| The Nasty Party on 11:40 - Apr 24 with 1345 views | Highjack |
| The Nasty Party on 11:32 - Apr 24 by WarwickHunt |
He wasn't in charge of "policy" - Corbyn, Milne and McCluskey were.
I use the word policy loosely, very loosely. |
You’re probably right but then why did Sir Keir put up with that shite? |  |
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| The Nasty Party on 12:04 - Apr 24 with 1329 views | WarwickHunt |
| The Nasty Party on 11:40 - Apr 24 by Highjack |
You’re probably right but then why did Sir Keir put up with that shite? |
Smart bloke, playing a long game. |  | | |
| The Nasty Party on 13:13 - Apr 24 with 1276 views | Ace_Jack |
| The Nasty Party on 10:57 - Apr 24 by Highjack |
In 2017 labour promised to go ahead with brexit. For the next two years they refused to take a solid position suggesting their strategy was to “keep all options on the table”. In 2019 they said they’d negotiate a new deal, then campaign against it in a referendum, effectively becoming a remain party. Do you think this contributed to a loss of votes from 2017? Especially in areas where Farage’s lot got 15%+ of the vote?
This was with Sir Keir in charge of brexit policy too, allegedly. |
Of the 56 seats Labour lost to the Tories in the 2019 General Election, the Tories increased their vote share in 55 of them in 2017. The seeds of the 2019 defeat were sewn well before the so called Brexit pivot. The question should be asked was why were these voters already leaving in 2017? Lets not forget that Labour were polling behind the Lib Dems before the pivot and were completely flattened in the EU elections.
The main factor Labour lost was Corbyn as all the data suggests. Likewise, Labours awful position on Brexit came about because of Corbyns inability to pick a side. As we saw in the actual campaign, leavers saw us as remainers, and remainers as leavers.
A majority of Labour voters voted to remain in 2016. Thats a fact. The "majority of Labour seats voting for Brexit" is bollocks because:
1) seats were counted in counties, thus skewing results with some seats being more leave than remain in those counties getting painted with the same brush. Swansea as a county is a good example of this actually.
2) Non labour voters in Labour held seats tipping balance to turn a "Labour" seat into a "leave" seat.
The figures show that Labour took its biggest hit in 2017 Labour voters who stayed home or defected to pro EU parties. Labour voters switched much less to the Tories or Brexit Party. Labour 2017 voters who did not vote Labour cite the leadership as their biggest reason to not vote Labour.
IMO the Labour party was foolish to chase two sets of voters who could not be reconcilled. We wuldve been better off chasing the larger pile of votes, ie remainers and taking the hit in the hardest Brexit seats, which is what happened anyway. We lost a fair few seats to the conservatives where the majority is less than the increased Green or Lib Dem vote increase.
And no, this wasn't Sir Keirs Brexit policy, nor was it policy that the party would be campaigning against its own deal. The policy fudge that was passed in September 2019 conference was Corbyn's preferred Brexit policy. If anyone can be botheres to look up the vote, it also passed with a suspicious count, with Jennie Formby leaning on the conference chair to declare favorably. The explicitly pro european stance was rejected by that conference because it was deemed as a direct attack on Corbyn. |  | | |
| The Nasty Party on 13:14 - Apr 24 with 1273 views | Ace_Jack |
| The Nasty Party on 11:40 - Apr 24 by Highjack |
You’re probably right but then why did Sir Keir put up with that shite? |
So he could become leader? | | | |
| The Nasty Party on 13:23 - Apr 24 with 1257 views | Ebo |
| The Nasty Party on 20:39 - Apr 23 by Catullus |
That dossier, the one that was compiled by Corbyn supporters you mean? Those same Corbynistas who probably leaked the dossier that says senior figures worked against Corbyn.
It's not like Labour candidates were having doorstep converstaions and being told 'we can't/won't vote for Jeremy'
Momentum don't want to let go and if they don't it could cripple Labour for years. Starmer has even said it could keep Labour out of power for a generation unless they unite.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/22/keir-starmer-warns-labour-to-un |
The irony eh? He wants to unite yet has people working for him who sabotaged a campaign.
Starmer needs to kick out the trouble makers named in the dossier.
It has also come to light that an Israeli source donated to his campaign to become leader.
Labour is one big mess and is about to get messier. |  |
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| The Nasty Party on 13:26 - Apr 24 with 1251 views | Ebo |
| The Nasty Party on 12:04 - Apr 24 by WarwickHunt |
Smart bloke, playing a long game. |
It will be a very very long one then because he is dull as dishwater. | |
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| The Nasty Party on 13:29 - Apr 24 with 1247 views | Ebo |
| The Nasty Party on 19:43 - Apr 23 by exiledclaseboy |
History tells us otherwise. What post-war history has consistently proved is that people won’t vote for the kind of divisive, hate-fuelled and destructive leftism espoused by you and Corbyn. |
Hate fuelled? Tell me or quote me where Corbyn has come out with hateful comments? I certainly cannot find one.
The last GE was an idiot test and the idiots won. | |
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| The Nasty Party on 13:36 - Apr 24 with 1239 views | Catullus |
| The Nasty Party on 13:23 - Apr 24 by Ebo |
The irony eh? He wants to unite yet has people working for him who sabotaged a campaign.
Starmer needs to kick out the trouble makers named in the dossier.
It has also come to light that an Israeli source donated to his campaign to become leader.
Labour is one big mess and is about to get messier. |
Would not the people who compiled and leaked that dossier be considered troublemakers too?
If the dossier compilers are Corbyn supporters would that dossier not be onsidered biased?
Starmer doesn't want to kick people out ( I don't think ) but he wants them all to step into line, accept party policy and work together. It might not be how others (including myself) would do it but he's in charge. |  |
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| The Nasty Party on 13:39 - Apr 24 with 1235 views | Ace_Jack |
| The Nasty Party on 13:29 - Apr 24 by Ebo |
Hate fuelled? Tell me or quote me where Corbyn has come out with hateful comments? I certainly cannot find one.
The last GE was an idiot test and the idiots won. |
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| The Nasty Party on 13:40 - Apr 24 with 1232 views | Ace_Jack |
| The Nasty Party on 13:23 - Apr 24 by Ebo |
The irony eh? He wants to unite yet has people working for him who sabotaged a campaign.
Starmer needs to kick out the trouble makers named in the dossier.
It has also come to light that an Israeli source donated to his campaign to become leader.
Labour is one big mess and is about to get messier. |
someone who is Israeli donated to his leadership campaign? He's clearly been bought by "the lobby" *taps nose* | | | |
| The Nasty Party on 13:41 - Apr 24 with 1228 views | Ace_Jack |
| The Nasty Party on 13:29 - Apr 24 by Ebo |
Hate fuelled? Tell me or quote me where Corbyn has come out with hateful comments? I certainly cannot find one.
The last GE was an idiot test and the idiots won. |
get used to it because it's going to be at least 20 years before the hard left even get close to the leadership again. | | | |
| The Nasty Party on 13:42 - Apr 24 with 1228 views | Catullus |
| The Nasty Party on 13:29 - Apr 24 by Ebo |
Hate fuelled? Tell me or quote me where Corbyn has come out with hateful comments? I certainly cannot find one.
The last GE was an idiot test and the idiots won. |
So anyone who didn't choose Corbyn was an idiot?
Nothing hateful there then.
PS, it wouldn't matter what evidence was provided about Corbyn because you never accept it anyway. You don't believe anything bad about him. | |
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| The Nasty Party on 13:52 - Apr 24 with 1224 views | WarwickHunt |
| The Nasty Party on 13:26 - Apr 24 by Ebo |
It will be a very very long one then because he is dull as dishwater. |
Competence will be the new rock ‘n’ roll post Brexit, Covid and recession.
Are you saying he doesn’t exude the charisma that made Jezza such a popular, trusted and much-loved politician? 😂 | | | |
| The Nasty Party on 13:58 - Apr 24 with 1213 views | Darran |
| The Nasty Party on 13:42 - Apr 24 by Catullus |
So anyone who didn't choose Corbyn was an idiot?
Nothing hateful there then.
PS, it wouldn't matter what evidence was provided about Corbyn because you never accept it anyway. You don't believe anything bad about him. |
“Nothing hateful there then”
Give up Acey,the things he’s said over the last couple of years are horrendous. I’ve tried to tell because when I’ve met him and spoken to him in private he’s been a thoroughly decent chap.
Give him a keyboard and he’s a shocker though. |  |
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| The Nasty Party on 13:59 - Apr 24 with 1211 views | Catullus |
| The Nasty Party on 13:26 - Apr 24 by Ebo |
It will be a very very long one then because he is dull as dishwater. |
He can be the most boring chunt alive but if he's good at the job then nobody will care. It's a sad truism though that style and charm can win an election which could put a totally unsuitable person into No10. Maybe after all the unsuitable numptys we've been having people will start looking at the substance a bit more. | |
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| The Nasty Party on 14:01 - Apr 24 with 1206 views | Highjack |
| The Nasty Party on 13:52 - Apr 24 by WarwickHunt |
Competence will be the new rock ‘n’ roll post Brexit, Covid and recession.
Are you saying he doesn’t exude the charisma that made Jezza such a popular, trusted and much-loved politician? 😂 |
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| The Nasty Party on 14:09 - Apr 24 with 1193 views | Catullus |
| The Nasty Party on 13:58 - Apr 24 by Darran |
“Nothing hateful there then”
Give up Acey,the things he’s said over the last couple of years are horrendous. I’ve tried to tell because when I’ve met him and spoken to him in private he’s been a thoroughly decent chap.
Give him a keyboard and he’s a shocker though. |
Acey? Am I in disguise now or have you lost your glasses? | |
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| The Nasty Party on 14:09 - Apr 24 with 1193 views | Lohengrin |
| The Nasty Party on 13:52 - Apr 24 by WarwickHunt |
Competence will be the new rock ‘n’ roll post Brexit, Covid and recession.
Are you saying he doesn’t exude the charisma that made Jezza such a popular, trusted and much-loved politician? 😂 |
” Competence will be the new rock ‘n’ roll post Brexit, Covid and recession.”
You’d love to think so, mate. There must be a lot of people now with a deep need to believe that.
Trouble is the Parliamentary system itself is the living negation. Cast an eye around the Cabinet and over some of the comedy appointments Starmer has made to the Shadow Cabinet and ‘competence’ is about the last collective characteristic that could be ascribed. |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| The Nasty Party on 14:20 - Apr 24 with 1186 views | Darran |
| The Nasty Party on 14:09 - Apr 24 by Catullus |
Acey? Am I in disguise now or have you lost your glasses? |
Sorry. 😂😂😂 | |
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| The Nasty Party on 15:26 - Apr 24 with 1157 views | ItchySphincter |
| The Nasty Party on 16:33 - Apr 23 by Highjack |
He might have done better than his brother but it’s unlikely he would have won. What would David Milliband have offered to deny the snp surge in Scotland for example which lost labour 25+ seats? What would he have offered to have held on to the many regular labour voters who contributed to the 4million+ votes UKIP received?
He might have been a far smoother operator but he would have likely faced electoral oblivion just because of the situation at the time. Labour are dead in Scotland. They’ve lost the faith of lots of people in their traditional areas. How are they going to get that back? A complete culture change.
One man, one leader can’t do it. Hell it probably isn’t even about policy anymore. They’ve spent the last God knows how long attacking their own supporters in their own heartlands. They’re filled with individuals who seem to absolutely hate Britain and it’s history. They’re so focused on championing minorities (not a bad thing but they go waaayyy over the top) they’ve completely forsaken the needs of those families who have supported them for generations.
It’s not about left or right, it’s not about socialism or capitalism or the NHS or personality or leadership. It’s completely obvious to anyone with a brain that the disconnect between the Labour Party and everyone who should be voting for them has never been bigger. |
Brexit brought independence back in to focus so the SNP surged off the back of that. The rise of the SNP has hurt labour, possibly beyond repair, but Scotland didn’t vote SNP because of Labour, they voted because they didn’t agree with Brexit. Brexit and Brexiteers maimed the Labour Party and are the reason we’ve been saddled with the likes of Johnson for a generation. The two are in inextricably linked. |  |
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| The Nasty Party on 15:54 - Apr 24 with 1148 views | Catullus |
| The Nasty Party on 15:26 - Apr 24 by ItchySphincter |
Brexit brought independence back in to focus so the SNP surged off the back of that. The rise of the SNP has hurt labour, possibly beyond repair, but Scotland didn’t vote SNP because of Labour, they voted because they didn’t agree with Brexit. Brexit and Brexiteers maimed the Labour Party and are the reason we’ve been saddled with the likes of Johnson for a generation. The two are in inextricably linked. |
Scotland had chosen the SNP long before Brexit reared its head. They took minority power is 2007 but won a majority in 2011.
Trying to say Brexit brought the SNP to power is ignoring the timeline. They are now saying that Covid-19 has put indepepndence on the back burner. Some commentators think Covid is a good argument against an Indy Scotland, I'm not so sure.
Imagine an indy Scotland and Wales that had acted swiftly, closed the borders with England, gone into lockdown early, stopped flights, started testing sooner. It's an unlikely scenario here because the Senedd aren't exactly sharp but it's a possibility I guess. The worse the final outcome of this pandemic in the UK the more some indy supporters might claim that unlikely scenario as a probability. | |
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| The Nasty Party on 16:08 - Apr 24 with 1140 views | Highjack |
| The Nasty Party on 15:26 - Apr 24 by ItchySphincter |
Brexit brought independence back in to focus so the SNP surged off the back of that. The rise of the SNP has hurt labour, possibly beyond repair, but Scotland didn’t vote SNP because of Labour, they voted because they didn’t agree with Brexit. Brexit and Brexiteers maimed the Labour Party and are the reason we’ve been saddled with the likes of Johnson for a generation. The two are in inextricably linked. |
It’s four general elections in a row they’ve ultimately failed. They had a good vote share in 2017 but in terms of seats they were pretty much at the same level as Brown managed in 2010. Also the surge of the SNP in 2015 was a full year before the brexit referendum.
All this in the midst of a succession of the worst, most incompetent, most inefficient and most disorganised conservative governments (Aided and abetted by the Lib Dem’s for half a decade) in history.
The malaise had descended long before brexit or Corbyn had even appeared on the horizon. | |
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| The Nasty Party on 16:12 - Apr 24 with 1137 views | Ace_Jack |
| The Nasty Party on 14:09 - Apr 24 by Catullus |
Acey? Am I in disguise now or have you lost your glasses? |
hes got ace on the brain | | | |
| The Nasty Party on 16:59 - Apr 24 with 1119 views | Catullus |
| The Nasty Party on 16:12 - Apr 24 by Ace_Jack |
hes got ace on the brain |
More memorable than me see pal  | |
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