and 6th after a Potter Swansea led by McBurnie, James, Fer, VdH, Rodon et al got nowhere near so I’m sure a Cooper Fulham will do even better again. >>
££££££ | | | |
| patrick vieira to palace on 12:36 - Jun 30 with 532 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| patrick vieira to palace on 12:27 - Jun 30 by 34dfgdf54 |
<< A Cooper Swansea finished 4th and 6th after a Potter Swansea led by McBurnie, James, Fer, VdH, Rodon et al got nowhere near so I’m sure a Cooper Fulham will do even better again. >>
££££££ |
You seem to have been reduced to currency signs.
I suppose it’s difficult to make a mess of such a sim listing offering at least. Sensible from you. | |
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