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I might be less opposed to Indy if they didn't seem so keen on leaving the UK and joining the EU! Saying that, by the time Wales gets a vote on it we'll possibly know how the EU has panned out. Did it go fully federal or did it just disintegrate, or whatever else. If it reforms and goes down the trade bloc route with no political ambitions, I could vote to rejoin.
I'll repeat it though, lets have the debate and have a full fact disclosure. None of the ropey claims and lies put about by both sides during Brexit. Let Wales behave like grown ups and debate both sides amicably and not descend into the polarised arguments and name calling that divided the UK so.
Should wales be an independent country ? on 12:09 - Sep 2 by Catullus
I might be less opposed to Indy if they didn't seem so keen on leaving the UK and joining the EU! Saying that, by the time Wales gets a vote on it we'll possibly know how the EU has panned out. Did it go fully federal or did it just disintegrate, or whatever else. If it reforms and goes down the trade bloc route with no political ambitions, I could vote to rejoin.
I'll repeat it though, lets have the debate and have a full fact disclosure. None of the ropey claims and lies put about by both sides during Brexit. Let Wales behave like grown ups and debate both sides amicably and not descend into the polarised arguments and name calling that divided the UK so.
I won't hold my breath.
Any Welsh vote would only need the Welsh Parliament to call it.
Wales never agreed to join any union, unlike Scotland.
Beware of the Risen People
0
Should wales be an independent country ? on 20:20 - Sep 2 with 4325 views
Should wales be an independent country ? on 19:36 - Sep 2 by Kilkennyjack
Any Welsh vote would only need the Welsh Parliament to call it.
Wales never agreed to join any union, unlike Scotland.
You keep saying stuff like that and it's just not true. Constitutionally we need Westminster to approve an Independence vote. Legally speaking Wales is part of England.
Look up the Statute of Rhuddlan 1284 and the Laws in Wales act 1535.
Should wales be an independent country ? on 20:20 - Sep 2 by Catullus
You keep saying stuff like that and it's just not true. Constitutionally we need Westminster to approve an Independence vote. Legally speaking Wales is part of England.
Look up the Statute of Rhuddlan 1284 and the Laws in Wales act 1535.
The principle of self-determination is prominently embodied in Article I of the Charter of the United Nations.
Earlier it was explicitly embraced by US President Woodrow Wilson, by Lenin and others, and became the guiding principle for the reconstruction of Europe following World War I. The principle was incorporated into the 1941 Atlantic Charter and the Dumbarton Oaks proposals which evolved into the United Nations Charter. Its inclusion in the UN Charter marks the universal recognition of the principle as fundamental to the maintenance of friendly relations and peace among states. It is recognized as a right of all peoples in the first article common to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights which both entered into force in 1976. 1 Paragraph 1 of this Article provides:
All peoples have the right to self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.
If an aggressive nation (Say England) wages war on another nation (say Wales), and then creates Laws to enforce the will of the victors on another nation ...then its not legitimate. Its bad law.
I trust the people of modern wales to create IndyWales. You hide behind bad Laws from fecking 1284 and 1535.
Wales is not in a prison. Welsh people will decide the future of Wales, nobody else.
Annibyniaeth. ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿
Beware of the Risen People
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Should wales be an independent country ? on 08:34 - Sep 3 with 4228 views
‘There was also strong support for independence among younger voters, with 43% of those in the 18-24 year old category backing independence, and 42% of those in the 25-49 year old category saying that they would vote yes.’
Thats without a campaign.
This becoming a nailed on certainty, modern European democracy vs Western England and the Tory wet dream. Let me think ..
Annibyniaeth ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿.
Beware of the Risen People
-1
Should wales be an independent country ? on 11:17 - Sep 3 with 4165 views
Should wales be an independent country ? on 11:02 - Sep 3 by Kilkennyjack
Poll on 03/09 saying about Wales ....
‘There was also strong support for independence among younger voters, with 43% of those in the 18-24 year old category backing independence, and 42% of those in the 25-49 year old category saying that they would vote yes.’
Thats without a campaign.
This becoming a nailed on certainty, modern European democracy vs Western England and the Tory wet dream. Let me think ..
Annibyniaeth ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿.
Can you provide a link to that poll? Who did it, how many were asked, what exactly were the questions?
When you talk about self determination you always ignore that Wales already has it. We elect MP's to Westminster, we elect AM's to our own Parliament and of course, despite every poll you pull out and cherry pick from, the majority of the Welsh poulation still wants to remain in the union. Those young people you so rely on, as the years pass they might change their minds, it does happen. I was very pro indy as a youngster as was most of my friends but none of us are in favour anymore. Nobody knows what the future will bring, it might be indy, or not.
Question, if the EU should collapse, would you still want indy?
Should wales be an independent country ? on 10:44 - Sep 3 by NotLoyal
Doesn’t exist ... allegedly 😉
I was thinking of a united Ireland in the EU myself ... 👌
‘The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and of all its parts, cherishing all the children of the nation equally, and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien Government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.’
I think that will still do the job 💚
Beware of the Risen People
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Should wales be an independent country ? on 11:20 - Sep 3 with 4163 views
Should wales be an independent country ? on 10:58 - Sep 3 by Best_loser
Well who better to ask a question about N Ireland
Thank you for your answer
Ok, let’s go deeper. My belief is a United ireland is the promised land for many, the issues are the religious divide and where it would be governed from. That in itself would cause immediate division, primarily between the predominantly catholic south and the catholics from the north. I know that those here that support a United Ireland in the north would not want total governance from Dublin alone. There would be many difference of opinions that due to the Demographic of the country over the past 100 years at least would reflect Dublin as not understanding the North’s specific issues. Not many can argue with that. Then you have the old guard unionists, who still influence certain young people in the north who would potentially call to arms the old school thinking in response to any change. This in turn would would also see the return of a response from the equally as entrenched republicans, this is the bigger picture people don’t see. In Scotland and Wales there is no deep feeling of resentment caused by years of deaths, murders and reliance upon a history so skewed it references battles from 400 and 500 years before they were born. Entrenched is the key word, skewed is the other word that people have placed on history to support their agenda. A United ireland would create a return to the bad old days of 1968, so many lives would be lost it isn’t worth the change. The loss of life would kill any hope of stopping years of hate. This beautiful country doesn’t need that, it has and continues to attempt to keep the lid on the fairly new peace accord and time is a great healer. It’s the new, young and equality seeking Irish people who need their generations to carry on the peace and stop the hate of the dinosaurs. As I said this will take time, it needs time, if change doesn’t happen in one persons lifetime it doesn’t mean it’s failed, it means it needs time. Time to dilute the divisive opinions of old so a new chapter can be formed. It’s happening, and a United ireland may never be the outcome, but a more peaceful and tranquil Ireland should be seen as a form of success. For now.
Should wales be an independent country ? on 11:20 - Sep 3 by NotLoyal
Ok, let’s go deeper. My belief is a United ireland is the promised land for many, the issues are the religious divide and where it would be governed from. That in itself would cause immediate division, primarily between the predominantly catholic south and the catholics from the north. I know that those here that support a United Ireland in the north would not want total governance from Dublin alone. There would be many difference of opinions that due to the Demographic of the country over the past 100 years at least would reflect Dublin as not understanding the North’s specific issues. Not many can argue with that. Then you have the old guard unionists, who still influence certain young people in the north who would potentially call to arms the old school thinking in response to any change. This in turn would would also see the return of a response from the equally as entrenched republicans, this is the bigger picture people don’t see. In Scotland and Wales there is no deep feeling of resentment caused by years of deaths, murders and reliance upon a history so skewed it references battles from 400 and 500 years before they were born. Entrenched is the key word, skewed is the other word that people have placed on history to support their agenda. A United ireland would create a return to the bad old days of 1968, so many lives would be lost it isn’t worth the change. The loss of life would kill any hope of stopping years of hate. This beautiful country doesn’t need that, it has and continues to attempt to keep the lid on the fairly new peace accord and time is a great healer. It’s the new, young and equality seeking Irish people who need their generations to carry on the peace and stop the hate of the dinosaurs. As I said this will take time, it needs time, if change doesn’t happen in one persons lifetime it doesn’t mean it’s failed, it means it needs time. Time to dilute the divisive opinions of old so a new chapter can be formed. It’s happening, and a United ireland may never be the outcome, but a more peaceful and tranquil Ireland should be seen as a form of success. For now.
That's how I see it, a United Ireland is out of the question, not worth causing a return to violence
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Should wales be an independent country ? on 11:32 - Sep 3 with 4154 views
Should wales be an independent country ? on 11:20 - Sep 3 by NotLoyal
Ok, let’s go deeper. My belief is a United ireland is the promised land for many, the issues are the religious divide and where it would be governed from. That in itself would cause immediate division, primarily between the predominantly catholic south and the catholics from the north. I know that those here that support a United Ireland in the north would not want total governance from Dublin alone. There would be many difference of opinions that due to the Demographic of the country over the past 100 years at least would reflect Dublin as not understanding the North’s specific issues. Not many can argue with that. Then you have the old guard unionists, who still influence certain young people in the north who would potentially call to arms the old school thinking in response to any change. This in turn would would also see the return of a response from the equally as entrenched republicans, this is the bigger picture people don’t see. In Scotland and Wales there is no deep feeling of resentment caused by years of deaths, murders and reliance upon a history so skewed it references battles from 400 and 500 years before they were born. Entrenched is the key word, skewed is the other word that people have placed on history to support their agenda. A United ireland would create a return to the bad old days of 1968, so many lives would be lost it isn’t worth the change. The loss of life would kill any hope of stopping years of hate. This beautiful country doesn’t need that, it has and continues to attempt to keep the lid on the fairly new peace accord and time is a great healer. It’s the new, young and equality seeking Irish people who need their generations to carry on the peace and stop the hate of the dinosaurs. As I said this will take time, it needs time, if change doesn’t happen in one persons lifetime it doesn’t mean it’s failed, it means it needs time. Time to dilute the divisive opinions of old so a new chapter can be formed. It’s happening, and a United ireland may never be the outcome, but a more peaceful and tranquil Ireland should be seen as a form of success. For now.
An excellent post.
ðŸ‘ðŸ‘
Beware of the Risen People
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Should wales be an independent country ? on 11:38 - Sep 3 with 4144 views
Should wales be an independent country ? on 11:38 - Sep 3 by Kilkennyjack
Its not out of the question when a majority on the island of Ireland would want exactly that. There may well need to be agreed steps.
As Michael Collins said in the 1920s ...
“In my opinion it gives us freedom, not the ultimate freedom that all nations desire … but the freedom to achieve it.”
A hundred years later the country has learned that taking up arms is not the way, may well have been relevant then to an extent, but not now. Too much to lose.
Should wales be an independent country ? on 16:20 - Sep 3 by Catullus
Kilk, are you not going to provide any evidence for that poll?
Think the poll was either done by yes cymru or plaid cant remember which, 1000 odd the numbers was, I remember reading 45% of labour voters in Wales also support independence, also I can say from personal experience of 2 nephews and nieces that the younger generation is very very pro indy and that will only grow. To me it's quite simple, I'd rather be independent than run by england simple as. As for the anti democratic abolish the welsh assembly party I cant wait for them to get wiped off the face of the earth at the next assembly election next year. Hate the anti welsh b***rds Annibyniaeth ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ Tiocfaidh ár lá 🇮🇪
Should wales be an independent country ? on 16:52 - Sep 3 by CwmafanJack
Think the poll was either done by yes cymru or plaid cant remember which, 1000 odd the numbers was, I remember reading 45% of labour voters in Wales also support independence, also I can say from personal experience of 2 nephews and nieces that the younger generation is very very pro indy and that will only grow. To me it's quite simple, I'd rather be independent than run by england simple as. As for the anti democratic abolish the welsh assembly party I cant wait for them to get wiped off the face of the earth at the next assembly election next year. Hate the anti welsh b***rds Annibyniaeth ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ Tiocfaidh ár lá 🇮🇪
Diolch comrade.
Fe godwn ni eto ... ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿â¤ï¸
Beware of the Risen People
0
Should wales be an independent country ? on 17:38 - Sep 3 with 4066 views
Should wales be an independent country ? on 16:20 - Sep 3 by Catullus
Kilk, are you not going to provide any evidence for that poll?
“Over twice as many people trust the Welsh Parliament to look after the interests of Wales as trust Westminster, according to a new YouGov poll... 65% trust the Senedd to look after the interests of the people of Wales but only 28% trust the UK Parliament” https://t.co/TGkYxSBEka
Should wales be an independent country ? on 17:32 - Sep 3 by Kilkennyjack
Diolch comrade.
Fe godwn ni eto ... ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿â¤ï¸
Your just down the road from me, living in ballyroan just outside portlaoise atm, be good to meet up for a match or two when the seasons up and running again. Is there many jacks out this way?
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